The insane cost of elder care

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lifelong planning and savings. Also LTC insurance.

Yo soy Latina y una immigrants. Me pagaron poco los gringos y no me alcanza Para retiramlento. Nadie fue mi mentor o nada Para Saber esto. Que puedo hacer de vieja?

I'm Latina and an immigrants. The gringos paid me little for my work and I don't have enough for retirement. Nobody was my mentor or nothing to know this. What can I do now that I'm old?

Your family takes care of you.

My 2 kids have their own family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lifelong planning and savings. Also LTC insurance.

Yo soy Latina y una immigrants. Me pagaron poco los gringos y no me alcanza Para retiramlento. Nadie fue mi mentor o nada Para Saber esto. Que puedo hacer de vieja?

I'm Latina and an immigrants. The gringos paid me little for my work and I don't have enough for retirement. Nobody was my mentor or nothing to know this. What can I do now that I'm old?

Your family takes care of you.

In general, Hispanic families are far better prepared for elder care because of a culture of intergenerational living and care despite fewer on paper resources.

No we are not. Not in America.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents thought they had planned carefully but had no comprehension of elder care costs in the 21st century (neither did us kids). They were an accountant and administrative assistant with modest pensions and <$1 million in other savings. It's all gone after years of those $10k/month bills. My Dad passed at 86 and my 88-year old Mom is moving to a Medicaid facility this summer.

Sometimes that's how it goes when you get old. I have no better suggestion other than to not be sick for very long at the end.

Precisely what happened to us. My dad went to level 4 LTC at Hebrew Home in Rockville at 15K/month. Previously he'd had 24-hour private nurses at his home at ca. 30k/month. We burned through his savings, and his house sale proceeds, like a match through dry grass.

Now that he has passed, I'm wondering what to do in my own old age. "Not being sick for very long at the end" is the only solution in the US, unless you are very wealthy indeed.

+1. Unless you/your family has recenlty had to deal with elder care, you just don't get it. Unless you are independently wealthy, you can never save enough. And this is why more and more parents are moving in with their children - the money starts to run out.

Nope. There are plenty of places that are $3-5k a month.

They may start you out at that rate... but 6 mos later, that place is bought out by XXX company, and the price goes up to $6500/mo. Then another 6 mos later, they do an assessment and decide the needs have increased (although it's mostly the same as it was in the beginning) and the price goes up to $8000/mo. By this point, your parent is familiar with the routines/people at this place, so you don't want to move him/her b/c it will likely cause agitation and even more confusion.... and besides that, there are waiting lists for the other places (that are cheaper). So, you figure it can't be THAT long before they don't need any care at all. And time goes on...

The "retirement savings" of $250,000 are dwindling down month by month (after using all the parent's SS and military pension first, and then drawing the remaining balance from the retirement savings). The parent who is fully healthy stays in the marital home, but honestly, is going to be a lot better off financially when the dementia parent dies b/c she will get the use of the spousal portion of the military pension and the widow portion of the SS. For people in the midwest who stopped working 20+ yrs ago (now in their 80's) -- whose salaries were never comparable to what people earn today (and on the coasts), $250k was a very respectable retirement nestegg. But, when you start drawing down several thousand per month, and that goes on for years... it shows you where the gaps are in our care system.

I don't think it's correct to suggest that there are places for people with dementia at $3-5k/mo. That's more of a way to get people into the facility... and it assumes they are low-needs/high-functioning. That's just not the case for most people who are progressing through dementia -- they need full care.

We did not experience this. There was a small increase the second year.

Yes, there absolutely are places that are $3-5k per month for dementia.

Please provide a link to this place!

Here is one company

https://www.avalonresidentialliving.com/

There are companies like this all over the US. Numerous ones in the dmv. Half the price as larger places like Atria. You certainly don’t need to spend $10-12k per month.

These look awful. Are these Medicaid homes?

They are not awful at all! I have visited two of the properties.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lifelong planning and savings. Also LTC insurance.

Yo soy Latina y una immigrants. Me pagaron poco los gringos y no me alcanza Para retiramlento. Nadie fue mi mentor o nada Para Saber esto. Que puedo hacer de vieja?

I'm Latina and an immigrants. The gringos paid me little for my work and I don't have enough for retirement. Nobody was my mentor or nothing to know this. What can I do now that I'm old?

Your family takes care of you.

My 2 kids have their own family.

Hispanic families have a different mindset than you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lifelong planning and savings. Also LTC insurance.

Yo soy Latina y una immigrants. Me pagaron poco los gringos y no me alcanza Para retiramlento. Nadie fue mi mentor o nada Para Saber esto. Que puedo hacer de vieja?

I'm Latina and an immigrants. The gringos paid me little for my work and I don't have enough for retirement. Nobody was my mentor or nothing to know this. What can I do now that I'm old?

Your family takes care of you.

My 2 kids have their own family.

Hispanic families have a different mindset than you.

Then Medicaid assuming you’re eligible or go back home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lifelong planning and savings. Also LTC insurance.

Yo soy Latina y una immigrants. Me pagaron poco los gringos y no me alcanza Para retiramlento. Nadie fue mi mentor o nada Para Saber esto. Que puedo hacer de vieja?

I'm Latina and an immigrants. The gringos paid me little for my work and I don't have enough for retirement. Nobody was my mentor or nothing to know this. What can I do now that I'm old?

Your family takes care of you.

My 2 kids have their own family.

Hispanic families have a different mindset than you.

We are a Hispanic family. The gringos my kids married won't accept me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents thought they had planned carefully but had no comprehension of elder care costs in the 21st century (neither did us kids). They were an accountant and administrative assistant with modest pensions and <$1 million in other savings. It's all gone after years of those $10k/month bills. My Dad passed at 86 and my 88-year old Mom is moving to a Medicaid facility this summer.

Sometimes that's how it goes when you get old. I have no better suggestion other than to not be sick for very long at the end.

Precisely what happened to us. My dad went to level 4 LTC at Hebrew Home in Rockville at 15K/month. Previously he'd had 24-hour private nurses at his home at ca. 30k/month. We burned through his savings, and his house sale proceeds, like a match through dry grass.

Now that he has passed, I'm wondering what to do in my own old age. "Not being sick for very long at the end" is the only solution in the US, unless you are very wealthy indeed.

+1. Unless you/your family has recenlty had to deal with elder care, you just don't get it. Unless you are independently wealthy, you can never save enough. And this is why more and more parents are moving in with their children - the money starts to run out.

You don't have to be "independently wealthy" to buy LTC. People just don't choose to spend their money that way. My in-laws did. And we will too. My father is broke enough that we will just spend down his assets and use Medicaid.

This is just not true, this insurance is ridiculously expensive. My parents had two policies (that did not kick in for 180 days so you're stuck with the cost early on) and the lovely state of Md decided that it was okay for the premiums to increase even though their policy was sold as a lifetime locked premium. This from a very reputable insurance company. As soon as MD passed the law the insurance company doubled their monthly premiums and that was in their fifties. They had to let it go by the time they retired because the premium cost over time out weighed their possible redeeming any usage. It was not inexpensive and I hate when people throw it around as if you are a total loser for not having it. LTC is for the WEALTHY but it will become insolvent with all the wealthy boomers who purchased it once they start cashing in, there just aren't enough policy holders to support that coming disaster.

My in-laws paid $50k each upfront for their policies. No ongoing premiums.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lifelong planning and savings. Also LTC insurance.

Yo soy Latina y una immigrants. Me pagaron poco los gringos y no me alcanza Para retiramlento. Nadie fue mi mentor o nada Para Saber esto. Que puedo hacer de vieja?

I'm Latina and an immigrants. The gringos paid me little for my work and I don't have enough for retirement. Nobody was my mentor or nothing to know this. What can I do now that I'm old?

Your family takes care of you.

My 2 kids have their own family.

Hispanic families have a different mindset than you.

Then Medicaid assuming you’re eligible or go back home.

You want cheap labor then kick me out of the country?

[Anonymous]

I mean, the people on this board actually like everyone needs 15 years of round the clock care. Statistically that just isn’t true. The vast majority are under 24 months.

[Anonymous]

This may sound kind of horrible, but my dad says he is relieved that both of his parents died in quick succession when we kids were toddlers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents thought they had planned carefully but had no comprehension of elder care costs in the 21st century (neither did us kids). They were an accountant and administrative assistant with modest pensions and <$1 million in other savings. It's all gone after years of those $10k/month bills. My Dad passed at 86 and my 88-year old Mom is moving to a Medicaid facility this summer.

Sometimes that's how it goes when you get old. I have no better suggestion other than to not be sick for very long at the end.

Precisely what happened to us. My dad went to level 4 LTC at Hebrew Home in Rockville at 15K/month. Previously he'd had 24-hour private nurses at his home at ca. 30k/month. We burned through his savings, and his house sale proceeds, like a match through dry grass.

Now that he has passed, I'm wondering what to do in my own old age. "Not being sick for very long at the end" is the only solution in the US, unless you are very wealthy indeed.

+1. Unless you/your family has recenlty had to deal with elder care, you just don't get it. Unless you are independently wealthy, you can never save enough. And this is why more and more parents are moving in with their children - the money starts to run out.

You don't have to be "independently wealthy" to buy LTC. People just don't choose to spend their money that way. My in-laws did. And we will too. My father is broke enough that we will just spend down his assets and use Medicaid.

This is just not true, this insurance is ridiculously expensive. My parents had two policies (that did not kick in for 180 days so you're stuck with the cost early on) and the lovely state of Md decided that it was okay for the premiums to increase even though their policy was sold as a lifetime locked premium. This from a very reputable insurance company. As soon as MD passed the law the insurance company doubled their monthly premiums and that was in their fifties. They had to let it go by the time they retired because the premium cost over time out weighed their possible redeeming any usage. It was not inexpensive and I hate when people throw it around as if you are a total loser for not having it. LTC is for the WEALTHY but it will become insolvent with all the wealthy boomers who purchased it once they start cashing in, there just aren't enough policy holders to support that coming disaster.

My in-laws paid $50k each upfront for their policies. No ongoing premiums.

LTC insurance is well-recognized to be in dire straits--either they offer a reasonable deal and the company goes under and doesn't pay out as expected or they are increasingly unaffordable. Your in-laws better check the fine print. They may be okay or they may not be. There are so many think tanks working on how to solve this problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lifelong planning and savings. Also LTC insurance.

Yo soy Latina y una immigrants. Me pagaron poco los gringos y no me alcanza Para retiramlento. Nadie fue mi mentor o nada Para Saber esto. Que puedo hacer de vieja?

I'm Latina and an immigrants. The gringos paid me little for my work and I don't have enough for retirement. Nobody was my mentor or nothing to know this. What can I do now that I'm old?

Your family takes care of you.

My 2 kids have their own family.

Hispanic families have a different mindset than you.

We are a Hispanic family. The gringos my kids married won't accept me.

I’m sorry for their selfishness. Young people should help older people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are numerous group homes around the DMV where care is $50-75k per year.

Most people cannot afford the amounts you’re quoting. The places you are looking at are corporations paying staff low wages. The building may be pretty but the care isn’t necessarily any better.

Where are these?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I mean, the people on this board actually like everyone needs 15 years of round the clock care. Statistically that just isn’t true. The vast majority are under 24 months.

1) You don't know which you will be, and couples are rolling the dice twice. And even two years of care x 2 currently equals 400k on average.
2) You don't know what the future will hold for all of us on average. How will medical advancements impact this?
3) We are a society that has not solved this problem that in any way seems remotely reasonable and are too politically divided to likely make progress any time soon. The current system has a not small chance of bankrupting one spouse even in households that have earned well and prudently saved over their lifetimes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I plan to self-euthanize once I can no longer live independently. I’m not going to enrich some crooked private industry because I’ve kept myself in good health. I’d rather leave money and assets to my kids at age eighty than spend $100k a year for an additinal 10-15 years to gaze out of a window being fed cafeteria food and missing my old life.

By the time you decide to euthanize, you are too far gone to do it.

I have an end-of-life plan that I will communicate clearly to my kids as they get older (I’m in my thirties).

Estate planning attorney here. Unfortunately you can’t authorize your healthcare agent to pursue aid in dying. It is quite difficult to qualify under most states’ laws, at this time.

Not too hard to find some fake Percocet laced with fentanyl these days. After watching my dad suffer with cancer, this is my plan.

Once you are so obtunded, you don't have the ability to do this. You are living happily, then suddenly have a stroke on the golf course and now laying in a hospital bed, aphasic and unable to move. But you can breathe without oxygen assistance.

Best bet is to have strong Do Not Resuscitate instructions in your planning so that distraught family members don't try to put you into some rehab plan hoping you'll recover.

+ 1 million!!!