This isn't normal is it?

[Anonymous]

Op, I think you're getting some good advice here (and unfortunately some bad, also).

I agree with 11:12 PP who said to do as much the night before as possible. I know you said dd wants to shower in the morning for hair reasons, but maybe she can use a spray bottle to wet the hair in the am? If she absolutely has to shower in the am, then sounds like an earlier get up time is needed.

I don't think the virtual therapy is helping, either. It's good you're pursuing in person instead.

I also think you should make an appointment for a neuropysch consultation. This doesn't mean she will have a neuropysch done, it's a consultation to see if it's indicated. In my experience, it's by the same dr who would do the eval. My dd, who is 9, had an eval years ago when she was dx with asd. I actually had a consult last month for another one, because she is exhibiting signs of anxiety. We actually decided not to and to instead see a developmental behavorial pediatrician (soon). So in your case, I'd make an appt for the neuropysch so you can get the consultation, and see if dr thinks it's actually needed. Maybe it is, or maybe another kind of eval is indicated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DD is 9 and has been in virtual therapy every other week for the past 3 years. She has anxiety and is prone to outbursts when things are not going her way. I have repeatedly asked her pediatrician and therapist if they think she has signs of ADHD, autism, any other neurocognitive disabilities and they all say no. I would like to get a neuropsych evaluations but my DH doesn't think she needs it because her pediatrician and therapist have not recommended it.

Example of her outbursts - she is very slow in the mornings. We need to leave at 7:30am for school. I woke her up at 6:45am this morning and she went into the shower. She didn't get out of the shower until 7:10am and the needed to change and eat. Usually this is fine but this morning her hair "wasn't perfect" and she kept trying to get it smoothed out and getting more and more upset. It culminated with her downstairs yelling that I couldn't get her hair perfect, screaming on the floor, hitting her head and saying she was stupid and an idiot.

I try my hardest not to react but of course I am human as well. I have 2 other kids I need to get up and out the door and I didn't want them to be late for school. I always feel like I am trying to mitigate any possible obstacles in her life so she doesn't have huge emotional breakdowns, which I know isn't the best course of action. I am at a loss as to what to do. She is very well behaved at school, never has this type of reaction, her teachers all tell me she is polite, helpful and does her work. Her test scores are high and her grades are always very good. She is exhausting and makes if difficult for me to parent. I did not want to start my Monday this way and has made the beginning of the week miserable for everyone in the house.

She needs to get up earlier in the morning.

[Anonymous]

Op here - so we have been waking up dd 30 mins earlier and that has definitely helped.

The morning routine was just an example of things that set her off. She is also in general very negative about herself. She constantly says she is stupid or she hates herself. But when I ask why she can’t articulate it. And she mostly does it with me. Rarely with anybody else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a little surprised at the responses here. It seems everyone, including you OP, is trying to find some diagnosis. She is fine usually but has random outbursts, so what? you are freaking out because she gets up at 6:45 and can't get out of the shower by 7:10?? i'm sorry but that is an aggressive schedule. No way wants to wake up and be go go go from the minute they open their eyes. Some people might be ok with this but many are not and clearly your daughter has the kind of temperament where she needs to transition and take her time to wake up. Stop labeling her based on that frustration. Wake her up earlier, go to bed earlier, and/or shower at night. Your schedule is the problem.

+1000

NP and I also agree with this. And three years of therapy beginning at age 6 with no apparent progress sounds like a terrible therapist. I would stop this therapist and find someone else, in person.

I also have a kid who gets very frustrated and anxious about her hair (and has been in therapy for anxiety). We actually took her for an appt with the hair stylist for what we called “hair therapy.” The stylist also listened to her concerns, shared what was easily tamed and what wasn't, and recommended some products. It was awesome and transformative for her, to feel someone who knew something about this was taking her seriously and offering advice.

You could certainly get a neuropsych if you like but I agree what you’re describing isn’t out of the ordinary. But three years of continuous therapy at this age is a lot, so maybe there’s more going on.

[Anonymous]

As someone who had anxiety all my life including during childhood, taking medication changed my life. I did not seek treatment for this until I was an adult ( I’m in my 40s) and the first course of action was doing therapy. I could not use the tools from Therapy at all on their own. Anxiety was too high to even be able to fathom them. It was just not possible to even try the techniques from therapy.

Once the mediation started to work, I could seek those strategies and think reasonably. I don’t know if this is the right course of action for your child, but just sharing my experience that sometimes the medication needs to start working in order to understand and even be able to approach the therapy techniques

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - I feel like all the therapy hasn't done anything. When she starts to spiral she refuses to do any of the techniques that she has been taught. When she talks calmly with her therapist she knows all the right things to say, how to do the techniques and her therapist always says she is doing great.

She is just such a moody, anxious child and I know that my reaction makes it worse but there is just so much I can take before I lose it. It makes me hate being a parent.

While there may be other issues (and I would recommend going forward with a meeting with a psychologist for an evaluation), what you are describing sounds like anxiety.

When someone has severe anxiety and reaches a crunch point, rationality goes out the window and they may be unable to access appropriate techniques - especially when they are young. This will get better as she gets older and matures (although it may/will get worse during puberty). For now, firm guidelines and allowing her to experience misses (going to school with messy hair or missing breakfast) will get her where she needs to go (both physically and metaphorically - experiencing consequences and realizing that it isn't dire is how people, including anxious people, learn resilience).

OP - yes I definitely think she has anxiety. My husband does as well. I just am not sure if therapy is flushing money down the toilet or if we should keep doing it. I would like her to try medication but DH is against and I am not really even sure what kind of medication would help a 9 year old. Should we do more intensive therapy? In patient? More times a week?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trust your gut and get the neuropsych. Pediatricians and therapists are not trained to diagnose. You know what you see.

Yes they are trained to diagnose. But a neuropsych takes 6months/year and provides zero therapy. Save the time and money and go straight to therapy.

Typically they aren’t which is why specialists exist. Especially for kids who may have multiple disabilities then it can be harder to diagnose. At a minimum it sounds like this therapist may not be helping address the challenges she has. Remember to think about trends vs a bad day or two. I would request an evaluation through her school (put it in writing to the teacher, principal and case manager/special education director).

[Anonymous]

you need a neuropsych. We started testing our daughter at age three, redoing it roughly every 3 years which not uncommon. We did it five times up to high school entry and only then got the correct diagnosis: autism (then aspergers); ADHD; Anxiety disorder. She recently did the test again at age 30 and learned that the high school and college aged tests were correct. The only addition at age 30 was depression.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - I feel like all the therapy hasn't done anything. When she starts to spiral she refuses to do any of the techniques that she has been taught. When she talks calmly with her therapist she knows all the right things to say, how to do the techniques and her therapist always says she is doing great.

She is just such a moody, anxious child and I know that my reaction makes it worse but there is just so much I can take before I lose it. It makes me hate being a parent.

While there may be other issues (and I would recommend going forward with a meeting with a psychologist for an evaluation), what you are describing sounds like anxiety.

When someone has severe anxiety and reaches a crunch point, rationality goes out the window and they may be unable to access appropriate techniques - especially when they are young. This will get better as she gets older and matures (although it may/will get worse during puberty). For now, firm guidelines and allowing her to experience misses (going to school with messy hair or missing breakfast) will get her where she needs to go (both physically and metaphorically - experiencing consequences and realizing that it isn't dire is how people, including anxious people, learn resilience).

OP - yes I definitely think she has anxiety. My husband does as well. I just am not sure if therapy is flushing money down the toilet or if we should keep doing it. I would like her to try medication but DH is against and I am not really even sure what kind of medication would help a 9 year old. Should we do more intensive therapy? In patient? More times a week?

Your husband needs to get over his medication issues and you need to discuss options with a therapist. It is ludicrous to be where you are and not be discussing medication options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - I feel like all the therapy hasn't done anything. When she starts to spiral she refuses to do any of the techniques that she has been taught. When she talks calmly with her therapist she knows all the right things to say, how to do the techniques and her therapist always says she is doing great.

She is just such a moody, anxious child and I know that my reaction makes it worse but there is just so much I can take before I lose it. It makes me hate being a parent.

While there may be other issues (and I would recommend going forward with a meeting with a psychologist for an evaluation), what you are describing sounds like anxiety.

When someone has severe anxiety and reaches a crunch point, rationality goes out the window and they may be unable to access appropriate techniques - especially when they are young. This will get better as she gets older and matures (although it may/will get worse during puberty). For now, firm guidelines and allowing her to experience misses (going to school with messy hair or missing breakfast) will get her where she needs to go (both physically and metaphorically - experiencing consequences and realizing that it isn't dire is how people, including anxious people, learn resilience).

OP - yes I definitely think she has anxiety. My husband does as well. I just am not sure if therapy is flushing money down the toilet or if we should keep doing it. I would like her to try medication but DH is against and I am not really even sure what kind of medication would help a 9 year old. Should we do more intensive therapy? In patient? More times a week?

No OP - do not continue on a path that isn’t working or go straight to heavy duty medication. There is specific therapy for child anxiety that focuses on parental reactions called SPACE. Start there. There may be more going on than anxiety but you need to start with evidence based therapies.

FYI, there are options beyond “heavy duty medication.” You have many options to start with light doses of medication that can help with the fringe behavior. No one should suggest you fully sedate your child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - I feel like all the therapy hasn't done anything. When she starts to spiral she refuses to do any of the techniques that she has been taught. When she talks calmly with her therapist she knows all the right things to say, how to do the techniques and her therapist always says she is doing great.

She is just such a moody, anxious child and I know that my reaction makes it worse but there is just so much I can take before I lose it. It makes me hate being a parent.

While there may be other issues (and I would recommend going forward with a meeting with a psychologist for an evaluation), what you are describing sounds like anxiety.

When someone has severe anxiety and reaches a crunch point, rationality goes out the window and they may be unable to access appropriate techniques - especially when they are young. This will get better as she gets older and matures (although it may/will get worse during puberty). For now, firm guidelines and allowing her to experience misses (going to school with messy hair or missing breakfast) will get her where she needs to go (both physically and metaphorically - experiencing consequences and realizing that it isn't dire is how people, including anxious people, learn resilience).

OP - yes I definitely think she has anxiety. My husband does as well. I just am not sure if therapy is flushing money down the toilet or if we should keep doing it. I would like her to try medication but DH is against and I am not really even sure what kind of medication would help a 9 year old. Should we do more intensive therapy? In patient? More times a week?

Your husband needs to get over his medication issues and you need to discuss options with a therapist. It is ludicrous to be where you are and not be discussing medication options.

+100 - it is totally appropriate given what you are dealing with and her age.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here - so we have been waking up dd 30 mins earlier and that has definitely helped.

The morning routine was just an example of things that set her off. She is also in general very negative about herself. She constantly says she is stupid or she hates herself. But when I ask why she can’t articulate it. And she mostly does it with me. Rarely with anybody else.

SPACE. You need SPACE.