Missing middle- Arlington

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is just an observation and not necessarily relevant to anything that’s been said yet. It seems like the 4-6 plexes need at least 6000 SF. What will happen on the 4000-5900SF lots? Any builders or realtors have a guess? Bc we DO have some very small lots in Arlington and that’s what I have been curious about. What happens there?

I talked to the builder who bought what he told me was an R5 lot close to Virginia Square. He is building two semi-detached houses, each with 4 bedrooms and 4 baths and 2 parking spaces. He has an investor lined up who will buy them around $1.3 M, depending on cost of materials. Investor thinks he can rent them for $4,500 a month to either someone who wants easy living in a nice clean rental or four young professionals who don't want one of the grungy older rental houses and pay $1,150 for a room and bath and common kitchen.

That’s the kind of thing I was curious about. So even though it’s a duplex, in this case, nobody is getting on the property ladder and it’s even more people than would be in a 6 plex.

For this particular builder, the investors will benefit as any investor in rental property would benefit. The investor might sell them to an owner occupant, but the initial appeal is to get a tenant or tenants who want to live in a new unit. The same builder has another lot that is R6 and is waffling between doing a single family house or three townhouses. He is waiting to see how the semi-detacheds do before he commits to it one way or the other. Meanwhile, the old house is rented to three young professionals with dogs. Dog owners who want a patch of grass and divorced parents who want schools are is target market.

The point is (DP here) in these scenarios we aren't adding new homeowners to Arlington. Its investors who already can afford property who will be renting them out. This is not teachers buying homes as we were sold...

Insufficient housing units make this area attractive to investors because rents stay high. More housing and more density is beneficial if you want prices to fall or at least increase more slowly. That’s not going to happen with 58 MMH permits but it also wont happen with zero permits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So begins the decline of Arlington. More people will choose McLean or Bethesda once they see how neighborhoods get transformed by this stupidity.

I don’t think this will happen. I think people will continue to want Arlington for their commutes, or being near amenities, etc. Many of us may go private (like our family). But Arlington is still going to be desirable.

For many people, the dream of owning a SFH is about being on a quiet, peaceful street relatively free of density, not one clogged with cars and people. If people want density, they choose a townhouse or condo. Make no mistake, many people's property values will be negatively impacted.

It's like when you're considering buying a house, but the one next door has all the hallmarks of being inhabited by a hoarder (stuff all over the lawn and backyard, poorly cared for) -- you take a pass and wait for something better to come along. No different here.

Yesterday I literally had someone tell me they chose a SFH in Arlington bc it reminded them of a “city.” The home buying demographic is changing. People are valuing different things.

Perhaps they were looking more over in Lyon Village, which does feel like the city as opposed to homes in the Williamsburg, country club Hills, etc. neighborhoods.

DP. I don’t see the incentives for MM housing in those neighborhoods and if you look at the map most of the MM projects are near amenities. I live in a SFH in 22207 because when we outgrew our condo in LV we couldn’t afford a SFH in that neighborhood. I would never rent here or buy a duplex or multi family housing (unless I could purchase the whole building). It’s not walkable. The rents in the R-B corridor are higher than in other parts of the county. So if I were a developer looking to build a rental that’s where it would make sense to focus.

I agree with this. And to put an even finer point on it, the developers will look for land alone the Rosslyn-Ballston corridor that’s the cheapest. Which means not Lyon Village. That neighborhood is the most expensive per square foot in all of Arlington County. If the developers want to build plexes to rent out, they will target places like Virginia Square and Lyon Park where the land prices are lower. Maybe duplexes make sense in LV, but I think the building lots are too expensive for a 4-6 plex of rental units. There are other metro-accessible neighborhoods with cheaper lots.

Two of the MM projects are in Lyon Village. One on Danvilel St.and one on Jackson St.

No there’s one duplex on N Jackson. Unless Danville just got filed. What’s the Danville address?

Not Danville, Daniel.

https://www.arlingtonva.us/Government/Programs/Building/Permits/EHO/Tracker

There is one on Daniel but the one we just filed is on Danville.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is just an observation and not necessarily relevant to anything that’s been said yet. It seems like the 4-6 plexes need at least 6000 SF. What will happen on the 4000-5900SF lots? Any builders or realtors have a guess? Bc we DO have some very small lots in Arlington and that’s what I have been curious about. What happens there?

I talked to the builder who bought what he told me was an R5 lot close to Virginia Square. He is building two semi-detached houses, each with 4 bedrooms and 4 baths and 2 parking spaces. He has an investor lined up who will buy them around $1.3 M, depending on cost of materials. Investor thinks he can rent them for $4,500 a month to either someone who wants easy living in a nice clean rental or four young professionals who don't want one of the grungy older rental houses and pay $1,150 for a room and bath and common kitchen.

That’s the kind of thing I was curious about. So even though it’s a duplex, in this case, nobody is getting on the property ladder and it’s even more people than would be in a 6 plex.

For this particular builder, the investors will benefit as any investor in rental property would benefit. The investor might sell them to an owner occupant, but the initial appeal is to get a tenant or tenants who want to live in a new unit. The same builder has another lot that is R6 and is waffling between doing a single family house or three townhouses. He is waiting to see how the semi-detacheds do before he commits to it one way or the other. Meanwhile, the old house is rented to three young professionals with dogs. Dog owners who want a patch of grass and divorced parents who want schools are is target market.

The point is (DP here) in these scenarios we aren't adding new homeowners to Arlington. Its investors who already can afford property who will be renting them out. This is not teachers buying homes as we were sold...

And what I really don’t like about this situation is that it’s taking units offline and further pressuring pricing for people who want to buy.

You are both correct. The best homeownership opportunities will be for the semi-detached and townhouses. But they will provide homeownership opportunities to the same people who can now buy in Arlington.

Establishing and maintaining a condo regime in Virginia is expensive and those costs -- along with all the operating costs -- will have to be spread over three to six units. That is why the three to six unit buildings are more likely to be built by investors or sold to investors as rentals. They will provide rental opportunities to the same people who can now rent in Arlington.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is just an observation and not necessarily relevant to anything that’s been said yet. It seems like the 4-6 plexes need at least 6000 SF. What will happen on the 4000-5900SF lots? Any builders or realtors have a guess? Bc we DO have some very small lots in Arlington and that’s what I have been curious about. What happens there?

I talked to the builder who bought what he told me was an R5 lot close to Virginia Square. He is building two semi-detached houses, each with 4 bedrooms and 4 baths and 2 parking spaces. He has an investor lined up who will buy them around $1.3 M, depending on cost of materials. Investor thinks he can rent them for $4,500 a month to either someone who wants easy living in a nice clean rental or four young professionals who don't want one of the grungy older rental houses and pay $1,150 for a room and bath and common kitchen.

That’s the kind of thing I was curious about. So even though it’s a duplex, in this case, nobody is getting on the property ladder and it’s even more people than would be in a 6 plex.

For this particular builder, the investors will benefit as any investor in rental property would benefit. The investor might sell them to an owner occupant, but the initial appeal is to get a tenant or tenants who want to live in a new unit. The same builder has another lot that is R6 and is waffling between doing a single family house or three townhouses. He is waiting to see how the semi-detacheds do before he commits to it one way or the other. Meanwhile, the old house is rented to three young professionals with dogs. Dog owners who want a patch of grass and divorced parents who want schools are is target market.

The point is (DP here) in these scenarios we aren't adding new homeowners to Arlington. Its investors who already can afford property who will be renting them out. This is not teachers buying homes as we were sold...

Insufficient housing units make this area attractive to investors because rents stay high. More housing and more density is beneficial if you want prices to fall or at least increase more slowly. That’s not going to happen with 58 MMH permits but it also wont happen with zero permits.

So building $1 million townhouses and duplexes will cause prices to fall?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So begins the decline of Arlington. More people will choose McLean or Bethesda once they see how neighborhoods get transformed by this stupidity.

I don’t think this will happen. I think people will continue to want Arlington for their commutes, or being near amenities, etc. Many of us may go private (like our family). But Arlington is still going to be desirable.

For many people, the dream of owning a SFH is about being on a quiet, peaceful street relatively free of density, not one clogged with cars and people. If people want density, they choose a townhouse or condo. Make no mistake, many people's property values will be negatively impacted.

It's like when you're considering buying a house, but the one next door has all the hallmarks of being inhabited by a hoarder (stuff all over the lawn and backyard, poorly cared for) -- you take a pass and wait for something better to come along. No different here.

Yesterday I literally had someone tell me they chose a SFH in Arlington bc it reminded them of a “city.” The home buying demographic is changing. People are valuing different things.

Perhaps they were looking more over in Lyon Village, which does feel like the city as opposed to homes in the Williamsburg, country club Hills, etc. neighborhoods.

DP. I don’t see the incentives for MM housing in those neighborhoods and if you look at the map most of the MM projects are near amenities. I live in a SFH in 22207 because when we outgrew our condo in LV we couldn’t afford a SFH in that neighborhood. I would never rent here or buy a duplex or multi family housing (unless I could purchase the whole building). It’s not walkable. The rents in the R-B corridor are higher than in other parts of the county. So if I were a developer looking to build a rental that’s where it would make sense to focus.

I agree with this. And to put an even finer point on it, the developers will look for land alone the Rosslyn-Ballston corridor that’s the cheapest. Which means not Lyon Village. That neighborhood is the most expensive per square foot in all of Arlington County. If the developers want to build plexes to rent out, they will target places like Virginia Square and Lyon Park where the land prices are lower. Maybe duplexes make sense in LV, but I think the building lots are too expensive for a 4-6 plex of rental units. There are other metro-accessible neighborhoods with cheaper lots.

Two of the MM projects are in Lyon Village. One on Danvilel St.and one on Jackson St.

No there’s one duplex on N Jackson. Unless Danville just got filed. What’s the Danville address?

Not Danville, Daniel.

https://www.arlingtonva.us/Government/Programs/Building/Permits/EHO/Tracker

There is one on Daniel but the one we just filed is on Danville.

I’m very curious what type of unit is proposed for the Lyon Village neighborhood. I guess all will be revealed when the tracker updates on Friday!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is just an observation and not necessarily relevant to anything that’s been said yet. It seems like the 4-6 plexes need at least 6000 SF. What will happen on the 4000-5900SF lots? Any builders or realtors have a guess? Bc we DO have some very small lots in Arlington and that’s what I have been curious about. What happens there?

I talked to the builder who bought what he told me was an R5 lot close to Virginia Square. He is building two semi-detached houses, each with 4 bedrooms and 4 baths and 2 parking spaces. He has an investor lined up who will buy them around $1.3 M, depending on cost of materials. Investor thinks he can rent them for $4,500 a month to either someone who wants easy living in a nice clean rental or four young professionals who don't want one of the grungy older rental houses and pay $1,150 for a room and bath and common kitchen.

That’s the kind of thing I was curious about. So even though it’s a duplex, in this case, nobody is getting on the property ladder and it’s even more people than would be in a 6 plex.

For this particular builder, the investors will benefit as any investor in rental property would benefit. The investor might sell them to an owner occupant, but the initial appeal is to get a tenant or tenants who want to live in a new unit. The same builder has another lot that is R6 and is waffling between doing a single family house or three townhouses. He is waiting to see how the semi-detacheds do before he commits to it one way or the other. Meanwhile, the old house is rented to three young professionals with dogs. Dog owners who want a patch of grass and divorced parents who want schools are is target market.

The point is (DP here) in these scenarios we aren't adding new homeowners to Arlington. Its investors who already can afford property who will be renting them out. This is not teachers buying homes as we were sold...

Insufficient housing units make this area attractive to investors because rents stay high. More housing and more density is beneficial if you want prices to fall or at least increase more slowly. That’s not going to happen with 58 MMH permits but it also wont happen with zero permits.

So building $1 million townhouses and duplexes will cause prices to fall?

Which has a lower mean and provides more housing — five $2M SFHs or ten $1M townhomes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is just an observation and not necessarily relevant to anything that’s been said yet. It seems like the 4-6 plexes need at least 6000 SF. What will happen on the 4000-5900SF lots? Any builders or realtors have a guess? Bc we DO have some very small lots in Arlington and that’s what I have been curious about. What happens there?

I talked to the builder who bought what he told me was an R5 lot close to Virginia Square. He is building two semi-detached houses, each with 4 bedrooms and 4 baths and 2 parking spaces. He has an investor lined up who will buy them around $1.3 M, depending on cost of materials. Investor thinks he can rent them for $4,500 a month to either someone who wants easy living in a nice clean rental or four young professionals who don't want one of the grungy older rental houses and pay $1,150 for a room and bath and common kitchen.

That’s the kind of thing I was curious about. So even though it’s a duplex, in this case, nobody is getting on the property ladder and it’s even more people than would be in a 6 plex.

For this particular builder, the investors will benefit as any investor in rental property would benefit. The investor might sell them to an owner occupant, but the initial appeal is to get a tenant or tenants who want to live in a new unit. The same builder has another lot that is R6 and is waffling between doing a single family house or three townhouses. He is waiting to see how the semi-detacheds do before he commits to it one way or the other. Meanwhile, the old house is rented to three young professionals with dogs. Dog owners who want a patch of grass and divorced parents who want schools are is target market.

The point is (DP here) in these scenarios we aren't adding new homeowners to Arlington. Its investors who already can afford property who will be renting them out. This is not teachers buying homes as we were sold...

Insufficient housing units make this area attractive to investors because rents stay high. More housing and more density is beneficial if you want prices to fall or at least increase more slowly. That’s not going to happen with 58 MMH permits but it also wont happen with zero permits.

So building $1 million townhouses and duplexes will cause prices to fall?

Which has a lower mean and provides more housing — five $2M SFHs or ten $1M townhomes?

How are you controlling for the increased value of single family houses because of their increased rarity and for the increased value of tear down lots that will be in even more demand for EHO housing and new builds?

[Anonymous]

There is a surplus of homes in the US.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So begins the decline of Arlington. More people will choose McLean or Bethesda once they see how neighborhoods get transformed by this stupidity.

I don’t think this will happen. I think people will continue to want Arlington for their commutes, or being near amenities, etc. Many of us may go private (like our family). But Arlington is still going to be desirable.

For many people, the dream of owning a SFH is about being on a quiet, peaceful street relatively free of density, not one clogged with cars and people. If people want density, they choose a townhouse or condo. Make no mistake, many people's property values will be negatively impacted.

It's like when you're considering buying a house, but the one next door has all the hallmarks of being inhabited by a hoarder (stuff all over the lawn and backyard, poorly cared for) -- you take a pass and wait for something better to come along. No different here.

Yesterday I literally had someone tell me they chose a SFH in Arlington bc it reminded them of a “city.” The home buying demographic is changing. People are valuing different things.

Perhaps they were looking more over in Lyon Village, which does feel like the city as opposed to homes in the Williamsburg, country club Hills, etc. neighborhoods.

DP. I don’t see the incentives for MM housing in those neighborhoods and if you look at the map most of the MM projects are near amenities. I live in a SFH in 22207 because when we outgrew our condo in LV we couldn’t afford a SFH in that neighborhood. I would never rent here or buy a duplex or multi family housing (unless I could purchase the whole building). It’s not walkable. The rents in the R-B corridor are higher than in other parts of the county. So if I were a developer looking to build a rental that’s where it would make sense to focus.

I agree with this. And to put an even finer point on it, the developers will look for land alone the Rosslyn-Ballston corridor that’s the cheapest. Which means not Lyon Village. That neighborhood is the most expensive per square foot in all of Arlington County. If the developers want to build plexes to rent out, they will target places like Virginia Square and Lyon Park where the land prices are lower. Maybe duplexes make sense in LV, but I think the building lots are too expensive for a 4-6 plex of rental units. There are other metro-accessible neighborhoods with cheaper lots.

Two of the MM projects are in Lyon Village. One on Danvilel St.and one on Jackson St.

No there’s one duplex on N Jackson. Unless Danville just got filed. What’s the Danville address?

Not Danville, Daniel.

https://www.arlingtonva.us/Government/Programs/Building/Permits/EHO/Tracker

There is one on Daniel but the one we just filed is on Danville.

Isn’t this info made public every week? Is it a secret?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So begins the decline of Arlington. More people will choose McLean or Bethesda once they see how neighborhoods get transformed by this stupidity.

I don’t think this will happen. I think people will continue to want Arlington for their commutes, or being near amenities, etc. Many of us may go private (like our family). But Arlington is still going to be desirable.

For many people, the dream of owning a SFH is about being on a quiet, peaceful street relatively free of density, not one clogged with cars and people. If people want density, they choose a townhouse or condo. Make no mistake, many people's property values will be negatively impacted.

It's like when you're considering buying a house, but the one next door has all the hallmarks of being inhabited by a hoarder (stuff all over the lawn and backyard, poorly cared for) -- you take a pass and wait for something better to come along. No different here.

Yesterday I literally had someone tell me they chose a SFH in Arlington bc it reminded them of a “city.” The home buying demographic is changing. People are valuing different things.

Perhaps they were looking more over in Lyon Village, which does feel like the city as opposed to homes in the Williamsburg, country club Hills, etc. neighborhoods.

DP. I don’t see the incentives for MM housing in those neighborhoods and if you look at the map most of the MM projects are near amenities. I live in a SFH in 22207 because when we outgrew our condo in LV we couldn’t afford a SFH in that neighborhood. I would never rent here or buy a duplex or multi family housing (unless I could purchase the whole building). It’s not walkable. The rents in the R-B corridor are higher than in other parts of the county. So if I were a developer looking to build a rental that’s where it would make sense to focus.

I agree with this. And to put an even finer point on it, the developers will look for land alone the Rosslyn-Ballston corridor that’s the cheapest. Which means not Lyon Village. That neighborhood is the most expensive per square foot in all of Arlington County. If the developers want to build plexes to rent out, they will target places like Virginia Square and Lyon Park where the land prices are lower. Maybe duplexes make sense in LV, but I think the building lots are too expensive for a 4-6 plex of rental units. There are other metro-accessible neighborhoods with cheaper lots.

Two of the MM projects are in Lyon Village. One on Danvilel St.and one on Jackson St.

No there’s one duplex on N Jackson. Unless Danville just got filed. What’s the Danville address?

Not Danville, Daniel.

https://www.arlingtonva.us/Government/Programs/Building/Permits/EHO/Tracker

There is one on Daniel but the one we just filed is on Danville.

The proposed 6 plex on N Daniel is for a 6000 SF lot but the county’s webpage says the following:

Lots not meeting these minimum dimensional standards can be developed with EHO project if the lot is nonconforming, per ACZO §16.1.1 Nonconforming Lots. EHO development on nonconforming lots is limited to no more than four (4) dwelling units unless the lot is 7,000 sq. ft. or more.


What am I missing? Doesn’t the lot have to be 7000 SF for a 6 plex? Any builders or realtors have the answer to this question?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So begins the decline of Arlington. More people will choose McLean or Bethesda once they see how neighborhoods get transformed by this stupidity.

I don’t think this will happen. I think people will continue to want Arlington for their commutes, or being near amenities, etc. Many of us may go private (like our family). But Arlington is still going to be desirable.

For many people, the dream of owning a SFH is about being on a quiet, peaceful street relatively free of density, not one clogged with cars and people. If people want density, they choose a townhouse or condo. Make no mistake, many people's property values will be negatively impacted.

It's like when you're considering buying a house, but the one next door has all the hallmarks of being inhabited by a hoarder (stuff all over the lawn and backyard, poorly cared for) -- you take a pass and wait for something better to come along. No different here.

Yesterday I literally had someone tell me they chose a SFH in Arlington bc it reminded them of a “city.” The home buying demographic is changing. People are valuing different things.

Perhaps they were looking more over in Lyon Village, which does feel like the city as opposed to homes in the Williamsburg, country club Hills, etc. neighborhoods.

DP. I don’t see the incentives for MM housing in those neighborhoods and if you look at the map most of the MM projects are near amenities. I live in a SFH in 22207 because when we outgrew our condo in LV we couldn’t afford a SFH in that neighborhood. I would never rent here or buy a duplex or multi family housing (unless I could purchase the whole building). It’s not walkable. The rents in the R-B corridor are higher than in other parts of the county. So if I were a developer looking to build a rental that’s where it would make sense to focus.

I agree with this. And to put an even finer point on it, the developers will look for land alone the Rosslyn-Ballston corridor that’s the cheapest. Which means not Lyon Village. That neighborhood is the most expensive per square foot in all of Arlington County. If the developers want to build plexes to rent out, they will target places like Virginia Square and Lyon Park where the land prices are lower. Maybe duplexes make sense in LV, but I think the building lots are too expensive for a 4-6 plex of rental units. There are other metro-accessible neighborhoods with cheaper lots.

Two of the MM projects are in Lyon Village. One on Danvilel St.and one on Jackson St.

No there’s one duplex on N Jackson. Unless Danville just got filed. What’s the Danville address?

Not Danville, Daniel.

https://www.arlingtonva.us/Government/Programs/Building/Permits/EHO/Tracker

There is one on Daniel but the one we just filed is on Danville.

The proposed 6 plex on N Daniel is for a 6000 SF lot but the county’s webpage says the following:

Lots not meeting these minimum dimensional standards can be developed with EHO project if the lot is nonconforming, per ACZO §16.1.1 Nonconforming Lots. EHO development on nonconforming lots is limited to no more than four (4) dwelling units unless the lot is 7,000 sq. ft. or more.


What am I missing? Doesn’t the lot have to be 7000 SF for a 6 plex? Any builders or realtors have the answer to this question?

I think I’m about to answer my own question: is it a conforming lot bc it’s zoned R-5 and has 6000 SF?

But if it were zoned R-6 and had 5500 SF, would it be non-conforming and limited to a 4 plex?

TIA!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So begins the decline of Arlington. More people will choose McLean or Bethesda once they see how neighborhoods get transformed by this stupidity.

I don’t think this will happen. I think people will continue to want Arlington for their commutes, or being near amenities, etc. Many of us may go private (like our family). But Arlington is still going to be desirable.

For many people, the dream of owning a SFH is about being on a quiet, peaceful street relatively free of density, not one clogged with cars and people. If people want density, they choose a townhouse or condo. Make no mistake, many people's property values will be negatively impacted.

It's like when you're considering buying a house, but the one next door has all the hallmarks of being inhabited by a hoarder (stuff all over the lawn and backyard, poorly cared for) -- you take a pass and wait for something better to come along. No different here.

Yesterday I literally had someone tell me they chose a SFH in Arlington bc it reminded them of a “city.” The home buying demographic is changing. People are valuing different things.

Perhaps they were looking more over in Lyon Village, which does feel like the city as opposed to homes in the Williamsburg, country club Hills, etc. neighborhoods.

DP. I don’t see the incentives for MM housing in those neighborhoods and if you look at the map most of the MM projects are near amenities. I live in a SFH in 22207 because when we outgrew our condo in LV we couldn’t afford a SFH in that neighborhood. I would never rent here or buy a duplex or multi family housing (unless I could purchase the whole building). It’s not walkable. The rents in the R-B corridor are higher than in other parts of the county. So if I were a developer looking to build a rental that’s where it would make sense to focus.

I agree with this. And to put an even finer point on it, the developers will look for land alone the Rosslyn-Ballston corridor that’s the cheapest. Which means not Lyon Village. That neighborhood is the most expensive per square foot in all of Arlington County. If the developers want to build plexes to rent out, they will target places like Virginia Square and Lyon Park where the land prices are lower. Maybe duplexes make sense in LV, but I think the building lots are too expensive for a 4-6 plex of rental units. There are other metro-accessible neighborhoods with cheaper lots.

Two of the MM projects are in Lyon Village. One on Danvilel St.and one on Jackson St.

No there’s one duplex on N Jackson. Unless Danville just got filed. What’s the Danville address?

Not Danville, Daniel.

https://www.arlingtonva.us/Government/Programs/Building/Permits/EHO/Tracker

There is one on Daniel but the one we just filed is on Danville.

The proposed 6 plex on N Daniel is for a 6000 SF lot but the county’s webpage says the following:

Lots not meeting these minimum dimensional standards can be developed with EHO project if the lot is nonconforming, per ACZO §16.1.1 Nonconforming Lots. EHO development on nonconforming lots is limited to no more than four (4) dwelling units unless the lot is 7,000 sq. ft. or more.


What am I missing? Doesn’t the lot have to be 7000 SF for a 6 plex? Any builders or realtors have the answer to this question?

For conforming lots, 6,000 sqft is required for 5-6 dwellings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So begins the decline of Arlington. More people will choose McLean or Bethesda once they see how neighborhoods get transformed by this stupidity.

I don’t think this will happen. I think people will continue to want Arlington for their commutes, or being near amenities, etc. Many of us may go private (like our family). But Arlington is still going to be desirable.

For many people, the dream of owning a SFH is about being on a quiet, peaceful street relatively free of density, not one clogged with cars and people. If people want density, they choose a townhouse or condo. Make no mistake, many people's property values will be negatively impacted.

It's like when you're considering buying a house, but the one next door has all the hallmarks of being inhabited by a hoarder (stuff all over the lawn and backyard, poorly cared for) -- you take a pass and wait for something better to come along. No different here.

Yesterday I literally had someone tell me they chose a SFH in Arlington bc it reminded them of a “city.” The home buying demographic is changing. People are valuing different things.

Perhaps they were looking more over in Lyon Village, which does feel like the city as opposed to homes in the Williamsburg, country club Hills, etc. neighborhoods.

DP. I don’t see the incentives for MM housing in those neighborhoods and if you look at the map most of the MM projects are near amenities. I live in a SFH in 22207 because when we outgrew our condo in LV we couldn’t afford a SFH in that neighborhood. I would never rent here or buy a duplex or multi family housing (unless I could purchase the whole building). It’s not walkable. The rents in the R-B corridor are higher than in other parts of the county. So if I were a developer looking to build a rental that’s where it would make sense to focus.

I agree with this. And to put an even finer point on it, the developers will look for land alone the Rosslyn-Ballston corridor that’s the cheapest. Which means not Lyon Village. That neighborhood is the most expensive per square foot in all of Arlington County. If the developers want to build plexes to rent out, they will target places like Virginia Square and Lyon Park where the land prices are lower. Maybe duplexes make sense in LV, but I think the building lots are too expensive for a 4-6 plex of rental units. There are other metro-accessible neighborhoods with cheaper lots.

Two of the MM projects are in Lyon Village. One on Danvilel St.and one on Jackson St.

No there’s one duplex on N Jackson. Unless Danville just got filed. What’s the Danville address?

Not Danville, Daniel.

https://www.arlingtonva.us/Government/Programs/Building/Permits/EHO/Tracker

There is one on Daniel but the one we just filed is on Danville.

The proposed 6 plex on N Daniel is for a 6000 SF lot but the county’s webpage says the following:

Lots not meeting these minimum dimensional standards can be developed with EHO project if the lot is nonconforming, per ACZO §16.1.1 Nonconforming Lots. EHO development on nonconforming lots is limited to no more than four (4) dwelling units unless the lot is 7,000 sq. ft. or more.


What am I missing? Doesn’t the lot have to be 7000 SF for a 6 plex? Any builders or realtors have the answer to this question?

For conforming lots, 6,000 sqft is required for 5-6 dwellings.

Thanks for choking in. I have been really confused about that distinction ever since this passed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So begins the decline of Arlington. More people will choose McLean or Bethesda once they see how neighborhoods get transformed by this stupidity.

I don’t think this will happen. I think people will continue to want Arlington for their commutes, or being near amenities, etc. Many of us may go private (like our family). But Arlington is still going to be desirable.

For many people, the dream of owning a SFH is about being on a quiet, peaceful street relatively free of density, not one clogged with cars and people. If people want density, they choose a townhouse or condo. Make no mistake, many people's property values will be negatively impacted.

It's like when you're considering buying a house, but the one next door has all the hallmarks of being inhabited by a hoarder (stuff all over the lawn and backyard, poorly cared for) -- you take a pass and wait for something better to come along. No different here.

Yesterday I literally had someone tell me they chose a SFH in Arlington bc it reminded them of a “city.” The home buying demographic is changing. People are valuing different things.

Perhaps they were looking more over in Lyon Village, which does feel like the city as opposed to homes in the Williamsburg, country club Hills, etc. neighborhoods.

DP. I don’t see the incentives for MM housing in those neighborhoods and if you look at the map most of the MM projects are near amenities. I live in a SFH in 22207 because when we outgrew our condo in LV we couldn’t afford a SFH in that neighborhood. I would never rent here or buy a duplex or multi family housing (unless I could purchase the whole building). It’s not walkable. The rents in the R-B corridor are higher than in other parts of the county. So if I were a developer looking to build a rental that’s where it would make sense to focus.

I agree with this. And to put an even finer point on it, the developers will look for land alone the Rosslyn-Ballston corridor that’s the cheapest. Which means not Lyon Village. That neighborhood is the most expensive per square foot in all of Arlington County. If the developers want to build plexes to rent out, they will target places like Virginia Square and Lyon Park where the land prices are lower. Maybe duplexes make sense in LV, but I think the building lots are too expensive for a 4-6 plex of rental units. There are other metro-accessible neighborhoods with cheaper lots.

Two of the MM projects are in Lyon Village. One on Danvilel St.and one on Jackson St.

No there’s one duplex on N Jackson. Unless Danville just got filed. What’s the Danville address?

Not Danville, Daniel.

https://www.arlingtonva.us/Government/Programs/Building/Permits/EHO/Tracker

There is one on Daniel but the one we just filed is on Danville.

The proposed 6 plex on N Daniel is for a 6000 SF lot but the county’s webpage says the following:

Lots not meeting these minimum dimensional standards can be developed with EHO project if the lot is nonconforming, per ACZO §16.1.1 Nonconforming Lots. EHO development on nonconforming lots is limited to no more than four (4) dwelling units unless the lot is 7,000 sq. ft. or more.


What am I missing? Doesn’t the lot have to be 7000 SF for a 6 plex? Any builders or realtors have the answer to this question?

For conforming lots, 6,000 sqft is required for 5-6 dwellings.

Thanks for choking in. I have been really confused about that distinction ever since this passed.

Chiming not choking!!! Thanks for CHIMING in!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So begins the decline of Arlington. More people will choose McLean or Bethesda once they see how neighborhoods get transformed by this stupidity.

I don’t think this will happen. I think people will continue to want Arlington for their commutes, or being near amenities, etc. Many of us may go private (like our family). But Arlington is still going to be desirable.

For many people, the dream of owning a SFH is about being on a quiet, peaceful street relatively free of density, not one clogged with cars and people. If people want density, they choose a townhouse or condo. Make no mistake, many people's property values will be negatively impacted.

It's like when you're considering buying a house, but the one next door has all the hallmarks of being inhabited by a hoarder (stuff all over the lawn and backyard, poorly cared for) -- you take a pass and wait for something better to come along. No different here.

Yesterday I literally had someone tell me they chose a SFH in Arlington bc it reminded them of a “city.” The home buying demographic is changing. People are valuing different things.

Perhaps they were looking more over in Lyon Village, which does feel like the city as opposed to homes in the Williamsburg, country club Hills, etc. neighborhoods.

DP. I don’t see the incentives for MM housing in those neighborhoods and if you look at the map most of the MM projects are near amenities. I live in a SFH in 22207 because when we outgrew our condo in LV we couldn’t afford a SFH in that neighborhood. I would never rent here or buy a duplex or multi family housing (unless I could purchase the whole building). It’s not walkable. The rents in the R-B corridor are higher than in other parts of the county. So if I were a developer looking to build a rental that’s where it would make sense to focus.

I agree with this. And to put an even finer point on it, the developers will look for land alone the Rosslyn-Ballston corridor that’s the cheapest. Which means not Lyon Village. That neighborhood is the most expensive per square foot in all of Arlington County. If the developers want to build plexes to rent out, they will target places like Virginia Square and Lyon Park where the land prices are lower. Maybe duplexes make sense in LV, but I think the building lots are too expensive for a 4-6 plex of rental units. There are other metro-accessible neighborhoods with cheaper lots.

Two of the MM projects are in Lyon Village. One on Danvilel St.and one on Jackson St.

No there’s one duplex on N Jackson. Unless Danville just got filed. What’s the Danville address?

Not Danville, Daniel.

https://www.arlingtonva.us/Government/Programs/Building/Permits/EHO/Tracker

There is one on Daniel but the one we just filed is on Danville.

The proposed 6 plex on N Daniel is for a 6000 SF lot but the county’s webpage says the following:

Lots not meeting these minimum dimensional standards can be developed with EHO project if the lot is nonconforming, per ACZO §16.1.1 Nonconforming Lots. EHO development on nonconforming lots is limited to no more than four (4) dwelling units unless the lot is 7,000 sq. ft. or more.


What am I missing? Doesn’t the lot have to be 7000 SF for a 6 plex? Any builders or realtors have the answer to this question?

I think I’m about to answer my own question: is it a conforming lot bc it’s zoned R-5 and has 6000 SF?

But if it were zoned R-6 and had 5500 SF, would it be non-conforming and limited to a 4 plex?

TIA!

For the sake of completeness there is a special rule for R-5 lots that requires a minimum of 6000 sq ft for 5-6 plexes. So as a practical matter 6k square ft is the minimum for 5+ units.