Michigan vs. Wisconsin

[Anonymous]

Both great. U of MN is also pretty great, a step down but with so much merit available to OOS. A step down but at half the cost? A deal many are willing to make

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wisconsin has kids from every state and a lot of international students. I literally run into Wisconsin grads everywhere including random run ins on international vacations. There is a large East Coast presence and a lot of Jews. There is not a lot of African American diversity. The campus is beautiful and surrounded by lakes, trails, and the Capitol. Many of the programs are highly ranked. The business school churns out more Fortune 500 CEOs than any school, including Harvard. My husband is one of them. The football and sports scene is awesome.

Michigan is higher ranked but a pretty equal education. The campus is different but also has a great sports scene.

7 ceos out of the f500 are wisco

12 are Michigan alums

6 are form Iowa state

Wisco is closer to Iowa state on this metric than Michigan

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What career or life goal do you think you can get from Michigan that you can’t get from Wisconsin? Who cares about their relative rankings.

It’s significantly tougher to break into top tier firms in finance, consulting and tech from wisco than Michigan

I prefer wisco but Michigan has way better recruiting

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Both great. U of MN is also pretty great, a step down but with so much merit available to OOS. A step down but at half the cost? A deal many are willing to make

My DC, who got into WI, took advantage of UMN merit money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Both great. U of MN is also pretty great, a step down but with so much merit available to OOS. A step down but at half the cost? A deal many are willing to make

mN has tuition reciprocity with wisco so so many of minnesotas best kids go down to Madison

[Anonymous]

Both schools provide excellent education.


OOS WI tuition is $38K
OOS MI tuition is $55K

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both great. U of MN is also pretty great, a step down but with so much merit available to OOS. A step down but at half the cost? A deal many are willing to make

mN has tuition reciprocity with wisco so so many of minnesotas best kids go down to Madison

That works if you’re in MN or Wi. But I’m in NYC so it’s OOS all the way. More and more I see kids taking the MN deal and saving their 529 for later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wisconsin is Michigan’s number 1 back up. Nobody who gets into both chooses Wisconsin. Not saying it isn’t a good school though.

Wisconsin is also less diverse racially and geographically. It has virtually no African American students.

My kid’s first day on campus we went to the university book store. There is a montage photo of student faces - hundreds of them - as you go down to the basement level. I was struck by the sea of whiteness. It really was startling. However, my kid has had a fantastic experience there, academically and socially. Madison is an awesome town!

Lol. Michigan is not exactly a sea of diversity either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What career or life goal do you think you can get from Michigan that you can’t get from Wisconsin? Who cares about their relative rankings.

It’s significantly tougher to break into top tier firms in finance, consulting and tech from wisco than Michigan

I prefer wisco but Michigan has way better recruiting

Can you give some examples?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:UW alum 15 years out. I've done well in my career and LOVED my time there. A universally beloved undergraduate experience creates a strong and passionate alumni network.

Endowments are a good indicator of student satisfaction. Wisconsin and Michigan are similarly sized institutions. Wisconsin’s endowment is approx. 3.5 billion. Michigan’s endowment is over 17 billion. So you tell me, where are the “passionate” graduates of Wisconsin when it comes to giving back?

Sounds like OP is considering the wrong schools. Texas and Texas A&M have the largest endowments by far, so are clearly the best.

Not really:

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/the-short-list-college/articles/10-universities-with-the-biggest-endowments

The endowment for the University of Texas is almost $43 billion. It's the richest public university by far and second only to Harvard when private schools are included. Michigan isn't even close with only $17 billion.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2023/02/17/college-endowments-dropped-fiscal-year-2022

The OP stated that both Texas AND Texas A&M had much larger endowments than Michigan. That was not accurate. TAM has a similar endowment to Michigan with many more campuses and students to educate. Furthermore, Texas has over 430,000 students on 14 campuses, a few bigger than most state flagships, using that same endowment. Michigan has only 3 campuses and less than 15% in comparison to the amount of students at UT. Ann Arbor also gets, by far, the largest share of the endowment proceeds.

Here is a listing of the 4 largest public university endowments:

Institution State Endowment[3]
(billions USD - FY2022)
University of Texas System Texas $42.668
Texas A&M University System[b] Texas $18.243
University of Michigan Michigan $17.347
University of California System[c] California $15.418

No public is close to the University of Texas system.

This isn't about how endowment funds are distributed or used. The PP at 21:03 implied that Michigan's large endowment means it has the most satisfied students. As you and others have noted, the calculus of endowment size is considerably more complicated than that and impacted by a wide variety of factors, not the least of which is the average wealth of students who are admitted and choose to attend in the first place. A (slightly) better measure might be the alumni giving rate. Not surprisingly, that category is dominated by expensive private universities. The top public is neither Michigan or Wisconsin--it's William and Mary.

https://news.wm.edu/2022/09/12/wm-remains-top-public-university-for-alumni-giving-in-u-s-news-rankings/

It simply means that Michigan’s graduates give back more to their Alma Mater than Wisconsin’s
Nowhere did the OP say otherwise. They are similarly sized schools with a huge endowment difference. That’s it.

You seem dense. The endowment size alone could reflect endowment spending, investment performance, and business decisions made 50-100 years ago much more than recent alumni giving. Focusing on participate rates makes more sense.

You know very little about Michigan obviously. Michigan made a concerted effort to increase their endowment about 30 years ago when it became obvious that the state was not properly funding the school. There have been numerous campaigns to strengthen the endowment since then. Participation rates are cute, but it takes big bucks to maintain a school. In the meantime we’re comparing Michigan to Wisconsin, not some smallish private LAC type school. Try to focus on that obvious fact and quit with the ad hominem attacks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What career or life goal do you think you can get from Michigan that you can’t get from Wisconsin? Who cares about their relative rankings.

It’s significantly tougher to break into top tier firms in finance, consulting and tech from wisco than Michigan

I prefer wisco but Michigan has way better recruiting

Can you give some examples?

Here’s a prime example:

https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/top-feeders-banking

Michigan #3. Wisconsin not in the top 30.

[Anonymous]

Michigan grad here. I have a very slight preference form Madison over Ann Arbor and a more significant preference for Michigan's campus over Wisconsin's. I have visited most of the major state universities. The one most like Michigan is Wisconsin. The one most like Wisconsin is Michigan. I could see choosing either one. I chose Michigan, partly because of prestige/rankings and particly because Michigan does a better job of creating small communities within a larger university. For example, there is no equivalent to the Michigan Residential College (which is sort of like a small liberal arts college) at Wisconsin.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:UW alum 15 years out. I've done well in my career and LOVED my time there. A universally beloved undergraduate experience creates a strong and passionate alumni network.

Endowments are a good indicator of student satisfaction. Wisconsin and Michigan are similarly sized institutions. Wisconsin’s endowment is approx. 3.5 billion. Michigan’s endowment is over 17 billion. So you tell me, where are the “passionate” graduates of Wisconsin when it comes to giving back?

Sounds like OP is considering the wrong schools. Texas and Texas A&M have the largest endowments by far, so are clearly the best.

Not really:

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/the-short-list-college/articles/10-universities-with-the-biggest-endowments

The endowment for the University of Texas is almost $43 billion. It's the richest public university by far and second only to Harvard when private schools are included. Michigan isn't even close with only $17 billion.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2023/02/17/college-endowments-dropped-fiscal-year-2022

The OP stated that both Texas AND Texas A&M had much larger endowments than Michigan. That was not accurate. TAM has a similar endowment to Michigan with many more campuses and students to educate. Furthermore, Texas has over 430,000 students on 14 campuses, a few bigger than most state flagships, using that same endowment. Michigan has only 3 campuses and less than 15% in comparison to the amount of students at UT. Ann Arbor also gets, by far, the largest share of the endowment proceeds.

Here is a listing of the 4 largest public university endowments:

Institution State Endowment[3]
(billions USD - FY2022)
University of Texas System Texas $42.668
Texas A&M University System[b] Texas $18.243
University of Michigan Michigan $17.347
University of California System[c] California $15.418

No public is close to the University of Texas system.

This isn't about how endowment funds are distributed or used. The PP at 21:03 implied that Michigan's large endowment means it has the most satisfied students. As you and others have noted, the calculus of endowment size is considerably more complicated than that and impacted by a wide variety of factors, not the least of which is the average wealth of students who are admitted and choose to attend in the first place. A (slightly) better measure might be the alumni giving rate. Not surprisingly, that category is dominated by expensive private universities. The top public is neither Michigan or Wisconsin--it's William and Mary.

https://news.wm.edu/2022/09/12/wm-remains-top-public-university-for-alumni-giving-in-u-s-news-rankings/

It simply means that Michigan’s graduates give back more to their Alma Mater than Wisconsin’s
Nowhere did the OP say otherwise. They are similarly sized schools with a huge endowment difference. That’s it.

One could also argue that U of Michigan is in a failing state and needs to maintain a large endowment to account for declining public funds and declining state tax revenue, more so that its peer institutions, hence more fundraising efforts. Alumni are used as their ATM.

Or one can simply look up the facts

https://record.umich.edu/articles/state-budget-has-more-u-m-funding-scholarship-support/

Other public schools are/have been making large efforts to increase their endowments as well. Michigan, as usual, was just leading the way.

Btw, Texas’ huge endowment growth has everything to do with west Texas oil rights enjoyed by the university system. Very little to do with alumni donations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Michigan grad here. I have a very slight preference form Madison over Ann Arbor and a more significant preference for Michigan's campus over Wisconsin's. I have visited most of the major state universities. The one most like Michigan is Wisconsin. The one most like Wisconsin is Michigan. I could see choosing either one. I chose Michigan, partly because of prestige/rankings and particly because Michigan does a better job of creating small communities within a larger university. For example, there is no equivalent to the Michigan Residential College (which is sort of like a small liberal arts college) at Wisconsin.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Michigan grad here. I have a very slight preference form Madison over Ann Arbor and a more significant preference for Michigan's campus over Wisconsin's. I have visited most of the major state universities. The one most like Michigan is Wisconsin. The one most like Wisconsin is Michigan. I could see choosing either one. I chose Michigan, partly because of prestige/rankings and particly because Michigan does a better job of creating small communities within a larger university. For example, there is no equivalent to the Michigan Residential College (which is sort of like a small liberal arts college) at Wisconsin.

Wisconsin has been moving towards those types of residential opportunities over the past 10/15 years, because Michigan's is so successful.