Atheism is losing popularity because it won’t own it’s own sins

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Sigh. You view atheism as a belief system, and you want to compare it to your own belief system. You think it's a battle between belief systems for subscribers. Like people choose between Christianity and atheism the way they choose between Netflix and Hulu.

No.

It's more like Christianity is Netflix, Hulu is Islam, Max is Judaism, the Criterion Collection is Buddhism. And atheism is throwing out your TV.

Of course faith has an appeal, even to those who have lived without it. Especially to those who have lived without it. Religion also offers community and people crave that. But religions themselves don't always work within a person's life. It is normal for people to lose faith but then become curious about it again. It's easy to be a skeptic at 22, and it's easier to be a believer at 62.

I think Jews get it right because they support people in losing their faith within the religion. You can tell your own rabbi "I don't believe," and it's fine, you're still Jewish and nothing changes. The religion is about more than just faith, which can be hard to sustain.

Anyway, you are fighting over something that just doesn't work that way. No one is converting to atheism. They just lose faith.

It's kind of tiresome. When one thread about athiesm dies down, another one pops up. It seems like someone is just begging for someone to argue with them. I have no idea if some are from the same poster or not, but holy crap get over it. Athiests are not coming after your Christian lifestyle. A lot (if not most) really don't give a damn.

Maybe it's someone who is losing their faith and is struggling with it. It's tough to learn that everything you've believed for decades is BS.

No, my faith has remained stable, and grows even in times of hardship and sadness on earth because I have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I am grateful for the life He has given to me. No one can be taught to have a relationship with God. It’s something you come to on a personal level.

People are taught religion, but religion is not what people should center their life on-it’s their personal belief in Christ that brings joy and peace. Religion doesn’t always bring peace. God does.

I wonder what He thinks about You obsessing over atheism. On a Sunday morning.

He loves me- and you.

Which is exactly why he stays hidden while children die. Makes perfect sense.

And the atheists who killed 100+ million of their own people are completely ignored by you and other atheists because?

Men kill children, not God.

Why can’t men stop killing children? They have a moral code inside them they should be able to follow?

Atheists claim they can choose right from wrong- is that just atheists, but not all humans?

Can’t atheists show the rest of humanity how to be good and moral? It’s really needed.

Maybe write some books or open some atheist centers that can teach these things to other humans. Why are not helping humanity become better?

This is the same BS point as in the OP. It’s a complete fallacy. None of those things were done in the name of atheism.

Just in the same way, the crusades were not done in the name of not believing in Vishnu.

You are the one who believes in something that should be different if it was moral. It’s the classic problem of evil. It’s one of the great realizations and reasons to not believe in an omnipotent god. Because you realize that if he did exist, he would be horrible and that is contradictory. So must not be true.

So even though religion has flaws, in your opinion it has done nothing good?

And governments that mandated atheism had nothing to do with atheists?

And atheists know how to be good, moral people and help their fellow man by their own moral code, but have no interest in helping others and the world by explaining to others about this moral code that exists inside everyone?

You don’t have a responsibility to help your fellow man?

Your implication that atheists are immoral makes you a jerk. Because you know that’s not true. And you know that secular humanism is based on treating other people the way you want to be treated, which is as close to objective morality as we know exists.

Your belief system, however, includes a being who could stop all of the pain and suffering in the world in an instant, and chooses not to.

And you’re going to try and claim atheism is immoral? Wow that’s some twisted pretzel of logic there.

If humans have everything inside them to be good and moral- why aren’t they?

First, because morality isn’t objective. Second most humans.- and most I mean the vast majority - are what most other humans would consider good and moral

Yet an atheist answered that their moral code is whatever they think is right, based on their feelings.

People don’t have the same feelings and opinions about morals and ethics. At all.

Atheists state they have no defined rules or ethics or morals. No atheist subscribes to the same thoughts about anything except they deny God exists.

I don’t get how that is a moral code or ethics?

Are all atheists Secular Humanists?

Do you really not understand how it works for people to decide for themselves - based on their beliefs, their environment, their circumstances, their upbringing, etc - what is right and wrong?

So everyone who is an atheist will ignore 100 million dead?

Bad people kill people. Sometimes those bad people are atheist. Usually though, they are religious.

That’s a pretty strong statement.

Not surprising. Most people are poorly educated in this country and also unable to consider viewpoints which contradict their position.

This poster probably has never even heard of the Holodomor.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Ethics and morals and the philosophies driving them have been the subject of thinkers since before the birth of Christ. See Socrates and virtue ethics. Some of you act like humans had no sense of right and wrong before Christianity.

The world before Christ was a horror show.

And the world since is.... what?

Christians trying to force their beliefs on others. Like right now in the US.

Atheists in China and Russia mandated atheism; China still does.

You ignore that, why?

DP. Which is Brierly's point--atheists don't acknowledge their own wrongdoing.

Guys you understand that the most authoritarian version of communism is what is to blame there - an absolutist centralized government. Yeah, that's bad! I think there are forms of communism and centralized planning that can be good, but clearly these are a few major examples of it going horribly wrong! I'd add Cuba there, too, though they do have religion to go with it.

[Anonymous]

Also I've actually seen no proof that atheism is on the decline.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Ethics and morals and the philosophies driving them have been the subject of thinkers since before the birth of Christ. See Socrates and virtue ethics. Some of you act like humans had no sense of right and wrong before Christianity.

The world before Christ was a horror show.

And the world since is.... what?

Christians trying to force their beliefs on others. Like right now in the US.

Atheists in China and Russia mandated atheism; China still does.

You ignore that, why?

DP. Which is Brierly's point--atheists don't acknowledge their own wrongdoing.

Guys you understand that the most authoritarian version of communism is what is to blame there - an absolutist centralized government. Yeah, that's bad! I think there are forms of communism and centralized planning that can be good, but clearly these are a few major examples of it going horribly wrong! I'd add Cuba there, too, though they do have religion to go with it.

PP here, and I mean, as a lefty I agree some centralized planning can be good. But that's not what we're discussing here. We're discussing state atheism and how it's been responsible for killing millions over the past century.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also I've actually seen no proof that atheism is on the decline.

And the thread isn’t saying that- it’s specifically talking about New Atheism and it’s proponents, who actively oppose religion and declare that religion hasn’t added one thing of value to the world.

There are people who don’t believe in God that are good people. There are people who believe in God that are bad people because they don’t actually do what God says they should do.

It’s not all or nothing and when the New Atheists were found to be lacking and rigid, people who formerly embraced them denounced them and left their brand of atheism. That has been explained multiple times on this thread. Probably on every page.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Ethics and morals and the philosophies driving them have been the subject of thinkers since before the birth of Christ. See Socrates and virtue ethics. Some of you act like humans had no sense of right and wrong before Christianity.

The world before Christ was a horror show.

And the world since is.... what?

Christians trying to force their beliefs on others. Like right now in the US.

Atheists in China and Russia mandated atheism; China still does.

You ignore that, why?

DP. Which is Brierly's point--atheists don't acknowledge their own wrongdoing.

Guys you understand that the most authoritarian version of communism is what is to blame there - an absolutist centralized government. Yeah, that's bad! I think there are forms of communism and centralized planning that can be good, but clearly these are a few major examples of it going horribly wrong! I'd add Cuba there, too, though they do have religion to go with it.

PP here, and I mean, as a lefty I agree some centralized planning can be good. But that's not what we're discussing here. We're discussing state atheism and how it's been responsible for killing millions over the past century.

The atheism is pretty incidental to the communism in these examples. The communism is what is driving the death - not the atheism. At least from my perspective. I don't think you can find a fully-fledged top down communist state without finding a lot of human suffering - history seems to bear that out - but I do see plenty of atheism that doesn't lead to mass death. I haven't seen a government that is, say, atheistic but also capitalistic, that leads to mass starvation of its citizenry, for example. Please point me to examples if I am missing them.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Ethics and morals and the philosophies driving them have been the subject of thinkers since before the birth of Christ. See Socrates and virtue ethics. Some of you act like humans had no sense of right and wrong before Christianity.

The world before Christ was a horror show.

And the world since is.... what?

Christians trying to force their beliefs on others. Like right now in the US.

Atheists in China and Russia mandated atheism; China still does.

You ignore that, why?

DP. Which is Brierly's point--atheists don't acknowledge their own wrongdoing.

Guys you understand that the most authoritarian version of communism is what is to blame there - an absolutist centralized government. Yeah, that's bad! I think there are forms of communism and centralized planning that can be good, but clearly these are a few major examples of it going horribly wrong! I'd add Cuba there, too, though they do have religion to go with it.

PP here, and I mean, as a lefty I agree some centralized planning can be good. But that's not what we're discussing here. We're discussing state atheism and how it's been responsible for killing millions over the past century.

The atheism is pretty incidental to the communism in these examples. The communism is what is driving the death - not the atheism. At least from my perspective. I don't think you can find a fully-fledged top down communist state without finding a lot of human suffering - history seems to bear that out - but I do see plenty of atheism that doesn't lead to mass death. I haven't seen a government that is, say, atheistic but also capitalistic, that leads to mass starvation of its citizenry, for example. Please point me to examples if I am missing them.

Nearly all Communist states that have ever existed have practiced state atheism.

Communism—theoretically, ideologically, and historically—opposes God and all forms of religion.

Marx’s outlook was that religion is a symptom of the evil bourgeois society. He predicted that communism would eliminate the need for religion: once freed from capitalist oppression, people would no longer need the illusory relief they sought in artificial faith.

“It was Dostoevsky, once again, who drew from the French Revolution and its seeming hatred of the Church the lesson that ‘revolution must necessarily begin with atheism.’ That is absolutely true. But the world had never before known a godlessness as organized, militarized, and tenaciously malevolent as that practiced by Marxism. Within the philosophical system of Marx and Lenin, and at the heart of their psychology, hatred of God is the principal driving force, more fundamental than all their political and economic pretensions. Militant atheism is not merely incidental or marginal to Communist policy; it is not a side effect, but the central pivot. To achieve its diabolical ends. Communism needs to control a population devoid of religious and national feeling, and this entails the destruction of faith and nationhood.”

-MAY 10, 1983
Acceptance Address by Mr. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

https://www.templetonprize.org/laureate-sub/solzhenitsyn-acceptance-speech/

THE Templeton Prize honors individuals whose exemplary achievements advance Sir John Templeton’s philanthropic vision: harnessing the power of the sciences to explore the deepest questions of the universe and humankind’s place and purpose within it.

link to other Templeton Prize laureates:

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Templeton-Prize

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Ethics and morals and the philosophies driving them have been the subject of thinkers since before the birth of Christ. See Socrates and virtue ethics. Some of you act like humans had no sense of right and wrong before Christianity.

The world before Christ was a horror show.

And the world since is.... what?

Christians trying to force their beliefs on others. Like right now in the US.

Atheists in China and Russia mandated atheism; China still does.

You ignore that, why?

DP. Which is Brierly's point--atheists don't acknowledge their own wrongdoing.

Guys you understand that the most authoritarian version of communism is what is to blame there - an absolutist centralized government. Yeah, that's bad! I think there are forms of communism and centralized planning that can be good, but clearly these are a few major examples of it going horribly wrong! I'd add Cuba there, too, though they do have religion to go with it.

PP here, and I mean, as a lefty I agree some centralized planning can be good. But that's not what we're discussing here. We're discussing state atheism and how it's been responsible for killing millions over the past century.

The atheism is pretty incidental to the communism in these examples. The communism is what is driving the death - not the atheism. At least from my perspective. I don't think you can find a fully-fledged top down communist state without finding a lot of human suffering - history seems to bear that out - but I do see plenty of atheism that doesn't lead to mass death. I haven't seen a government that is, say, atheistic but also capitalistic, that leads to mass starvation of its citizenry, for example. Please point me to examples if I am missing them.

Nearly all Communist states that have ever existed have practiced state atheism.

Communism—theoretically, ideologically, and historically—opposes God and all forms of religion.

Marx’s outlook was that religion is a symptom of the evil bourgeois society. He predicted that communism would eliminate the need for religion: once freed from capitalist oppression, people would no longer need the illusory relief they sought in artificial faith.

“It was Dostoevsky, once again, who drew from the French Revolution and its seeming hatred of the Church the lesson that ‘revolution must necessarily begin with atheism.’ That is absolutely true. But the world had never before known a godlessness as organized, militarized, and tenaciously malevolent as that practiced by Marxism. Within the philosophical system of Marx and Lenin, and at the heart of their psychology, hatred of God is the principal driving force, more fundamental than all their political and economic pretensions. Militant atheism is not merely incidental or marginal to Communist policy; it is not a side effect, but the central pivot. To achieve its diabolical ends. Communism needs to control a population devoid of religious and national feeling, and this entails the destruction of faith and nationhood.”

-MAY 10, 1983
Acceptance Address by Mr. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

https://www.templetonprize.org/laureate-sub/solzhenitsyn-acceptance-speech/

THE Templeton Prize honors individuals whose exemplary achievements advance Sir John Templeton’s philanthropic vision: harnessing the power of the sciences to explore the deepest questions of the universe and humankind’s place and purpose within it.

link to other Templeton Prize laureates:

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Templeton-Prize

I guess you're right, it's impossible to be an atheist who doesn't want to murder millions of others.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Ethics and morals and the philosophies driving them have been the subject of thinkers since before the birth of Christ. See Socrates and virtue ethics. Some of you act like humans had no sense of right and wrong before Christianity.

The world before Christ was a horror show.

And the world since is.... what?

Christians trying to force their beliefs on others. Like right now in the US.

Atheists in China and Russia mandated atheism; China still does.

You ignore that, why?

DP. Which is Brierly's point--atheists don't acknowledge their own wrongdoing.

Guys you understand that the most authoritarian version of communism is what is to blame there - an absolutist centralized government. Yeah, that's bad! I think there are forms of communism and centralized planning that can be good, but clearly these are a few major examples of it going horribly wrong! I'd add Cuba there, too, though they do have religion to go with it.

PP here, and I mean, as a lefty I agree some centralized planning can be good. But that's not what we're discussing here. We're discussing state atheism and how it's been responsible for killing millions over the past century.

The atheism is pretty incidental to the communism in these examples. The communism is what is driving the death - not the atheism. At least from my perspective. I don't think you can find a fully-fledged top down communist state without finding a lot of human suffering - history seems to bear that out - but I do see plenty of atheism that doesn't lead to mass death. I haven't seen a government that is, say, atheistic but also capitalistic, that leads to mass starvation of its citizenry, for example. Please point me to examples if I am missing them.

Nearly all Communist states that have ever existed have practiced state atheism.

Communism—theoretically, ideologically, and historically—opposes God and all forms of religion.

Marx’s outlook was that religion is a symptom of the evil bourgeois society. He predicted that communism would eliminate the need for religion: once freed from capitalist oppression, people would no longer need the illusory relief they sought in artificial faith.

“It was Dostoevsky, once again, who drew from the French Revolution and its seeming hatred of the Church the lesson that ‘revolution must necessarily begin with atheism.’ That is absolutely true. But the world had never before known a godlessness as organized, militarized, and tenaciously malevolent as that practiced by Marxism. Within the philosophical system of Marx and Lenin, and at the heart of their psychology, hatred of God is the principal driving force, more fundamental than all their political and economic pretensions. Militant atheism is not merely incidental or marginal to Communist policy; it is not a side effect, but the central pivot. To achieve its diabolical ends. Communism needs to control a population devoid of religious and national feeling, and this entails the destruction of faith and nationhood.”

-MAY 10, 1983
Acceptance Address by Mr. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

https://www.templetonprize.org/laureate-sub/solzhenitsyn-acceptance-speech/

THE Templeton Prize honors individuals whose exemplary achievements advance Sir John Templeton’s philanthropic vision: harnessing the power of the sciences to explore the deepest questions of the universe and humankind’s place and purpose within it.

link to other Templeton Prize laureates:

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Templeton-Prize

I guess you're right, it's impossible to be an atheist who doesn't want to murder millions of others.

If that’s what you are getting from this thread- you don’t understand what’s being discussed.

We are discussing New Atheists, who actively oppose religion, deny religion has ever had a positive impact on the world, and deny that state atheism has killed 100 million plus people.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Ethics and morals and the philosophies driving them have been the subject of thinkers since before the birth of Christ. See Socrates and virtue ethics. Some of you act like humans had no sense of right and wrong before Christianity.

The world before Christ was a horror show.

And the world since is.... what?

Christians trying to force their beliefs on others. Like right now in the US.

Atheists in China and Russia mandated atheism; China still does.

You ignore that, why?

DP. Which is Brierly's point--atheists don't acknowledge their own wrongdoing.

Guys you understand that the most authoritarian version of communism is what is to blame there - an absolutist centralized government. Yeah, that's bad! I think there are forms of communism and centralized planning that can be good, but clearly these are a few major examples of it going horribly wrong! I'd add Cuba there, too, though they do have religion to go with it.

PP here, and I mean, as a lefty I agree some centralized planning can be good. But that's not what we're discussing here. We're discussing state atheism and how it's been responsible for killing millions over the past century.

The atheism is pretty incidental to the communism in these examples. The communism is what is driving the death - not the atheism. At least from my perspective. I don't think you can find a fully-fledged top down communist state without finding a lot of human suffering - history seems to bear that out - but I do see plenty of atheism that doesn't lead to mass death. I haven't seen a government that is, say, atheistic but also capitalistic, that leads to mass starvation of its citizenry, for example. Please point me to examples if I am missing them.

These are the countries that either currently or formerly mandated atheism through the state.

Mexico had a go with state atheism that was extremely harrowing, reading about it is very interesting/scary, and I feel like it’s either intentionally hidden or not given the attention it deserves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let's be honest here, another reason the New Atheists went out of vogue is that Dawkins, Hitchens and Harris are (were in Hitchens' case) kinda d!cks. Harris hung out with Charles Murray and is pretty much an Islamophobe. Hitchens was a great writer early in his career but ended up a loudmouth who sensationalized poorly researched material.Dawkins is just pretty mean. And then we have DCUM's Angry Atheist is a troll and a d!ck.

None of these people make atheism look appealing, either by argument or by their example of what it might look like to lead a secular life.

So do people stop being religious because the DCUM Atheist Hater is a dick?

No one becomes an atheist because of some "cool" atheist.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Sigh. You view atheism as a belief system, and you want to compare it to your own belief system. You think it's a battle between belief systems for subscribers. Like people choose between Christianity and atheism the way they choose between Netflix and Hulu.

No.

It's more like Christianity is Netflix, Hulu is Islam, Max is Judaism, the Criterion Collection is Buddhism. And atheism is throwing out your TV.

Of course faith has an appeal, even to those who have lived without it. Especially to those who have lived without it. Religion also offers community and people crave that. But religions themselves don't always work within a person's life. It is normal for people to lose faith but then become curious about it again. It's easy to be a skeptic at 22, and it's easier to be a believer at 62.

I think Jews get it right because they support people in losing their faith within the religion. You can tell your own rabbi "I don't believe," and it's fine, you're still Jewish and nothing changes. The religion is about more than just faith, which can be hard to sustain.

Anyway, you are fighting over something that just doesn't work that way. No one is converting to atheism. They just lose faith.

It's kind of tiresome. When one thread about athiesm dies down, another one pops up. It seems like someone is just begging for someone to argue with them. I have no idea if some are from the same poster or not, but holy crap get over it. Athiests are not coming after your Christian lifestyle. A lot (if not most) really don't give a damn.

Maybe it's someone who is losing their faith and is struggling with it. It's tough to learn that everything you've believed for decades is BS.

No, my faith has remained stable, and grows even in times of hardship and sadness on earth because I have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I am grateful for the life He has given to me. No one can be taught to have a relationship with God. It’s something you come to on a personal level.

People are taught religion, but religion is not what people should center their life on-it’s their personal belief in Christ that brings joy and peace. Religion doesn’t always bring peace. God does.

I wonder what He thinks about You obsessing over atheism. On a Sunday morning.

He loves me- and you.

Which is exactly why he stays hidden while children die. Makes perfect sense.

And the atheists who killed 100+ million of their own people are completely ignored by you and other atheists because?

Men kill children, not God.

Why can’t men stop killing children? They have a moral code inside them they should be able to follow?

Atheists claim they can choose right from wrong- is that just atheists, but not all humans?

Can’t atheists show the rest of humanity how to be good and moral? It’s really needed.

Maybe write some books or open some atheist centers that can teach these things to other humans. Why are not helping humanity become better?

This is the same BS point as in the OP. It’s a complete fallacy. None of those things were done in the name of atheism.

Just in the same way, the crusades were not done in the name of not believing in Vishnu.

You are the one who believes in something that should be different if it was moral. It’s the classic problem of evil. It’s one of the great realizations and reasons to not believe in an omnipotent god. Because you realize that if he did exist, he would be horrible and that is contradictory. So must not be true.

So even though religion has flaws, in your opinion it has done nothing good?

And governments that mandated atheism had nothing to do with atheists?

And atheists know how to be good, moral people and help their fellow man by their own moral code, but have no interest in helping others and the world by explaining to others about this moral code that exists inside everyone?

You don’t have a responsibility to help your fellow man?

Your implication that atheists are immoral makes you a jerk. Because you know that’s not true. And you know that secular humanism is based on treating other people the way you want to be treated, which is as close to objective morality as we know exists.

Your belief system, however, includes a being who could stop all of the pain and suffering in the world in an instant, and chooses not to.

And you’re going to try and claim atheism is immoral? Wow that’s some twisted pretzel of logic there.

If humans have everything inside them to be good and moral- why aren’t they?

First, because morality isn’t objective. Second most humans.- and most I mean the vast majority - are what most other humans would consider good and moral

Yet an atheist answered that their moral code is whatever they think is right, based on their feelings.

People don’t have the same feelings and opinions about morals and ethics. At all.

Atheists state they have no defined rules or ethics or morals. No atheist subscribes to the same thoughts about anything except they deny God exists.

I don’t get how that is a moral code or ethics?

Are all atheists Secular Humanists?

Do you really not understand how it works for people to decide for themselves - based on their beliefs, their environment, their circumstances, their upbringing, etc - what is right and wrong?

So everyone who is an atheist will ignore 100 million dead?

Bad people kill people. Sometimes those bad people are atheist. Usually though, they are religious.

That’s a pretty strong statement.

And pretty accurate.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Ethics and morals and the philosophies driving them have been the subject of thinkers since before the birth of Christ. See Socrates and virtue ethics. Some of you act like humans had no sense of right and wrong before Christianity.

The world before Christ was a horror show.

And the world since is.... what?

Christians trying to force their beliefs on others. Like right now in the US.

Atheists in China and Russia mandated atheism; China still does.

You ignore that, why?

DP. Which is Brierly's point--atheists don't acknowledge their own wrongdoing.

Guys you understand that the most authoritarian version of communism is what is to blame there - an absolutist centralized government. Yeah, that's bad! I think there are forms of communism and centralized planning that can be good, but clearly these are a few major examples of it going horribly wrong! I'd add Cuba there, too, though they do have religion to go with it.

PP here, and I mean, as a lefty I agree some centralized planning can be good. But that's not what we're discussing here. We're discussing state atheism and how it's been responsible for killing millions over the past century.

The atheism is pretty incidental to the communism in these examples. The communism is what is driving the death - not the atheism. At least from my perspective. I don't think you can find a fully-fledged top down communist state without finding a lot of human suffering - history seems to bear that out - but I do see plenty of atheism that doesn't lead to mass death. I haven't seen a government that is, say, atheistic but also capitalistic, that leads to mass starvation of its citizenry, for example. Please point me to examples if I am missing them.

I'm pp but not 15:00. Communism is both an economic and political form of government (and an historical theory, if you're into dialectical materialism). You can't carve out the politics, and I don't think you're trying to do that.

Politics by definition embody morals and values. Saying you need to send the city dwellers back to the countryside for reeducation, for example, is a political as well as an economic position. What morals/values lie behind these politics? Atheism. Not religion, because that's been forbidden.

As for your second point, there are plenty of religious governments that haven't lead to mass death either.

I'm not sure about your last point--probably the majority of modern governments are secular as well as capitalistic. But we're still stuck with tribal rivalries that wipe out hundreds of thousands, like the Tutsis an Hutus to name one, and we probably will be stuck with tribal/patriotic rivalries forever. Or look at the East India Company, which ruled India in the name of corporate capitalism and used its own armies to wipe out hundreds of thousands in war and probably another million during famines in the late 1700s. Or look at the excesses of the French Revolution, which killed many people in addition to priests and had no particular anti-capitalist bent. Secular capitalism is no guarantee of peace.

[Anonymous]

Why would an atheist in the DC area have any connection to an atheist on the other side of the world? They are just two people who don't believe in supernatural forces. Nothing more.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sigh. You view atheism as a belief system, and you want to compare it to your own belief system. You think it's a battle between belief systems for subscribers. Like people choose between Christianity and atheism the way they choose between Netflix and Hulu.

No.

It's more like Christianity is Netflix, Hulu is Islam, Max is Judaism, the Criterion Collection is Buddhism. And atheism is throwing out your TV.

Of course faith has an appeal, even to those who have lived without it. Especially to those who have lived without it. Religion also offers community and people crave that. But religions themselves don't always work within a person's life. It is normal for people to lose faith but then become curious about it again. It's easy to be a skeptic at 22, and it's easier to be a believer at 62.

I think Jews get it right because they support people in losing their faith within the religion. You can tell your own rabbi "I don't believe," and it's fine, you're still Jewish and nothing changes. The religion is about more than just faith, which can be hard to sustain.

Anyway, you are fighting over something that just doesn't work that way. No one is converting to atheism. They just lose faith.

It's kind of tiresome. When one thread about athiesm dies down, another one pops up. It seems like someone is just begging for someone to argue with them. I have no idea if some are from the same poster or not, but holy crap get over it. Athiests are not coming after your Christian lifestyle. A lot (if not most) really don't give a damn.

Maybe it's someone who is losing their faith and is struggling with it. It's tough to learn that everything you've believed for decades is BS.

No, my faith has remained stable, and grows even in times of hardship and sadness on earth because I have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I am grateful for the life He has given to me. No one can be taught to have a relationship with God. It’s something you come to on a personal level.

People are taught religion, but religion is not what people should center their life on-it’s their personal belief in Christ that brings joy and peace. Religion doesn’t always bring peace. God does.

I wonder what He thinks about You obsessing over atheism. On a Sunday morning.

He loves me- and you.

Which is exactly why he stays hidden while children die. Makes perfect sense.

And the atheists who killed 100+ million of their own people are completely ignored by you and other atheists because?

Men kill children, not God.

Why can’t men stop killing children? They have a moral code inside them they should be able to follow?

Atheists claim they can choose right from wrong- is that just atheists, but not all humans?

Can’t atheists show the rest of humanity how to be good and moral? It’s really needed.

Maybe write some books or open some atheist centers that can teach these things to other humans. Why are not helping humanity become better?

This is the same BS point as in the OP. It’s a complete fallacy. None of those things were done in the name of atheism.

Just in the same way, the crusades were not done in the name of not believing in Vishnu.

You are the one who believes in something that should be different if it was moral. It’s the classic problem of evil. It’s one of the great realizations and reasons to not believe in an omnipotent god. Because you realize that if he did exist, he would be horrible and that is contradictory. So must not be true.

So even though religion has flaws, in your opinion it has done nothing good?

And governments that mandated atheism had nothing to do with atheists?

And atheists know how to be good, moral people and help their fellow man by their own moral code, but have no interest in helping others and the world by explaining to others about this moral code that exists inside everyone?

You don’t have a responsibility to help your fellow man?

Your implication that atheists are immoral makes you a jerk. Because you know that’s not true. And you know that secular humanism is based on treating other people the way you want to be treated, which is as close to objective morality as we know exists.

Your belief system, however, includes a being who could stop all of the pain and suffering in the world in an instant, and chooses not to.

And you’re going to try and claim atheism is immoral? Wow that’s some twisted pretzel of logic there.

If humans have everything inside them to be good and moral- why aren’t they?

First, because morality isn’t objective. Second most humans.- and most I mean the vast majority - are what most other humans would consider good and moral

Yet an atheist answered that their moral code is whatever they think is right, based on their feelings.

People don’t have the same feelings and opinions about morals and ethics. At all.

Atheists state they have no defined rules or ethics or morals. No atheist subscribes to the same thoughts about anything except they deny God exists.

I don’t get how that is a moral code or ethics?

Are all atheists Secular Humanists?

Do you really not understand how it works for people to decide for themselves - based on their beliefs, their environment, their circumstances, their upbringing, etc - what is right and wrong?

So everyone who is an atheist will ignore 100 million dead?

Bad people kill people. Sometimes those bad people are atheist. Usually though, they are religious.

That’s a pretty strong statement.

And pretty accurate.

Only because we didn't have declared atheist governments until 1917. But they're doing a great job catching up, just look at Ukraine.