How many have a kid who turned down an Ivy or Ivies to attend another school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Turned down Yale for Williams. It was a hard decision - mostly because she felt like she *should* pick Yale (she was one of 3 kids who got in from her high school that year), but she fell in love with Williams and has thrived there. Doing study abroad next year and is already sad she will miss a year in Williamstown.

Williams is awesome. But only the uninformed, myopically-minded (and arguably unintelligent) would blink twice at such a choice. When it comes to undergraduate education, Williams is every bit the equal of (and arguably superior to) Yale. I also suspect that places like Williams enroll far fewer Jared Kushners (i.e. academically incurious, below standard matriculations who buy their way in).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This question is way too vague. Turned down Cornell for MIT? Of course. Turned down Yale for Alabama, even with a free ride, super rare. Both Ivy and non-Ivys are completely non-homogenous categories. Hearing that someone turned down Brown for Caltech won't make you feel better about forcing your kid to turn down Harvard for an in-state price tag.

Exactly this. So many people in this thread (on this site and, unfortunately, in the world) who have no sense of nuance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Pomona over Penn and Dartmouth. All great schools, but Pomona was the best fit. No regrets a year later.

In California in the 90's, I had many friends who chose Cal and UCLA over Ivies. I also had friends who chose UC Davis and UCSB over Cal and UCLA. Cost, fit, and location are important to a lot of folks. If I still lived in California, I probably would have urged my kid toward a UC on the basis of value. I'm still a West Coaster at heart where I think "prestige" is less valued than it is on the East Coast. (Maybe this has changed?)

California is one of the very few states whose best public schools offer an education on par with that of the country's most selective schools (and, as the well-informed know, no one with a hardcore interest in majoring in engineering or computer science chooses Harvard over Cal). While no school is perfect, Cal and UCLA offer an enviable balance in that they attract some of the brightest, most intellectually curious undergraduates while enrolling and graduating a fairly economically diverse student body.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:The football recruit for Stanford goes 100% for free even if you make millions per year…100% of all Power 4 football recruits receive 100% scholarships (and if they were poor they would also go for free because they are as generous all Ivies for need aid).

So…let’s leave Ivy and Patriot schools out of the conversation because the economics of attending college and the ability to compete at a high level at a Power 4 school in football (not to mention having sold out stadiums and national TV coverage) will outweigh everything else.

You are way overrating how many Power 4 teams sell out their stadiums, especially at those schools with the best academic reputations.
https://www.d1ticker.com/2024-fbs-attendance-trends/

NIL is also hardly a pot of gold for the vast majority of athletes, even the Power 4 football players.
https://nilassist.ncaa.org/data-dashboard/

Except now the Power 4 schools are just paying athletes direct in addition to NIL.

$22MM of which they say 75% will go to football, so $16.5MM spread across 105 players or $157k per player on average per year.

The QB, skill positions and starters will probably get more…but it’s still probably a minimum of $30-$40k per rostered player per year (plus free total cost to attend).

The real question is, how much is all of this worth when the student acquires CTE 5 years after graduation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mine did this year. I've decided that it's something my son can silently be proud of. Both the Ivy admission and the fact that they did what is right for them and didn't just follow the name.

Mine turned down Columbia for U Chicago.

Yeah, apples to apples. Chicago is one of the most intellectually rigorous schools in the U.S. and arguably superior to Columbia. The val of the public high school in the next town over chose Chicago over Harvard and Yale the year we graduated from high school, and no one thought this was odd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pomona over Penn and Dartmouth. All great schools, but Pomona was the best fit. No regrets a year later.

In California in the 90's, I had many friends who chose Cal and UCLA over Ivies. I also had friends who chose UC Davis and UCSB over Cal and UCLA. Cost, fit, and location are important to a lot of folks. If I still lived in California, I probably would have urged my kid toward a UC on the basis of value. I'm still a West Coaster at heart where I think "prestige" is less valued than it is on the East Coast. (Maybe this has changed?)

California is one of the very few states whose best public schools offer an education on par with that of the country's most selective schools (and, as the well-informed know, no one with a hardcore interest in majoring in engineering or computer science chooses Harvard over Cal). While no school is perfect, Cal and UCLA offer an enviable balance in that they attract some of the brightest, most intellectually curious undergraduates while enrolling and graduating a fairly economically diverse student body.

Agree that Cal and UCLA attract some of the brightest kids but nobody chooses Cal over Harvard for any subject. (Except for financial reasons.) The kids in EECS at Cal mostly come from high-pressure families who are obsessed with HYPSM.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:At our school in Texas, 3 kids turned down Ivies for UK schools: Oxford, St Andrews and Cambridge.

Turning down an ivy for st Andrews is a bit surprising.
We know someone who turned down Harvard, Columbia, and Princeton to go to Rutgers.

So that is not surprising? As a parent of a kid at St Andrews and one at Dartmouth I can tell you my kids t St Andrews turned down Brown for St Andrews and several of her friends made similar choices depending on their major. Stop generalizing everything.

Going to an American rich kid party school that is essentially just the English version of Tulane over an ivy is surprising. St Andrews is nowhere near the level of Oxbridge.

DP. St Andrews is not a rich kids party school.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Not all Power 4 schools are created equal. Some are worth attending for free (vs. Harvard), others not so much.

Well…it depends on how good a football player you are because if you are NFL material then nobody gives a f**k how good the school is academically, yes?

Just so happens if you are smart enough to get recruited for football to Harvard (which can still be scores hundreds less than the average Harvard student)…and you are great at football…then guess what, you are smart enough for Duke, Stanford, Vandy, Michigan, ND, etc.

So…logic would dictate that a 5 star 1400 SAT kid might go to say Alabama because they have the potential to go Pro or pick Michigan or ND…while the 3 star 1400 SAT kid will go to Duke or Stanford…and one star 1400 kid may go to Harvard.

Under 10 percent of Power 4 players are NFL material. Your chances are certainly higher from Alabama/Michigan, but still the odds are heavily against it.

The more important point here is that the "5 star 1400 SAT kid" is a unicorn. There are only like 30 five-star recruits in any given year. In the past decade, I'd be surprised if more than one or two of them had a 1400 SAT score, if any.

None of which you say supports any choosing Harvard over equally elite Power 4 schools that are 100% free…hence the reference to 3 star recruits who are still much better players than the Harvard recruits who are one star at best.

Stanford, Duke, Vandy, Michigan and Notre Dame all have plenty of sub-1400 SAT players.

It’s generally absurd to even think any kid able to play at these types of schools are even considering Harvard at all

You're shifting the goalposts. This all started as Alabama vs. Harvard. I'm the one who first brought up Stanford, and agree 100% that any football player with the choice should be going there instead of Harvard.

Duke and Vanderbilt is a closer call, but I'd pick them over Harvard too for most.

Michigan and ND is where it becomes 50/50 for me. Depending on your background/interests, either option seems fine.

No chance would I pick Alabama though, unless you were a five-star recruit. Even four-star recruits are facing uphill battles to make enough NIL over four years (or NFL money) to outweigh the financial advantage over 40 years of attending Harvard. Don't forget, Harvard is tuition-free for families making under $200K and completely free for those making under $100K.

There is no Big 12 school I'd pick over Harvard, even as a 5-star recruit.

This is really stupid and you know it. Harvard has never had a 5 star recruit ever. I guarantee you that in the history of football recruiting there have been some with the stats to get into Harvard as a football recruit…but never even remotely considered it.

I doubt they have even landed a single 3 star recruit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At our school in Texas, 3 kids turned down Ivies for UK schools: Oxford, St Andrews and Cambridge.

Turning down an ivy for st Andrews is a bit surprising.
We know someone who turned down Harvard, Columbia, and Princeton to go to Rutgers.

So that is not surprising? As a parent of a kid at St Andrews and one at Dartmouth I can tell you my kids t St Andrews turned down Brown for St Andrews and several of her friends made similar choices depending on their major. Stop generalizing everything.

Going to an American rich kid party school that is essentially just the English version of Tulane over an ivy is surprising. St Andrews is nowhere near the level of Oxbridge.

DP. St Andrews is not a rich kids party school.

There was a recent article describing it exactly as such. 20% of the school are Americans coming from US prep schools and boarding schools. Kids that don’t get into an “elite enough” US school (and a small number going for lower tuition). Creating a party scene.

Was in the Sunday Times in March 2025.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Not all Power 4 schools are created equal. Some are worth attending for free (vs. Harvard), others not so much.

Well…it depends on how good a football player you are because if you are NFL material then nobody gives a f**k how good the school is academically, yes?

Just so happens if you are smart enough to get recruited for football to Harvard (which can still be scores hundreds less than the average Harvard student)…and you are great at football…then guess what, you are smart enough for Duke, Stanford, Vandy, Michigan, ND, etc.

So…logic would dictate that a 5 star 1400 SAT kid might go to say Alabama because they have the potential to go Pro or pick Michigan or ND…while the 3 star 1400 SAT kid will go to Duke or Stanford…and one star 1400 kid may go to Harvard.

Under 10 percent of Power 4 players are NFL material. Your chances are certainly higher from Alabama/Michigan, but still the odds are heavily against it.

The more important point here is that the "5 star 1400 SAT kid" is a unicorn. There are only like 30 five-star recruits in any given year. In the past decade, I'd be surprised if more than one or two of them had a 1400 SAT score, if any.

None of which you say supports any choosing Harvard over equally elite Power 4 schools that are 100% free…hence the reference to 3 star recruits who are still much better players than the Harvard recruits who are one star at best.

Stanford, Duke, Vandy, Michigan and Notre Dame all have plenty of sub-1400 SAT players.

It’s generally absurd to even think any kid able to play at these types of schools are even considering Harvard at all

You're shifting the goalposts. This all started as Alabama vs. Harvard. I'm the one who first brought up Stanford, and agree 100% that any football player with the choice should be going there instead of Harvard.

Duke and Vanderbilt is a closer call, but I'd pick them over Harvard too for most.

Michigan and ND is where it becomes 50/50 for me. Depending on your background/interests, either option seems fine.

No chance would I pick Alabama though, unless you were a five-star recruit. Even four-star recruits are facing uphill battles to make enough NIL over four years (or NFL money) to outweigh the financial advantage over 40 years of attending Harvard. Don't forget, Harvard is tuition-free for families making under $200K and completely free for those making under $100K.

There is no Big 12 school I'd pick over Harvard, even as a 5-star recruit.

This is really stupid and you know it. Harvard has never had a 5 star recruit ever. I guarantee you that in the history of football recruiting there have been some with the stats to get into Harvard as a football recruit…but never even remotely considered it.

I doubt they have even landed a single 3 star recruit.

If only there were a way to look up whether you're full of crap.
https://247sports.com/college/harvard/sport/football/alltimerecruits/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Lots of students turn down Ivies for MIT, Stanford, Chicago, Vanderbilt, Rice, Northwestern, CalTech, Duke, Johns Hopkins, Williams, Pomona, Amherst, Michigan, Berkeley, Texas, not to mention all the schools that offered significant merit aid. It's actually quite common to turn down paying $400,000 for Harvard or Penn and choosing the free ride at the state flagship instead. I know a couple of STEM kids at UMD that did exactly that.

It's rare to turn down Harvard.

15-20% of Harvard's admitted students turn it down. Yes, that's a high yield, but not rare to turn it down.

But, you missed the real issue as many who turn down Harvard do so to attend another Ivy League school; this thread is about turning down an Ivy League school (Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, Brown, U Penn) to attend a non-Ivy League school.

Would be a more interesting thread if it discussed whether or not those who turned down an Ivy League school to attend a non-Ivy had any regrets 10 years after graduating college/university.

Also, this thread should expand the list of Ivy League schools from 8 to 10 to include Stanford & MIT.

No-one who is rejecting an ivy is regretting that decision a decade out. Most who are, are choosing prestigious schools like WASP or ivy+ colleges.

How would you know ?

It's just an a reality of being an adult. Why do you believe otherwise?

WOW ! Clearly not an issue in your life.

Hopefully not for anyone here. You still thinking about your college decisions decades later?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not all Power 4 schools are created equal. Some are worth attending for free (vs. Harvard), others not so much.

Well…it depends on how good a football player you are because if you are NFL material then nobody gives a f**k how good the school is academically, yes?

Just so happens if you are smart enough to get recruited for football to Harvard (which can still be scores hundreds less than the average Harvard student)…and you are great at football…then guess what, you are smart enough for Duke, Stanford, Vandy, Michigan, ND, etc.

So…logic would dictate that a 5 star 1400 SAT kid might go to say Alabama because they have the potential to go Pro or pick Michigan or ND…while the 3 star 1400 SAT kid will go to Duke or Stanford…and one star 1400 kid may go to Harvard.

Under 10 percent of Power 4 players are NFL material. Your chances are certainly higher from Alabama/Michigan, but still the odds are heavily against it.

The more important point here is that the "5 star 1400 SAT kid" is a unicorn. There are only like 30 five-star recruits in any given year. In the past decade, I'd be surprised if more than one or two of them had a 1400 SAT score, if any.

None of which you say supports any choosing Harvard over equally elite Power 4 schools that are 100% free…hence the reference to 3 star recruits who are still much better players than the Harvard recruits who are one star at best.

Stanford, Duke, Vandy, Michigan and Notre Dame all have plenty of sub-1400 SAT players.

It’s generally absurd to even think any kid able to play at these types of schools are even considering Harvard at all

You're shifting the goalposts. This all started as Alabama vs. Harvard. I'm the one who first brought up Stanford, and agree 100% that any football player with the choice should be going there instead of Harvard.

Duke and Vanderbilt is a closer call, but I'd pick them over Harvard too for most.

Michigan and ND is where it becomes 50/50 for me. Depending on your background/interests, either option seems fine.

No chance would I pick Alabama though, unless you were a five-star recruit. Even four-star recruits are facing uphill battles to make enough NIL over four years (or NFL money) to outweigh the financial advantage over 40 years of attending Harvard. Don't forget, Harvard is tuition-free for families making under $200K and completely free for those making under $100K.

There is no Big 12 school I'd pick over Harvard, even as a 5-star recruit.

This is really stupid and you know it. Harvard has never had a 5 star recruit ever. I guarantee you that in the history of football recruiting there have been some with the stats to get into Harvard as a football recruit…but never even remotely considered it.

I doubt they have even landed a single 3 star recruit.

If only there were a way to look up whether you're full of crap.
https://247sports.com/college/harvard/sport/football/alltimerecruits/

So…they landed 3 stars and no 4 star or 5 star and more zero star than 3 star.

You still sticking to your belief any 5 star would even remotely consider Harvard?

[Anonymous]

Did you not read the part upthread where I said "No chance would I pick Alabama though, unless you were a five-star recruit"?

There are players who have chosen Princeton over Alabama and Michigan.

https://247sports.com/Player/brevin-white-80766/

https://247sports.com/Player/will-reed-46079085/

As an aside, any five-star recruit who cares one bit about academics should always be choosing Michigan, Texas, or Georgia over Alabama.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did you not read the part upthread where I said "No chance would I pick Alabama though, unless you were a five-star recruit"?

There are players who have chosen Princeton over Alabama and Michigan.

https://247sports.com/Player/brevin-white-80766/

https://247sports.com/Player/will-reed-46079085/

As an aside, any five-star recruit who cares one bit about academics should always be choosing Michigan, Texas, or Georgia over Alabama.

One of the links has a kid committed to Ga Tech (Power 4). None are five star.

Most athletes and especially football are sports management majors. Doesn’t really matter where you go. Also, the alumni network for top football schools is great everywhere…so again, it doesn’t really matter.

Just FYI, but nearly the entire All Ivy basketball team transferred to Power 4 schools this past year, including several from Harvard. Those guys will make around $250k each per year in NIL.

Athletes just don’t care that much about pedigree. I recall on last year’s final 4 NC State team the starting point guard (who was a senior last year) had transferred from Stanford.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not all Power 4 schools are created equal. Some are worth attending for free (vs. Harvard), others not so much.

Well…it depends on how good a football player you are because if you are NFL material then nobody gives a f**k how good the school is academically, yes?

Just so happens if you are smart enough to get recruited for football to Harvard (which can still be scores hundreds less than the average Harvard student)…and you are great at football…then guess what, you are smart enough for Duke, Stanford, Vandy, Michigan, ND, etc.

So…logic would dictate that a 5 star 1400 SAT kid might go to say Alabama because they have the potential to go Pro or pick Michigan or ND…while the 3 star 1400 SAT kid will go to Duke or Stanford…and one star 1400 kid may go to Harvard.

Under 10 percent of Power 4 players are NFL material. Your chances are certainly higher from Alabama/Michigan, but still the odds are heavily against it.

The more important point here is that the "5 star 1400 SAT kid" is a unicorn. There are only like 30 five-star recruits in any given year. In the past decade, I'd be surprised if more than one or two of them had a 1400 SAT score, if any.

None of which you say supports any choosing Harvard over equally elite Power 4 schools that are 100% free…hence the reference to 3 star recruits who are still much better players than the Harvard recruits who are one star at best.

Stanford, Duke, Vandy, Michigan and Notre Dame all have plenty of sub-1400 SAT players.

It’s generally absurd to even think any kid able to play at these types of schools are even considering Harvard at all

You're shifting the goalposts. This all started as Alabama vs. Harvard. I'm the one who first brought up Stanford, and agree 100% that any football player with the choice should be going there instead of Harvard.

Duke and Vanderbilt is a closer call, but I'd pick them over Harvard too for most.

Michigan and ND is where it becomes 50/50 for me. Depending on your background/interests, either option seems fine.

No chance would I pick Alabama though, unless you were a five-star recruit. Even four-star recruits are facing uphill battles to make enough NIL over four years (or NFL money) to outweigh the financial advantage over 40 years of attending Harvard. Don't forget, Harvard is tuition-free for families making under $200K and completely free for those making under $100K.

There is no Big 12 school I'd pick over Harvard, even as a 5-star recruit.

This is really stupid and you know it. Harvard has never had a 5 star recruit ever. I guarantee you that in the history of football recruiting there have been some with the stats to get into Harvard as a football recruit…but never even remotely considered it.

I doubt they have even landed a single 3 star recruit.

Michigan and ND would both be MUCH better, and more likely, choices for a non-NFL bound football recruit. Both those universities have serious intellectual weight, strong if not rabid alumni who love football and football players, and a shot at a national championship. Players strong enough to play at that level would get NOTHING from Harvard that they wouldn't get from ND and Michigan, unless they stopped playing football altogether. If that's the case, yes, go with Harvard.