Consensus world view of TOP 5/6 UK University Rankings (Prestige/Research)

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP, thanks for posting. Currently tossing up potential choices for DS if a conditional offer for economics from Edinburgh comes through (already has offer from Durham).

Similar spot here. Son has offers from Bristol and Exeter. Waiting on Edinburgh and St Andrews.
Is your son leaning Edinburgh if everything comes through?

My DD got unconditional offers at St. Andrews and Edinburgh in November, but has heard nothing from the LSE.

Anyone hear anything from there?

Is she really planning on attending one of the three? As of now, is she leaning STA or UofE?

I'm hoping she'll choose a US option! I don't like the idea of her so far. But the choice is hers. I will discourage anything that isn't unconditional -- I don't want that hanging over her head in June and July.

It’s OK takes up an offer from an American university and a conditional offer from a UK university. It’s sort of like staying on the waitlist of the school.

That is what my son did. He had a ED offer from USC last year and a conditional from LSE. He met the conditional and is now finishing up his 1st year in London.

What was the condition he had to meet?

He already had 5 APs with a 5 but they also wantes to see AP Calc BC with a 5 as he was taking it in his sr yr. He accepted his USC offer and his deposit by May 1 and then waited the May AP exam. Once he got his 5 on Calc BC, and LSE confirmed it, he dropped USC.

I wonder how many kids do this. Probably not a lot. UK universities now understand that to attract top US talent they need to make unconditional offers.

[Anonymous]

DS just got an email today from St Andrews saying they received a ton of applications and will be taking a little longer to respond. After further investigation this stems from a flood of applications coming in late Dec and January from US students…..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, thanks for posting. Currently tossing up potential choices for DS if a conditional offer for economics from Edinburgh comes through (already has offer from Durham).

Similar spot here. Son has offers from Bristol and Exeter. Waiting on Edinburgh and St Andrews.
Is your son leaning Edinburgh if everything comes through?

My DD got unconditional offers at St. Andrews and Edinburgh in November, but has heard nothing from the LSE.

Anyone hear anything from there?

Is she really planning on attending one of the three? As of now, is she leaning STA or UofE?

I'm hoping she'll choose a US option! I don't like the idea of her so far. But the choice is hers. I will discourage anything that isn't unconditional -- I don't want that hanging over her head in June and July.

It’s OK takes up an offer from an American university and a conditional offer from a UK university. It’s sort of like staying on the waitlist of the school.

That is what my son did. He had a ED offer from USC last year and a conditional from LSE. He met the conditional and is now finishing up his 1st year in London.

What was the condition he had to meet?

He already had 5 APs with a 5 but they also wantes to see AP Calc BC with a 5 as he was taking it in his sr yr. He accepted his USC offer and his deposit by May 1 and then waited the May AP exam. Once he got his 5 on Calc BC, and LSE confirmed it, he dropped USC.

I wonder how many kids do this. Probably not a lot. UK universities now understand that to attract top US talent they need to make unconditional offers.

No, applicants who are serious about attending these schools understand the conditional offer as part of the process. My student was granted a full ride scholarship (Marshall, Churchill) to Cambridge for post-graduate study, and even those students receive conditional offers. When you think about it, offers to US universities are conditional in a different way (there are conditions which would nullify the acceptance, eg. transcript, diploma, some disciplinary actions).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, thanks for posting. Currently tossing up potential choices for DS if a conditional offer for economics from Edinburgh comes through (already has offer from Durham).

Similar spot here. Son has offers from Bristol and Exeter. Waiting on Edinburgh and St Andrews.
Is your son leaning Edinburgh if everything comes through?

My DD got unconditional offers at St. Andrews and Edinburgh in November, but has heard nothing from the LSE.

Anyone hear anything from there?

Is she really planning on attending one of the three? As of now, is she leaning STA or UofE?

I'm hoping she'll choose a US option! I don't like the idea of her so far. But the choice is hers. I will discourage anything that isn't unconditional -- I don't want that hanging over her head in June and July.

It’s OK takes up an offer from an American university and a conditional offer from a UK university. It’s sort of like staying on the waitlist of the school.

That is what my son did. He had a ED offer from USC last year and a conditional from LSE. He met the conditional and is now finishing up his 1st year in London.

What was the condition he had to meet?

He already had 5 APs with a 5 but they also wantes to see AP Calc BC with a 5 as he was taking it in his sr yr. He accepted his USC offer and his deposit by May 1 and then waited the May AP exam. Once he got his 5 on Calc BC, and LSE confirmed it, he dropped USC.

I wonder how many kids do this. Probably not a lot. UK universities now understand that to attract top US talent they need to make unconditional offers.

No, applicants who are serious about attending these schools understand the conditional offer as part of the process. My student was granted a full ride scholarship (Marshall, Churchill) to Cambridge for post-graduate study, and even those students receive conditional offers. When you think about it, offers to US universities are conditional in a different way (there are conditions which would nullify the acceptance, eg. transcript, diploma, some disciplinary actions).

PP had an interesting question. For a conditional that depends on a AP test that will be taken in May, means that to cover your bases, you probably need to send a deposit for a US school by May 1st. Unless you are with your insurance selection. I had heard from two different US based admissions counselors that focus on UK schools that those schools are getting better every year about assessing US applicants and offering unconditional offers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, thanks for posting. Currently tossing up potential choices for DS if a conditional offer for economics from Edinburgh comes through (already has offer from Durham).

Similar spot here. Son has offers from Bristol and Exeter. Waiting on Edinburgh and St Andrews.
Is your son leaning Edinburgh if everything comes through?

My DD got unconditional offers at St. Andrews and Edinburgh in November, but has heard nothing from the LSE.

Anyone hear anything from there?

Is she really planning on attending one of the three? As of now, is she leaning STA or UofE?

I'm hoping she'll choose a US option! I don't like the idea of her so far. But the choice is hers. I will discourage anything that isn't unconditional -- I don't want that hanging over her head in June and July.

It’s OK takes up an offer from an American university and a conditional offer from a UK university. It’s sort of like staying on the waitlist of the school.

That is what my son did. He had a ED offer from USC last year and a conditional from LSE. He met the conditional and is now finishing up his 1st year in London.

What was the condition he had to meet?

He already had 5 APs with a 5 but they also wantes to see AP Calc BC with a 5 as he was taking it in his sr yr. He accepted his USC offer and his deposit by May 1 and then waited the May AP exam. Once he got his 5 on Calc BC, and LSE confirmed it, he dropped USC.

I wonder how many kids do this. Probably not a lot. UK universities now understand that to attract top US talent they need to make unconditional offers.

No, applicants who are serious about attending these schools understand the conditional offer as part of the process. My student was granted a full ride scholarship (Marshall, Churchill) to Cambridge for post-graduate study, and even those students receive conditional offers. When you think about it, offers to US universities are conditional in a different way (there are conditions which would nullify the acceptance, eg. transcript, diploma, some disciplinary actions).

PP had an interesting question. For a conditional that depends on a AP test that will be taken in May, means that to cover your bases, you probably need to send a deposit for a US school by May 1st. Unless you are with your insurance selection. I had heard from two different US based admissions counselors that focus on UK schools that those schools are getting better every year about assessing US applicants and offering unconditional offers.

This is not my experience. Two kids who went to high school here and now go to UK Universities- conditional offers all round (despite being good students). It is just the way things are done there. It is only the ones that are super keen on attracting US students (eg St Andrews) that do unconditional offers, unless the student is exceptional. Yes, it sucks for US students. But everyone in the UK is in the same boat. If you don’t get your grades there is always the clearing process.

[Anonymous]

My kid just had unconditional offers for Exeter, Kings and Bristol. Only had 1 AP at 5 and 1460 SAT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid just had unconditional offers for Exeter, Kings and Bristol. Only had 1 AP at 5 and 1460 SAT.

What major?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid just had unconditional offers for Exeter, Kings and Bristol. Only had 1 AP at 5 and 1460 SAT.

What major?

Business & Management and Econ

[Anonymous]

Can I ask what AP scores Edinburgh was asking for Econ?

Anonymous wrote:OP, thanks for posting. Currently tossing up potential choices for DS if a conditional offer for economics from Edinburgh comes through (already has offer from Durham).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, thanks for posting. Currently tossing up potential choices for DS if a conditional offer for economics from Edinburgh comes through (already has offer from Durham).

Similar spot here. Son has offers from Bristol and Exeter. Waiting on Edinburgh and St Andrews.
Is your son leaning Edinburgh if everything comes through?

My DD got unconditional offers at St. Andrews and Edinburgh in November, but has heard nothing from the LSE.

Anyone hear anything from there?

Is she really planning on attending one of the three? As of now, is she leaning STA or UofE?

I'm hoping she'll choose a US option! I don't like the idea of her so far. But the choice is hers. I will discourage anything that isn't unconditional -- I don't want that hanging over her head in June and July.

It’s OK takes up an offer from an American university and a conditional offer from a UK university. It’s sort of like staying on the waitlist of the school.

That is what my son did. He had a ED offer from USC last year and a conditional from LSE. He met the conditional and is now finishing up his 1st year in London.

What was the condition he had to meet?

He already had 5 APs with a 5 but they also wantes to see AP Calc BC with a 5 as he was taking it in his sr yr. He accepted his USC offer and his deposit by May 1 and then waited the May AP exam. Once he got his 5 on Calc BC, and LSE confirmed it, he dropped USC.

I wonder how many kids do this. Probably not a lot. UK universities now understand that to attract top US talent they need to make unconditional offers.

No, applicants who are serious about attending these schools understand the conditional offer as part of the process. My student was granted a full ride scholarship (Marshall, Churchill) to Cambridge for post-graduate study, and even those students receive conditional offers. When you think about it, offers to US universities are conditional in a different way (there are conditions which would nullify the acceptance, eg. transcript, diploma, some disciplinary actions).

PP had an interesting question. For a conditional that depends on a AP test that will be taken in May, means that to cover your bases, you probably need to send a deposit for a US school by May 1st. Unless you are with your insurance selection. I had heard from two different US based admissions counselors that focus on UK schools that those schools are getting better every year about assessing US applicants and offering unconditional offers.

This is not my experience. Two kids who went to high school here and now go to UK Universities- conditional offers all round (despite being good students). It is just the way things are done there. It is only the ones that are super keen on attracting US students (eg St Andrews) that do unconditional offers, unless the student is exceptional. Yes, it sucks for US students. But everyone in the UK is in the same boat. If you don’t get your grades there is always the clearing process.

As more US kids take AP exams earlier in high school, more US kids have met the conditions of their offers before senior year. My kid's Oxford offer was conditional on him sending official AP scores for tests that he had taken sophomore and junior year in high school . . . .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Curious when you say employers outside the UK consider these universities the best.

Do you mean outside the UK and outside the US?

I doubt most US employers recognize anything beyond Oxford/Cambridge. Maybe they know London School of Economics or St Andrews.

NP. Not correct, PP. Employers in STEM fields worldwide, including in the U.S., absolutely know and respect Imperial. I know this first-hand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why are you posting this at DCUM, a US-focused forum? Most Americans do not care what the worldwide reputation is of a college if the student is not pursuing some field with potential international reach. US employers are what matter to them.

Ignore the rude rube, OP. I appreciate your post!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From an international perspective:

Oxford/Cambridge ~ Harvard/MIT/Stanford -> True global recognition and importance

Imperial/UCL/LSE ~ Princeton/Caltech/Duke/Columbia/Yale/Wharton -> Very influential and popular but can be hit or miss on recognition

Edinburgh/King's ~ Lower Ivies/Northwestern/Johns Hopkins/UChicago -> Known in elite circles but general public will struggle

That being said, the US schools are generally more selective, and for purposes of working in the US, any US T10 should get picked over Oxbridge

Name recognition by generic "elite circles" or "the general public" is inconsequential, unless you perhaps care about getting attention at parties, I guess? What matters is whether prospective employers in one's specific field know your university's reputation in that field. (And this being DCUM, I know how the hive mind here works, so I'll pre-empt any nonsense by saying my degree is from one of the OP'S top four UK unis. So no sour grapes, just disdain for the emphasis on mere "recognition" of a uni name.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
My husband and I get tons of questions about this from our American friends. Now that our two younger kids are about to go through the process, we’ve been following this forum closely, and we’ve noticed these questions come up frequently. Hopefully, this helps!

This perspective is specifically for non-UK students/residents, as many of us in the UK unfortunately still rely heavily on our League Tables. These rankings take student satisfaction into account but tend to undervalue research output and overall research quality. This has its pros and cons but sometimes leads to results where universities like Loughborough, Bath, or St Andrews rank ahead of institutions that are considered more prestigious on an international scale.

After moving away from the UK after university and graduate school, spending seven years in Southeast Asia, 14 years in the US, and additional time in South America and Europe before returning to the US, I’ve come to realize that there is a fairly consistent global consensus (outside the UK) on which UK universities are the most prestigious—regardless of what our domestic League Tables might suggest.

To be clear, this doesn’t mean that universities outside this top group aren’t excellent. There are fantastic programs at Bath, Warwick, Bristol, St Andrews, etc. However, outside the UK, these six universities tend to be viewed by major employers and top universities as the most impressive and prestigious, with significantly stronger alumni networks:

1. Oxford/Cambridge
2. Imperial
3. UCL
4. Edinburgh/King’s

This ranking aligns well with global university rankings that factor in research output. I didn’t include LSE because it has such a narrow academic focus, but within those fields, it is, of course, world renowned.

My husband and I attended three of these six universities, plus one outside the list, and our experiences living all over the world have reinforced this perspective. In the US, St Andrews might be viewed positively in certain regions, but overall, the top 5–6 universities have remained consistent over time. Bristol is also well-regarded internationally and is often perceived as a step above St Andrews due to its broader research strength.

I frequently get questions from American friends about Warwick, Bristol, Bath, Exeter, and Lancaster for their kids. While these are great universities, some of which are particularly strong in specific subjects, outside the UK they generally don’t carry the same level of prestige as the six mentioned above. And based on what I’ve seen here on DCUM, prestige seems to matter a lot to many people in the US.

That said, students at these universities outside of the top 5-6 will still receive an excellent education. If the alternative is a T50–T75 US school, attending one of these top 10/12 UK universities outside the top 5 could still be a great option, especially for independent students who know exactly what they want to study.

Hope this helps!

Nice informative post on DCUM for once….

[Anonymous]

My Junior is seriously considering going abroad. We will be going to the UK in June to tour 6-7 schools (Glasgow, Edinburgh, St Andrews, Manchester, Durham, Exeter, Warwick and Bristol).

Just worried about the hate americans will be getting there given our gov actions in the international stage…