Do you know a kid who was screwed in the college process in last few years?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:25% of Asian kids score 1400+ on the SAT.

Only 4% of White and 1% of Hispanic and Black kids do.

Asians are underrepresented at elite schools given their high grades and board scores.

But a lot of them get those scores because they go to cram schools. They're not naturally smarter or anything. And the problem with this framing is your premise is these scores are the primary criterion elite schools value -- or should value. They're not. And shouldn't be.

As it is, Asian kids are WOEFULLY overrepresented and we really should cut back on them.

Asians may be overrepresented relative to their overall percentage in the school going population, but underrepresented relative to their credentials and accomplishments. Both can be true.

This. Exactly.

So, they are using their analytical abilities to look beyond the college name and going for - in-demand hard STEM majors where there is a high barrier to entry, saving their education dollars, building wealth and network, as well as having profession adjacent gigs and startup ideas.

Well, no. They're making assumptions that everyone values what they value. Which is incredibly arrogant. And fundamentally incorrect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think any kids get "screwed" in the college application process. What a peculiar way of looking at things.

If you are the #1 kid in your school, aiming for T10/T20, and you end up at the flagship or worse (and not for financial reasons), then yeah, I think you were screwed since kids ranked FAR below you got into the schools you were aiming for?
Maybe it was your application? Your major? Your story?

What a strange sense of entitlement. If that came across in the application process, it might explain the rejection. The bottom line is this mythological "screwed" student is the common denominator here -- there's obviously something defective about them. They don't deserve a T10/T20 because of their stats -- and it's a fallacy to suspect that kids "ranked FAR below you got into schools you were aiming for." It's clear they had something you did not. Deal with it. You (or your kid) isn't nearly as special as you thought and isn't owed anything at all.

DP

I see it every year. Talk to any college cosultant They will tell you... "At least you're not Asian". All things being equal asians get screwed. Being white isn't great either but it's better than being asian.

[Anonymous]

Being white isn't great either. ... Oh my God the things that people actually say

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had a friend who was screwed (likely because she is Asian). She ended at becoming a doctor and is now CMO at a health care company. Super successful - no long term damage!

Asian kids are not screwed by universities. As it is, they're wildly overrepresented. So just stop with that ridiculous nonsense.

It is possible to be overrepresented and discriminated against

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is all relative. A kid can is screwed if someone with lower stats gets accepted and you don't. But is has be significantly lower stats.

When I hear about such cases, I am always skeptical that the person who got "screwed" actually knows the other kid's stats, and it is impossible that they know all the information about the other kid that caused the admissions committee to accept that kid and reject the other kid.

You didn't get screwed just because the college didn't take all 60,000 applications, rank them in order of GPA and test scores, and then offer admission to the top 10,000 applications without looking at anything else.

Yes but if a 36/1580, valedictorian, class president and varsity capt of championship sports team with maybe something else (national award in major related activity) doesn't get in, but others with demonstrably lower stats (per teachers) are getting in, that kid was screwed.

absolutely.
and yes, its part of life and it happens. but yes, it was being screwed.

That is ridiculous. There are more kids like that than spots every year. I think there are something like 30,000 high school valedictorians alone every single year.

Disagree. Most Valedictorians don't have all the other bells & whistles. Those bells & whistles are actually more important.

Definitely, and there was nothing in that list that would be some kind of bell or whistle that would guarantee admission to a competitive college. High stats ....admirable but many applicants have them. Class presidents .....admirable but every high School class has a president. There's 30,000 of those as well. Varsity Captains... Admirable again but well over 30,000 of those. National awards admirable again but what award there are 100,000 of those also.

Did you miss the party about the 1580 SAT score in addition to all of that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:25% of Asian kids score 1400+ on the SAT.

Only 4% of White and 1% of Hispanic and Black kids do.

Asians are underrepresented at elite schools given their high grades and board scores.

But a lot of them get those scores because they go to cram schools. They're not naturally smarter or anything. And the problem with this framing is your premise is these scores are the primary criterion elite schools value -- or should value. They're not. And shouldn't be.

As it is, Asian kids are WOEFULLY overrepresented and we really should cut back on them.

They're trying their best.

But people are staying to notice the racism and shaking their heads.

Studying is as essential to academics as practice is to athletics. American academics are not immune from competition and it kids have to compete. If the argument is that Asians only do well because they try harder then why aren't you kids trying harder? Their competition isn't the Asian kid next door, it's the Asian kid in China.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:25% of Asian kids score 1400+ on the SAT.

Only 4% of White and 1% of Hispanic and Black kids do.

Asians are underrepresented at elite schools given their high grades and board scores.

There is no lack of Asian representation at top schools. Asians aren't the only students that are recruited athletes or recruited musicians or recruited artists or recruited scientists or recruited writers or any of the other dozens of talents that these schools seek. You need to stop whining and go out and practice more or something.

He's talking about the anti Asian racism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is all relative. A kid can is screwed if someone with lower stats gets accepted and you don't. But is has be significantly lower stats.

Agree. That is what I think of as "screwed". But how often does this actually happen?

It doesn't happen often, with it being anecdotal at best and totally unproven at worst.

Parents with sour grapes.

It's happens ALL THE TIME.
Ask any Asian at top private.
Heck, just ask any Asian.

We have all seen it with friends and family.

With that said, it seems better this year with the fall of affirmative action and Trump putting the fear of God into admission committees. I hate Trump but even a broken clock is right twice a day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Immediately after Floyd’s murder many schools increased their diversity efforts. That combined with the sudden test optional/blind practices (mostly due to Covid but also partly because of diversity pushes) created some new obstacles for the unhooked but academically strong. That period contributed to the anti DEI sentiment of today.

With many things, when the pendulum swings too far one way, it often overcorrects in the other.

Admissions were particularly brutal for the HS class of ‘21, since there were fewer slots following many deferred admissions from the year before, due to Covid.

Rephrasing: after George Floyd's murder, white people suddenly realized the continuing disadvantages of racism. Some institutions made attempts to make things more fair by removing some of the advantages white students had received for generations.

Advantages like studying for standardized tests and doing well on them?

Our small private placed 2 black girls at Yale test optional in 2022. No advanced classes. These girls are so disadvantaged they have never set foot in a public school in their lives.

In pure numbers, more UMC whites get accepted TO. But, but 2 black girls...

In pure numbers? Do you have any idea how many black people there are compared to white people in this country?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:25% of Asian kids score 1400+ on the SAT.

Only 4% of White and 1% of Hispanic and Black kids do.

Asians are underrepresented at elite schools given their high grades and board scores.

But a lot of them get those scores because they go to cram schools. They're not naturally smarter or anything. And the problem with this framing is your premise is these scores are the primary criterion elite schools value -- or should value. They're not. And shouldn't be.

As it is, Asian kids are WOEFULLY overrepresented and we really should cut back on them.

They're trying their best.

But people are staying to notice the racism and shaking their heads.

Studying is as essential to academics as practice is to athletics. American academics are not immune from competition and it kids have to compete. If the argument is that Asians only do well because they try harder then why aren't you kids trying harder? Their competition isn't the Asian kid next door, it's the Asian kid in China.

For the same reason college coaches look beyond athletes that have had an enormous amount of coaching/practice already. In many cases they are overcoached, overworked, and are already at their peak with no room to grow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:it is bizarre to me that seemingly the same people want a total scores only meritocracy re: admitting black students (and make alot of assumptions about the objective criteria vis a vis the black students) and yet flip out when asians beat whites at the scores and start talking about wholistic factors. If you are going to stress out your kids by teaching them that their value is dependent on what schools they get into at least pick a lane

Is this your first experience with wypipo?

[Anonymous]

Op here.

The kid I was referring to, ironically, was a South Asian male. Think he was too good in too many things. Top everything.

I still stand behind my view he was screwed (even when I think of my own kids and their lesser qualifications doing better than his initial regular decisions).

It is clear everyone has a different perspective on this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is all relative. A kid can is screwed if someone with lower stats gets accepted and you don't. But is has be significantly lower stats.

When I hear about such cases, I am always skeptical that the person who got "screwed" actually knows the other kid's stats, and it is impossible that they know all the information about the other kid that caused the admissions committee to accept that kid and reject the other kid.

You didn't get screwed just because the college didn't take all 60,000 applications, rank them in order of GPA and test scores, and then offer admission to the top 10,000 applications without looking at anything else.

Yes but if a 36/1580, valedictorian, class president and varsity capt of championship sports team with maybe something else (national award in major related activity) doesn't get in, but others with demonstrably lower stats (per teachers) are getting in, that kid was screwed.

absolutely.
and yes, its part of life and it happens. but yes, it was being screwed.

No it is NOT "being screwed". it's about recognizing that there is more to life and getting into college than a 36/1600/class president and varsity team Capitan. There are others who are apparently more interesting, write better essays, have better recommendations and perhaps just present themselves as more intellectual curiosity.

You are talking about schools where only 5-10% are accepted. So 90%+ are REJECTED
Do the math, it's going to happen to many top students.

Until recently it was skin color. But this year seems better than previous years. I'll wait to see what the admissions numbers look like. But the discrimination against asians seems noticeably reduced this year. At least based on anecdotal evidence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:25% of Asian kids score 1400+ on the SAT.

Only 4% of White and 1% of Hispanic and Black kids do.

Asians are underrepresented at elite schools given their high grades and board scores.

But a lot of them get those scores because they go to cram schools. They're not naturally smarter or anything. And the problem with this framing is your premise is these scores are the primary criterion elite schools value -- or should value. They're not. And shouldn't be.

As it is, Asian kids are WOEFULLY overrepresented and we really should cut back on them.

Asians may be overrepresented relative to their overall percentage in the school going population, but underrepresented relative to their credentials and accomplishments. Both can be true.

This. Exactly.

So, they are using their analytical abilities to look beyond the college name and going for - in-demand hard STEM majors where there is a high barrier to entry, saving their education dollars, building wealth and network, as well as having profession adjacent gigs and startup ideas.

You are basically arguing that computer science skills are more worthy than great writers or great dancers or great linguists and so on. You need to find a place at a school that agrees with that. If you are trying to get a place at a school that also values scientific research skills, then you might get beat out by a science researcher. What the student brings to the table needs to align with what the school wants on the table.

No. I am not arguing that at all. What I am saying and seeing is that these Asian superstars are often times studying a STEM major and a Humanities major. So, really, they are all-rounders. Good communicators, able to see the big picture, good debaters etc. Most of them are polygots- knowing multiple languages. In addition to all of this - they are dancers, painters, singers, photographers, and accompalished musicians too. It is the culture of being all-rounders and excelling in everything. So, it becomes immaterial if Ivies don't take them. They are increasing the profile of the regular state colleges. In schools like UMD, it is extremely hard for average kids to get into the high demand classes or even compete with the cohort.

Ok. So they're not screwed. I thought this thread was about students feeling they were screwed over by getting a spot at UMD. Umd is a very fine institution with competitive admissions and offers significant opportunities to its graduates . I am not of the opinion that anyone is screwed over by going there but that was the topic of this thread.

No. I believe that Asian students have changed the rhetoric now. The tippy-top students are being rejected for being Asians (yes, I understand that colleges want diversity and not merit) and they are going to state flagships instead. So, now, because the influx of these academic superstars, state colleges are doing very well and rising in ranking. The only downside I can see is the average student in-state may find it extremely hard to get into these programs because the academic stats and ECs are so high.

Having super hardworking Asians in this country is a boon for this country and for our educational institutions. It is keeping US competitive. And no, intelligence does not have a racial component. Individuals can be geniuses and every child can be educated to reach their best.

Like I said above, we are not really competing with each other, we are competing with China.
We are competing with each other for varsity or JV and for starting or bench positions but we are all on the same team. We are competing against china who is fielding the best team they can put together. We are picking varsity players based on things like skin color and how rich their family is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Being white isn't great either. ... Oh my God the things that people actually say

Yeah, in college admissions, being white isn't great.