Missing middle- Arlington

[Anonymous]

Someone please distinguish progressive v. liberal for me.

[Anonymous]

Is there a way to find these permits or is everyone looking at the map from ARL now?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:So begins the decline of Arlington. More people will choose McLean or Bethesda once they see how neighborhoods get transformed by this stupidity.

I don’t think this will happen. I think people will continue to want Arlington for their commutes, or being near amenities, etc. Many of us may go private (like our family). But Arlington is still going to be desirable.

For many people, the dream of owning a SFH is about being on a quiet, peaceful street relatively free of density, not one clogged with cars and people. If people want density, they choose a townhouse or condo. Make no mistake, many people's property values will be negatively impacted.

It's like when you're considering buying a house, but the one next door has all the hallmarks of being inhabited by a hoarder (stuff all over the lawn and backyard, poorly cared for) -- you take a pass and wait for something better to come along. No different here.

Yesterday I literally had someone tell me they chose a SFH in Arlington bc it reminded them of a “city.” The home buying demographic is changing. People are valuing different things.

Perhaps they were looking more over in Lyon Village, which does feel like the city as opposed to homes in the Williamsburg, country club Hills, etc. neighborhoods.

DP. I don’t see the incentives for MM housing in those neighborhoods and if you look at the map most of the MM projects are near amenities. I live in a SFH in 22207 because when we outgrew our condo in LV we couldn’t afford a SFH in that neighborhood. I would never rent here or buy a duplex or multi family housing (unless I could purchase the whole building). It’s not walkable. The rents in the R-B corridor are higher than in other parts of the county. So if I were a developer looking to build a rental that’s where it would make sense to focus.

I agree with this. And to put an even finer point on it, the developers will look for land alone the Rosslyn-Ballston corridor that’s the cheapest. Which means not Lyon Village. That neighborhood is the most expensive per square foot in all of Arlington County. If the developers want to build plexes to rent out, they will target places like Virginia Square and Lyon Park where the land prices are lower. Maybe duplexes make sense in LV, but I think the building lots are too expensive for a 4-6 plex of rental units. There are other metro-accessible neighborhoods with cheaper lots.

Two of the MM projects are in Lyon Village. One on Danvilel St.and one on Jackson St.

No there’s one duplex on N Jackson. Unless Danville just got filed. What’s the Danville address?

Just filed and will not give specific address but between 1500 and 1700 block.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:So begins the decline of Arlington. More people will choose McLean or Bethesda once they see how neighborhoods get transformed by this stupidity.

I don’t think this will happen. I think people will continue to want Arlington for their commutes, or being near amenities, etc. Many of us may go private (like our family). But Arlington is still going to be desirable.

For many people, the dream of owning a SFH is about being on a quiet, peaceful street relatively free of density, not one clogged with cars and people. If people want density, they choose a townhouse or condo. Make no mistake, many people's property values will be negatively impacted.

It's like when you're considering buying a house, but the one next door has all the hallmarks of being inhabited by a hoarder (stuff all over the lawn and backyard, poorly cared for) -- you take a pass and wait for something better to come along. No different here.

Yesterday I literally had someone tell me they chose a SFH in Arlington bc it reminded them of a “city.” The home buying demographic is changing. People are valuing different things.

Umm, OK. If someone wants a "city," there are SFHs in the "city" of DC. Arlington is a suburb.

The densest census district in the entire DMV isn’t even in DC. It’s Ballston. Like it or not, Arlington isn’t a suburb anymore.

Just because someone lives in a "city," that doesn't mean that want multiplexes next door to them. Can you imagine if this was proposed for AU Park, for example?

Like it or not, this will not help property values unless you have a teardown. If you have a $1.5 million house in North Arlington, this is bad for you -- your house is too expensive to be a teardown but if a multiplex gets build next door, your property value will decrease. Pretty telling how a PP was in favor of it but admitted to having a teardown -- those are the folks who will benefit.

I definitely hear your concern, but I still think there were decent policy reasons to make the change. And not many people were nuanced in their opposition- they want all-in asking for no change, ever.

I still think SFHs are a scarce resource in Arlington and they will get scarcer if other housing types are allowed. I just don’t see anyone losing money.

There was no good policy reason for 6 and 4-plexes of 1-2 bedroom rentals. Arlington has no shortage of 1-2 bedroom apartments. I'd have been in favor of MM if it had been limited to townhomes with off-street parking, max 3-units per site. That is the "missing" housing type that would actually be a bridge between the abundant 1-2 bedroom apartments and huge new-build SFHs that would otherwise be built on tear-down lots. Also, Arlington has shown little interest in enforcing set back requirements, reasonable heights and tree preservation when new SFHs are built so the assertion that these new units have to conform to the same requirements as a SFH on the same lot is not at all reassuring.

I’m kind of agnostic but I don’t think your position is unreasonable. Was anyone arguing for that though? I feel like the organized contingent was against any changes and TBH they came off as kind of crazy. It’s too bad nobody can ever organize around a middle ground.

Yeah, basic problem with all politics these days. I heard plenty of discussion among my circle of friends that 2-3 units per site + parking would be reasonable but that wasn't what people were yelling about. I think both sides sounded crazy (nothing but huge SFHs forever) or dishonest/idiotic as the pro-MM side spun it dishonestly as providing housing for the middle class (but not the 2-bedroom rentals they can already buy) when it was clear it would be either more small apartments or $1m+ townhomes.

I don’t disagree with your analysis.

+1

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:So begins the decline of Arlington. More people will choose McLean or Bethesda once they see how neighborhoods get transformed by this stupidity.

I don’t think this will happen. I think people will continue to want Arlington for their commutes, or being near amenities, etc. Many of us may go private (like our family). But Arlington is still going to be desirable.

For many people, the dream of owning a SFH is about being on a quiet, peaceful street relatively free of density, not one clogged with cars and people. If people want density, they choose a townhouse or condo. Make no mistake, many people's property values will be negatively impacted.

It's like when you're considering buying a house, but the one next door has all the hallmarks of being inhabited by a hoarder (stuff all over the lawn and backyard, poorly cared for) -- you take a pass and wait for something better to come along. No different here.

Yesterday I literally had someone tell me they chose a SFH in Arlington bc it reminded them of a “city.” The home buying demographic is changing. People are valuing different things.

Umm, OK. If someone wants a "city," there are SFHs in the "city" of DC. Arlington is a suburb.

The densest census district in the entire DMV isn’t even in DC. It’s Ballston. Like it or not, Arlington isn’t a suburb anymore.

Just because someone lives in a "city," that doesn't mean that want multiplexes next door to them. Can you imagine if this was proposed for AU Park, for example?

Like it or not, this will not help property values unless you have a teardown. If you have a $1.5 million house in North Arlington, this is bad for you -- your house is too expensive to be a teardown but if a multiplex gets build next door, your property value will decrease. Pretty telling how a PP was in favor of it but admitted to having a teardown -- those are the folks who will benefit.

I definitely hear your concern, but I still think there were decent policy reasons to make the change. And not many people were nuanced in their opposition- they want all-in asking for no change, ever.

I still think SFHs are a scarce resource in Arlington and they will get scarcer if other housing types are allowed. I just don’t see anyone losing money.

There was no good policy reason for 6 and 4-plexes of 1-2 bedroom rentals. Arlington has no shortage of 1-2 bedroom apartments. I'd have been in favor of MM if it had been limited to townhomes with off-street parking, max 3-units per site. That is the "missing" housing type that would actually be a bridge between the abundant 1-2 bedroom apartments and huge new-build SFHs that would otherwise be built on tear-down lots. Also, Arlington has shown little interest in enforcing set back requirements, reasonable heights and tree preservation when new SFHs are built so the assertion that these new units have to conform to the same requirements as a SFH on the same lot is not at all reassuring.

I’m kind of agnostic but I don’t think your position is unreasonable. Was anyone arguing for that though? I feel like the organized contingent was against any changes and TBH they came off as kind of crazy. It’s too bad nobody can ever organize around a middle ground.

Yeah, basic problem with all politics these days. I heard plenty of discussion among my circle of friends that 2-3 units per site + parking would be reasonable but that wasn't what people were yelling about. I think both sides sounded crazy (nothing but huge SFHs forever) or dishonest/idiotic as the pro-MM side spun it dishonestly as providing housing for the middle class (but not the 2-bedroom rentals they can already buy) when it was clear it would be either more small apartments or $1m+ townhomes.

I was in favor of fee simple duplexes with parking, like the ones around the county already. They would have served a real purpose in bringing more affordable housing types to almost every neighborhood. Instead we got a developer boondoggle.

And Katie Cristol got a high paying job in Tysons.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:So begins the decline of Arlington. More people will choose McLean or Bethesda once they see how neighborhoods get transformed by this stupidity.

I don’t think this will happen. I think people will continue to want Arlington for their commutes, or being near amenities, etc. Many of us may go private (like our family). But Arlington is still going to be desirable.

For many people, the dream of owning a SFH is about being on a quiet, peaceful street relatively free of density, not one clogged with cars and people. If people want density, they choose a townhouse or condo. Make no mistake, many people's property values will be negatively impacted.

It's like when you're considering buying a house, but the one next door has all the hallmarks of being inhabited by a hoarder (stuff all over the lawn and backyard, poorly cared for) -- you take a pass and wait for something better to come along. No different here.

Yesterday I literally had someone tell me they chose a SFH in Arlington bc it reminded them of a “city.” The home buying demographic is changing. People are valuing different things.

Perhaps they were looking more over in Lyon Village, which does feel like the city as opposed to homes in the Williamsburg, country club Hills, etc. neighborhoods.

DP. I don’t see the incentives for MM housing in those neighborhoods and if you look at the map most of the MM projects are near amenities. I live in a SFH in 22207 because when we outgrew our condo in LV we couldn’t afford a SFH in that neighborhood. I would never rent here or buy a duplex or multi family housing (unless I could purchase the whole building). It’s not walkable. The rents in the R-B corridor are higher than in other parts of the county. So if I were a developer looking to build a rental that’s where it would make sense to focus.

I agree with this. And to put an even finer point on it, the developers will look for land alone the Rosslyn-Ballston corridor that’s the cheapest. Which means not Lyon Village. That neighborhood is the most expensive per square foot in all of Arlington County. If the developers want to build plexes to rent out, they will target places like Virginia Square and Lyon Park where the land prices are lower. Maybe duplexes make sense in LV, but I think the building lots are too expensive for a 4-6 plex of rental units. There are other metro-accessible neighborhoods with cheaper lots.

Two of the MM projects are in Lyon Village. One on Danvilel St.and one on Jackson St.

No there’s one duplex on N Jackson. Unless Danville just got filed. What’s the Danville address?

Just filed and will not give specific address but between 1500 and 1700 block.

Dang! Is it a 6 pled?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't move to a SFH within close distance to a 4-plex or 6-plex. If I wanted density, I wouldn't be choosing a SFH.

As someone who lives in Ashton Heights, we already have missing middle housing in parts of the neighborhood — particularly the blocks closer to Clarendon — and people are building new $3 million + houses and consistently buying homes in the $1.5 - 2.5 million right near these Multifamily building with 4-10 units. The same thing is happening in Lyon Park and Lyon Village. Honestly my guess is having to spend $1.25 - 1.5 million for a lot in these neighborhoods is going to lead to high end condos and rentals built in those new 6 plexes. Right now there are a number of terrible single family home rentals with loud 20 something’s partying and being very loud. My guess is the new neighbors “fit” in the neighborhood more and the end result is people will be happier. All of this is much ado about nothing. And to the poster that said people don’t move to Arlington for an urban experience, give me a break! Nearly 3/4 of our residents already live in Multifamily housing.

This. You may not want to live near a multiplex, but plenty of people don’t mind, and they are paying millions. We live next door to a world class city. The 20 somethings are probably about to be priced out from those group houses…

No offense, but you need to think about this more. Look at the two neighborhoods you listed...do they have a common denominator that you won't find in other areas of Arlington previously zoned exclusively for SFH? To point out the obvious: proximity to the Metro. Clarendon and Ballston are thriving areas with wonderful amenities nearby that simply won't be replicated across the county. Indeed, they're not even being replicated in other metro-adjacent neighborhoods.

Additionally, when you're talking about new builds or existing homes going for millions in these neighborhoods, how close are they to multi-family dwellings? Are we talking about homes that are on the same block? Right next door to multi-dwelling units? I think it's fairly obvious that isn't the case even if homes are selling in the same broader neighborhood for millions. Which, again, is not to say those homes will not appreciate in value. They will...but not at the same rate as homes removed from multi-dwelling units.

The point being this: it's completely fine to support MMH if you believe the pros outweigh the cons. But, can we stop pretending that the cons don't exist? Someone will absolutely lose if multi-dwelling units spread in non-metro adjacent neighborhoods across Arlington. It will almost certainly be existing SFH owners with units right next to new multi-family dwellings. If, from your perspective, the loss to the SFH owner is outweighed by the benefit of denser housing so be it. Let's just be honest in the assessment.

My problem with MMH isn't the potential impact on SFH owners in Arlington (of which, I am one). It's that no thought is being given to why additional density is desirable in Arlington in the first place let alone the potential impact on community services, infrastructure, and so forth. Additionally, if we are going to have greater density, I want a housing program that prioritizes current Arlington residents stay in place (e.g. help Arlington renters become Arlington homeowners) with a focus on lower-income residents. Multi-dwelling units, owned by a housing trust established by Arlington County, with first-time homebuyer assistance for Arlington residents that have lived in Arlington for 5+ years would be fantastic. If Arlington County doesn't have that authority...why isn't it fighting tooth and nail for it from the state government?

As it stands, Arlington's MMH program is a giveaway to developers that will achieve greater density without greater socio-economic diversity or even greater homeownership in Arlington. The County's answer to everything is "the market" will determine what happens...and this coming from Democrats that otherwise should know that the "market" will put profits over people every single time. As a Democrat, that alone is infuriating. Developers will tear down SFH and then replace them with 4-6plexes that will either be rented out at market rate or sold for more money than the average Arlingtonian can reasonably afford.

Here are a couple examples. First one backs to a Multifamily building and it sold above asking very quickly:

https://www.zillow.com/ho...e=txtshare

Second one is 807 N Jackson. This lot sold for $1.3 million and the beautiful modern home, I’d guess between 6-7,000 sq ft must have been at least $2 million or more to build. It is next door three multi-family buildings.

Also, most of the permits submitted for missing middle housing construction were in neighborhoods like mine and others along the metro corridor. I think there is less of a demand for $900,000 condos in your neighborhood so you should be alright.

One other point: you can’t both be worried about people being priced out of homes, i.e. saying homes that Arlingtonians can reasonably afford and be concerned about a potential hit to your property value. The most likely outcome of MMH is that it increases the price of single family homes, because land value increases even more than it already has. If you’d like to look at comparable places that have long had a mix of single family homes and MMH I would point you to Santa Monica and Cambridge. Both have incredibly expensive real estate and people that live in $5 million single family homes next to Multifamily houses. We live next door to the nations Capitol. Seems reasonable people would pay a lot to be here.

Here’s what I’ve witnessed in places similar to arlington in spirit that is a haven for MMH, coconut grove Florida. The most expensive housing market in the country right now. My mother live in a 7-plex there. Her complex are all retirees who moved there for the village atmosphere and amenities. 20 somethings cannot afford those MMHs. Single family homes closer to the center of the village are outrageously expensive, the homes further away but are close enough, like pinecrest area for example are less desirable to the young and old alike, but still expensive. As far as arlington is concerned, you can already see a demographic change happening in the Rosslyn-Ballston corridor. Lots of empty nester in expensive condos wanting to be in close proximity to young professionals for the vibrancy. Done right, I suspect MMH are going to attract a lot of those empty nesters as well who wants the village amenities in arlington but don’t want to live in a high rise. That’s what we did. We wanted to be close to the corridor but didn’t want to live in a high rise. We bought a 1.5 mil TH 6 years ago even though we could have easily afford a 2 mil for a sfh. However, we didn’t want the yard work and be too far away from the village center. All of our neighbors in the 20 unit complex are empty nesters except two 30 somethings foreigners. Resales are from 1.6-1.8 so far. Neighbors professions are generals, tech, contractors, journalists, diplomats, young professional athletes. I just don’t see MMH as threat the way some do, the land is too expensive.

[Anonymous]

This is just an observation and not necessarily relevant to anything that’s been said yet. It seems like the 4-6 plexes need at least 6000 SF. What will happen on the 4000-5900SF lots? Any builders or realtors have a guess? Bc we DO have some very small lots in Arlington and that’s what I have been curious about. What happens there?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is just an observation and not necessarily relevant to anything that’s been said yet. It seems like the 4-6 plexes need at least 6000 SF. What will happen on the 4000-5900SF lots? Any builders or realtors have a guess? Bc we DO have some very small lots in Arlington and that’s what I have been curious about. What happens there?

I talked to the builder who bought what he told me was an R5 lot close to Virginia Square. He is building two semi-detached houses, each with 4 bedrooms and 4 baths and 2 parking spaces. He has an investor lined up who will buy them around $1.3 M, depending on cost of materials. Investor thinks he can rent them for $4,500 a month to either someone who wants easy living in a nice clean rental or four young professionals who don't want one of the grungy older rental houses and pay $1,150 for a room and bath and common kitchen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is just an observation and not necessarily relevant to anything that’s been said yet. It seems like the 4-6 plexes need at least 6000 SF. What will happen on the 4000-5900SF lots? Any builders or realtors have a guess? Bc we DO have some very small lots in Arlington and that’s what I have been curious about. What happens there?

I talked to the builder who bought what he told me was an R5 lot close to Virginia Square. He is building two semi-detached houses, each with 4 bedrooms and 4 baths and 2 parking spaces. He has an investor lined up who will buy them around $1.3 M, depending on cost of materials. Investor thinks he can rent them for $4,500 a month to either someone who wants easy living in a nice clean rental or four young professionals who don't want one of the grungy older rental houses and pay $1,150 for a room and bath and common kitchen.

That’s the kind of thing I was curious about. So even though it’s a duplex, in this case, nobody is getting on the property ladder and it’s even more people than would be in a 6 plex.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is just an observation and not necessarily relevant to anything that’s been said yet. It seems like the 4-6 plexes need at least 6000 SF. What will happen on the 4000-5900SF lots? Any builders or realtors have a guess? Bc we DO have some very small lots in Arlington and that’s what I have been curious about. What happens there?

I talked to the builder who bought what he told me was an R5 lot close to Virginia Square. He is building two semi-detached houses, each with 4 bedrooms and 4 baths and 2 parking spaces. He has an investor lined up who will buy them around $1.3 M, depending on cost of materials. Investor thinks he can rent them for $4,500 a month to either someone who wants easy living in a nice clean rental or four young professionals who don't want one of the grungy older rental houses and pay $1,150 for a room and bath and common kitchen.

That’s the kind of thing I was curious about. So even though it’s a duplex, in this case, nobody is getting on the property ladder and it’s even more people than would be in a 6 plex.

For this particular builder, the investors will benefit as any investor in rental property would benefit. The investor might sell them to an owner occupant, but the initial appeal is to get a tenant or tenants who want to live in a new unit. The same builder has another lot that is R6 and is waffling between doing a single family house or three townhouses. He is waiting to see how the semi-detacheds do before he commits to it one way or the other. Meanwhile, the old house is rented to three young professionals with dogs. Dog owners who want a patch of grass and divorced parents who want schools are is target market.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:So begins the decline of Arlington. More people will choose McLean or Bethesda once they see how neighborhoods get transformed by this stupidity.

I don’t think this will happen. I think people will continue to want Arlington for their commutes, or being near amenities, etc. Many of us may go private (like our family). But Arlington is still going to be desirable.

For many people, the dream of owning a SFH is about being on a quiet, peaceful street relatively free of density, not one clogged with cars and people. If people want density, they choose a townhouse or condo. Make no mistake, many people's property values will be negatively impacted.

It's like when you're considering buying a house, but the one next door has all the hallmarks of being inhabited by a hoarder (stuff all over the lawn and backyard, poorly cared for) -- you take a pass and wait for something better to come along. No different here.

Yesterday I literally had someone tell me they chose a SFH in Arlington bc it reminded them of a “city.” The home buying demographic is changing. People are valuing different things.

Perhaps they were looking more over in Lyon Village, which does feel like the city as opposed to homes in the Williamsburg, country club Hills, etc. neighborhoods.

DP. I don’t see the incentives for MM housing in those neighborhoods and if you look at the map most of the MM projects are near amenities. I live in a SFH in 22207 because when we outgrew our condo in LV we couldn’t afford a SFH in that neighborhood. I would never rent here or buy a duplex or multi family housing (unless I could purchase the whole building). It’s not walkable. The rents in the R-B corridor are higher than in other parts of the county. So if I were a developer looking to build a rental that’s where it would make sense to focus.

I agree with this. And to put an even finer point on it, the developers will look for land alone the Rosslyn-Ballston corridor that’s the cheapest. Which means not Lyon Village. That neighborhood is the most expensive per square foot in all of Arlington County. If the developers want to build plexes to rent out, they will target places like Virginia Square and Lyon Park where the land prices are lower. Maybe duplexes make sense in LV, but I think the building lots are too expensive for a 4-6 plex of rental units. There are other metro-accessible neighborhoods with cheaper lots.

Two of the MM projects are in Lyon Village. One on Danvilel St.and one on Jackson St.

No there’s one duplex on N Jackson. Unless Danville just got filed. What’s the Danville address?

Not Danville, Daniel.

https://www.arlingtonva.us/Government/Programs/Building/Permits/EHO/Tracker

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is just an observation and not necessarily relevant to anything that’s been said yet. It seems like the 4-6 plexes need at least 6000 SF. What will happen on the 4000-5900SF lots? Any builders or realtors have a guess? Bc we DO have some very small lots in Arlington and that’s what I have been curious about. What happens there?

I talked to the builder who bought what he told me was an R5 lot close to Virginia Square. He is building two semi-detached houses, each with 4 bedrooms and 4 baths and 2 parking spaces. He has an investor lined up who will buy them around $1.3 M, depending on cost of materials. Investor thinks he can rent them for $4,500 a month to either someone who wants easy living in a nice clean rental or four young professionals who don't want one of the grungy older rental houses and pay $1,150 for a room and bath and common kitchen.

That’s the kind of thing I was curious about. So even though it’s a duplex, in this case, nobody is getting on the property ladder and it’s even more people than would be in a 6 plex.

For this particular builder, the investors will benefit as any investor in rental property would benefit. The investor might sell them to an owner occupant, but the initial appeal is to get a tenant or tenants who want to live in a new unit. The same builder has another lot that is R6 and is waffling between doing a single family house or three townhouses. He is waiting to see how the semi-detacheds do before he commits to it one way or the other. Meanwhile, the old house is rented to three young professionals with dogs. Dog owners who want a patch of grass and divorced parents who want schools are is target market.

The point is (DP here) in these scenarios we aren't adding new homeowners to Arlington. Its investors who already can afford property who will be renting them out. This is not teachers buying homes as we were sold...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is just an observation and not necessarily relevant to anything that’s been said yet. It seems like the 4-6 plexes need at least 6000 SF. What will happen on the 4000-5900SF lots? Any builders or realtors have a guess? Bc we DO have some very small lots in Arlington and that’s what I have been curious about. What happens there?

I talked to the builder who bought what he told me was an R5 lot close to Virginia Square. He is building two semi-detached houses, each with 4 bedrooms and 4 baths and 2 parking spaces. He has an investor lined up who will buy them around $1.3 M, depending on cost of materials. Investor thinks he can rent them for $4,500 a month to either someone who wants easy living in a nice clean rental or four young professionals who don't want one of the grungy older rental houses and pay $1,150 for a room and bath and common kitchen.

That’s the kind of thing I was curious about. So even though it’s a duplex, in this case, nobody is getting on the property ladder and it’s even more people than would be in a 6 plex.

For this particular builder, the investors will benefit as any investor in rental property would benefit. The investor might sell them to an owner occupant, but the initial appeal is to get a tenant or tenants who want to live in a new unit. The same builder has another lot that is R6 and is waffling between doing a single family house or three townhouses. He is waiting to see how the semi-detacheds do before he commits to it one way or the other. Meanwhile, the old house is rented to three young professionals with dogs. Dog owners who want a patch of grass and divorced parents who want schools are is target market.

The point is (DP here) in these scenarios we aren't adding new homeowners to Arlington. Its investors who already can afford property who will be renting them out. This is not teachers buying homes as we were sold...

And what I really don’t like about this situation is that it’s taking units offline and further pressuring pricing for people who want to buy.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:So begins the decline of Arlington. More people will choose McLean or Bethesda once they see how neighborhoods get transformed by this stupidity.

I don’t think this will happen. I think people will continue to want Arlington for their commutes, or being near amenities, etc. Many of us may go private (like our family). But Arlington is still going to be desirable.

For many people, the dream of owning a SFH is about being on a quiet, peaceful street relatively free of density, not one clogged with cars and people. If people want density, they choose a townhouse or condo. Make no mistake, many people's property values will be negatively impacted.

It's like when you're considering buying a house, but the one next door has all the hallmarks of being inhabited by a hoarder (stuff all over the lawn and backyard, poorly cared for) -- you take a pass and wait for something better to come along. No different here.

Yesterday I literally had someone tell me they chose a SFH in Arlington bc it reminded them of a “city.” The home buying demographic is changing. People are valuing different things.

Perhaps they were looking more over in Lyon Village, which does feel like the city as opposed to homes in the Williamsburg, country club Hills, etc. neighborhoods.

DP. I don’t see the incentives for MM housing in those neighborhoods and if you look at the map most of the MM projects are near amenities. I live in a SFH in 22207 because when we outgrew our condo in LV we couldn’t afford a SFH in that neighborhood. I would never rent here or buy a duplex or multi family housing (unless I could purchase the whole building). It’s not walkable. The rents in the R-B corridor are higher than in other parts of the county. So if I were a developer looking to build a rental that’s where it would make sense to focus.

I agree with this. And to put an even finer point on it, the developers will look for land alone the Rosslyn-Ballston corridor that’s the cheapest. Which means not Lyon Village. That neighborhood is the most expensive per square foot in all of Arlington County. If the developers want to build plexes to rent out, they will target places like Virginia Square and Lyon Park where the land prices are lower. Maybe duplexes make sense in LV, but I think the building lots are too expensive for a 4-6 plex of rental units. There are other metro-accessible neighborhoods with cheaper lots.

Two of the MM projects are in Lyon Village. One on Danvilel St.and one on Jackson St.

No there’s one duplex on N Jackson. Unless Danville just got filed. What’s the Danville address?

Not Danville, Daniel.

https://www.arlingtonva.us/Government/Programs/Building/Permits/EHO/Tracker

Cool tracker, thanks! I think PP was insinuating that something was filed yesterday on N Danville in Lyon Village in the 1500 block.