Middle class family being bamboozled with large "scholarships" from tier 5 LACs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it so interesting that so many kids from my DC's public MCPS high school go to these no name D3 colleges to play a sport. It's not like they are getting a full scholarship. Just seems so short sighted to pick a school with low return on investment for the privilege of playing in a mediocre league for 4 years. Some of these kids could clearly get better educations for the same price.

Kid not good enough, huh? Sorry. So many benefits to college sports, playing at the next level, being a part of something and seeing it through. Don’t worry about these kids, they will go to great grad programs and have a sport community for a lifetime.

so, they have to spend even more money to get a good paying job? Even more bamboozling.

Most kids at LACs / SLACs go to grad school.

right, so more bamboozling

So a JD or an MD is a bamboozle?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most private colleges are expensive for no reason. Many end up transferring out and boomerang back home to a regional public university or if they have the grades, try to get into the state flagship for their second year.

They have to pay people and operate facilities just like every other business.

The real reason is all the merit and financial aid. They raise prices and then "discount" it instead of charging a reasonable amount for everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it so interesting that so many kids from my DC's public MCPS high school go to these no name D3 colleges to play a sport. It's not like they are getting a full scholarship. Just seems so short sighted to pick a school with low return on investment for the privilege of playing in a mediocre league for 4 years. Some of these kids could clearly get better educations for the same price.

Wealthy parents trying to save face and not feel like they wasted ten plus years on travel sports, hotels, travel, lessons, etc. One wealthy couple we knew said their daughter was going to play soccer at an obscure D3 college in Boston. Turns out she is not even on the varsity team, she is only playing club soccer at the college.

That's not a waste if the child wanted to play and enjoyed soccer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think OP invented the term "tier 5 LAC" to just stress that these are non-selective privates.

Don't take things so literally, folks.

I googled it. OP is citing to Ivy Coach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think OP invented the term "tier 5 LAC" to just stress that these are non-selective privates.

Don't take things so literally, folks.

I googled it. OP is citing to Ivy Coach.

lol, the company that charges up to 1.5 million to get your kids into Harvard and Stanford. They definitely have no material interest in making sure families cannot see multiple paths to a successful life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it so interesting that so many kids from my DC's public MCPS high school go to these no name D3 colleges to play a sport. It's not like they are getting a full scholarship. Just seems so short sighted to pick a school with low return on investment for the privilege of playing in a mediocre league for 4 years. Some of these kids could clearly get better educations for the same price.

Wealthy parents trying to save face and not feel like they wasted ten plus years on travel sports, hotels, travel, lessons, etc. One wealthy couple we knew said their daughter was going to play soccer at an obscure D3 college in Boston. Turns out she is not even on the varsity team, she is only playing club soccer at the college.

That's not a waste if the child wanted to play and enjoyed soccer.

Agree. Is the entire point of childhood now to get accepted to a T15? Cannot co-sign this pov.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to what you all probably think is a bottom tier college on a ginormous scholarship. Wasn’t a scam. Just brought the cost way way way down. Didn’t want the big state school. Got great teaching, attention from really awesome professors. Went on to grad school at an Ivy League and became a professor myself- at a large state school.

So I guess it works? My kids will definitely consider being big fish in small ponds if they are so inclined.

DCUM is so status obsessed it’s shocking sometimes.

but you went on to grad school.

And it's ironic you did not want big state school experience, but then ended up teaching at one.

I guess it’s ironic? Or not? I wanted to do research so this is where you go … The wonderful professors at my school had to teach a TON and I didn’t want to do that.

Also, I don’t think I’m a success just bc I went to grad school. My friends from there have wonderful lives and careers and lovely families.

You really don’t need T-whatever to have a great life is my point. Don’t go into too much debt for undergrad, follow your child’s interests, let them feel good about wherever they end up!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to what you all probably think is a bottom tier college on a ginormous scholarship. Wasn’t a scam. Just brought the cost way way way down. Didn’t want the big state school. Got great teaching, attention from really awesome professors. Went on to grad school at an Ivy League and became a professor myself- at a large state school.

So I guess it works? My kids will definitely consider being big fish in small ponds if they are so inclined.

DCUM is so status obsessed it’s shocking sometimes.

but you went on to grad school.

And it's ironic you did not want big state school experience, but then ended up teaching at one.

I guess it’s ironic? Or not? I wanted to do research so this is where you go … The wonderful professors at my school had to teach a TON and I didn’t want to do that.

Also, I don’t think I’m a success just bc I went to grad school. My friends from there have wonderful lives and careers and lovely families.

You really don’t need T-whatever to have a great life is my point. Don’t go into too much debt for undergrad, follow your child’s interests, let them feel good about wherever they end up!

Hey, thank you for this refreshing perspective. Really appreciated. I love a post that brings down the blood pressure rather than raises it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:so, they have to spend even more money to get a good paying job? Even more bamboozling.

Tell us, is there some secret way to making millions as a BigLaw partner with only an undergraduate degree?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it so interesting that so many kids from my DC's public MCPS high school go to these no name D3 colleges to play a sport. It's not like they are getting a full scholarship. Just seems so short sighted to pick a school with low return on investment for the privilege of playing in a mediocre league for 4 years. Some of these kids could clearly get better educations for the same price.

Wealthy parents trying to save face and not feel like they wasted ten plus years on travel sports, hotels, travel, lessons, etc. One wealthy couple we knew said their daughter was going to play soccer at an obscure D3 college in Boston. Turns out she is not even on the varsity team, she is only playing club soccer at the college.

That's not a waste if the child wanted to play and enjoyed soccer.

I am not aware of many D3 schools where it is all that difficult to play on club sports teams.

Hopefully, she picked the school for better reasons and that they even had a club soccer team (many D3 schools don't offer extensive club sports).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:so, they have to spend even more money to get a good paying job? Even more bamboozling.

Tell us, is there some secret way to making millions as a BigLaw partner with only an undergraduate degree?

DP...no there is not some secret, but you do appreciate that there are many, many lawyers with tons of debt that are forced to just hang our a shingle or work for the small town plaintiff's firm...way more than the ones that have any chance of working at Kravath and then sticking around becoming partner.

Those are the kids that were "bamboozled" into attending a random law school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to what you all probably think is a bottom tier college on a ginormous scholarship. Wasn’t a scam. Just brought the cost way way way down. Didn’t want the big state school. Got great teaching, attention from really awesome professors. Went on to grad school at an Ivy League and became a professor myself- at a large state school.

So I guess it works? My kids will definitely consider being big fish in small ponds if they are so inclined.

DCUM is so status obsessed it’s shocking sometimes.

Gives me hope given all this snobbery. My DC has merit scholarships at smaller regional schools (wants that type of environment) that bring the cost to low 20s. May go on to get a masters and the lower price definitely helps.

Same, same. My kid hated the flagships that we toured. Loves the small LACs. Will probably attend the one that gives her the best price.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it so interesting that so many kids from my DC's public MCPS high school go to these no name D3 colleges to play a sport. It's not like they are getting a full scholarship. Just seems so short sighted to pick a school with low return on investment for the privilege of playing in a mediocre league for 4 years. Some of these kids could clearly get better educations for the same price.

Wealthy parents trying to save face and not feel like they wasted ten plus years on travel sports, hotels, travel, lessons, etc. One wealthy couple we knew said their daughter was going to play soccer at an obscure D3 college in Boston. Turns out she is not even on the varsity team, she is only playing club soccer at the college.

That's not a waste if the child wanted to play and enjoyed soccer.

Can't basically anyone who played travel easily walk on a club team at a no-name lower rung D3? Don't mislead people and spin yarn about how your teen is going to college across the country to play a sport at the next level when they're going to play club, barely a step up from intramurals, at some bottom tier D3. Even the varsity teams at bottom tier D3s are mediocre.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I was just looking at the National Science Foundation report on the 50 colleges and universities with the highest rate of alums earning Ph.D.s in science and engineering. There are plenty middle-of-nowhere merit-aid LACs on that list, including a bunch that many DCUMers would dismiss as "no-name."

For example, Kalamazoo and Hendrix both rank higher on the list of S&E doctorates than Dartmouth, Columbia, Bowdoin, RPI, Rose-Hulman, and WUSTL. (Plenty of DCUM faves don't make the list at all.)

Meanwhile, over the last three years alone, Kalamazoo produced more student Fulbright scholars than several NESCACS, CMC, Caltech, Georgia Tech, and Case Western, among others. In the last 4 years, Hendrix appears to have produced more Watson Fellows than Bates, Williams, or Middlebury. Meanwhile, a kid can go to either of these schools for (literally) a third-to-half the cost of east coast LACs.

For the record, I don't have a kid at either of these schools, nor am I an alum. But I'm definitely paying attention. And if my LAC-inclined kid should wind up at either, I'd be delighted. Not because we've been "bamboozled," either.

I think the Tiers need to be defined...I would actually look at the total universe of LACs (let's just use the USNews universe) and then divide by 5. That probably puts 50 colleges into each Tier.

I know Kalamazoo and have heard good things about it. Is it really ranked say 200+? I will admit I have not heard of Hendrix (is it named after Jimi?).

No, a liberal arts college based in Arkansas. Worked with them years ago where they were generous with hosting refugee students - beyond generous. Always have a fond feeling about the school.

That’s good to hear. On paper, it sure hits a lot of marks for my kid, and the coa can’t be beat. Not the easiest visit though.

[Anonymous]

When my DCs were looking at colleges, I created a roadmap for the process based on spreadsheets. We researched school locations (benefits and drawbacks), the relative strengths of the departments they were interested in, internship opportunities, the strengths of the career centers including funding, graduation rates, endowments (measured per-student), sports opportunities including club sports and funding for them. We looked closely at the CDS for each school and ran NPCs.

We visited the schools they were most interested in (and they did overnights at a few) and they met with admissions officers and professors as well as (for one DC) a coach. Both DCs spoke with students, recent alums, and more established/non-recent alums about their experiences.

They applied and were accepted to a number of LACs (mostly in the Midwest) and chose the schools they thought best for each of them. Both are/were high performing students, so got a lot of merit aid, and both had excellent undergraduate experiences. Neither took on any undergraduate debt and both had e.g. great internships and funded research opportunities during their time in college. One of them published and presented a research paper at a national conference.

One DC attended a CTCL school that is often maligned on DCUM, and is in grad school (fully funded) now at MIT. The other graduated a few years ago from a different LAC ranked in the 40s and has a good job earning just over $100K and is applying to grad schools now.

But sure, we were "bamboozled."