Yale Admissions

[Anonymous]

But I don't think the emphasis has shifted further towards legacies and athletes in the past few years, no?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I got into Yale in 2015 (so perhaps very slightly less competitive than it is today, but in practice I don't think there's a big difference) with "no hooks". I just went to a normal DCPS high school and got good grades...

Dramatically less competitive than today, unfortunately.

Not PP. Not really - Yale reports 6.7% in 2015 and 5.91% in 2023. I wouldn't call that dramatically different. I 've been following college message boards for years and it's pretty typical think this is the WORST YEAR EVER/A BLOODBATH but at the most selective schools it's been down in the single digits for awhile.

2000 -- 16%
1990 -- 20%
1975 -- 27%

Right, and nobody is disputing that acceptance rates have declined at all these schools over the last 50 years. But the prior assertion that Yale was “dramatically less competitive” in 2015 is simply false. This is easy info to locate, as apparently you have.

NO NO NO. You are choosing years selectively. Why stop at 2023 (that was already 4 years ago). For the Yale graduating class of 2019 - overall admit rate was 6.49 percent. Fro the most recently admitted class, it was 4.25 percent. That is a very substantial cut. Even more dramatically EA admissions rates down from 36.6 percent (!) for 2013 to 10.2 percent for 2027.

See the full series here:

https://toptieradmissions.com/resources/college-acceptance-rates/yale-acceptance-rates/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I got into Yale in 2015 (so perhaps very slightly less competitive than it is today, but in practice I don't think there's a big difference) with "no hooks". I just went to a normal DCPS high school and got good grades...

Acceptance rates weren’t that different but institutional priorities in terms of make up of the class are.

Priorities haven't changed much since 2015, except for deemphasis on legacy. They have changed a lot over tge longer haul with less emphasis on connections/class/private pipelines and more on building a class that is highly competitive and also contributes to the learning community through its diversity. That is a good thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I got into Yale in 2015 (so perhaps very slightly less competitive than it is today, but in practice I don't think there's a big difference) with "no hooks". I just went to a normal DCPS high school and got good grades...

Acceptance rates weren’t that different but institutional priorities in terms of make up of the class are.

Priorities haven't changed much since 2015, except for deemphasis on legacy. They have changed a lot over tge longer haul with less emphasis on connections/class/private pipelines and more on building a class that is highly competitive and also contributes to the learning community through its diversity. That is a good thing.

What? URM, first gen and low income re definitely higher priority in the past five years than any time prior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I got into Yale in 2015 (so perhaps very slightly less competitive than it is today, but in practice I don't think there's a big difference) with "no hooks". I just went to a normal DCPS high school and got good grades...

Dramatically less competitive than today, unfortunately.

Yale is quite transparent about this.

The two greatest changes in admissions rate over the past 20 years has been the remarkable and deliberate increase in the percentage of international students in the undergraduate student body and the massive increase in application numbers.

Since you applied in 2015, the application volume has gone from 30k to 51k! The admit rate has gone from 6.7% to 4.5%.

28,000 applicants were rejected in 2015.
48,000 applicants were rejected last year!

Yale is really transparent with their numbers. Play with this website and explore the “additional navigation” tab at your own risk. As a middle aged alumna it’s pretty sobering.

https://oir.yale.edu/data-browser/student-data/admissions/yale-college-admissions-summary-w033

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know a kid who got in who is none of those things. He is finishing up his first semester at Yale right now. He's Asian, too! I don't know his stats as he is a friend, but from what I know he had outstanding academics, national math and science competitions, top musician, etc. It does happen.

It’s 2023 post affirmative action. If your kid didn’t get in, then it has nothing to do with his/her hook so please stop including URM as a reason. They just didn’t make the cut.

The quoted post is the only answer I will accept now because the old excuses no longer work and now your child will be judged negatively the same way my child was judged. How does it feel?

-URM Mother of an Ivy student who is obviously not surprised the same blame and excuses are still being used.

you are mistaken. URM and first-generation (greatest percentage of First gen are URMs) is still very much alive. C.J. Roberts said in the opinion that the discussion of import of race in the applicant's life just moves to the essays. American colleges are going to continue to engage in social engineering even if they have to hire more readers to figure out who is whom without a box.

No you are mistaken.

I just sat through a webinar with a Civil Rights lawyer at a government agency and this person emphasized that schools using essays to identify students who have good “character” and who have had to overcome hardships will be acceptable. To the extent race contributed to an experienced hardship, then it may be discussed in the essay but universities do not have control over that. There is no longer a legal reason for universities to use race alone (with all other scores/grades being equal) to give anyone a boost over another applicant. So a student can mention race in their essay but it will not give an applicant a boost.

Having said that, please provide facts to support your assertion that most first generation students (specifically at top 20 schools) are URM. If so, I would bet most of the first generation students at top schools are definitely not African Americans. I understand why lumping URM as a hook with first generation makes you feel better about shifting blame once again to these students but it comes across loud and clear as a dog whistle. Now it’s “These first generation (URM by proxy) students took my child’s spot”.

High SAT scoring college applicants who are the children of my highly educated peers (and arguably privileged) did not waltz into any top 20 school. Plenty received Ivy rejections and were put on waitlists just like any other kid. In fact, many of these kids are attending UVA or Georgia Tech and are highly qualified.

I have a family member who works at a T10 and another on the board of trustees at a T25. Both sent internal emails post SC decision reaffirming their commitment to diversity. URM will continue to be a hook, and the admissions record will NEVER have anything in it to justify a challenge on affirmative action grounds. It’s incredibly naive to expect otherwise.

+1. Nothing has changed. It's just moved to the essay and, if possible, making race clear in ECs. Everyone knows this. If C.J. Roberts had wanted no race then he wouldn't have said it could be discussed in the essay. It can and that's what all college counselors are advising the URM and first-gens to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know a kid who got in who is none of those things. He is finishing up his first semester at Yale right now. He's Asian, too! I don't know his stats as he is a friend, but from what I know he had outstanding academics, national math and science competitions, top musician, etc. It does happen.

It’s 2023 post affirmative action. If your kid didn’t get in, then it has nothing to do with his/her hook so please stop including URM as a reason. They just didn’t make the cut.

The quoted post is the only answer I will accept now because the old excuses no longer work and now your child will be judged negatively the same way my child was judged. How does it feel?

-URM Mother of an Ivy student who is obviously not surprised the same blame and excuses are still being used.

you are mistaken. URM and first-generation (greatest percentage of First gen are URMs) is still very much alive. C.J. Roberts said in the opinion that the discussion of import of race in the applicant's life just moves to the essays. American colleges are going to continue to engage in social engineering even if they have to hire more readers to figure out who is whom without a box.

No you are mistaken.

I just sat through a webinar with a Civil Rights lawyer at a government agency and this person emphasized that schools using essays to identify students who have good “character” and who have had to overcome hardships will be acceptable. To the extent race contributed to an experienced hardship, then it may be discussed in the essay but universities do not have control over that. There is no longer a legal reason for universities to use race alone (with all other scores/grades being equal) to give anyone a boost over another applicant. So a student can mention race in their essay but it will not give an applicant a boost.

Having said that, please provide facts to support your assertion that most first generation students (specifically at top 20 schools) are URM. If so, I would bet most of the first generation students at top schools are definitely not African Americans. I understand why lumping URM as a hook with first generation makes you feel better about shifting blame once again to these students but it comes across loud and clear as a dog whistle. Now it’s “These first generation (URM by proxy) students took my child’s spot”.

High SAT scoring college applicants who are the children of my highly educated peers (and arguably privileged) did not waltz into any top 20 school. Plenty received Ivy rejections and were put on waitlists just like any other kid. In fact, many of these kids are attending UVA or Georgia Tech and are highly qualified.

I have a family member who works at a T10 and another on the board of trustees at a T25. Both sent internal emails post SC decision reaffirming their commitment to diversity. URM will continue to be a hook, and the admissions record will NEVER have anything in it to justify a challenge on affirmative action grounds. It’s incredibly naive to expect otherwise.

+1. Nothing has changed. It's just moved to the essay and, if possible, making race clear in ECs. Everyone knows this. If C.J. Roberts had wanted no race then he wouldn't have said it could be discussed in the essay. It can and that's what all college counselors are advising the URM and first-gens to do.

Roberts also said that essays can't be used as a proxy for race. Do you really think Edward Bloom is done? He will be looking at the demographic composition of the class of 2027 at all the highly selective school and public flagships. Wouldn't be hard to prove a pattern based essays.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know a kid who got in who is none of those things. He is finishing up his first semester at Yale right now. He's Asian, too! I don't know his stats as he is a friend, but from what I know he had outstanding academics, national math and science competitions, top musician, etc. It does happen.

It’s 2023 post affirmative action. If your kid didn’t get in, then it has nothing to do with his/her hook so please stop including URM as a reason. They just didn’t make the cut.

The quoted post is the only answer I will accept now because the old excuses no longer work and now your child will be judged negatively the same way my child was judged. How does it feel?

-URM Mother of an Ivy student who is obviously not surprised the same blame and excuses are still being used.

you are mistaken. URM and first-generation (greatest percentage of First gen are URMs) is still very much alive. C.J. Roberts said in the opinion that the discussion of import of race in the applicant's life just moves to the essays. American colleges are going to continue to engage in social engineering even if they have to hire more readers to figure out who is whom without a box.

No you are mistaken.

I just sat through a webinar with a Civil Rights lawyer at a government agency and this person emphasized that schools using essays to identify students who have good “character” and who have had to overcome hardships will be acceptable. To the extent race contributed to an experienced hardship, then it may be discussed in the essay but universities do not have control over that. There is no longer a legal reason for universities to use race alone (with all other scores/grades being equal) to give anyone a boost over another applicant. So a student can mention race in their essay but it will not give an applicant a boost.

Having said that, please provide facts to support your assertion that most first generation students (specifically at top 20 schools) are URM. If so, I would bet most of the first generation students at top schools are definitely not African Americans. I understand why lumping URM as a hook with first generation makes you feel better about shifting blame once again to these students but it comes across loud and clear as a dog whistle. Now it’s “These first generation (URM by proxy) students took my child’s spot”.

High SAT scoring college applicants who are the children of my highly educated peers (and arguably privileged) did not waltz into any top 20 school. Plenty received Ivy rejections and were put on waitlists just like any other kid. In fact, many of these kids are attending UVA or Georgia Tech and are highly qualified.

I have a family member who works at a T10 and another on the board of trustees at a T25. Both sent internal emails post SC decision reaffirming their commitment to diversity. URM will continue to be a hook, and the admissions record will NEVER have anything in it to justify a challenge on affirmative action grounds. It’s incredibly naive to expect otherwise.

+1. Nothing has changed. It's just moved to the essay and, if possible, making race clear in ECs. Everyone knows this. If C.J. Roberts had wanted no race then he wouldn't have said it could be discussed in the essay. It can and that's what all college counselors are advising the URM and first-gens to do.

Roberts also said that essays can't be used as a proxy for race. Do you really think Edward Bloom is done? He will be looking at the demographic composition of the class of 2027 at all the highly selective school and public flagships. Wouldn't be hard to prove a pattern based essays.

^^ Blum (autocorrect!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Other than Legacy/Athlete/URM - any DMV admits at all? Looking at our school, this seems to take up 100 percent of the cases.

Yes, there is little room for kids admitted solely on merit these days.

NP. Junior mom. A little shocked to see the assertions on this thread. What an awful situation for our top universities to be driven by legacy considerations. Even the UK with its traditions of royalty does not permit this.

Virtually all the legacies I know getting admitted are highly qualified. I'd be much more concerned about the famous/influential people's kids or the 1st gens/URMs.

If highly qualified, they should compete EQUALLY against non legacies. Tons of people are qualified. To edge out others on the basis of legacy is the problem.

Let's assume the legacy goes to a Big 3 and "edges out" someone from their school with similar stats, income level, ECs, and race. I don't always see any big issue with the legacy preference there. The legacy kids are not pushing out the first gen and URM applicants the schools are recruiting so hard to get. They are pushing out kids in similarly advantaged situations. If anything, an UMC kid could have a bone to pick.

In our Big 3, in nearly every legacy vs. good academics last year, the good academics kid has been from a middle-income to scholarship kid who was amazing academically but passed over for an 'okay' academic kid who happened to be a legacy and usually very wealthy family. Not similarly advantaged.

I'd still be fine with the college taking the legacy over a middle income or partial scholarship kid assuming the person isn't a first-gen college student and that both kids are more than minimally qualified.

Let's see: Perhaps because you are a legacy yourself? Yes, let the others eat cake.

I wasn't a legacy (and received considerable aid) but do see the value of legacy connections to students and institutions after attending a top 5 school with many of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I got into Yale in 2015 (so perhaps very slightly less competitive than it is today, but in practice I don't think there's a big difference) with "no hooks". I just went to a normal DCPS high school and got good grades...

Dramatically less competitive than today, unfortunately.

Yale is quite transparent about this.

The two greatest changes in admissions rate over the past 20 years has been the remarkable and deliberate increase in the percentage of international students in the undergraduate student body and the massive increase in application numbers.

Since you applied in 2015, the application volume has gone from 30k to 51k! The admit rate has gone from 6.7% to 4.5%.

28,000 applicants were rejected in 2015.
48,000 applicants were rejected last year!

Yale is really transparent with their numbers. Play with this website and explore the “additional navigation” tab at your own risk. As a middle aged alumna it’s pretty sobering.

https://oir.yale.edu/data-browser/student-data/admissions/yale-college-admissions-summary-w033

You also have to remember that the recruited athlete #s haven't changed dramatically over the last 30 years, so it is even more sobering for the remaining spots.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I got into Yale in 2015 (so perhaps very slightly less competitive than it is today, but in practice I don't think there's a big difference) with "no hooks". I just went to a normal DCPS high school and got good grades...

Dramatically less competitive than today, unfortunately.

Not PP. Not really - Yale reports 6.7% in 2015 and 5.91% in 2023. I wouldn't call that dramatically different. I 've been following college message boards for years and it's pretty typical think this is the WORST YEAR EVER/A BLOODBATH but at the most selective schools it's been down in the single digits for awhile.

2000 -- 16%
1990 -- 20%
1975 -- 27%

Right, and nobody is disputing that acceptance rates have declined at all these schools over the last 50 years. But the prior assertion that Yale was “dramatically less competitive” in 2015 is simply false. This is easy info to locate, as apparently you have.

NO NO NO. You are choosing years selectively. Why stop at 2023 (that was already 4 years ago). For the Yale graduating class of 2019 - overall admit rate was 6.49 percent. Fro the most recently admitted class, it was 4.25 percent. That is a very substantial cut. Even more dramatically EA admissions rates down from 36.6 percent (!) for 2013 to 10.2 percent for 2027.

See the full series here:

https://toptieradmissions.com/resources/college-acceptance-rates/yale-acceptance-rates/

Haven't read the link? But is this just because of an increase in the number of Applicants since they went test optional---that's what I'm assuming. The 6 to 3% doesn't tell a full picture.

[Anonymous]

How are these schools even handling so many apps? It is almost comical how much time and $$ goes into the applications that must now get such a short actual read!

[Anonymous]

In the Yale College class of 2027, 59% identify as non-white and most of the class is receiving financial aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How are these schools even handling so many apps? It is almost comical how much time and $$ goes into the applications that must now get such a short actual read!

This isn’t the only answer but ….

The tuition and app fees have gone up as the app numbers go up. Smaller and less focus schools, need the money from tuition and application to win their schools day-to-day. Obviously, like this, can actually put that extra money into the extra effort of the additional applications. They have endowments to run the school day today.

[Anonymous]

What’s the point now? As an employer, I know how to look at Yale GPAs. Go somewhere less expensive where I will be able to tell that you weren’t just in a continuation of the MCPS grading system travesty.