Open Marriage with kids

[Anonymous]

Don’t expose your kids to your lifestyle when they are in their minor years. There’s not really much upside and lots of downsides.

I’d feel comfortable discussing it once they were mature adults in their own relationships.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Having hobbies you share with friends is different from meeting your bang partner for a hook up and you know it.

Why? Someone who golfs for 8 hours every weekend is a better parent than someone who spends say 8 hours a month with their bang partner?

I don't think either of them is winning parenting awards.

When you have young kids, your focus should be those kids. Of course you can have friends and hobbies, but they can't be prioritized over your kids because your kids need you more. What you give them in childhood forms the foundation for their entire life. It's really important and worth missing out on some golf or only seeing your friends a couple nights a month so that you can be fully present. People also step back at work to be their for their kids. No one is saying that an open relationship is worse than being an absent parent in other ways.

But the logistics of an open relationship absolutely pose issues in terms of being very present for your kid. Especially in a situation like OP's where it sounds like the marriage has become transactional and they have ZERO interest in monogamy. OP and their spouse have decided they just can't sacrifice some of their own preferences for the sake of their kids. That sucks for the kids, no matter what it is they won't sacrifice.

Why not open your marriage before and after having young kids, if that matters to you? What the problem with just keeping things monogamous for maybe 10-15 years while you raise kids? The same way you might suck it up and live in the house with good schools instead of the city apartment near all the great nightlife, or take the job that is going to help you pay for college instead of following the passion project that doesn't pay as well. People sacrifice for their kids all the time. It's normal and actually good.

Having friends and hobbies in a substantial way is not being an "absent parent". Back when having kids was just a normal part of adult life and not some kind of special sacrifice, adults knew this. Now we have UMC parents who are way too involved with their kids and kids who need more space and more time with their peers and not their parents. Just think: you could have hobbies and friends, and then so could your kid.

Lots of parents have hobbies they share with their family/kids. It’s fun to spend time with your family/kids. Polyamorous people don’t think it’s fun or worthwhile to spend time with their children.

Parents have friends. People who are in a sexual relationship with a parent aren’t friends- they are a sex partner. Sex partners should be having what contact with kids? How much time do polyamorous people spend weekly/monthly with their sex partners?

Your post admits that you think kids get too much attention and parental involvement, and having sex outside your marriage is your “hobby” and your sexual partners your friends. You center your life around sex with these people. Your kids cannot and should not be a part of that. Polyamorous people don’t care about their kids. They are selfish and think sex with whatever sex partner is hanging above is the meaning of life.

Actually, my hobbies are my hobbies and my friends are my friends. I don't take my kids with me to the gym to work out, or to my professional/networking-related groups, either. I think there are reasons to not be comfortable with non-monogamy, but "you must sacrifice for your kids' entire childhood and not have a life outside of them" is the worst possible take on this. Bad for the parents, bad for the kids.

Imagine being a kid whose parents put them behind their gym routine, their multiple professional/networking groups, their sex partners, and whatever else they decide they are entitled to do…miserable childhood.

How many minutes a day do you spend being an active parent?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don’t expose your kids to your lifestyle when they are in their minor years. There’s not really much upside and lots of downsides.

I’d feel comfortable discussing it once they were mature adults in their own relationships.

People always say when a marriage ends because of cheating, to never tell the kids because it’s not right to tell kids about their parent’s sex lives.

Yet somehow telling the kids mom and dad have multiple ongoing extra-marital sexual relationships is healthy and normal?

Explain?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Having hobbies you share with friends is different from meeting your bang partner for a hook up and you know it.

Why? Someone who golfs for 8 hours every weekend is a better parent than someone who spends say 8 hours a month with their bang partner?

I don't think either of them is winning parenting awards.

When you have young kids, your focus should be those kids. Of course you can have friends and hobbies, but they can't be prioritized over your kids because your kids need you more. What you give them in childhood forms the foundation for their entire life. It's really important and worth missing out on some golf or only seeing your friends a couple nights a month so that you can be fully present. People also step back at work to be their for their kids. No one is saying that an open relationship is worse than being an absent parent in other ways.

But the logistics of an open relationship absolutely pose issues in terms of being very present for your kid. Especially in a situation like OP's where it sounds like the marriage has become transactional and they have ZERO interest in monogamy. OP and their spouse have decided they just can't sacrifice some of their own preferences for the sake of their kids. That sucks for the kids, no matter what it is they won't sacrifice.

Why not open your marriage before and after having young kids, if that matters to you? What the problem with just keeping things monogamous for maybe 10-15 years while you raise kids? The same way you might suck it up and live in the house with good schools instead of the city apartment near all the great nightlife, or take the job that is going to help you pay for college instead of following the passion project that doesn't pay as well. People sacrifice for their kids all the time. It's normal and actually good.

Having friends and hobbies in a substantial way is not being an "absent parent". Back when having kids was just a normal part of adult life and not some kind of special sacrifice, adults knew this. Now we have UMC parents who are way too involved with their kids and kids who need more space and more time with their peers and not their parents. Just think: you could have hobbies and friends, and then so could your kid.

Lots of parents have hobbies they share with their family/kids. It’s fun to spend time with your family/kids. Polyamorous people don’t think it’s fun or worthwhile to spend time with their children.

Parents have friends. People who are in a sexual relationship with a parent aren’t friends- they are a sex partner. Sex partners should be having what contact with kids? How much time do polyamorous people spend weekly/monthly with their sex partners?

Your post admits that you think kids get too much attention and parental involvement, and having sex outside your marriage is your “hobby” and your sexual partners your friends. You center your life around sex with these people. Your kids cannot and should not be a part of that. Polyamorous people don’t care about their kids. They are selfish and think sex with whatever sex partner is hanging above is the meaning of life.

Actually, my hobbies are my hobbies and my friends are my friends. I don't take my kids with me to the gym to work out, or to my professional/networking-related groups, either. I think there are reasons to not be comfortable with non-monogamy, but "you must sacrifice for your kids' entire childhood and not have a life outside of them" is the worst possible take on this. Bad for the parents, bad for the kids.

It’s dishonest to act like playing golf or going to brunch with your friends is not different *in kind* than leaving the home to have extramarital sex and emotional affairs. These are qualitatively different. Yes, some things are good and some things are bad. It’s not a crime to call a thing what it is. You absolutely must sacrifice bad things for your kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Having hobbies you share with friends is different from meeting your bang partner for a hook up and you know it.

Why? Someone who golfs for 8 hours every weekend is a better parent than someone who spends say 8 hours a month with their bang partner?

I don't think either of them is winning parenting awards.

When you have young kids, your focus should be those kids. Of course you can have friends and hobbies, but they can't be prioritized over your kids because your kids need you more. What you give them in childhood forms the foundation for their entire life. It's really important and worth missing out on some golf or only seeing your friends a couple nights a month so that you can be fully present. People also step back at work to be their for their kids. No one is saying that an open relationship is worse than being an absent parent in other ways.

But the logistics of an open relationship absolutely pose issues in terms of being very present for your kid. Especially in a situation like OP's where it sounds like the marriage has become transactional and they have ZERO interest in monogamy. OP and their spouse have decided they just can't sacrifice some of their own preferences for the sake of their kids. That sucks for the kids, no matter what it is they won't sacrifice.

Why not open your marriage before and after having young kids, if that matters to you? What the problem with just keeping things monogamous for maybe 10-15 years while you raise kids? The same way you might suck it up and live in the house with good schools instead of the city apartment near all the great nightlife, or take the job that is going to help you pay for college instead of following the passion project that doesn't pay as well. People sacrifice for their kids all the time. It's normal and actually good.

Having friends and hobbies in a substantial way is not being an "absent parent". Back when having kids was just a normal part of adult life and not some kind of special sacrifice, adults knew this. Now we have UMC parents who are way too involved with their kids and kids who need more space and more time with their peers and not their parents. Just think: you could have hobbies and friends, and then so could your kid.

Lots of parents have hobbies they share with their family/kids. It’s fun to spend time with your family/kids. Polyamorous people don’t think it’s fun or worthwhile to spend time with their children.

Parents have friends. People who are in a sexual relationship with a parent aren’t friends- they are a sex partner. Sex partners should be having what contact with kids? How much time do polyamorous people spend weekly/monthly with their sex partners?

Your post admits that you think kids get too much attention and parental involvement, and having sex outside your marriage is your “hobby” and your sexual partners your friends. You center your life around sex with these people. Your kids cannot and should not be a part of that. Polyamorous people don’t care about their kids. They are selfish and think sex with whatever sex partner is hanging above is the meaning of life.

Actually, my hobbies are my hobbies and my friends are my friends. I don't take my kids with me to the gym to work out, or to my professional/networking-related groups, either. I think there are reasons to not be comfortable with non-monogamy, but "you must sacrifice for your kids' entire childhood and not have a life outside of them" is the worst possible take on this. Bad for the parents, bad for the kids.

It’s dishonest to act like playing golf or going to brunch with your friends is not different *in kind* than leaving the home to have extramarital sex and emotional affairs. These are qualitatively different. Yes, some things are good and some things are bad. It’s not a crime to call a thing what it is. You absolutely must sacrifice bad things for your kids.

I mean, this whole debate started because someone defending ENM with kids compared it to a parent who goes golfing for 8 hours every Saturday, and I pointed out that they are BOTH BAD. It is bad parenting to always preference your own needs *when your needs and your child's needs are in conflict.* So if you have young kids but you really wish you could spend a full day golfing every weekend, I think you should compromise to meet your child's needs even if it means you don't spend as much time on your hobby as you hoped. Similarly, if you have young kids but you are tired of sex with your spouse and would love to have sex with other people, I think it's selfish to dedicate time an energy to secondary sexual relationships when you have young kids who need your time and attention.

Look, some people are goint to say ENM is immoral, and that's their opinion. I'm very much a live and let live person in this respect, and I think that as long as we're talking about fully consenting adults, people should arrange their relationships as they want. But the exception there is that if you have children, I think you need to prioritize their needs, full stop. And the easiest way to do that is to be monogamous. There are 24 hours in a day and 7 days in a week, and most of us have to work. There is not time for you to work, carry on secondary relationships with other people, plus maintain your marriage, plus be a present parent to young children. You can say you make it work but I don't believe you because if you are making it work by trading the kids off between parents or getting a lot of extra childcare weekends and evenings, your kids are missing out on a lot of valuable time with parents, and with the family unit.

Also, btw, if you have kids, a job, AND secondary sexual relationships, how much time do you have for friends and hobbies? A well rounded person should have some friends and hobbies. If you are already married, the most efficient thing is to get your sexual/romantic needs met there, so that you can use other time for work/kids/friends/hobbies. People doing ENM who also have kids are really straining the limits of space and time. I guess if you just have sex with your extra GF/BF while golfing, it might work? It honestly doesn't make much sense.

Just focus on your kids for a few years. Then you can go all in on golf or ENM or whatever when your kids are in HS or college. Your kids need you now and can't wait until later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Having hobbies you share with friends is different from meeting your bang partner for a hook up and you know it.

Why? Someone who golfs for 8 hours every weekend is a better parent than someone who spends say 8 hours a month with their bang partner?

I don't think either of them is winning parenting awards.

When you have young kids, your focus should be those kids. Of course you can have friends and hobbies, but they can't be prioritized over your kids because your kids need you more. What you give them in childhood forms the foundation for their entire life. It's really important and worth missing out on some golf or only seeing your friends a couple nights a month so that you can be fully present. People also step back at work to be their for their kids. No one is saying that an open relationship is worse than being an absent parent in other ways.

But the logistics of an open relationship absolutely pose issues in terms of being very present for your kid. Especially in a situation like OP's where it sounds like the marriage has become transactional and they have ZERO interest in monogamy. OP and their spouse have decided they just can't sacrifice some of their own preferences for the sake of their kids. That sucks for the kids, no matter what it is they won't sacrifice.

Why not open your marriage before and after having young kids, if that matters to you? What the problem with just keeping things monogamous for maybe 10-15 years while you raise kids? The same way you might suck it up and live in the house with good schools instead of the city apartment near all the great nightlife, or take the job that is going to help you pay for college instead of following the passion project that doesn't pay as well. People sacrifice for their kids all the time. It's normal and actually good.

Having friends and hobbies in a substantial way is not being an "absent parent". Back when having kids was just a normal part of adult life and not some kind of special sacrifice, adults knew this. Now we have UMC parents who are way too involved with their kids and kids who need more space and more time with their peers and not their parents. Just think: you could have hobbies and friends, and then so could your kid.

Lots of parents have hobbies they share with their family/kids. It’s fun to spend time with your family/kids. Polyamorous people don’t think it’s fun or worthwhile to spend time with their children.

Parents have friends. People who are in a sexual relationship with a parent aren’t friends- they are a sex partner. Sex partners should be having what contact with kids? How much time do polyamorous people spend weekly/monthly with their sex partners?

Your post admits that you think kids get too much attention and parental involvement, and having sex outside your marriage is your “hobby” and your sexual partners your friends. You center your life around sex with these people. Your kids cannot and should not be a part of that. Polyamorous people don’t care about their kids. They are selfish and think sex with whatever sex partner is hanging above is the meaning of life.

Actually, my hobbies are my hobbies and my friends are my friends. I don't take my kids with me to the gym to work out, or to my professional/networking-related groups, either. I think there are reasons to not be comfortable with non-monogamy, but "you must sacrifice for your kids' entire childhood and not have a life outside of them" is the worst possible take on this. Bad for the parents, bad for the kids.

It’s dishonest to act like playing golf or going to brunch with your friends is not different *in kind* than leaving the home to have extramarital sex and emotional affairs. These are qualitatively different. Yes, some things are good and some things are bad. It’s not a crime to call a thing what it is. You absolutely must sacrifice bad things for your kids.

I mean, this whole debate started because someone defending ENM with kids compared it to a parent who goes golfing for 8 hours every Saturday, and I pointed out that they are BOTH BAD. It is bad parenting to always preference your own needs *when your needs and your child's needs are in conflict.* So if you have young kids but you really wish you could spend a full day golfing every weekend, I think you should compromise to meet your child's needs even if it means you don't spend as much time on your hobby as you hoped. Similarly, if you have young kids but you are tired of sex with your spouse and would love to have sex with other people, I think it's selfish to dedicate time an energy to secondary sexual relationships when you have young kids who need your time and attention.

Look, some people are goint to say ENM is immoral, and that's their opinion. I'm very much a live and let live person in this respect, and I think that as long as we're talking about fully consenting adults, people should arrange their relationships as they want. But the exception there is that if you have children, I think you need to prioritize their needs, full stop. And the easiest way to do that is to be monogamous. There are 24 hours in a day and 7 days in a week, and most of us have to work. There is not time for you to work, carry on secondary relationships with other people, plus maintain your marriage, plus be a present parent to young children. You can say you make it work but I don't believe you because if you are making it work by trading the kids off between parents or getting a lot of extra childcare weekends and evenings, your kids are missing out on a lot of valuable time with parents, and with the family unit.

Also, btw, if you have kids, a job, AND secondary sexual relationships, how much time do you have for friends and hobbies? A well rounded person should have some friends and hobbies. If you are already married, the most efficient thing is to get your sexual/romantic needs met there, so that you can use other time for work/kids/friends/hobbies. People doing ENM who also have kids are really straining the limits of space and time. I guess if you just have sex with your extra GF/BF while golfing, it might work? It honestly doesn't make much sense.

Just focus on your kids for a few years. Then you can go all in on golf or ENM or whatever when your kids are in HS or college. Your kids need you now and can't wait until later.

PP again. I wanted to note here that the couple I know who was most committed to ENM definitely tried to "make it work" for several years after having kids, and for a time they really thought they'd figured it out. Do you know how they solved the fundamental problem of there not being enough time for work, kids, and secondary relationships? They had those relationships with coworkers and childcare providers. I mean, they are right there, it's so convenient! I will let you figure out on your own how well this worked out in the long run for everyone.

Time is finite. Sorry if this is news to you.

[Anonymous]

These threads have only reinforced the notion that ENM is anything but E and incredibly selfish and likely involving narcissism and mental illness

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:These threads have only reinforced the notion that ENM is anything but E and incredibly selfish and likely involving narcissism and mental illness

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:These threads have only reinforced the notion that ENM is anything but E and incredibly selfish and likely involving narcissism and mental illness

I don't know anyone engaged in ENM who didn't either decide it didn't work OR later get diagnosed with bipolar, BPD, or other major issues OR they were happy content but it caused massive problems for others (the narcissists who just want what they want and don't care how it impacts others).

When I see people advocating for ENM like it's the magical solution to everything, and especially when they start trying to argue that ENM is the more "evolved" way to approach marriage, I just roll my eyes. Someone should do a study on ENM communities to show long-term outcomes, both on marriages and on any children raised by actively ENM couples. As someone who knows many ENM couples, I feel confident any such study would show that ENM is bad for long term marital success rates and especially bad for families.

[Anonymous]

I disliked it when my divorced parents dated, so why would any kid want this about married parents? So twisted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These threads have only reinforced the notion that ENM is anything but E and incredibly selfish and likely involving narcissism and mental illness

I don't know anyone engaged in ENM who didn't either decide it didn't work OR later get diagnosed with bipolar, BPD, or other major issues OR they were happy content but it caused massive problems for others (the narcissists who just want what they want and don't care how it impacts others).

When I see people advocating for ENM like it's the magical solution to everything, and especially when they start trying to argue that ENM is the more "evolved" way to approach marriage, I just roll my eyes. Someone should do a study on ENM communities to show long-term outcomes, both on marriages and on any children raised by actively ENM couples. As someone who knows many ENM couples, I feel confident any such study would show that ENM is bad for long term marital success rates and especially bad for families.

Well, marital success rates are pretty bad with or without ENM. What irritates me is people who act like ENM is some way to increase the stability of marriage (obviously not) or refuse to consider the issues with kids or uneven power differentials.

That said, I do know two couples that got together very young and seem to have done ENM successfully in their 20s as a way to keep both the relationship and ability to experiment. One couple closed the relationship when they had kids and that seemed to be successful - but one of the partners later transitioned so there was obviously a lot going on. Writing this makes them sound chaotic but truly they are some of the best people I’ve met. I don’t have great insight into their family but I believe they are giving their kids a great upbringing even if nontraditional.

The other couple kept the marriage open (even after kids) and are now crashing and burning spectacularly.

So you never can tell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don’t expose your kids to your lifestyle when they are in their minor years. There’s not really much upside and lots of downsides.

I’d feel comfortable discussing it once they were mature adults in their own relationships.

FYI: at no point in their lives do your children want to hear about your bang buddies, your hotel hookups, etc.

Where do any of you get the idea that your kids at any age are interested and in hearing that stuff?

How often do you discuss your parent’s sex life with them?


we know you think you and the bang crew are so very, very special and unique and interesting, but let me tell you: we don’t care.

Don’t make bang crew stories anything your innocent kids-of any age- have to deal with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These threads have only reinforced the notion that ENM is anything but E and incredibly selfish and likely involving narcissism and mental illness

I don't know anyone engaged in ENM who didn't either decide it didn't work OR later get diagnosed with bipolar, BPD, or other major issues OR they were happy content but it caused massive problems for others (the narcissists who just want what they want and don't care how it impacts others).

When I see people advocating for ENM like it's the magical solution to everything, and especially when they start trying to argue that ENM is the more "evolved" way to approach marriage, I just roll my eyes. Someone should do a study on ENM communities to show long-term outcomes, both on marriages and on any children raised by actively ENM couples. As someone who knows many ENM couples, I feel confident any such study would show that ENM is bad for long term marital success rates and especially bad for families.

Well, marital success rates are pretty bad with or without ENM. What irritates me is people who act like ENM is some way to increase the stability of marriage (obviously not) or refuse to consider the issues with kids or uneven power differentials.

That said, I do know two couples that got together very young and seem to have done ENM successfully in their 20s as a way to keep both the relationship and ability to experiment. One couple closed the relationship when they had kids and that seemed to be successful - but one of the partners later transitioned so there was obviously a lot going on. Writing this makes them sound chaotic but truly they are some of the best people I’ve met. I don’t have great insight into their family but I believe they are giving their kids a great upbringing even if nontraditional.

The other couple kept the marriage open (even after kids) and are now crashing and burning spectacularly.

So you never can tell.

Hmm I know a couple who matches this description and I would describe one of them as a saint and the other one as a Huge Problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These threads have only reinforced the notion that ENM is anything but E and incredibly selfish and likely involving narcissism and mental illness

I don't know anyone engaged in ENM who didn't either decide it didn't work OR later get diagnosed with bipolar, BPD, or other major issues OR they were happy content but it caused massive problems for others (the narcissists who just want what they want and don't care how it impacts others).

When I see people advocating for ENM like it's the magical solution to everything, and especially when they start trying to argue that ENM is the more "evolved" way to approach marriage, I just roll my eyes. Someone should do a study on ENM communities to show long-term outcomes, both on marriages and on any children raised by actively ENM couples. As someone who knows many ENM couples, I feel confident any such study would show that ENM is bad for long term marital success rates and especially bad for families.

Well, marital success rates are pretty bad with or without ENM. What irritates me is people who act like ENM is some way to increase the stability of marriage (obviously not) or refuse to consider the issues with kids or uneven power differentials.

That said, I do know two couples that got together very young and seem to have done ENM successfully in their 20s as a way to keep both the relationship and ability to experiment. One couple closed the relationship when they had kids and that seemed to be successful - but one of the partners later transitioned so there was obviously a lot going on. Writing this makes them sound chaotic but truly they are some of the best people I’ve met. I don’t have great insight into their family but I believe they are giving their kids a great upbringing even if nontraditional.

The other couple kept the marriage open (even after kids) and are now crashing and burning spectacularly.

So you never can tell.

So one family spectacularly exploded

and one family (which you don’t have insight into) also spectacularly exploded

I think we can tell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These threads have only reinforced the notion that ENM is anything but E and incredibly selfish and likely involving narcissism and mental illness

I don't know anyone engaged in ENM who didn't either decide it didn't work OR later get diagnosed with bipolar, BPD, or other major issues OR they were happy content but it caused massive problems for others (the narcissists who just want what they want and don't care how it impacts others).

When I see people advocating for ENM like it's the magical solution to everything, and especially when they start trying to argue that ENM is the more "evolved" way to approach marriage, I just roll my eyes. Someone should do a study on ENM communities to show long-term outcomes, both on marriages and on any children raised by actively ENM couples. As someone who knows many ENM couples, I feel confident any such study would show that ENM is bad for long term marital success rates and especially bad for families.

Well, marital success rates are pretty bad with or without ENM. What irritates me is people who act like ENM is some way to increase the stability of marriage (obviously not) or refuse to consider the issues with kids or uneven power differentials.

That said, I do know two couples that got together very young and seem to have done ENM successfully in their 20s as a way to keep both the relationship and ability to experiment. One couple closed the relationship when they had kids and that seemed to be successful - but one of the partners later transitioned so there was obviously a lot going on. Writing this makes them sound chaotic but truly they are some of the best people I’ve met. I don’t have great insight into their family but I believe they are giving their kids a great upbringing even if nontraditional.

The other couple kept the marriage open (even after kids) and are now crashing and burning spectacularly.

So you never can tell.

Hmm I know a couple who matches this description and I would describe one of them as a saint and the other one as a Huge Problem.

lmao spot on