This isn't normal is it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP - to answer some of the questions:

Food - she is actually a very good eater. For example - breakfast was a egg, bacon, cheese sandwich. Lunch was a sandwich on a ciabatta roll with fruit. Dinner was a rice bowl with shredded beef and veggies. Lots of fruits as a snack and sometimes some carrots. No juice or soda, only water and occasionally a homemade lemonade.

Activity - she plays a sport and has practice 2 days a week plus games once on the weekends. On non-sport days she usually goes outside to shoot hoops, play with friends, bike around the neighborhood. In the summer we swim almost every day.

Showering - she says she needs to shower in the morning because her hair is so crazy. It is pretty nuts in the mornings with the way she sleeps and also having very very thick hair. Plus I think it wakes her up in the mornings.

My DH is the slowest person in the world in the mornings - usually takes him at least an hour by the time he wakes up till the time he gets downstairs. I on the other hand wake up and am downstairs in about 15 minutes. So it is hard for me to understand why it takes everybody so much time to wake up and get ready in the mornings. I am also a VERY low maintenance person so its hard for me to sympathize with DD in the mornings when she wants her hair perfect or needs to look a certain way.

I recognize this would be a big lift for your husband if he struggles in the morning, but I am no longer the first face in the morning. Our kid holds it together more for dad. There are complicated pieces to that, but it has dramatically improved mornings, which sometimes just have to be gotten through.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trust your gut on this one. I'd bring her to a psychiatrist for therapy, and also consider the neuropathy test. Girls aren't always identified with ADHD/anxiety/ASD, and this could be it. An IEP will be helpful, even though she is doing really well.

We had to take this on ourselves, since my kid wasn't doing poorly in school. But now, a few years in, we know we did the right thing.

I'm so sorry. This is really hard.

A child doesn't just get an IEP, whether they have a formal diagnosis of anxiety or ADHD or ASD. It doesn't work like that (nor should it).

OP - what would an IEP look like for a kid who tests well and does well in school?

I am also so worried that we ruined DD during covid lockdowns. She does not do well with change/unfamiliar schedules and during covid we had just had a new baby, ripped her out of her daycare and then started her in virtual kindergarten. I had very severe PPD during this time that was untreated (due to covid policies) and probably was the worst parent ever during this time. Lots of yelling, screaming, disregulated household, etc. I got treated for my PPD, my youngest started sleeping through the night and it got better but I am so worried that during this time we truly ruined DD and this is all stemming from that period of time.

Op my DD is 8 and I have so many of the same fears and regrets about lockdown. I had a different set of co-occurring challenges that I handled as well as I could, which was not good enough ( for me). I feel like I broke my daughter. Therapy has been helpful for me to contextualize, but I am still working through the guilt and sadness.

For your daughter - have you asked her what she thinks would help in the mornings? If you approach it in a calm moment and make it clear you guys are on the same team working together to figure out a better system- maybe that would help. My kid is very focused on control and tends to lose her cool ( she hits me instead of herself and doesn’t blame herself until later ) in moments of transition where she has no control. Things have gone more smoothly when she feel more in control, even if she’s doing the same thing either way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trust your gut and get the neuropsych. Pediatricians and therapists are not trained to diagnose. You know what you see.

Yes they are trained to diagnose. But a neuropsych takes 6months/year and provides zero therapy. Save the time and money and go straight to therapy.

Therapists legally cannot diagnose. Peds are generalists, developmental peds are specialists for SN.

I'd have her evaluated but I would also have her go to bed earlier as she sounds tired.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trust your gut on this one. I'd bring her to a psychiatrist for therapy, and also consider the neuropathy test. Girls aren't always identified with ADHD/anxiety/ASD, and this could be it. An IEP will be helpful, even though she is doing really well.

We had to take this on ourselves, since my kid wasn't doing poorly in school. But now, a few years in, we know we did the right thing.

I'm so sorry. This is really hard.

A child doesn't just get an IEP, whether they have a formal diagnosis of anxiety or ADHD or ASD. It doesn't work like that (nor should it).

OP - what would an IEP look like for a kid who tests well and does well in school?

I am also so worried that we ruined DD during covid lockdowns. She does not do well with change/unfamiliar schedules and during covid we had just had a new baby, ripped her out of her daycare and then started her in virtual kindergarten. I had very severe PPD during this time that was untreated (due to covid policies) and probably was the worst parent ever during this time. Lots of yelling, screaming, disregulated household, etc. I got treated for my PPD, my youngest started sleeping through the night and it got better but I am so worried that during this time we truly ruined DD and this is all stemming from that period of time.

While most of us parents have wondered whether we "ruined" our children at times, the household environment you described is highly unlikely to be the cause of whatever is going on now. The pandemic was already close to 3 years ago. Maybe the stress caused some of the underlying issues that were already there to surface, but based on what you described, it's unlikely that the household environment for a finite period of time "caused" this.

Just get the neuro psych exam. Better to have answers than trying to figure it out on your own. My DD was diagnosed with ADHD at age 7. She shares a lot of the same traits you describe with your DD: inflexibility, emotional outbursts, losing track of time/difficulty staying on task (especially when we are trying to leave the house), wanting things to be just so--esp with her hair. She was also have difficulty regulating her emotions at school but she's a good student overall. I thought she had anxiety but when we finally had her tested, she was diagnosed with ADHD which took me by surprise. I didn't realize how much emotional dysregulation is a core feature of ADHD.

All of this to say, just have her tested. If this was any other medical issue, of course you'd WANT the test to understand what is going on and how to treat it. It's the same here.

… emotional dysregulation can be a symptom of a lot of things, including, yes, instability at home and a dysfunctional parenting style. (also OP says no academic issues so ADHD is unlikely.) a neuropsych will take months/years to access. OP doesn’t have time for that and needs to find parenting support.

Of course you can have ADHD without any resulting academic issues. That can be one of the symptoms, but isn't always. There are lot of kids--especially girls--who are good students but have ADHD nonetheless. Second, you can get a test done within a few months. I know because I did it last year. OP should certainly try to find parenting support in the meantime, but why not pursue all possible avenues to get answers?

You cannot have ADHD with no ADHD symptoms!! The DSM even states that symptoms cannot come solely from oppositionality or deficiance.

They way people want to see hidden diagnoses is really misguided. These are diagnoses based on symptoms - it’s not at all like high blood pressure where you may not have symptoms.

Why are you saying there are no symptoms?? Perhaps go back and read the OP and the subsequent posts where she talks about emotional outbursts, losing track of time/taking really long to do things, inflexibility. Those could point to something else, but those are also ADHD symptoms. Doesn't mean she has it unless the other criteria are present. Academic problems can be one symptom but not every ADHD kid has poor grades. But there's one way to find out whether it's something or nothing--and that would be to get her tested by a professional. Pulling up the DSM online isn't going to cut it.

because OP wrote: “ DD has no trouble concentrating. She does great and school, comes home and immediately does her homework, has never once not studied for a test, is very organized”

OTOH OP has said repeatedly that the child is anxious and moody and having outbursts. So starting with evidence based therapy for anxiety makes sense.

Also OP is pretty clear that the child had a very difficult family situation for 3 years. That absolutely can have an impact on behavior and any competent family therapist would look to improve parenting skills.

Child sounds tired and this sounds more like a mental health issue for mom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trust your gut and get the neuropsych. Pediatricians and therapists are not trained to diagnose. You know what you see.

Yes they are trained to diagnose. But a neuropsych takes 6months/year and provides zero therapy. Save the time and money and go straight to therapy.

Therapists legally cannot diagnose. Peds are generalists, developmental peds are specialists for SN.

I'd have her evaluated but I would also have her go to bed earlier as she sounds tired.

Huh? Many therapists can diagnose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here - the reason our therapist hasn’t indicated it was ADHD is that DD has no trouble concentrating. She does great and school, comes home and immediately does her homework, has never once not studied for a test, is very organized. Not sure if that is just masking a problem or not.

Will look into the SPACE therapy.

Is she intelligent? School may just be easy - ADHD will show up more as school gets harder. When you can do your homework easily you don’t need to command much of your executive function. Then later, you hit high school and have no study skills.

This isn’t how ADHD works …

Yeah it is and it’s why many high achieving girls aren’t diagnosed

you cannot be diagnosed with a disorder if you meet literally zero of the criteria for said disorder. thank you for coming ti my ted talk.

You seem to have misunderstood the comments. OP has ruled out ADHD based on feedback from her therapist. She should revisit that when school gets harder, if issues persist or worsen, as that is when her child would start to struggle. This is true for many girls with ADHD. And for those girls, it later becomes obvious that they were only appearing “organized” because there wasn’t much to organize in the first place. Life gets more and more complex. Don’t rule out a diagnosis forever, is the point, especially one that often goes hand in hand with other diagnoses being considered.

OP literally said her child is very focused and organized with no academic issues. I’m not sure what else could convince people who see ADHD everywhere. It’s nonsensical.

There are plenty of children who appear focused and organized and are later diagnosed with ADHD. Particularly high IQ kids. It’s a good thing to be aware of and know the possibility is there. Sorry if it contradicts your pet peeve

It’s not a pet peeve - it’s just completely nonsensical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trust your gut and get the neuropsych. Pediatricians and therapists are not trained to diagnose. You know what you see.

Yes they are trained to diagnose. But a neuropsych takes 6months/year and provides zero therapy. Save the time and money and go straight to therapy.

Therapists legally cannot diagnose. Peds are generalists, developmental peds are specialists for SN.

I'd have her evaluated but I would also have her go to bed earlier as she sounds tired.

Where are you getting this? I'm a therapist, we certainly can diagnose and do. School systems and other public (tax payer funded) services require a PhD level evaluation in order to qualify for services. But a therapist can diagnose for insurance purposes. The law has nothing to do with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trust your gut and get the neuropsych. Pediatricians and therapists are not trained to diagnose. You know what you see.

Yes they are trained to diagnose. But a neuropsych takes 6months/year and provides zero therapy. Save the time and money and go straight to therapy.

Therapists legally cannot diagnose. Peds are generalists, developmental peds are specialists for SN.

I'd have her evaluated but I would also have her go to bed earlier as she sounds tired.

Where are you getting this? I'm a therapist, we certainly can diagnose and do. School systems and other public (tax payer funded) services require a PhD level evaluation in order to qualify for services. But a therapist can diagnose for insurance purposes. The law has nothing to do with it.

This is probably coming from the area obsession with a “full neuropsych” being the first thing you have to do for any childhood issues. There’s a strong belief in covert DSM diagnoses that can only be “teased out” by paying $5000 (or is it $7000 now?) to the right clinical specialist. Then you get your kid unlimited time on tests and medicate, medicate, medicate.

[Anonymous]

you should post on the SN board and yes they will tell you she has signs of being on the spectrum and that your ped is not an expert and you need a neuropsych.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trust your gut and get the neuropsych. Pediatricians and therapists are not trained to diagnose. You know what you see.

Yes they are trained to diagnose. But a neuropsych takes 6months/year and provides zero therapy. Save the time and money and go straight to therapy.

Therapists legally cannot diagnose. Peds are generalists, developmental peds are specialists for SN.

I'd have her evaluated but I would also have her go to bed earlier as she sounds tired.

Where are you getting this? I'm a therapist, we certainly can diagnose and do. School systems and other public (tax payer funded) services require a PhD level evaluation in order to qualify for services. But a therapist can diagnose for insurance purposes. The law has nothing to do with it.

This is probably coming from the area obsession with a “full neuropsych” being the first thing you have to do for any childhood issues. There’s a strong belief in covert DSM diagnoses that can only be “teased out” by paying $5000 (or is it $7000 now?) to the right clinical specialist. Then you get your kid unlimited time on tests and medicate, medicate, medicate.

yes i remarked on the sn board recently that I am so sick of this idea of 'teasing out' autism and got flagged and deleted. people do NOT like this pov over there. i say this as the mom of a kid with asd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trust your gut and get the neuropsych. Pediatricians and therapists are not trained to diagnose. You know what you see.

Yes they are trained to diagnose. But a neuropsych takes 6months/year and provides zero therapy. Save the time and money and go straight to therapy.

Therapists legally cannot diagnose. Peds are generalists, developmental peds are specialists for SN.

I'd have her evaluated but I would also have her go to bed earlier as she sounds tired.

Where are you getting this? I'm a therapist, we certainly can diagnose and do. School systems and other public (tax payer funded) services require a PhD level evaluation in order to qualify for services. But a therapist can diagnose for insurance purposes. The law has nothing to do with it.

This is probably coming from the area obsession with a “full neuropsych” being the first thing you have to do for any childhood issues. There’s a strong belief in covert DSM diagnoses that can only be “teased out” by paying $5000 (or is it $7000 now?) to the right clinical specialist. Then you get your kid unlimited time on tests and medicate, medicate, medicate.

yes i remarked on the sn board recently that I am so sick of this idea of 'teasing out' autism and got flagged and deleted. people do NOT like this pov over there. i say this as the mom of a kid with asd.

we’re twins!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here - the reason our therapist hasn’t indicated it was ADHD is that DD has no trouble concentrating. She does great and school, comes home and immediately does her homework, has never once not studied for a test, is very organized. Not sure if that is just masking a problem or not.

Will look into the SPACE therapy.

Is she intelligent? School may just be easy - ADHD will show up more as school gets harder. When you can do your homework easily you don’t need to command much of your executive function. Then later, you hit high school and have no study skills.

This isn’t how ADHD works …

Yeah it is and it’s why many high achieving girls aren’t diagnosed

you cannot be diagnosed with a disorder if you meet literally zero of the criteria for said disorder. thank you for coming ti my ted talk.

You seem to have misunderstood the comments. OP has ruled out ADHD based on feedback from her therapist. She should revisit that when school gets harder, if issues persist or worsen, as that is when her child would start to struggle. This is true for many girls with ADHD. And for those girls, it later becomes obvious that they were only appearing “organized” because there wasn’t much to organize in the first place. Life gets more and more complex. Don’t rule out a diagnosis forever, is the point, especially one that often goes hand in hand with other diagnoses being considered.

OP literally said her child is very focused and organized with no academic issues. I’m not sure what else could convince people who see ADHD everywhere. It’s nonsensical.

There are plenty of children who appear focused and organized and are later diagnosed with ADHD. Particularly high IQ kids. It’s a good thing to be aware of and know the possibility is there. Sorry if it contradicts your pet peeve

It’s not a pet peeve - it’s just completely nonsensical.

NP. This is true. I've seen it described as twice exceptional.

But OP, try getting your daughter up earlier so she has time to fully wake up. Also, maybe a hair appointment for her hair type and have the stylist give her advice? I'm the only curly head kid in my family (I'm 47 now), and even though my mom was a hair dresser, I was on my own trying to figure out my hair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here - the reason our therapist hasn’t indicated it was ADHD is that DD has no trouble concentrating. She does great and school, comes home and immediately does her homework, has never once not studied for a test, is very organized. Not sure if that is just masking a problem or not.

Will look into the SPACE therapy.

Is she intelligent? School may just be easy - ADHD will show up more as school gets harder. When you can do your homework easily you don’t need to command much of your executive function. Then later, you hit high school and have no study skills.

This isn’t how ADHD works …

Yeah it is and it’s why many high achieving girls aren’t diagnosed

you cannot be diagnosed with a disorder if you meet literally zero of the criteria for said disorder. thank you for coming ti my ted talk.

You seem to have misunderstood the comments. OP has ruled out ADHD based on feedback from her therapist. She should revisit that when school gets harder, if issues persist or worsen, as that is when her child would start to struggle. This is true for many girls with ADHD. And for those girls, it later becomes obvious that they were only appearing “organized” because there wasn’t much to organize in the first place. Life gets more and more complex. Don’t rule out a diagnosis forever, is the point, especially one that often goes hand in hand with other diagnoses being considered.

OP literally said her child is very focused and organized with no academic issues. I’m not sure what else could convince people who see ADHD everywhere. It’s nonsensical.

There are plenty of children who appear focused and organized and are later diagnosed with ADHD. Particularly high IQ kids. It’s a good thing to be aware of and know the possibility is there. Sorry if it contradicts your pet peeve

It’s not a pet peeve - it’s just completely nonsensical.

NP. This is true. I've seen it described as twice exceptional.

But OP, try getting your daughter up earlier so she has time to fully wake up. Also, maybe a hair appointment for her hair type and have the stylist give her advice? I'm the only curly head kid in my family (I'm 47 now), and even though my mom was a hair dresser, I was on my own trying to figure out my hair.

Yes 2E is a thing. No, ADHD is not at all likely in a kid that gets good grades, no complaints from school about behavior, and whose mother describes them as “organized and focused” and self-managing school work.

[Anonymous]

For the hair/shower thing - try a satin/silk lined sleep bonnet. My curly headed daughter just started using one and it makes a world of difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here - the reason our therapist hasn’t indicated it was ADHD is that DD has no trouble concentrating. She does great and school, comes home and immediately does her homework, has never once not studied for a test, is very organized. Not sure if that is just masking a problem or not.

Will look into the SPACE therapy.

Is she intelligent? School may just be easy - ADHD will show up more as school gets harder. When you can do your homework easily you don’t need to command much of your executive function. Then later, you hit high school and have no study skills.

This isn’t how ADHD works …

Yeah it is and it’s why many high achieving girls aren’t diagnosed

you cannot be diagnosed with a disorder if you meet literally zero of the criteria for said disorder. thank you for coming ti my ted talk.

You seem to have misunderstood the comments. OP has ruled out ADHD based on feedback from her therapist. She should revisit that when school gets harder, if issues persist or worsen, as that is when her child would start to struggle. This is true for many girls with ADHD. And for those girls, it later becomes obvious that they were only appearing “organized” because there wasn’t much to organize in the first place. Life gets more and more complex. Don’t rule out a diagnosis forever, is the point, especially one that often goes hand in hand with other diagnoses being considered.

OP literally said her child is very focused and organized with no academic issues. I’m not sure what else could convince people who see ADHD everywhere. It’s nonsensical.

There are plenty of children who appear focused and organized and are later diagnosed with ADHD. Particularly high IQ kids. It’s a good thing to be aware of and know the possibility is there. Sorry if it contradicts your pet peeve

It’s not a pet peeve - it’s just completely nonsensical.

NP. This is true. I've seen it described as twice exceptional.

But OP, try getting your daughter up earlier so she has time to fully wake up. Also, maybe a hair appointment for her hair type and have the stylist give her advice? I'm the only curly head kid in my family (I'm 47 now), and even though my mom was a hair dresser, I was on my own trying to figure out my hair.

Yes 2E is a thing. No, ADHD is not at all likely in a kid that gets good grades, no complaints from school about behavior, and whose mother describes them as “organized and focused” and self-managing school work.

Kid is 9 and female.