Sent home from summer camp

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:A camp nurse can be an LPN or an RN.
LPN’s have a one year training program.
They might not have much training in mental health.
A medical doctor and a counselor/clinician are able to make the determination if someone was joking or not.


Well apparently the counselor had enough concern to make recommendations for a frequent check in among other things that were not shared. That’s not nothing.


It is a pretty simple one to implement that doesn’t require extra staff or training. This is an overnight camp where they should already be doing check- ins just to ensure that all campers are present.


Frequent check in isn’t an easy strategy because it comes with the possibility that you will need to do something with the information from the check in. So, in this case, if the untrained teenager counselor checks in and the kid has new scratches, or reports that they are overwhelmed, what is the counselor going to do, and who will take on the counselor’s responsibility while the counselor is focused on one kid?

This is particularly true when a kid isn’t a reliable reporter. This kid apparently didn’t tell her counselor the truth when the counselor checked in about the scratches, and hasn’t told her parents the truth so they need to try to guess what happened from the therapist’s notes.


With a thumbs up or down, a thumb down, the counselor could respond by asking if she needs to visit the camp nurse. Some kids are probably already frequent fliers to the nurse’s office, for a wide variety of reasons.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:A camp nurse can be an LPN or an RN.
LPN’s have a one year training program.
They might not have much training in mental health.
A medical doctor and a counselor/clinician are able to make the determination if someone was joking or not.


Well apparently the counselor had enough concern to make recommendations for a frequent check in among other things that were not shared. That’s not nothing.


It is a pretty simple one to implement that doesn’t require extra staff or training. This is an overnight camp where they should already be doing check- ins just to ensure that all campers are present.


Frequent check in isn’t an easy strategy because it comes with the possibility that you will need to do something with the information from the check in. So, in this case, if the untrained teenager counselor checks in and the kid has new scratches, or reports that they are overwhelmed, what is the counselor going to do, and who will take on the counselor’s responsibility while the counselor is focused on one kid?

This is particularly true when a kid isn’t a reliable reporter. This kid apparently didn’t tell her counselor the truth when the counselor checked in about the scratches, and hasn’t told her parents the truth so they need to try to guess what happened from the therapist’s notes.


With a thumbs up or down, a thumb down, the counselor could respond by asking if she needs to visit the camp nurse. Some kids are probably already frequent fliers to the nurse’s office, for a wide variety of reasons.


This kind of thing only works if the kid is compliant and candid. It seems like OP's DD was rude and noncompliant, or at least the camp didn't have confidence in her compliance.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:A camp nurse can be an LPN or an RN.
LPN’s have a one year training program.
They might not have much training in mental health.
A medical doctor and a counselor/clinician are able to make the determination if someone was joking or not.


Well apparently the counselor had enough concern to make recommendations for a frequent check in among other things that were not shared. That’s not nothing.


It is a pretty simple one to implement that doesn’t require extra staff or training. This is an overnight camp where they should already be doing check- ins just to ensure that all campers are present.


Frequent check in isn’t an easy strategy because it comes with the possibility that you will need to do something with the information from the check in. So, in this case, if the untrained teenager counselor checks in and the kid has new scratches, or reports that they are overwhelmed, what is the counselor going to do, and who will take on the counselor’s responsibility while the counselor is focused on one kid?

This is particularly true when a kid isn’t a reliable reporter. This kid apparently didn’t tell her counselor the truth when the counselor checked in about the scratches, and hasn’t told her parents the truth so they need to try to guess what happened from the therapist’s notes.


With a thumbs up or down, a thumb down, the counselor could respond by asking if she needs to visit the camp nurse. Some kids are probably already frequent fliers to the nurse’s office, for a wide variety of reasons.


It’s too late the camp isn’t going to implement this strategy for you no matter how easy, convenient, and effective you think it is. They are telling yiu they can’t meet your daughter’s needs and you shouldn’t feel comfortable sending her to a camp that is saying this.
Anonymous
Has anyone ever requested records from a summer camp? You can request copies of most records so it should be possible.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:I would make this a learning experience for her that actions and words have consequences. It might be a far better lesson to have learned than not at this stage in life.


This is such good advice.

I feel like you are focusing on all the other aspects of the incident when this is in the end the most important takeaway for your daughter. Learning this lesson now could prevent a worse situation in the future. In that sense it's actually a pretty low price for a major lesson learned. Try to help frame it that way for both of you and let go of your frustrations about whether or how the camp could have done things differently.
Anonymous
This is part of how one builds distress tolerance, op. Certain behaviors have unwanted consequences and if they are unwanted enough kids begin to learn to find alternate coping mechanisms.

Not that that’s why the camp said no. The camp said no because they didn’t have the resources and/or the will to do whatever they felt was needed.
Anonymous
I'm assuming all the defensive posts on this thread are coming from the OP.

As she posts more and more, I am really hoping the OP is a troll (which is rare on the SN forum). I am alarmed at how obstinate OP is being.

Her daughter had a mental health episode that the camp thought was serious enough to warrant a 911 call. Whether anxiety or suicidal thoughts, this was a mental health episode. OP is literally only concerned that the camp wouldn't let her daughter back, or won't pay a refund. Why is OP not concerned about her daughter's mental health?

This thread is really alarming, and I am genuinely concerned for OP's daughter (again, assuming OP is not a troll).
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Our daughter “B” has been going to an overnight summer camp for 3 years.
Yesterday, we got a call that the camp had called EMS for her.
They didn’t see any need to transport her to a hospital so we were called to pick her up.
We were told that she could come back if she got medical clearance which she did after meeting with a doctor and a counselor. She was happy to go back. When we got there, they told us she couldn’t stay.

Here is part of a draft of an email that I am writing in hopes of getting a refund.
It also explains more of what happened yesterday.

Email draft: Our daughter B is an amazing young person. She will have disappointments, in her life, but summer camp should never have been one of them. She was devastated that she was not allowed to return to Camp K, after we were told that she could return, if she got medical clearance. She met with a doctor and a counselor. B had made some superficial scratches on her arm. They were barely visible. We were not told exactly what she said that triggered an EMS call. B said she just answered some questions but wasn't going around talking about self harm.

I got a clue about what might have happened, after reading the report, of the counselor, who met with her. He wrote that B should not joke or be “snappy” when asked about her mood by caregivers because there is a protocol based on her responses. The EMS did not find her to be at risk. The doctor who examined her did not find her to be at risk or to need hospitalization.

B was so happy to be cleared to go back to camp. She sorted through her belongings, to pare them down, for the remaining four days, of her two week camp experience. We drove to the camp, and called right before arrival, so someone could meet us there.

Even though B had been medically cleared, we were told that she could not return because they didn't have staff for one-on-one supervision. She was cleared and didn't require one-on-one supervision. One of the suggestions by the counselor was frequent check-ins that could be as simple as a thumbs up or a thumbs down.

B explained that she was anxious when she scratched her arm because there were always a lot of people around. She is used to having some downtime. If she had bit her nails instead, because of anxiety, this wouldn't have been an issue.

Camp K is supposed to be an inclusive camp, for all girls, even ones with occasional anxiety. She felt let down by the staff, at camp, because she did what they asked her to do in order to return to camp.

Camp is not cheap. We received aid for around half the fee, for two weeks of camp, but still paid over a thousand dollars, so she could attend her third year of camp. We did what was asked of us then the decision to let her return was rescinded, without any consideration, of the results of her medical evaluation. We brought a copy of her paperwork with us but nobody asked to see it. They let B know that she would be welcomed back, next year, but it is unlikely that she will return for a fourth year. We are still grateful for the skills that she has acquired, during the three summers, that she attended Camp B.




The bold is an inappropriate, stigmatizing and punitive response from the counselor. He is essentially punishing her for her perspective - that what she did was not reflective of the serious accusation he was making. Instead of reporting that she didn't seem upset or worried, he decided to report that she was being uncooperative. He made this adversarial instead of partnering with her. He might be following protocol, but it is clear that he has no mental health first aid training and the people that do made a different judgement than he did.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Our daughter “B” has been going to an overnight summer camp for 3 years.
Yesterday, we got a call that the camp had called EMS for her.
They didn’t see any need to transport her to a hospital so we were called to pick her up.
We were told that she could come back if she got medical clearance which she did after meeting with a doctor and a counselor. She was happy to go back. When we got there, they told us she couldn’t stay.

Here is part of a draft of an email that I am writing in hopes of getting a refund.
It also explains more of what happened yesterday.

Email draft: Our daughter B is an amazing young person. She will have disappointments, in her life, but summer camp should never have been one of them. She was devastated that she was not allowed to return to Camp K, after we were told that she could return, if she got medical clearance. She met with a doctor and a counselor. B had made some superficial scratches on her arm. They were barely visible. We were not told exactly what she said that triggered an EMS call. B said she just answered some questions but wasn't going around talking about self harm.

I got a clue about what might have happened, after reading the report, of the counselor, who met with her. He wrote that B should not joke or be “snappy” when asked about her mood by caregivers because there is a protocol based on her responses. The EMS did not find her to be at risk. The doctor who examined her did not find her to be at risk or to need hospitalization.

B was so happy to be cleared to go back to camp. She sorted through her belongings, to pare them down, for the remaining four days, of her two week camp experience. We drove to the camp, and called right before arrival, so someone could meet us there.

Even though B had been medically cleared, we were told that she could not return because they didn't have staff for one-on-one supervision. She was cleared and didn't require one-on-one supervision. One of the suggestions by the counselor was frequent check-ins that could be as simple as a thumbs up or a thumbs down.

B explained that she was anxious when she scratched her arm because there were always a lot of people around. She is used to having some downtime. If she had bit her nails instead, because of anxiety, this wouldn't have been an issue.

Camp K is supposed to be an inclusive camp, for all girls, even ones with occasional anxiety. She felt let down by the staff, at camp, because she did what they asked her to do in order to return to camp.

Camp is not cheap. We received aid for around half the fee, for two weeks of camp, but still paid over a thousand dollars, so she could attend her third year of camp. We did what was asked of us then the decision to let her return was rescinded, without any consideration, of the results of her medical evaluation. We brought a copy of her paperwork with us but nobody asked to see it. They let B know that she would be welcomed back, next year, but it is unlikely that she will return for a fourth year. We are still grateful for the skills that she has acquired, during the three summers, that she attended Camp B.




The bold is an inappropriate, stigmatizing and punitive response from the counselor. He is essentially punishing her for her perspective - that what she did was not reflective of the serious accusation he was making. Instead of reporting that she didn't seem upset or worried, he decided to report that she was being uncooperative. He made this adversarial instead of partnering with her. He might be following protocol, but it is clear that he has no mental health first aid training and the people that do made a different judgement than he did.


Breaking news, a highly trained physician had a more thoughtful assessment than a 17 year old counselor making 6 bucks an hour. If op wants a specialized camp she needs to find it, this one isn’t offering what she wants (and if it was it would be wildly expensive.)
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Our daughter “B” has been going to an overnight summer camp for 3 years.
Yesterday, we got a call that the camp had called EMS for her.
They didn’t see any need to transport her to a hospital so we were called to pick her up.
We were told that she could come back if she got medical clearance which she did after meeting with a doctor and a counselor. She was happy to go back. When we got there, they told us she couldn’t stay.

Here is part of a draft of an email that I am writing in hopes of getting a refund.
It also explains more of what happened yesterday.

Email draft: Our daughter B is an amazing young person. She will have disappointments, in her life, but summer camp should never have been one of them. She was devastated that she was not allowed to return to Camp K, after we were told that she could return, if she got medical clearance. She met with a doctor and a counselor. B had made some superficial scratches on her arm. They were barely visible. We were not told exactly what she said that triggered an EMS call. B said she just answered some questions but wasn't going around talking about self harm.

I got a clue about what might have happened, after reading the report, of the counselor, who met with her. He wrote that B should not joke or be “snappy” when asked about her mood by caregivers because there is a protocol based on her responses. The EMS did not find her to be at risk. The doctor who examined her did not find her to be at risk or to need hospitalization.

B was so happy to be cleared to go back to camp. She sorted through her belongings, to pare them down, for the remaining four days, of her two week camp experience. We drove to the camp, and called right before arrival, so someone could meet us there.

Even though B had been medically cleared, we were told that she could not return because they didn't have staff for one-on-one supervision. She was cleared and didn't require one-on-one supervision. One of the suggestions by the counselor was frequent check-ins that could be as simple as a thumbs up or a thumbs down.

B explained that she was anxious when she scratched her arm because there were always a lot of people around. She is used to having some downtime. If she had bit her nails instead, because of anxiety, this wouldn't have been an issue.

Camp K is supposed to be an inclusive camp, for all girls, even ones with occasional anxiety. She felt let down by the staff, at camp, because she did what they asked her to do in order to return to camp.

Camp is not cheap. We received aid for around half the fee, for two weeks of camp, but still paid over a thousand dollars, so she could attend her third year of camp. We did what was asked of us then the decision to let her return was rescinded, without any consideration, of the results of her medical evaluation. We brought a copy of her paperwork with us but nobody asked to see it. They let B know that she would be welcomed back, next year, but it is unlikely that she will return for a fourth year. We are still grateful for the skills that she has acquired, during the three summers, that she attended Camp B.




The bold is an inappropriate, stigmatizing and punitive response from the counselor. He is essentially punishing her for her perspective - that what she did was not reflective of the serious accusation he was making. Instead of reporting that she didn't seem upset or worried, he decided to report that she was being uncooperative. He made this adversarial instead of partnering with her. He might be following protocol, but it is clear that he has no mental health first aid training and the people that do made a different judgement than he did.


Breaking news, a highly trained physician had a more thoughtful assessment than a 17 year old counselor making 6 bucks an hour. If op wants a specialized camp she needs to find it, this one isn’t offering what she wants (and if it was it would be wildly expensive.)


I am pretty sure that the counselor mentioned there is the mental health provider that the camp asked to have meet with her and clear her before she returned. It sounds as though the mental health provider is saying that the kid reported having made a sarcastic or joking comment, and that the camp responded appropriately by following protocol. Those protocols exist because 17 year old camp counselors shouldn't be the ones making major decisions about whether a kid is safe. So one thing the mental health counselor did was to advise the kid to respond honestly and seriously the next time someone asks her.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Our daughter “B” has been going to an overnight summer camp for 3 years.
Yesterday, we got a call that the camp had called EMS for her.
They didn’t see any need to transport her to a hospital so we were called to pick her up.
We were told that she could come back if she got medical clearance which she did after meeting with a doctor and a counselor. She was happy to go back. When we got there, they told us she couldn’t stay.

Here is part of a draft of an email that I am writing in hopes of getting a refund.
It also explains more of what happened yesterday.

Email draft: Our daughter B is an amazing young person. She will have disappointments, in her life, but summer camp should never have been one of them. She was devastated that she was not allowed to return to Camp K, after we were told that she could return, if she got medical clearance. She met with a doctor and a counselor. B had made some superficial scratches on her arm. They were barely visible. We were not told exactly what she said that triggered an EMS call. B said she just answered some questions but wasn't going around talking about self harm.

I got a clue about what might have happened, after reading the report, of the counselor, who met with her. He wrote that B should not joke or be “snappy” when asked about her mood by caregivers because there is a protocol based on her responses. The EMS did not find her to be at risk. The doctor who examined her did not find her to be at risk or to need hospitalization.

B was so happy to be cleared to go back to camp. She sorted through her belongings, to pare them down, for the remaining four days, of her two week camp experience. We drove to the camp, and called right before arrival, so someone could meet us there.

Even though B had been medically cleared, we were told that she could not return because they didn't have staff for one-on-one supervision. She was cleared and didn't require one-on-one supervision. One of the suggestions by the counselor was frequent check-ins that could be as simple as a thumbs up or a thumbs down.

B explained that she was anxious when she scratched her arm because there were always a lot of people around. She is used to having some downtime. If she had bit her nails instead, because of anxiety, this wouldn't have been an issue.

Camp K is supposed to be an inclusive camp, for all girls, even ones with occasional anxiety. She felt let down by the staff, at camp, because she did what they asked her to do in order to return to camp.

Camp is not cheap. We received aid for around half the fee, for two weeks of camp, but still paid over a thousand dollars, so she could attend her third year of camp. We did what was asked of us then the decision to let her return was rescinded, without any consideration, of the results of her medical evaluation. We brought a copy of her paperwork with us but nobody asked to see it. They let B know that she would be welcomed back, next year, but it is unlikely that she will return for a fourth year. We are still grateful for the skills that she has acquired, during the three summers, that she attended Camp B.




The bold is an inappropriate, stigmatizing and punitive response from the counselor. He is essentially punishing her for her perspective - that what she did was not reflective of the serious accusation he was making. Instead of reporting that she didn't seem upset or worried, he decided to report that she was being uncooperative. He made this adversarial instead of partnering with her. He might be following protocol, but it is clear that he has no mental health first aid training and the people that do made a different judgement than he did.


I don’t was the counselor OP engaged to get “clearance” to go back to camp. OP says she had to meet with a Dr and counselor after the fact . This wasn’t the camp counselor. OPs counselor noted she was not being cooperative with the camp caregivers OP wants to “check in frequently” with her to check on her mood. The daughter made joking, snappy, inappropriate comments when they camp first check on her and her response is what prompted the EMS call if I’m following this correctly. Therefore the came seems reasonable is saying they can’t accept her back after this if she’s uncooperative with the people OP wants to check in on her.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:I'm assuming all the defensive posts on this thread are coming from the OP.

As she posts more and more, I am really hoping the OP is a troll (which is rare on the SN forum). I am alarmed at how obstinate OP is being.

Her daughter had a mental health episode that the camp thought was serious enough to warrant a 911 call. Whether anxiety or suicidal thoughts, this was a mental health episode. OP is literally only concerned that the camp wouldn't let her daughter back, or won't pay a refund. Why is OP not concerned about her daughter's mental health?

This thread is really alarming, and I am genuinely concerned for OP's daughter (again, assuming OP is not a troll).


Should every kid who jokes or blurts out without thinking be stigmatized or labeled as having mental health problems. It sounds like the family did everything that was recommended for them to do so why are you assuming that they don’t take her mental health seriously?


Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm assuming all the defensive posts on this thread are coming from the OP.

As she posts more and more, I am really hoping the OP is a troll (which is rare on the SN forum). I am alarmed at how obstinate OP is being.

Her daughter had a mental health episode that the camp thought was serious enough to warrant a 911 call. Whether anxiety or suicidal thoughts, this was a mental health episode. OP is literally only concerned that the camp wouldn't let her daughter back, or won't pay a refund. Why is OP not concerned about her daughter's mental health?

This thread is really alarming, and I am genuinely concerned for OP's daughter (again, assuming OP is not a troll).


Should every kid who jokes or blurts out without thinking be stigmatized or labeled as having mental health problems. It sounds like the family did everything that was recommended for them to do so why are you assuming that they don’t take her mental health seriously?




If they are also self harming, then yes.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm assuming all the defensive posts on this thread are coming from the OP.

As she posts more and more, I am really hoping the OP is a troll (which is rare on the SN forum). I am alarmed at how obstinate OP is being.

Her daughter had a mental health episode that the camp thought was serious enough to warrant a 911 call. Whether anxiety or suicidal thoughts, this was a mental health episode. OP is literally only concerned that the camp wouldn't let her daughter back, or won't pay a refund. Why is OP not concerned about her daughter's mental health?

This thread is really alarming, and I am genuinely concerned for OP's daughter (again, assuming OP is not a troll).


Should every kid who jokes or blurts out without thinking be stigmatized or labeled as having mental health problems. It sounds like the family did everything that was recommended for them to do so why are you assuming that they don’t take her mental health seriously?




Because OP is downplaying her conduct, the risks she presents and the recommendations from trained professionals.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm assuming all the defensive posts on this thread are coming from the OP.

As she posts more and more, I am really hoping the OP is a troll (which is rare on the SN forum). I am alarmed at how obstinate OP is being.

Her daughter had a mental health episode that the camp thought was serious enough to warrant a 911 call. Whether anxiety or suicidal thoughts, this was a mental health episode. OP is literally only concerned that the camp wouldn't let her daughter back, or won't pay a refund. Why is OP not concerned about her daughter's mental health?

This thread is really alarming, and I am genuinely concerned for OP's daughter (again, assuming OP is not a troll).


Should every kid who jokes or blurts out without thinking be stigmatized or labeled as having mental health problems. It sounds like the family did everything that was recommended for them to do so why are you assuming that they don’t take her mental health seriously?




Because OP is downplaying her conduct, the risks she presents and the recommendations from trained professionals.


The trained professionals are the ones who determined OPs daughter was not at risk.
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