Are we racist? What would you do? Any Indian people here?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP is an expat living in Dubai
For Dubai the rules are:
Always remember that it is not your country
Never get into a fight or argument with a local

An Australian was deported because she took a photo of a car that had taken 2 parking spaces in her condo unit. She had posted it in her local facebook group that was closed to only members of the condo association

The car had belonged to a local and he was able to get her deported

Always be very careful with what you say or complain about, it is the Middle East
I am surprised that the management company accommodated you as much as they did

Spoken by someone who doesn't know Dubai. In the first place, this Arab is most definitely not an Emirati local. Only Emiratis have "influence."

I'm pretty convinced this is a made up story so I'm not going to keep posting on here. But people who have no experience with Dubai should be careful before offering advice on a place they know nothing aboht.

You’re convinced she’s trolling because she’s in Dubai in the summer? Huh? Your 2 years in Dubai as a jr banker or whatever don’t give you a monopoly on all possible Dubai expat scenarios.

1. OP is not a Dubai resident. She is there for the summer. Because she is not a resident, she does not have a residency visa. Which means the only type of property she could be renting is a hotel, and by extension, hotel apartments. UAE visa laws are very strict about requiring a residency visa for a rental contract. Some of us are a bit surprised she would chose Dubai for her summer duration because of the weather and also because it's a very expensive city, meanwhile there are scads of cheaper and cooler destinations she could have gone to. But we can leave that aside for now.

And I should point out that the way residency visa works is that you don't hold on to them after leaving the country. Visa laws are strictly regulated and employers follow them closely because they cost money and employers are also liable for their employees through the visas. As soon as an employee leaves a company, the visa is cancelled as soon as possible. So OP and her husband can't be former residents holding on to existing visas to rent a property.

2. Hotel apartments are month to month leases. They only roll over to the next month with agreement and payment, not by default. Which means she should be able to leave at the end of the month if she wanted to and not stay the full three months. Besides, I'm very confident that as she's a tourist on a tourist visa, it means she can't commit to a three month lease. While visa law are forever evolving, last I heard American expats get 60 day visa on arrival and in theory have to leave, although they can just reenter the country via a visa run to Oman or elsewhere. But this should indicate why it's unlikely it would be feasible for her to be locked into a three month hotel apartment lease.

3. I can see smoking happening in a non-smoking building or floor. But that building management hasn't offered to move OP to a different unit is very odd. Building managements of hotel apartments are used to moving guests to different units all the time due to noise etc. I lived in short term hotel apartments on various occasions and this is really not an issue in a place like Dubai. OP claims she's paying 18k for a three month stay, and that puts her in the better quality range of hotel apartments, especially with the cheaper summer rates. Not the very best or fanciest, but not the ordinary ones in Bur Dubai or Karama or Oud Metha, nor the cheaper buildings in Barsha Heights or JLT or the dusty boonies. At that budget, such places would definitely take smoking violations seriously and at a minimum, move her to a different floor.

4. A German manager is a feasible concept at the better quality hotel apartments, which fits with OP's budget, but such a person wouldn't act in the way we are told. At that level we're dealing with corporate standards with corporate management typical of hotel chains, not dodgy buildings on back streets in Karama or Deira. UAE is hugely diverse with visitors and residents from all over the world, including Israel these days. There are flights between the UAE and Israel.

5. Arabs are not by default a protected race in Dubai. Only Emiratis and to an extent other Gulf Arabs are "protected," but even that varies greatly due to family status and connections. Most Arabs in Dubai are not Emiratis or Gulf Arabs. And Lebanese or Jordanian Arab does not "pull rank" above a Western expat or visitor. Dubai authorities especially hate it when Arab expats try to be too big for their britches and pull rank. Further, an affluent Arab who can afford this kind of hotel apartment is unlikely to behave in this manner with excessive smoking on a non-smoking floor, leaving his door open, nor would building management be afraid of speaking to him.

Which is why those of us who have lived in Dubai find aspects of this story a little puzzling and that's not even getting into how the Arab knows OP is Jewish. And before someone says something about "looking like a Jewish person," when you live in the Middle East you realize there are many Middle Easterners and North Africans who look very much what you might think of as a stereotypical Jewish person. Either that or they look like any European or American nationality.

And that's it. If OP is really sincere, she does have avenues, namely getting the hotel management to move her to a different floor.

omg get a hobby

The op’s post was very informative and highlights the holes in the OP’s little story.

No, it was fanfic based on PP’s tour of an expat for a year or two in Dubai.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP is an expat living in Dubai
For Dubai the rules are:
Always remember that it is not your country
Never get into a fight or argument with a local

An Australian was deported because she took a photo of a car that had taken 2 parking spaces in her condo unit. She had posted it in her local facebook group that was closed to only members of the condo association

The car had belonged to a local and he was able to get her deported

Always be very careful with what you say or complain about, it is the Middle East
I am surprised that the management company accommodated you as much as they did

Spoken by someone who doesn't know Dubai. In the first place, this Arab is most definitely not an Emirati local. Only Emiratis have "influence."

I'm pretty convinced this is a made up story so I'm not going to keep posting on here. But people who have no experience with Dubai should be careful before offering advice on a place they know nothing aboht.

You’re convinced she’s trolling because she’s in Dubai in the summer? Huh? Your 2 years in Dubai as a jr banker or whatever don’t give you a monopoly on all possible Dubai expat scenarios.

1. OP is not a Dubai resident. She is there for the summer. Because she is not a resident, she does not have a residency visa. Which means the only type of property she could be renting is a hotel, and by extension, hotel apartments. UAE visa laws are very strict about requiring a residency visa for a rental contract. Some of us are a bit surprised she would chose Dubai for her summer duration because of the weather and also because it's a very expensive city, meanwhile there are scads of cheaper and cooler destinations she could have gone to. But we can leave that aside for now.

And I should point out that the way residency visa works is that you don't hold on to them after leaving the country. Visa laws are strictly regulated and employers follow them closely because they cost money and employers are also liable for their employees through the visas. As soon as an employee leaves a company, the visa is cancelled as soon as possible. So OP and her husband can't be former residents holding on to existing visas to rent a property.

2. Hotel apartments are month to month leases. They only roll over to the next month with agreement and payment, not by default. Which means she should be able to leave at the end of the month if she wanted to and not stay the full three months. Besides, I'm very confident that as she's a tourist on a tourist visa, it means she can't commit to a three month lease. While visa law are forever evolving, last I heard American expats get 60 day visa on arrival and in theory have to leave, although they can just reenter the country via a visa run to Oman or elsewhere. But this should indicate why it's unlikely it would be feasible for her to be locked into a three month hotel apartment lease.

3. I can see smoking happening in a non-smoking building or floor. But that building management hasn't offered to move OP to a different unit is very odd. Building managements of hotel apartments are used to moving guests to different units all the time due to noise etc. I lived in short term hotel apartments on various occasions and this is really not an issue in a place like Dubai. OP claims she's paying 18k for a three month stay, and that puts her in the better quality range of hotel apartments, especially with the cheaper summer rates. Not the very best or fanciest, but not the ordinary ones in Bur Dubai or Karama or Oud Metha, nor the cheaper buildings in Barsha Heights or JLT or the dusty boonies. At that budget, such places would definitely take smoking violations seriously and at a minimum, move her to a different floor.

4. A German manager is a feasible concept at the better quality hotel apartments, which fits with OP's budget, but such a person wouldn't act in the way we are told. At that level we're dealing with corporate standards with corporate management typical of hotel chains, not dodgy buildings on back streets in Karama or Deira. UAE is hugely diverse with visitors and residents from all over the world, including Israel these days. There are flights between the UAE and Israel.

5. Arabs are not by default a protected race in Dubai. Only Emiratis and to an extent other Gulf Arabs are "protected," but even that varies greatly due to family status and connections. Most Arabs in Dubai are not Emiratis or Gulf Arabs. And Lebanese or Jordanian Arab does not "pull rank" above a Western expat or visitor. Dubai authorities especially hate it when Arab expats try to be too big for their britches and pull rank. Further, an affluent Arab who can afford this kind of hotel apartment is unlikely to behave in this manner with excessive smoking on a non-smoking floor, leaving his door open, nor would building management be afraid of speaking to him.

Which is why those of us who have lived in Dubai find aspects of this story a little puzzling and that's not even getting into how the Arab knows OP is Jewish. And before someone says something about "looking like a Jewish person," when you live in the Middle East you realize there are many Middle Easterners and North Africans who look very much what you might think of as a stereotypical Jewish person. Either that or they look like any European or American nationality.

And that's it. If OP is really sincere, she does have avenues, namely getting the hotel management to move her to a different floor.

omg get a hobby

Not pp, but you are projecting and should get a hobby yourself. Lastly, who starts a sentence with “omg”? Are you 12?

[Anonymous]

OP, you have two issues going on.
1) You have a breach in your lease agreement about the non-smoking floor. The management company should either comply with the agreement or refund you. A lawyer may need to be involved to enforce the terms.

2) You're being bullied, plain and simple. You can let it distract you from the main issue at hand (above) or you focus on resolving the breach of the lease terms.

You are a Jewish person in a Muslim country so you need to have a thick skin. Most minorities have learned to develop a thick skin so get on it.

[Anonymous]

There’s still only one right answer. Work through your employers global mobility team and get a switch in housing. It’s not that hard.

All the other prose on this thread are speculative and pointless. When you have a problem like this, no matter where you live, your employer is there to help as the party that brought you there to begin with. The end.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most folks have covered the move out part..

On the swastika:

https://journalsofindia.com/ancient-indian-symbol-of-the-swastika/

The swastika is commonly seen in India today as a ubiquitous symbol adorning temples, homes, vehicles, and on walls above entrances and doors and it carries a purely auspicious and welcoming meaning.

Unlike the black hakenkreuz of the Nazis, the swastika used by Indians is usually red or yellow in colour, is not tilted to the right, and has dots at each corner, which are believed to represent the four Vedas.
Swastika symbol adoption by Hitler-

Despite its association for centuries with the symbolism and practice of the Hindu, Buddhist, and Jain religions, many people in Europe and America see the swastika only as the defining symbol of the antisemitic, racist, fascist Third Reich (1933-1945) of Adolf Hitler.

Yes, I understand what the swastika means in India. But Dubai is NOT INDIA. Just like the US is NOT INDIA. If drawing swastikas over someone's door is wrong in the US, which is not India, then it should be wrong in any country that is...not India.

You need to travel. Or read. Dubai was literally built by Indians. How can you be this ignorant and uninformed???

The Buddhist symbol is universal. It is not just used in India but in many parts of Asia, including in Buddhist temples in South East Asia. You need to be more culturally aware that for Buddhists, the symbol precedes and transcends the history of the Nazis and the persecution of Jews.

[Anonymous]

I don’t understand how anyone could go to Dubai and expect to live like Westerners except to the extent it pleases the people in charge. You don’t have any rights in Dubai. Open your eyes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are there accompanying your husband and not working, just return home.

I think OP said earlier that her husband was not there with her, that he was in the other country in which they ordinarily stay. If I were OP, I would do something in this order of preference:
1) If there for work, tell my employer I need to be immediately relocated and they will cover any costs of the move.
2) If not there for work, and I haven't paid in advance for the room, I would either: a) just go home to the other country where you usually live. or b) move to another location, and assume that it will be too difficult for them to try to come after you for the next two months' rent;
3) If I did pay for advance for the room, I would seriously consider just going home to the other country ASAP, or, if that's not possible for some reason, I would keep me and my kids inside as much as possible and avoid any contact with neighbor or anyone else in building.
But I am pretty low tolerance for any sort of misogyny or racism in other countries, especially now that I have kids. People complain about the U.S., but it is really much more tolerant and people have many more rights, than in most places in the world. The fact that your German apartment manager isn't taking this seriously is a really bad sign that he probably lives in Dubai because he hates how progressive Germany has become or something along those lines. There are some real a-holes that really admire Dubai for how well they treat the upper class folks, and how poorly they treat lower-class folks. (I'm remembering Trump's comments about how nice the airports are in Dubia and why can't LaGuardia be nice like that.)

This is just overreacting. Invite the neighbor and manager over for desert and coffee and get to know them. It’s probably all a misunderstanding

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You should have avoided Dubai in the first place. Westerners should not patronize xenophobic, homophobic, anti-Semitic dictatorships like the UAE as a rule.

You know they say the same thing about the USA. Just sayin

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most folks have covered the move out part..

On the swastika:

https://journalsofindia.com/ancient-indian-symbol-of-the-swastika/

The swastika is commonly seen in India today as a ubiquitous symbol adorning temples, homes, vehicles, and on walls above entrances and doors and it carries a purely auspicious and welcoming meaning.

Unlike the black hakenkreuz of the Nazis, the swastika used by Indians is usually red or yellow in colour, is not tilted to the right, and has dots at each corner, which are believed to represent the four Vedas.
Swastika symbol adoption by Hitler-

Despite its association for centuries with the symbolism and practice of the Hindu, Buddhist, and Jain religions, many people in Europe and America see the swastika only as the defining symbol of the antisemitic, racist, fascist Third Reich (1933-1945) of Adolf Hitler.

Yes, I understand what the swastika means in India. But Dubai is NOT INDIA. Just like the US is NOT INDIA. If drawing swastikas over someone's door is wrong in the US, which is not India, then it should be wrong in any country that is...not India.

You need to travel. Or read. Dubai was literally built by Indians. How can you be this ignorant and uninformed???

The Buddhist symbol is universal. It is not just used in India but in many parts of Asia, including in Buddhist temples in South East Asia. You need to be more culturally aware that for Buddhists, the symbol precedes and transcends the history of the Nazis and the persecution of Jews.

This. So tired of people being offended by this symbol. Why we let the hijackers of the symbol define its meaning is beyond me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should have avoided Dubai in the first place. Westerners should not patronize xenophobic, homophobic, anti-Semitic dictatorships like the UAE as a rule.

You know they say the same thing about the USA. Just sayin

America does not have a hereditary aristocracy that are enshrined as rulers of the country by law. It does not have statutory death penalty for gay people. It does not have a demographic composition where 10% are citizens and the rest are an unenfranchised servile underclass. It has democracy, rule of law, and a relatively open society that attracted the second largest Jewish population in the world. I don’t know who “they” are, but those people must be truly misinformed to even think of comparing the two countries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most folks have covered the move out part..

On the swastika:

https://journalsofindia.com/ancient-indian-symbol-of-the-swastika/

The swastika is commonly seen in India today as a ubiquitous symbol adorning temples, homes, vehicles, and on walls above entrances and doors and it carries a purely auspicious and welcoming meaning.

Unlike the black hakenkreuz of the Nazis, the swastika used by Indians is usually red or yellow in colour, is not tilted to the right, and has dots at each corner, which are believed to represent the four Vedas.
Swastika symbol adoption by Hitler-

Despite its association for centuries with the symbolism and practice of the Hindu, Buddhist, and Jain religions, many people in Europe and America see the swastika only as the defining symbol of the antisemitic, racist, fascist Third Reich (1933-1945) of Adolf Hitler.

Yes, I understand what the swastika means in India. But Dubai is NOT INDIA. Just like the US is NOT INDIA. If drawing swastikas over someone's door is wrong in the US, which is not India, then it should be wrong in any country that is...not India.

You need to travel. Or read. Dubai was literally built by Indians. How can you be this ignorant and uninformed???

The Buddhist symbol is universal. It is not just used in India but in many parts of Asia, including in Buddhist temples in South East Asia. You need to be more culturally aware that for Buddhists, the symbol precedes and transcends the history of the Nazis and the persecution of Jews.

This. So tired of people being offended by this symbol. Why we let the hijackers of the symbol define its meaning is beyond me.

The neighbor meant it as a sign of hate though.

[Anonymous]

Stick the symbol on the offensive neighbor’s door and see if it disappears. If it’s a nice peace symbol it likely won’t but if it’s meant to be hateful it will disappear in quickly. That would give you an answer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most folks have covered the move out part..

On the swastika:

https://journalsofindia.com/ancient-indian-symbol-of-the-swastika/

The swastika is commonly seen in India today as a ubiquitous symbol adorning temples, homes, vehicles, and on walls above entrances and doors and it carries a purely auspicious and welcoming meaning.

Unlike the black hakenkreuz of the Nazis, the swastika used by Indians is usually red or yellow in colour, is not tilted to the right, and has dots at each corner, which are believed to represent the four Vedas.
Swastika symbol adoption by Hitler-

Despite its association for centuries with the symbolism and practice of the Hindu, Buddhist, and Jain religions, many people in Europe and America see the swastika only as the defining symbol of the antisemitic, racist, fascist Third Reich (1933-1945) of Adolf Hitler.

Yes, I understand what the swastika means in India. But Dubai is NOT INDIA. Just like the US is NOT INDIA. If drawing swastikas over someone's door is wrong in the US, which is not India, then it should be wrong in any country that is...not India.

You need to travel. Or read. Dubai was literally built by Indians. How can you be this ignorant and uninformed???

The Buddhist symbol is universal. It is not just used in India but in many parts of Asia, including in Buddhist temples in South East Asia. You need to be more culturally aware that for Buddhists, the symbol precedes and transcends the history of the Nazis and the persecution of Jews.

This. So tired of people being offended by this symbol. Why we let the hijackers of the symbol define its meaning is beyond me.

The neighbor meant it as a sign of hate though.

You obviously aren’t Jewish.

[Anonymous]

Another former Dubai expat here. Western expats (male and female) are pretty high in their very hierarchical society. How would any of your neighbors know you are Jewish? Every employer has a PRO (Not exactly what it stands for) - they tend to know how to navigate situations like this. I would have brought in the PRO. If this had happened to us, I have no doubt that my husband’s employer would have dealt with this - either by addressing it with the apt complex or by moving us out.

[Anonymous]

Um, as many posters wrote above, the Swastika is a holy symbol for Hindus. I was just home in Bangalore, and it was everywhere - at temples, in my father's village, at his funeral, etc.

I am happily married to an American Jew for the past 20 years. My mom's eldest brother, who just died at 88, was married to a Jewish woman for more than 50 years. Get over yourself and educate yourself about other cultures.