Where do you draw the line between upper middle class and upper class?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Middle class is the middle. So pick your bell curve.

Bottom is lowest 10%? 20%?

Upper class is the top 10% or 205

Middle is the remainder.

It doesn't matter how you feel. Or if you choose to drive you 20 year old Honda civic. It is where you fall on the bell curve.

0-1% is the barest level of poverty. I guess you could say low class but that term seems inappropriate. Impoverished is probably better.

1-99 is middle class. Within that, you have lower middle class, middle class, and upper middle class. I'd say LMC is probably 1-5%, middle class is 6-95% and UMC is 96-99%.

99-100% is upper class.

Thisis accurate in DCUMland. Except that would say middle goes to 99.999 and upper class is the .001 percent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Upper class doesnt have to work. They can live on dividends and businesses.

This is nothing more than a definition of convenience so that you can sit there and claim that you are a humble denizen of the middle class despite earning a million plus per year because it takes a job to be able to continue to afford a principle home worth 3+ million and at least 1 vacation home worth more than a million and 3 to 5 luxury vacations every year. And yes, I understand you only get rooms at the four Seasons and not suites. And yes, I understand you don't have a private plane or a personal chef. You're still rich.

Why are you so angry about this? Being rich and being upper class aren't the same thing. Upper class is inherited wealth, not someone who worked their way up and now makes $1M in big law.

I'm not saying we live a humble lifestyle with a HHI of $500K but we also can't afford to not work. We didn't get any money from our parents or other relatives. No trusts or anything. We both work every day. We are not upper class.

No it is not. Upper class is not inherited wealth. That is bunk. It is in fact the big law partner. Most dont make a million but a lot more. Maybe not the first year. But by the 8th year yes they are upper class. Idle rich inherit money and may be upper class. But it is an incomce and assets test. Nothing more. 500k is not upper class I agree. But 1-2 million a year with no end in sight is upper class. Diving line is somewhere just above you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Middle class is the middle. So pick your bell curve.

Bottom is lowest 10%? 20%?

Upper class is the top 10% or 205

Middle is the remainder.

It doesn't matter how you feel. Or if you choose to drive you 20 year old Honda civic. It is where you fall on the bell curve.

It’s not a bell curve though. It’s more like a sharp slope up. 95 (or something close) % of families are wt the base of the slope. It then shoots up significantly for the UC. Parsing out where someone making 200k vs 400k falls is negligible especially since incomes aren’t always stagnant (many go up and down at various points) and COL is a factor. It feels like “everyone” is MC because we’re all in the shallow end of the pool (whether at 2 ft or 3 ft) and the rich are off in the 20 ft deep end.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/line-between-middle-class-upper-110130857.html

Varies by state.

I love that you provided actual data.

Short version - upper middle class ends around 200k in DC/MD/VA (175 in Virginia as whole, NoVa would probably be closer to 200k)

Oh yay! DH and I with our 290k HHI from 2 fed salaries and our 2,300 sq ft 1940s rambler, and 529s that will hopefully cover state schools someday are upper class! I’m so excited to hear this. We are basically the same as the people who own second homes in Nantucket and spend their breaks aboard yachts.

Yes, you are upper class. Sorry if that offends you. Does that mean you are obscenely wealthy? Not it does not. But 95 percent of households in the US make less than yours does. I don't know how much more plainly it can be put. You (like me in my similar circumstances) are upper class.

Yeah but the wage gap between the 95% and the 50% is multitudes closer than the 95% and 1%.

Someone making 300k/year is living a much closer lifestyle compared to a family making 125k/year than a family making $5M year with tons of investments etc. Also the family making 300k could become the family making 125k through some unfortunate circumstances. The 300k family is highly unlikely to ever make anywhere near the 1%.

300k is not that far from the 1%.

"According to the US Census Bureau's 2020 Current Population Survey, the percentage of American households with incomes of $300,000 or more is about 3.8%. This means that approximately 3.8% of American households have an annual income of at least $300,000 before taxes and other deductions.""

And 125K? That's about the 75th percentile.

[Anonymous]

I met my first Wealthy friend when I was 20. Very low key Dad worked in a supermarket. Went to my commuter blue collar school and had a part time job.

He mentioned in conversation his Dad was selling a investment home in the Hamptons that was empty and we said hey can we all go for weekend bring sleeping bags. We knew no furniture. Dad says yes.

We all drive out was a gated complex being built and model home done and a big pool open so buyers could see it.

We all jump in pool after going out at midnight and guards run over we are about to scramble when guards recognize my friend ands start apologizing and said dont tell you Dad.

There was like 32 single family homes being built and his Dad owned them all he was the developer and his Supermarket Job. Well the 50 store supermarket chain he owned it. He was also at his Dads Friends Billy Joel house for a BBQ the weekend before.

we then did get invited to his house ones cand Billy Joel and Christy Brinkley was their next door neighbors. Him and his sister went to my commuter school.

His Dad and Mom were regular people. Never would know.

So rich lifestyle can be similar.

[Anonymous]

I bet none of you would proudly crow that your child with the 98% average in school is solidly middle of the pack.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's how I see it.

60% or so America is the working class.

80th percentile is you're kind of the meeting point of solidly middle class and the upper middle class.

90th percentile is the upper middle class.

95th percentile is meeting point between upper middle class and wealthy.

And 99th percentile is meeting point the "working rich" and the very rich.

So middle means 80th%? Makes sense.

Middle is the middle point of how wealth is distributed (and I’d even take out Uber rich outliers like Elon Musk and celebrities). So on a scale of completely broke to making like $2M/year there will be a huge cluster between $150-400k incomes (with some variation in assets and COL) but a lot of people fall on this range.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I bet none of you would proudly crow that your child with the 98% average in school is solidly middle of the pack.

Lol. That's what the majority of posts on the AAP forum are devoted to. Taking down any parent who brags about a mere 98th percentile score. Solidly mid IQ.

[Anonymous]

Class is more about lifestyle than income and assets. Most places in the US, we would have a more upper class lifestyle, but we live close to DC and so we’re UMC.

UMC - we own our home and drive well maintained, reliable cars. We go on 1-2 vacations a year and pay for travel sports and music lessons for kids in local public schools. We own stocks and we save money for retirement and college. We work in white-collar knowledge based jobs. We have investments and will inherit money, but we will need to work full time until a traditional retirement age of 65.

Upper class is like UMC but has 2 or more of the following:
kids in private school
2nd home
2+ vacations, some international or luxury accommodations
Doesn’t need to work a W-2 job or is able to work a passion job
Home is professionally decorated and/or landscaped
Makes most decisions based on personal preferences instead of cost/value/ROI

Middle class is like UMC except instead of being a relaxing, enjoyable lifestyle they have to budget carefully to make it all work. They make choices between retirement and college saving. They may have to choose between expensive extracurriculars for the kids and vacations. If they don’t make sacrifices or trade offs, they are living in debt or can never retire.

[Anonymous]

Class and wealth are related but not the same thing.

You can grow up very low income and become UMC easily by accumulating and growing wealth. But no matter how much money you make, the transition to UC is a lot harder, even from UMC, because so much of it is cultural experience shared from birth on.

There is no obvious line, no obvious amount of wealth that makes one UC vs UMC. Because, like I said, culture (from birth) plays a role here. It's kind of like what SCOTUS says about porn -- you just know it when you see it. I know UC v UMC people because my grandparents were UC. This applies to the US; I wouldn't have a clue elsewhere in the world. Because again -- it's cultural.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Upper class you stay in the ritz or equivalent on vacations. UMC, you're staying at the JW Marriott or maybe a nice Westin. Upper class you regularly fly business or first class on your European vacation. UMC you're going to Europe but you're flying coach (maybe you cc points will upgrade you if you're lucky). Upper class you have a vacation home someplace nice like the hamptons or its equivalent. UMC, you vacation at the hamptons, but you stay in a nice air bnb.
Upper class-you bought your house in the nicest neighborhood that gets you into the best public schools, but your kid is going to private. UMC, you live near the upper class neighborhood and are zoned for the same great public schools, but private would be a stretch and if you swing for private, you're going to be staying the Courtyard Marriott on your local vacays from now on.

Nope. All this is still UMC. Upper class is private jets, yachts, and the ability to spend money at Chanel if you want.

Lol. No. This is so UMC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/line-between-middle-class-upper-110130857.html

Varies by state.

I love that you provided actual data.

Short version - upper middle class ends around 200k in DC/MD/VA (175 in Virginia as whole, NoVa would probably be closer to 200k)

Oh yay! DH and I with our 290k HHI from 2 fed salaries and our 2,300 sq ft 1940s rambler, and 529s that will hopefully cover state schools someday are upper class! I’m so excited to hear this. We are basically the same as the people who own second homes in Nantucket and spend their breaks aboard yachts.

Yes, you are upper class. Sorry if that offends you. Does that mean you are obscenely wealthy? Not it does not. But 95 percent of households in the US make less than yours does. I don't know how much more plainly it can be put. You (like me in my similar circumstances) are upper class.

Yeah but the wage gap between the 95% and the 50% is multitudes closer than the 95% and 1%.

Someone making 300k/year is living a much closer lifestyle compared to a family making 125k/year than a family making $5M year with tons of investments etc. Also the family making 300k could become the family making 125k through some unfortunate circumstances. The 300k family is highly unlikely to ever make anywhere near the 1%.

300k is not that far from the 1%.

"According to the US Census Bureau's 2020 Current Population Survey, the percentage of American households with incomes of $300,000 or more is about 3.8%. This means that approximately 3.8% of American households have an annual income of at least $300,000 before taxes and other deductions.""

And 125K? That's about the 75th percentile.

Well when you think $125K is the 50th percentile, I guess it's easier to convince yourself that the $300K households is just a bit better off than average.

[Anonymous]

You guys are hilariously drugged on your quest for mediocrity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Upper class you stay in the ritz or equivalent on vacations. UMC, you're staying at the JW Marriott or maybe a nice Westin. Upper class you regularly fly business or first class on your European vacation. UMC you're going to Europe but you're flying coach (maybe you cc points will upgrade you if you're lucky). Upper class you have a vacation home someplace nice like the hamptons or its equivalent. UMC, you vacation at the hamptons, but you stay in a nice air bnb.
Upper class-you bought your house in the nicest neighborhood that gets you into the best public schools, but your kid is going to private. UMC, you live near the upper class neighborhood and are zoned for the same great public schools, but private would be a stretch and if you swing for private, you're going to be staying the Courtyard Marriott on your local vacays from now on.

Nope. All this is still UMC. Upper class is private jets, yachts, and the ability to spend money at Chanel if you want.

People making $1mil can do all that, if they want to.

We have a $2m+ HHI and we do not fly on private jets and own yachts. We only recently started flying business class. We do stay at nice hotels.

I know we are technically rich but we feel very UMC. We are just rich enough to know not rich we are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Upper class you stay in the ritz or equivalent on vacations. UMC, you're staying at the JW Marriott or maybe a nice Westin. Upper class you regularly fly business or first class on your European vacation. UMC you're going to Europe but you're flying coach (maybe you cc points will upgrade you if you're lucky). Upper class you have a vacation home someplace nice like the hamptons or its equivalent. UMC, you vacation at the hamptons, but you stay in a nice air bnb.
Upper class-you bought your house in the nicest neighborhood that gets you into the best public schools, but your kid is going to private. UMC, you live near the upper class neighborhood and are zoned for the same great public schools, but private would be a stretch and if you swing for private, you're going to be staying the Courtyard Marriott on your local vacays from now on.

Nope. All this is still UMC. Upper class is private jets, yachts, and the ability to spend money at Chanel if you want.

People making $1mil can do all that, if they want to.

We have a $2m+ HHI and we do not fly on private jets and own yachts. We only recently started flying business class. We do stay at nice hotels.

I know we are technically rich but we feel very UMC. We are just rich enough to know not rich we are.

Some nice trolling there.