Middle class family being bamboozled with large "scholarships" from tier 5 LACs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it so interesting that so many kids from my DC's public MCPS high school go to these no name D3 colleges to play a sport. It's not like they are getting a full scholarship. Just seems so short sighted to pick a school with low return on investment for the privilege of playing in a mediocre league for 4 years. Some of these kids could clearly get better educations for the same price.

Wealthy parents trying to save face and not feel like they wasted ten plus years on travel sports, hotels, travel, lessons, etc. One wealthy couple we knew said their daughter was going to play soccer at an obscure D3 college in Boston. Turns out she is not even on the varsity team, she is only playing club soccer at the college.

That's not a waste if the child wanted to play and enjoyed soccer.

Can't basically anyone who played travel easily walk on a club team at a no-name lower rung D3? Don't mislead people and spin yarn about how your teen is going to college across the country to play a sport at the next level when they're going to play club, barely a step up from intramurals, at some bottom tier D3. Even the varsity teams at bottom tier D3s are mediocre.

Then you clearly do not follow NCAA D1-3 soccer with schools you've "never heard of" in the 2023 championship playoffs right now.

I... can't imagine caring about this. Let alone using this as a basis for college choice.

Yes, I believe you have limited life experience. That does indeed track.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it so interesting that so many kids from my DC's public MCPS high school go to these no name D3 colleges to play a sport. It's not like they are getting a full scholarship. Just seems so short sighted to pick a school with low return on investment for the privilege of playing in a mediocre league for 4 years. Some of these kids could clearly get better educations for the same price.

Wealthy parents trying to save face and not feel like they wasted ten plus years on travel sports, hotels, travel, lessons, etc. One wealthy couple we knew said their daughter was going to play soccer at an obscure D3 college in Boston. Turns out she is not even on the varsity team, she is only playing club soccer at the college.

That's not a waste if the child wanted to play and enjoyed soccer.

Can't basically anyone who played travel easily walk on a club team at a no-name lower rung D3? Don't mislead people and spin yarn about how your teen is going to college across the country to play a sport at the next level when they're going to play club, barely a step up from intramurals, at some bottom tier D3. Even the varsity teams at bottom tier D3s are mediocre.

Then you clearly do not follow NCAA D1-3 soccer with schools you've "never heard of" in the 2023 championship playoffs right now.

I... can't imagine caring about this. Let alone using this as a basis for college choice.

Our family is into sports. Some of our DCs' friends are on teams in the playoffs. I was struck by the range of schools when looking at the brackets.

No one said "us[e] this as a basis for college choice."

Further up in this reply thread:

"many kids from my DC's public MCPS high school go to these no name D3 colleges to play a sport"
" One wealthy couple we knew said their daughter was going to play soccer at an obscure D3 college in Boston"
"That's not a waste if the child wanted to play and enjoyed soccer"

Yes, people are saying that playing a sport is the basis for their kid's college choice.

It was for DS and he is thrilled and couldn’t be more excited about his school. As a parent, I’m good with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:so, they have to spend even more money to get a good paying job? Even more bamboozling.

Tell us, is there some secret way to making millions as a BigLaw partner with only an undergraduate degree?

Aggressive smart kids in 2023 who want to go to a hyper-competitive T14 law school and hyper-competitive "Big Law" career aren't going to podunk bottom tier private colleges nobody has heard of, where their average classmate is some nitwit who scored 1,100 on the SAT, and one-third of their class never graduates.

Ha! Have you even looked at the bios of the partners of the biggest firms? A lot of “podunk” undergrads in there (but usually, but not always, top law schools).

You see what you want to see. And you're also comparing boomers and old gen X law partners to gen Y kids entering undergrad? You are deluded if you think going to a podunk LOW RANKED or UNRANKED regional private college is a ticket to anything. If your teen is really smart, competitive and aggressive – and wants to be some hot shot law firm attorney – they want to be around peers who push them, not a bunch of nitwits in a podunk small town in the middle of nowhere. Again, we are NOT talking about Williams or even Trinity. We are talking about colleges nobody has ever heard of who throw fake scholarship money discounts to everyone on their email list.

You’ve never hired a single person in your life, that much is clear.

Right? I'm willing to wager that this person is no longer in the work force or was barely ever in it. No one hiring folks and/or working in a multigenerational workplace is using the term "Gen Y" - it's Millennial, not Gen Y. Millennial.

People in this thread are not claiming that attending these schools are tickets "to anything." They are just saying that HS seniors have a range of reasons of why they choose schools, some that may not be important to you, but that is an audience of one.

And if a teen is any of those traits you outlined and also wants to be a hot shot law firm attorney, then they are not probably not seeking one of these LOW RANKED or UNRANKED regional private colleges. There may be exceptions, but probably not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it so interesting that so many kids from my DC's public MCPS high school go to these no name D3 colleges to play a sport. It's not like they are getting a full scholarship. Just seems so short sighted to pick a school with low return on investment for the privilege of playing in a mediocre league for 4 years. Some of these kids could clearly get better educations for the same price.

Kid not good enough, huh? Sorry. So many benefits to college sports, playing at the next level, being a part of something and seeing it through. Don’t worry about these kids, they will go to great grad programs and have a sport community for a lifetime.

so, they have to spend even more money to get a good paying job? Even more bamboozling.

Most kids at LACs / SLACs go to grad school.

right, so more bamboozling

If they go onto grad school they are more likely to go on to PhDs where they pay no tuition and are given a stipend (I got one for 40k/yr for 5 years back in 2001 coming from a Tier 2 LAC) or go on to a JD/MD which does cost but gets you a high paying job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:so, they have to spend even more money to get a good paying job? Even more bamboozling.

Tell us, is there some secret way to making millions as a BigLaw partner with only an undergraduate degree?

Aggressive smart kids in 2023 who want to go to a hyper-competitive T14 law school and hyper-competitive "Big Law" career aren't going to podunk bottom tier private colleges nobody has heard of, where their average classmate is some nitwit who scored 1,100 on the SAT, and one-third of their class never graduates.

Ha! Have you even looked at the bios of the partners of the biggest firms? A lot of “podunk” undergrads in there (but usually, but not always, top law schools).

You see what you want to see. And you're also comparing boomers and old gen X law partners to gen Y kids entering undergrad? You are deluded if you think going to a podunk LOW RANKED or UNRANKED regional private college is a ticket to anything. If your teen is really smart, competitive and aggressive – and wants to be some hot shot law firm attorney – they want to be around peers who push them, not a bunch of nitwits in a podunk small town in the middle of nowhere. Again, we are NOT talking about Williams or even Trinity. We are talking about colleges nobody has ever heard of who throw fake scholarship money discounts to everyone on their email list.

You’ve never hired a single person in your life, that much is clear.

Right? I'm willing to wager that this person is no longer in the work force or was barely ever in it. No one hiring folks and/or working in a multigenerational workplace is using the term "Gen Y" - it's Millennial, not Gen Y. Millennial.

People in this thread are not claiming that attending these schools are tickets "to anything." They are just saying that HS seniors have a range of reasons of why they choose schools, some that may not be important to you, but that is an audience of one.

And if a teen is any of those traits you outlined and also wants to be a hot shot law firm attorney, then they are not probably not seeking one of these LOW RANKED or UNRANKED regional private colleges. There may be exceptions, but probably not.

I spent a year at an unranked regional private college before transferring to a state flagship. I had plenty of friends, so it wasn't lack of social life, and I played a sport, so we traveled to dozens of other regional private colleges. It was awful. They are all awful. They look idyllic at first glance but they are boring and broke. Not worth it even if they were free. No middle class family should max out federal loans after fake scholarships to attend one of these schools. You're basically forced to go to graduate school because there's no help to get good internships and your degree confers jack squat because nobody has ever heard of the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:so, they have to spend even more money to get a good paying job? Even more bamboozling.

Tell us, is there some secret way to making millions as a BigLaw partner with only an undergraduate degree?

Aggressive smart kids in 2023 who want to go to a hyper-competitive T14 law school and hyper-competitive "Big Law" career aren't going to podunk bottom tier private colleges nobody has heard of, where their average classmate is some nitwit who scored 1,100 on the SAT, and one-third of their class never graduates.

Ha! Have you even looked at the bios of the partners of the biggest firms? A lot of “podunk” undergrads in there (but usually, but not always, top law schools).

You see what you want to see. And you're also comparing boomers and old gen X law partners to gen Y kids entering undergrad? You are deluded if you think going to a podunk LOW RANKED or UNRANKED regional private college is a ticket to anything. If your teen is really smart, competitive and aggressive – and wants to be some hot shot law firm attorney – they want to be around peers who push them, not a bunch of nitwits in a podunk small town in the middle of nowhere. Again, we are NOT talking about Williams or even Trinity. We are talking about colleges nobody has ever heard of who throw fake scholarship money discounts to everyone on their email list.

You’ve never hired a single person in your life, that much is clear.

Right? I'm willing to wager that this person is no longer in the work force or was barely ever in it. No one hiring folks and/or working in a multigenerational workplace is using the term "Gen Y" - it's Millennial, not Gen Y. Millennial.

People in this thread are not claiming that attending these schools are tickets "to anything." They are just saying that HS seniors have a range of reasons of why they choose schools, some that may not be important to you, but that is an audience of one.

And if a teen is any of those traits you outlined and also wants to be a hot shot law firm attorney, then they are not probably not seeking one of these LOW RANKED or UNRANKED regional private colleges. There may be exceptions, but probably not.

I spent a year at an unranked regional private college before transferring to a state flagship. I had plenty of friends, so it wasn't lack of social life, and I played a sport, so we traveled to dozens of other regional private colleges. It was awful. They are all awful. They look idyllic at first glance but they are boring and broke. Not worth it even if they were free. No middle class family should max out federal loans after fake scholarships to attend one of these schools. You're basically forced to go to graduate school because there's no help to get good internships and your degree confers jack squat because nobody has ever heard of the school.

My oh my, you people are just unbelievable. It's on you that you ended up at that place. You made that choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it so interesting that so many kids from my DC's public MCPS high school go to these no name D3 colleges to play a sport. It's not like they are getting a full scholarship. Just seems so short sighted to pick a school with low return on investment for the privilege of playing in a mediocre league for 4 years. Some of these kids could clearly get better educations for the same price.

Wealthy parents trying to save face and not feel like they wasted ten plus years on travel sports, hotels, travel, lessons, etc. One wealthy couple we knew said their daughter was going to play soccer at an obscure D3 college in Boston. Turns out she is not even on the varsity team, she is only playing club soccer at the college.

That's not a waste if the child wanted to play and enjoyed soccer.

Can't basically anyone who played travel easily walk on a club team at a no-name lower rung D3? Don't mislead people and spin yarn about how your teen is going to college across the country to play a sport at the next level when they're going to play club, barely a step up from intramurals, at some bottom tier D3. Even the varsity teams at bottom tier D3s are mediocre.

Then you clearly do not follow NCAA D1-3 soccer with schools you've "never heard of" in the 2023 championship playoffs right now.

I... can't imagine caring about this. Let alone using this as a basis for college choice.

Really? So little imagination and empathy that you can’t imagine someone has different joys, loves, and goals than you? I think what you mean is you judge other people for having different priorities. I bet it scares you a little too, the thought that a kid could do what brings them joy (prioritize their activity when choosing a college) and then actually end up a happy and productive adult. Since you’ve prioritized prestige, money, and a constrained career path it is threatening to know there was another way to a good life.

Really well said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it so interesting that so many kids from my DC's public MCPS high school go to these no name D3 colleges to play a sport. It's not like they are getting a full scholarship. Just seems so short sighted to pick a school with low return on investment for the privilege of playing in a mediocre league for 4 years. Some of these kids could clearly get better educations for the same price.

Wealthy parents trying to save face and not feel like they wasted ten plus years on travel sports, hotels, travel, lessons, etc. One wealthy couple we knew said their daughter was going to play soccer at an obscure D3 college in Boston. Turns out she is not even on the varsity team, she is only playing club soccer at the college.

That's not a waste if the child wanted to play and enjoyed soccer.

Can't basically anyone who played travel easily walk on a club team at a no-name lower rung D3? Don't mislead people and spin yarn about how your teen is going to college across the country to play a sport at the next level when they're going to play club, barely a step up from intramurals, at some bottom tier D3. Even the varsity teams at bottom tier D3s are mediocre.

Then you clearly do not follow NCAA D1-3 soccer with schools you've "never heard of" in the 2023 championship playoffs right now.

I... can't imagine caring about this. Let alone using this as a basis for college choice.

Really? So little imagination and empathy that you can’t imagine someone has different joys, loves, and goals than you? I think what you mean is you judge other people for having different priorities. I bet it scares you a little too, the thought that a kid could do what brings them joy (prioritize their activity when choosing a college) and then actually end up a happy and productive adult. Since you’ve prioritized prestige, money, and a constrained career path it is threatening to know there was another way to a good life.

Not to sidetrack things, but I know way too many baseball players who pick obscure D3 colleges to play baseball and know literally nothing about the school otherwise. There are too many conversations where the parents can tell you where it is located, that their kid can play baseball...and literally nothing else.

What majors do they offer, what are some of their special programs, how are the dorms, how did the faculty seem, talk to any of the students (other than some of the current baseball players), etc. Every single question met with a shrug.

Maybe it all works out, but there are families that have these blinders on that are pretty dramatic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it so interesting that so many kids from my DC's public MCPS high school go to these no name D3 colleges to play a sport. It's not like they are getting a full scholarship. Just seems so short sighted to pick a school with low return on investment for the privilege of playing in a mediocre league for 4 years. Some of these kids could clearly get better educations for the same price.

Wealthy parents trying to save face and not feel like they wasted ten plus years on travel sports, hotels, travel, lessons, etc. One wealthy couple we knew said their daughter was going to play soccer at an obscure D3 college in Boston. Turns out she is not even on the varsity team, she is only playing club soccer at the college.

That's not a waste if the child wanted to play and enjoyed soccer.

Can't basically anyone who played travel easily walk on a club team at a no-name lower rung D3? Don't mislead people and spin yarn about how your teen is going to college across the country to play a sport at the next level when they're going to play club, barely a step up from intramurals, at some bottom tier D3. Even the varsity teams at bottom tier D3s are mediocre.

Then you clearly do not follow NCAA D1-3 soccer with schools you've "never heard of" in the 2023 championship playoffs right now.

I... can't imagine caring about this. Let alone using this as a basis for college choice.

Really? So little imagination and empathy that you can’t imagine someone has different joys, loves, and goals than you? I think what you mean is you judge other people for having different priorities. I bet it scares you a little too, the thought that a kid could do what brings them joy (prioritize their activity when choosing a college) and then actually end up a happy and productive adult. Since you’ve prioritized prestige, money, and a constrained career path it is threatening to know there was another way to a good life.

Not to sidetrack things, but I know way too many baseball players who pick obscure D3 colleges to play baseball and know literally nothing about the school otherwise. There are too many conversations where the parents can tell you where it is located, that their kid can play baseball...and literally nothing else.

What majors do they offer, what are some of their special programs, how are the dorms, how did the faculty seem, talk to any of the students (other than some of the current baseball players), etc. Every single question met with a shrug.

Maybe it all works out, but there are families that have these blinders on that are pretty dramatic.

Do you think those parents would do that level of research for Commutable Directional State College? I think some parents just don’t get that involved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Dime a dozen high school students with fake inflated grades and 50-80 percentile SAT scores do not miraculously score 95-99.9 percentile on the LSAT. It is magical thinking to think some teen who ends up at a slacker private college turns into a fierce elbowy gunner with a 178 LSAT score hungry for HLS. Kids wired for prestige and competitiveness for law or medical school want that environment coming out of high school.

I count at least a dozen top 50 law schools whose median LSAT score is between 160 and 165.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dime a dozen high school students with fake inflated grades and 50-80 percentile SAT scores do not miraculously score 95-99.9 percentile on the LSAT. It is magical thinking to think some teen who ends up at a slacker private college turns into a fierce elbowy gunner with a 178 LSAT score hungry for HLS. Kids wired for prestige and competitiveness for law or medical school want that environment coming out of high school.

I count at least a dozen top 50 law schools whose median LSAT score is between 160 and 165.

Law schools in the 15-50 range are somewhat of a joke. Good luck with the private school undergrad debt plus another $200,000+ in law school debt to hang a shingle or make $65,000 as a junior prosecutor in flyover country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it so interesting that so many kids from my DC's public MCPS high school go to these no name D3 colleges to play a sport. It's not like they are getting a full scholarship. Just seems so short sighted to pick a school with low return on investment for the privilege of playing in a mediocre league for 4 years. Some of these kids could clearly get better educations for the same price.

Wealthy parents trying to save face and not feel like they wasted ten plus years on travel sports, hotels, travel, lessons, etc. One wealthy couple we knew said their daughter was going to play soccer at an obscure D3 college in Boston. Turns out she is not even on the varsity team, she is only playing club soccer at the college.

That's not a waste if the child wanted to play and enjoyed soccer.

Can't basically anyone who played travel easily walk on a club team at a no-name lower rung D3? Don't mislead people and spin yarn about how your teen is going to college across the country to play a sport at the next level when they're going to play club, barely a step up from intramurals, at some bottom tier D3. Even the varsity teams at bottom tier D3s are mediocre.

Then you clearly do not follow NCAA D1-3 soccer with schools you've "never heard of" in the 2023 championship playoffs right now.

I... can't imagine caring about this. Let alone using this as a basis for college choice.

Really? So little imagination and empathy that you can’t imagine someone has different joys, loves, and goals than you? I think what you mean is you judge other people for having different priorities. I bet it scares you a little too, the thought that a kid could do what brings them joy (prioritize their activity when choosing a college) and then actually end up a happy and productive adult. Since you’ve prioritized prestige, money, and a constrained career path it is threatening to know there was another way to a good life.

Not to sidetrack things, but I know way too many baseball players who pick obscure D3 colleges to play baseball and know literally nothing about the school otherwise. There are too many conversations where the parents can tell you where it is located, that their kid can play baseball...and literally nothing else.

What majors do they offer, what are some of their special programs, how are the dorms, how did the faculty seem, talk to any of the students (other than some of the current baseball players), etc. Every single question met with a shrug.

Maybe it all works out, but there are families that have these blinders on that are pretty dramatic.

This is because the kids want to play baseball. That is their choice and it is consuming. There are lots of baseball players and other athletes from schools you might find acceptable (e.g., Stanford) who it sometimes works out for, sometimes not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it so interesting that so many kids from my DC's public MCPS high school go to these no name D3 colleges to play a sport. It's not like they are getting a full scholarship. Just seems so short sighted to pick a school with low return on investment for the privilege of playing in a mediocre league for 4 years. Some of these kids could clearly get better educations for the same price.

Wealthy parents trying to save face and not feel like they wasted ten plus years on travel sports, hotels, travel, lessons, etc. One wealthy couple we knew said their daughter was going to play soccer at an obscure D3 college in Boston. Turns out she is not even on the varsity team, she is only playing club soccer at the college.

That's not a waste if the child wanted to play and enjoyed soccer.

Can't basically anyone who played travel easily walk on a club team at a no-name lower rung D3? Don't mislead people and spin yarn about how your teen is going to college across the country to play a sport at the next level when they're going to play club, barely a step up from intramurals, at some bottom tier D3. Even the varsity teams at bottom tier D3s are mediocre.

Then you clearly do not follow NCAA D1-3 soccer with schools you've "never heard of" in the 2023 championship playoffs right now.

I... can't imagine caring about this. Let alone using this as a basis for college choice.

Really? So little imagination and empathy that you can’t imagine someone has different joys, loves, and goals than you? I think what you mean is you judge other people for having different priorities. I bet it scares you a little too, the thought that a kid could do what brings them joy (prioritize their activity when choosing a college) and then actually end up a happy and productive adult. Since you’ve prioritized prestige, money, and a constrained career path it is threatening to know there was another way to a good life.

Not to sidetrack things, but I know way too many baseball players who pick obscure D3 colleges to play baseball and know literally nothing about the school otherwise. There are too many conversations where the parents can tell you where it is located, that their kid can play baseball...and literally nothing else.

What majors do they offer, what are some of their special programs, how are the dorms, how did the faculty seem, talk to any of the students (other than some of the current baseball players), etc. Every single question met with a shrug.

Maybe it all works out, but there are families that have these blinders on that are pretty dramatic.

How do you know all these ball players? And do you seriously engage in this level of questioning with parents? I can’t imagine doing so or anyone doing this with me about my DCs’ college choices. There’s a level of obsession here that may strike readers as unhealthy.

[Anonymous]

Many kids go to these colleges, see their high school friends having fun at a handful of public universities or GW/GU, get homesick, and transfer out to rejoin friends. It ends up being a waste of time. There’s a reason they have to bribe you with six-figures of scholarships to get you even consider applying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Law schools in the 15-50 range are somewhat of a joke. Good luck with the private school undergrad debt plus another $200,000+ in law school debt to hang a shingle or make $65,000 as a junior prosecutor in flyover country.

Now I know you've never worked in BigLaw.

The AmLaw 100 firms, whether headquartered in NYC/DC/Chicago/SF/LA, have satellite offices all over the US. These offices are usually not hiring from the T14, but from the top 10-20% of students at your "joke" law schools in the 15-50 range, most often from regional state flagships. At our DC firm, we hired summer associates every year not just from Georgetown, but GMU, GW, American, and Catholic. The lawyers in my class who made partner went to non-T14 schools and some outside the top 50. Once you're hired, the schools on your resume stop mattering. Then it becomes all about whether you can do the work, build a book of business, and get lucky.