Is there a reason real estate has appreciated so much more in VA than MD and DC?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Appreciation rates are similar, although Virginia has slightly outpaced.

Let me just say though that Maryland has miles and miles of just horribly seedy and ugly areas from the Potomac river to Silver Spring, and then Chevy Chase and Bethesda. So it's a lot of poor, and some very, very rich. Virginia has vast swaths of decent upper middle class suburbs. I think in the end the Maryland side has turned into essentially a California like environment.

I don't get this. NoVA is full of these charmless commercial strips with a bunch of generic big box stores and fast food places lining a wide road with limited pedestrian infrastructure, surrounded by poorly constructed townhomes and single family homes. Yes there are some more charming areas (Old Town, Falls Church) and thee are neighborhoods with houses that have character (though these are rapidly being bought up and converted to hideous 5 bedroom monstrosities in that weird faux-farmhouse style that don't fit the lot). And you do have some urbanism in Ballston/Courthouse/Rosslyn. But by and large, VA is a bunch of "stroads" (look it up) and Targets with overpriced, poorly-built new builds. It's convenient, but sort of depressing.

MD does have some seedy areas but there are tons of neighborhoods in MoCo outside the super expensive parts that have charm, local business, community gathering places, varied housing stock, real sidewalks, and feel human scaled (and not just designed to move cars around). It's not perfect, but to me it holds a lot more appeal.

Your description of NoVA could just as easily describe numerous parts of Maryland

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Appreciation rates are similar, although Virginia has slightly outpaced.

Let me just say though that Maryland has miles and miles of just horribly seedy and ugly areas from the Potomac river to Silver Spring, and then Chevy Chase and Bethesda. So it's a lot of poor, and some very, very rich. Virginia has vast swaths of decent upper middle class suburbs. I think in the end the Maryland side has turned into essentially a California like environment.

I don't get this. NoVA is full of these charmless commercial strips with a bunch of generic big box stores and fast food places lining a wide road with limited pedestrian infrastructure, surrounded by poorly constructed townhomes and single family homes. Yes there are some more charming areas (Old Town, Falls Church) and thee are neighborhoods with houses that have character (though these are rapidly being bought up and converted to hideous 5 bedroom monstrosities in that weird faux-farmhouse style that don't fit the lot). And you do have some urbanism in Ballston/Courthouse/Rosslyn. But by and large, VA is a bunch of "stroads" (look it up) and Targets with overpriced, poorly-built new builds. It's convenient, but sort of depressing.

MD does have some seedy areas but there are tons of neighborhoods in MoCo outside the super expensive parts that have charm, local business, community gathering places, varied housing stock, real sidewalks, and feel human scaled (and not just designed to move cars around). It's not perfect, but to me it holds a lot more appeal.

People pay a premium to be AWAY from community gathering places, varied housing stock, public transportation, and other people, in general. It’s what makes them isolated and exclusive, and thus, more expensive with higher appreciation. Even in urban environments, more isolated = higher prices, even if it’s in the form of a doorman and locked doors. You can always go to the people if you want, but if you live with the masses, you can’t escape. Driving means fewer forced interactions with random crazies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Appreciation rates are similar, although Virginia has slightly outpaced.

Let me just say though that Maryland has miles and miles of just horribly seedy and ugly areas from the Potomac river to Silver Spring, and then Chevy Chase and Bethesda. So it's a lot of poor, and some very, very rich. Virginia has vast swaths of decent upper middle class suburbs. I think in the end the Maryland side has turned into essentially a California like environment.

I don't get this. NoVA is full of these charmless commercial strips with a bunch of generic big box stores and fast food places lining a wide road with limited pedestrian infrastructure, surrounded by poorly constructed townhomes and single family homes. Yes there are some more charming areas (Old Town, Falls Church) and thee are neighborhoods with houses that have character (though these are rapidly being bought up and converted to hideous 5 bedroom monstrosities in that weird faux-farmhouse style that don't fit the lot). And you do have some urbanism in Ballston/Courthouse/Rosslyn. But by and large, VA is a bunch of "stroads" (look it up) and Targets with overpriced, poorly-built new builds. It's convenient, but sort of depressing.

MD does have some seedy areas but there are tons of neighborhoods in MoCo outside the super expensive parts that have charm, local business, community gathering places, varied housing stock, real sidewalks, and feel human scaled (and not just designed to move cars around). It's not perfect, but to me it holds a lot more appeal.

+1. This captures the difference between the two areas so perfectly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Appreciation rates are similar, although Virginia has slightly outpaced.

Let me just say though that Maryland has miles and miles of just horribly seedy and ugly areas from the Potomac river to Silver Spring, and then Chevy Chase and Bethesda. So it's a lot of poor, and some very, very rich. Virginia has vast swaths of decent upper middle class suburbs. I think in the end the Maryland side has turned into essentially a California like environment.

I don't get this. NoVA is full of these charmless commercial strips with a bunch of generic big box stores and fast food places lining a wide road with limited pedestrian infrastructure, surrounded by poorly constructed townhomes and single family homes. Yes there are some more charming areas (Old Town, Falls Church) and thee are neighborhoods with houses that have character (though these are rapidly being bought up and converted to hideous 5 bedroom monstrosities in that weird faux-farmhouse style that don't fit the lot). And you do have some urbanism in Ballston/Courthouse/Rosslyn. But by and large, VA is a bunch of "stroads" (look it up) and Targets with overpriced, poorly-built new builds. It's convenient, but sort of depressing.

MD does have some seedy areas but there are tons of neighborhoods in MoCo outside the super expensive parts that have charm, local business, community gathering places, varied housing stock, real sidewalks, and feel human scaled (and not just designed to move cars around). It's not perfect, but to me it holds a lot more appeal.

Your description of NoVA could just as easily describe numerous parts of Maryland

Some, but I was referring specifically I MoCo close to DC, which a PP described as "seedy" and very inferior to NoVa, other than Bethesda. Yet I know tons of people in places like Takoma Park, Kensington, Forest Glen, and Rockville that are more charming, connected, and pleasant than the vast majority of NoVA. I get some people move to NoVA to get away from people and that's fine -- to each their own. But many people want to live in a walkable neighborhood that has a good community vibe. It's really hard to find in VA. MD isn't "seedy" just because it does -- these are highly desirable qualities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Appreciation rates are similar, although Virginia has slightly outpaced.

Let me just say though that Maryland has miles and miles of just horribly seedy and ugly areas from the Potomac river to Silver Spring, and then Chevy Chase and Bethesda. So it's a lot of poor, and some very, very rich. Virginia has vast swaths of decent upper middle class suburbs. I think in the end the Maryland side has turned into essentially a California like environment.

I don't get this. NoVA is full of these charmless commercial strips with a bunch of generic big box stores and fast food places lining a wide road with limited pedestrian infrastructure, surrounded by poorly constructed townhomes and single family homes. Yes there are some more charming areas (Old Town, Falls Church) and thee are neighborhoods with houses that have character (though these are rapidly being bought up and converted to hideous 5 bedroom monstrosities in that weird faux-farmhouse style that don't fit the lot). And you do have some urbanism in Ballston/Courthouse/Rosslyn. But by and large, VA is a bunch of "stroads" (look it up) and Targets with overpriced, poorly-built new builds. It's convenient, but sort of depressing.

MD does have some seedy areas but there are tons of neighborhoods in MoCo outside the super expensive parts that have charm, local business, community gathering places, varied housing stock, real sidewalks, and feel human scaled (and not just designed to move cars around). It's not perfect, but to me it holds a lot more appeal.

Your description of NoVA could just as easily describe numerous parts of Maryland

Some, but I was referring specifically I MoCo close to DC, which a PP described as "seedy" and very inferior to NoVa, other than Bethesda. Yet I know tons of people in places like Takoma Park, Kensington, Forest Glen, and Rockville that are more charming, connected, and pleasant than the vast majority of NoVA. I get some people move to NoVA to get away from people and that's fine -- to each their own. But many people want to live in a walkable neighborhood that has a good community vibe. It's really hard to find in VA. MD isn't "seedy" just because it does -- these are highly desirable qualities.

There are similar walkable and very Community oriented neighborhoods in Nova. And they're probably safer too

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Appreciation rates are similar, although Virginia has slightly outpaced.

Let me just say though that Maryland has miles and miles of just horribly seedy and ugly areas from the Potomac river to Silver Spring, and then Chevy Chase and Bethesda. So it's a lot of poor, and some very, very rich. Virginia has vast swaths of decent upper middle class suburbs. I think in the end the Maryland side has turned into essentially a California like environment.

I don't get this. NoVA is full of these charmless commercial strips with a bunch of generic big box stores and fast food places lining a wide road with limited pedestrian infrastructure, surrounded by poorly constructed townhomes and single family homes. Yes there are some more charming areas (Old Town, Falls Church) and thee are neighborhoods with houses that have character (though these are rapidly being bought up and converted to hideous 5 bedroom monstrosities in that weird faux-farmhouse style that don't fit the lot). And you do have some urbanism in Ballston/Courthouse/Rosslyn. But by and large, VA is a bunch of "stroads" (look it up) and Targets with overpriced, poorly-built new builds. It's convenient, but sort of depressing.

MD does have some seedy areas but there are tons of neighborhoods in MoCo outside the super expensive parts that have charm, local business, community gathering places, varied housing stock, real sidewalks, and feel human scaled (and not just designed to move cars around). It's not perfect, but to me it holds a lot more appeal.

Your description of NoVA could just as easily describe numerous parts of Maryland

Some, but I was referring specifically I MoCo close to DC, which a PP described as "seedy" and very inferior to NoVa, other than Bethesda. Yet I know tons of people in places like Takoma Park, Kensington, Forest Glen, and Rockville that are more charming, connected, and pleasant than the vast majority of NoVA. I get some people move to NoVA to get away from people and that's fine -- to each their own. But many people want to live in a walkable neighborhood that has a good community vibe. It's really hard to find in VA. MD isn't "seedy" just because it does -- these are highly desirable qualities.

There are similar walkable and very Community oriented neighborhoods in Nova. And they're probably safer too

Crimegrades:

Arlington County: C- (https://crimegrade.org/safest-places-in-arlington-county-va/)

Fairfax County: B (https://crimegrade.org/safest-places-in-fairfax-county-va/)

Montgomery County: A+ (https://crimegrade.org/safest-places-in-montgomery-county-md/)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Appreciation rates are similar, although Virginia has slightly outpaced.

Let me just say though that Maryland has miles and miles of just horribly seedy and ugly areas from the Potomac river to Silver Spring, and then Chevy Chase and Bethesda. So it's a lot of poor, and some very, very rich. Virginia has vast swaths of decent upper middle class suburbs. I think in the end the Maryland side has turned into essentially a California like environment.

I don't get this. NoVA is full of these charmless commercial strips with a bunch of generic big box stores and fast food places lining a wide road with limited pedestrian infrastructure, surrounded by poorly constructed townhomes and single family homes. Yes there are some more charming areas (Old Town, Falls Church) and thee are neighborhoods with houses that have character (though these are rapidly being bought up and converted to hideous 5 bedroom monstrosities in that weird faux-farmhouse style that don't fit the lot). And you do have some urbanism in Ballston/Courthouse/Rosslyn. But by and large, VA is a bunch of "stroads" (look it up) and Targets with overpriced, poorly-built new builds. It's convenient, but sort of depressing.

MD does have some seedy areas but there are tons of neighborhoods in MoCo outside the super expensive parts that have charm, local business, community gathering places, varied housing stock, real sidewalks, and feel human scaled (and not just designed to move cars around). It's not perfect, but to me it holds a lot more appeal.

People pay a premium to be AWAY from community gathering places, varied housing stock, public transportation, and other people, in general. It’s what makes them isolated and exclusive, and thus, more expensive with higher appreciation. Even in urban environments, more isolated = higher prices, even if it’s in the form of a doorman and locked doors. You can always go to the people if you want, but if you live with the masses, you can’t escape. Driving means fewer forced interactions with random crazies.

That's just... not accurate. As a general rule, the further a home is from other people, the cheaper it is per square foot. You can find expensive houses way out, but they will be huge. In fact a major reason people move further from cities is to be able to afford larger homes. The cost of land close in makes it prohibitively expensive to have a very large home, so they go further out where land is cheaper (because it's so far from everything convenient that people actually want, including their work, schools, parks, grocery stores, public transit, shopping, etc.).

It's true a lot of people prefer driving to public transit in the US. But where are you driving? To places with other people -- work, school, shopping, entertainment. Do you want that to take 2 hours or 30 minutes? Well that's the difference between living in Bethesda versus Front Royal, and that's why Bethesda is way more expensive. Also people in Bethesda at least have the option of taking public transit when traffic is really bad, whereas people who live further out never have that option and neither does anyone else, leading to even worse traffic.

In general, real estate gets more expensive the closer it is to a city center. That's why condos in downtown DC cost as much as large SFHs in the outer suburbs, even though most people would rather live in a SFH than a condo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Appreciation rates are similar, although Virginia has slightly outpaced.

Let me just say though that Maryland has miles and miles of just horribly seedy and ugly areas from the Potomac river to Silver Spring, and then Chevy Chase and Bethesda. So it's a lot of poor, and some very, very rich. Virginia has vast swaths of decent upper middle class suburbs. I think in the end the Maryland side has turned into essentially a California like environment.

I don't get this. NoVA is full of these charmless commercial strips with a bunch of generic big box stores and fast food places lining a wide road with limited pedestrian infrastructure, surrounded by poorly constructed townhomes and single family homes. Yes there are some more charming areas (Old Town, Falls Church) and thee are neighborhoods with houses that have character (though these are rapidly being bought up and converted to hideous 5 bedroom monstrosities in that weird faux-farmhouse style that don't fit the lot). And you do have some urbanism in Ballston/Courthouse/Rosslyn. But by and large, VA is a bunch of "stroads" (look it up) and Targets with overpriced, poorly-built new builds. It's convenient, but sort of depressing.

MD does have some seedy areas but there are tons of neighborhoods in MoCo outside the super expensive parts that have charm, local business, community gathering places, varied housing stock, real sidewalks, and feel human scaled (and not just designed to move cars around). It's not perfect, but to me it holds a lot more appeal.

Your description of NoVA could just as easily describe numerous parts of Maryland

Some, but I was referring specifically I MoCo close to DC, which a PP described as "seedy" and very inferior to NoVa, other than Bethesda. Yet I know tons of people in places like Takoma Park, Kensington, Forest Glen, and Rockville that are more charming, connected, and pleasant than the vast majority of NoVA. I get some people move to NoVA to get away from people and that's fine -- to each their own. But many people want to live in a walkable neighborhood that has a good community vibe. It's really hard to find in VA. MD isn't "seedy" just because it does -- these are highly desirable qualities.

There are similar walkable and very Community oriented neighborhoods in Nova. And they're probably safer too

List them. Always looking to add more walkable, community-oriented neighborhoods to my lists.

But the only ones I know of in NoVA are Del Ray, Old Town Alexandria, Clarendon, and Rosslyn. And they are all surrounded by extremely not walkable or community oriented areas. Whereas there is just a lot more density, public transit, connectivity, and walkability in close-in MoCo. There are also negative things about close in MoCo, but I think it has NoVa beat on walkability, largely because of when it was developed. NoVA is extremely car centric.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Appreciation rates are similar, although Virginia has slightly outpaced.

Let me just say though that Maryland has miles and miles of just horribly seedy and ugly areas from the Potomac river to Silver Spring, and then Chevy Chase and Bethesda. So it's a lot of poor, and some very, very rich. Virginia has vast swaths of decent upper middle class suburbs. I think in the end the Maryland side has turned into essentially a California like environment.

I don't get this. NoVA is full of these charmless commercial strips with a bunch of generic big box stores and fast food places lining a wide road with limited pedestrian infrastructure, surrounded by poorly constructed townhomes and single family homes. Yes there are some more charming areas (Old Town, Falls Church) and thee are neighborhoods with houses that have character (though these are rapidly being bought up and converted to hideous 5 bedroom monstrosities in that weird faux-farmhouse style that don't fit the lot). And you do have some urbanism in Ballston/Courthouse/Rosslyn. But by and large, VA is a bunch of "stroads" (look it up) and Targets with overpriced, poorly-built new builds. It's convenient, but sort of depressing.

MD does have some seedy areas but there are tons of neighborhoods in MoCo outside the super expensive parts that have charm, local business, community gathering places, varied housing stock, real sidewalks, and feel human scaled (and not just designed to move cars around). It's not perfect, but to me it holds a lot more appeal.

Your description of NoVA could just as easily describe numerous parts of Maryland

Some, but I was referring specifically I MoCo close to DC, which a PP described as "seedy" and very inferior to NoVa, other than Bethesda. Yet I know tons of people in places like Takoma Park, Kensington, Forest Glen, and Rockville that are more charming, connected, and pleasant than the vast majority of NoVA. I get some people move to NoVA to get away from people and that's fine -- to each their own. But many people want to live in a walkable neighborhood that has a good community vibe. It's really hard to find in VA. MD isn't "seedy" just because it does -- these are highly desirable qualities.

There are similar walkable and very Community oriented neighborhoods in Nova. And they're probably safer too

List them. Always looking to add more walkable, community-oriented neighborhoods to my lists.

But the only ones I know of in NoVA are Del Ray, Old Town Alexandria, Clarendon, and Rosslyn. And they are all surrounded by extremely not walkable or community oriented areas. Whereas there is just a lot more density, public transit, connectivity, and walkability in close-in MoCo. There are also negative things about close in MoCo, but I think it has NoVa beat on walkability, largely because of when it was developed. NoVA is extremely car centric.

Strange how every post in this thread makes MD = MoCo = Bethesda/CC. As if that's the only redeeming part of Maryland

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Appreciation rates are similar, although Virginia has slightly outpaced.

Let me just say though that Maryland has miles and miles of just horribly seedy and ugly areas from the Potomac river to Silver Spring, and then Chevy Chase and Bethesda. So it's a lot of poor, and some very, very rich. Virginia has vast swaths of decent upper middle class suburbs. I think in the end the Maryland side has turned into essentially a California like environment.

I don't get this. NoVA is full of these charmless commercial strips with a bunch of generic big box stores and fast food places lining a wide road with limited pedestrian infrastructure, surrounded by poorly constructed townhomes and single family homes. Yes there are some more charming areas (Old Town, Falls Church) and thee are neighborhoods with houses that have character (though these are rapidly being bought up and converted to hideous 5 bedroom monstrosities in that weird faux-farmhouse style that don't fit the lot). And you do have some urbanism in Ballston/Courthouse/Rosslyn. But by and large, VA is a bunch of "stroads" (look it up) and Targets with overpriced, poorly-built new builds. It's convenient, but sort of depressing.

MD does have some seedy areas but there are tons of neighborhoods in MoCo outside the super expensive parts that have charm, local business, community gathering places, varied housing stock, real sidewalks, and feel human scaled (and not just designed to move cars around). It's not perfect, but to me it holds a lot more appeal.

Your description of NoVA could just as easily describe numerous parts of Maryland

Some, but I was referring specifically I MoCo close to DC, which a PP described as "seedy" and very inferior to NoVa, other than Bethesda. Yet I know tons of people in places like Takoma Park, Kensington, Forest Glen, and Rockville that are more charming, connected, and pleasant than the vast majority of NoVA. I get some people move to NoVA to get away from people and that's fine -- to each their own. But many people want to live in a walkable neighborhood that has a good community vibe. It's really hard to find in VA. MD isn't "seedy" just because it does -- these are highly desirable qualities.

There are similar walkable and very Community oriented neighborhoods in Nova. And they're probably safer too

List them. Always looking to add more walkable, community-oriented neighborhoods to my lists.

But the only ones I know of in NoVA are Del Ray, Old Town Alexandria, Clarendon, and Rosslyn. And they are all surrounded by extremely not walkable or community oriented areas. Whereas there is just a lot more density, public transit, connectivity, and walkability in close-in MoCo. There are also negative things about close in MoCo, but I think it has NoVa beat on walkability, largely because of when it was developed. NoVA is extremely car centric.

Strange how every post in this thread makes MD = MoCo = Bethesda/CC. As if that's the only redeeming part of Maryland

I guess I missed the part of this thread where the people pumping nova discussed the merits of places like Woodbridge, south Arlington, and the 98% of Alexandria that is not del ray. Can you point out those posts to me?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Appreciation rates are similar, although Virginia has slightly outpaced.

Let me just say though that Maryland has miles and miles of just horribly seedy and ugly areas from the Potomac river to Silver Spring, and then Chevy Chase and Bethesda. So it's a lot of poor, and some very, very rich. Virginia has vast swaths of decent upper middle class suburbs. I think in the end the Maryland side has turned into essentially a California like environment.

I don't get this. NoVA is full of these charmless commercial strips with a bunch of generic big box stores and fast food places lining a wide road with limited pedestrian infrastructure, surrounded by poorly constructed townhomes and single family homes. Yes there are some more charming areas (Old Town, Falls Church) and thee are neighborhoods with houses that have character (though these are rapidly being bought up and converted to hideous 5 bedroom monstrosities in that weird faux-farmhouse style that don't fit the lot). And you do have some urbanism in Ballston/Courthouse/Rosslyn. But by and large, VA is a bunch of "stroads" (look it up) and Targets with overpriced, poorly-built new builds. It's convenient, but sort of depressing.

MD does have some seedy areas but there are tons of neighborhoods in MoCo outside the super expensive parts that have charm, local business, community gathering places, varied housing stock, real sidewalks, and feel human scaled (and not just designed to move cars around). It's not perfect, but to me it holds a lot more appeal.

Your description of NoVA could just as easily describe numerous parts of Maryland

Some, but I was referring specifically I MoCo close to DC, which a PP described as "seedy" and very inferior to NoVa, other than Bethesda. Yet I know tons of people in places like Takoma Park, Kensington, Forest Glen, and Rockville that are more charming, connected, and pleasant than the vast majority of NoVA. I get some people move to NoVA to get away from people and that's fine -- to each their own. But many people want to live in a walkable neighborhood that has a good community vibe. It's really hard to find in VA. MD isn't "seedy" just because it does -- these are highly desirable qualities.

There are similar walkable and very Community oriented neighborhoods in Nova. And they're probably safer too

List them. Always looking to add more walkable, community-oriented neighborhoods to my lists.

But the only ones I know of in NoVA are Del Ray, Old Town Alexandria, Clarendon, and Rosslyn. And they are all surrounded by extremely not walkable or community oriented areas. Whereas there is just a lot more density, public transit, connectivity, and walkability in close-in MoCo. There are also negative things about close in MoCo, but I think it has NoVa beat on walkability, largely because of when it was developed. NoVA is extremely car centric.

Strange how every post in this thread makes MD = MoCo = Bethesda/CC. As if that's the only redeeming part of Maryland

I guess I missed the part of this thread where the people pumping nova discussed the merits of places like Woodbridge, south Arlington, and the 98% of Alexandria that is not del ray. Can you point out those posts to me?

Looks like you never heard of Loudon county

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Amazon. Plus all the companies in the McLean/Reston tech hub.

This

Jobs=hhi = good schools = property values up

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Amazon. Plus all the companies in the McLean/Reston tech hub.

This

Jobs=hhi = good schools = property values up

This, it's not complicated

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Appreciation rates are similar, although Virginia has slightly outpaced.

Let me just say though that Maryland has miles and miles of just horribly seedy and ugly areas from the Potomac river to Silver Spring, and then Chevy Chase and Bethesda. So it's a lot of poor, and some very, very rich. Virginia has vast swaths of decent upper middle class suburbs. I think in the end the Maryland side has turned into essentially a California like environment.

I don't get this. NoVA is full of these charmless commercial strips with a bunch of generic big box stores and fast food places lining a wide road with limited pedestrian infrastructure, surrounded by poorly constructed townhomes and single family homes. Yes there are some more charming areas (Old Town, Falls Church) and thee are neighborhoods with houses that have character (though these are rapidly being bought up and converted to hideous 5 bedroom monstrosities in that weird faux-farmhouse style that don't fit the lot). And you do have some urbanism in Ballston/Courthouse/Rosslyn. But by and large, VA is a bunch of "stroads" (look it up) and Targets with overpriced, poorly-built new builds. It's convenient, but sort of depressing.

MD does have some seedy areas but there are tons of neighborhoods in MoCo outside the super expensive parts that have charm, local business, community gathering places, varied housing stock, real sidewalks, and feel human scaled (and not just designed to move cars around). It's not perfect, but to me it holds a lot more appeal.

Your description of NoVA could just as easily describe numerous parts of Maryland

Some, but I was referring specifically I MoCo close to DC, which a PP described as "seedy" and very inferior to NoVa, other than Bethesda. Yet I know tons of people in places like Takoma Park, Kensington, Forest Glen, and Rockville that are more charming, connected, and pleasant than the vast majority of NoVA. I get some people move to NoVA to get away from people and that's fine -- to each their own. But many people want to live in a walkable neighborhood that has a good community vibe. It's really hard to find in VA. MD isn't "seedy" just because it does -- these are highly desirable qualities.

There are similar walkable and very Community oriented neighborhoods in Nova. And they're probably safer too

List them. Always looking to add more walkable, community-oriented neighborhoods to my lists.

But the only ones I know of in NoVA are Del Ray, Old Town Alexandria, Clarendon, and Rosslyn. And they are all surrounded by extremely not walkable or community oriented areas. Whereas there is just a lot more density, public transit, connectivity, and walkability in close-in MoCo. There are also negative things about close in MoCo, but I think it has NoVa beat on walkability, largely because of when it was developed. NoVA is extremely car centric.

Strange how every post in this thread makes MD = MoCo = Bethesda/CC. As if that's the only redeeming part of Maryland

I guess I missed the part of this thread where the people pumping nova discussed the merits of places like Woodbridge, south Arlington, and the 98% of Alexandria that is not del ray. Can you point out those posts to me?

South Arlington has plenty of nice neighborhoods. Aurora highlands and shirlington are both nice. And there is a lot of retail in Crystal and pentagon city.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Appreciation rates are similar, although Virginia has slightly outpaced.

Let me just say though that Maryland has miles and miles of just horribly seedy and ugly areas from the Potomac river to Silver Spring, and then Chevy Chase and Bethesda. So it's a lot of poor, and some very, very rich. Virginia has vast swaths of decent upper middle class suburbs. I think in the end the Maryland side has turned into essentially a California like environment.

I don't get this. NoVA is full of these charmless commercial strips with a bunch of generic big box stores and fast food places lining a wide road with limited pedestrian infrastructure, surrounded by poorly constructed townhomes and single family homes. Yes there are some more charming areas (Old Town, Falls Church) and thee are neighborhoods with houses that have character (though these are rapidly being bought up and converted to hideous 5 bedroom monstrosities in that weird faux-farmhouse style that don't fit the lot). And you do have some urbanism in Ballston/Courthouse/Rosslyn. But by and large, VA is a bunch of "stroads" (look it up) and Targets with overpriced, poorly-built new builds. It's convenient, but sort of depressing.

MD does have some seedy areas but there are tons of neighborhoods in MoCo outside the super expensive parts that have charm, local business, community gathering places, varied housing stock, real sidewalks, and feel human scaled (and not just designed to move cars around). It's not perfect, but to me it holds a lot more appeal.

People pay a premium to be AWAY from community gathering places, varied housing stock, public transportation, and other people, in general. It’s what makes them isolated and exclusive, and thus, more expensive with higher appreciation. Even in urban environments, more isolated = higher prices, even if it’s in the form of a doorman and locked doors. You can always go to the people if you want, but if you live with the masses, you can’t escape. Driving means fewer forced interactions with random crazies.

That's just... not accurate. As a general rule, the further a home is from other people, the cheaper it is per square foot. You can find expensive houses way out, but they will be huge. In fact a major reason people move further from cities is to be able to afford larger homes. The cost of land close in makes it prohibitively expensive to have a very large home, so they go further out where land is cheaper (because it's so far from everything convenient that people actually want, including their work, schools, parks, grocery stores, public transit, shopping, etc.).

It's true a lot of people prefer driving to public transit in the US. But where are you driving? To places with other people -- work, school, shopping, entertainment. Do you want that to take 2 hours or 30 minutes? Well that's the difference between living in Bethesda versus Front Royal, and that's why Bethesda is way more expensive. Also people in Bethesda at least have the option of taking public transit when traffic is really bad, whereas people who live further out never have that option and neither does anyone else, leading to even worse traffic.

In general, real estate gets more expensive the closer it is to a city center. That's why condos in downtown DC cost as much as large SFHs in the outer suburbs, even though most people would rather live in a SFH than a condo.

This an be true, sometimes, but it’s dependent on location land distance. It’s also irrelevant. I used to own a 2 bedroom in Logan Circle, and PER SQUARE FOOT, it was hugely expensive, but no one wealthy lived there. At the same time you can’t give away condos in Silver Spring and other “urban centers.”

Yes, if you want to pack people like rats into an area, you create a scarcity, but it’s not aspirational.

Do you see a lot of wealthy people scrambling to move to and raise their families in DC? In other areas being urbanized ? Are the wealthy running to live somewhere with “walkable neighborhoods?”

No.

Do they move OUT and away?

Yes.

Does it sever itself from mass transit, if possible?

Yes.

With the exception of NYC and a few other major cities, wealth flees density over time. Real wealth just keeps a house in the city, they don’t live there full time. However, we are talking more moderate wealth and second and third tier cities, here, so once most people “make it” they just move to the suburbs, away from the city.

If you are talking “middle class fancy” DINKs, sure. Maybe.