TJ Decisions are Out

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is in class of 2025 (first under new system) Says there are definitely kids at TJ in their class who are struggling academically a great deal. Attributes some of that to not putting in the effort. Other classmates try and work hard but still are struggling. They are repeating math classes (like taking math 4 again in second semester because didn’t do well enough first semester to progress to math 5). I don’t think that happened much, if at all, for classes admitted under the old system. Child believes there are more than a handful of kids that would not have gotten in under the old system. It is one thing if the kids admitted under the new system at historically underrepresented schools can thrive and are thriving at TJ. But it is very concerning and problematic when there are a lot more kids now struggling and find TJ extremely challenging. Hate to say it. But they probably should not be at TJ.

I strongly believe that those kids from underrepresented schools who are able to prevail will likely be more successful in life. Is it worth to sacrifice some more qualified kids who lost their opportunities due to the admission process change? I am not sure. I wish TJ can share some honest data about those kids so we can have an objective evaluation on that. Overall I still believe that the solution should be on making advanced resources more available to all the middle schools. It’s a shame that the VA attorney general attacked the special tutoring program for URMs. The solution should be such programs for all middle schools and a fair merit based admission process. I don’t think the Asian families really mind this special programs for URM groups as long as a fair merit based admission process is in place.

A lot of this centers on what is fair and merit-based. The old system was easily gamed. The new one is less able to identify top students because things like grade inflation make that difficult.

To me, this is why teacher recommendations are the answer. If you combine a really solid teacher rec system that is designed to compare students to one another with the 1.5% allocation and an actual holistic evaluation system (meaning scrapping the points system and, therefore, the "experience factors"), you'd get at both merit AND diversity.

+1

Taking out teacher recommendations is by far the biggest mistake. If you think the test is being gamed, there is no need to take out teacher recommendations.

The only reason to take out teacher recommendations is to enable you to game the system to FCPS liking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is in class of 2025 (first under new system) Says there are definitely kids at TJ in their class who are struggling academically a great deal. Attributes some of that to not putting in the effort. Other classmates try and work hard but still are struggling. They are repeating math classes (like taking math 4 again in second semester because didn’t do well enough first semester to progress to math 5). I don’t think that happened much, if at all, for classes admitted under the old system. Child believes there are more than a handful of kids that would not have gotten in under the old system. It is one thing if the kids admitted under the new system at historically underrepresented schools can thrive and are thriving at TJ. But it is very concerning and problematic when there are a lot more kids now struggling and find TJ extremely challenging. Hate to say it. But they probably should not be at TJ.

I strongly believe that those kids from underrepresented schools who are able to prevail will likely be more successful in life. Is it worth to sacrifice some more qualified kids who lost their opportunities due to the admission process change? I am not sure. I wish TJ can share some honest data about those kids so we can have an objective evaluation on that. Overall I still believe that the solution should be on making advanced resources more available to all the middle schools. It’s a shame that the VA attorney general attacked the special tutoring program for URMs. The solution should be such programs for all middle schools and a fair merit based admission process. I don’t think the Asian families really mind this special programs for URM groups as long as a fair merit based admission process is in place.

A lot of this centers on what is fair and merit-based. The old system was easily gamed. The new one is less able to identify top students because things like grade inflation make that difficult.

To me, this is why teacher recommendations are the answer. If you combine a really solid teacher rec system that is designed to compare students to one another with the 1.5% allocation and an actual holistic evaluation system (meaning scrapping the points system and, therefore, the "experience factors"), you'd get at both merit AND diversity.

+1

Taking out teacher recommendations is by far the biggest mistake. If you think the test is being gamed, there is no need to take out teacher recommendations.

The only reason to take out teacher recommendations is to enable you to game the system to FCPS liking.

Peer-reviewed studies have shown teacher recs were inconsistent and biased, especially against URMs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is in class of 2025 (first under new system) Says there are definitely kids at TJ in their class who are struggling academically a great deal. Attributes some of that to not putting in the effort. Other classmates try and work hard but still are struggling. They are repeating math classes (like taking math 4 again in second semester because didn’t do well enough first semester to progress to math 5). I don’t think that happened much, if at all, for classes admitted under the old system. Child believes there are more than a handful of kids that would not have gotten in under the old system. It is one thing if the kids admitted under the new system at historically underrepresented schools can thrive and are thriving at TJ. But it is very concerning and problematic when there are a lot more kids now struggling and find TJ extremely challenging. Hate to say it. But they probably should not be at TJ.

I strongly believe that those kids from underrepresented schools who are able to prevail will likely be more successful in life. Is it worth to sacrifice some more qualified kids who lost their opportunities due to the admission process change? I am not sure. I wish TJ can share some honest data about those kids so we can have an objective evaluation on that. Overall I still believe that the solution should be on making advanced resources more available to all the middle schools. It’s a shame that the VA attorney general attacked the special tutoring program for URMs. The solution should be such programs for all middle schools and a fair merit based admission process. I don’t think the Asian families really mind this special programs for URM groups as long as a fair merit based admission process is in place.

A lot of this centers on what is fair and merit-based. The old system was easily gamed. The new one is less able to identify top students because things like grade inflation make that difficult.

To me, this is why teacher recommendations are the answer. If you combine a really solid teacher rec system that is designed to compare students to one another with the 1.5% allocation and an actual holistic evaluation system (meaning scrapping the points system and, therefore, the "experience factors"), you'd get at both merit AND diversity.

+1

Taking out teacher recommendations is by far the biggest mistake. If you think the test is being gamed, there is no need to take out teacher recommendations.

The only reason to take out teacher recommendations is to enable you to game the system to FCPS liking.

Peer-reviewed studies have shown teacher recs were inconsistent and biased, especially against URMs.

It’s not too difficult to design a recommendation form that would both correct for and expose those biases. The key is not to leave it open-ended, as that provides an advantage to students with teachers who are skilled and experienced at writing recommendation letters.

A trained admissions reader can fairly easily suss out these biases when you have a high volume of recommendations from the same teacher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is in class of 2025 (first under new system) Says there are definitely kids at TJ in their class who are struggling academically a great deal. Attributes some of that to not putting in the effort. Other classmates try and work hard but still are struggling. They are repeating math classes (like taking math 4 again in second semester because didn’t do well enough first semester to progress to math 5). I don’t think that happened much, if at all, for classes admitted under the old system. Child believes there are more than a handful of kids that would not have gotten in under the old system. It is one thing if the kids admitted under the new system at historically underrepresented schools can thrive and are thriving at TJ. But it is very concerning and problematic when there are a lot more kids now struggling and find TJ extremely challenging. Hate to say it. But they probably should not be at TJ.

DC was in the class of 2022 and said it did happen even more in the old system. A lot of the kids who only got in because of prep and test buying weren't up for the rigor. They were average kids who were barely able to parrot back the answers they had memorized. At least now TJ gets the very best students from each school.

No. It wouldn't surprise me if some kids who were not good were getting in before, but the very best students are not getting in now. Instead they accepted kids worse than the preppers accepted under the old system.

A lot of the very best kids didn't get in before either. Indeed, a lot of them didn't even apply to TJ because no one ever went from their middle school.

That is irrelevant. Looking at the schools that did send students, and do so now, the best kids are not getting in from many of those schools, and at those same schools the best kids were getting in before.
TJ is doing a poor job of selecting the top kids from within a school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is in class of 2025 (first under new system) Says there are definitely kids at TJ in their class who are struggling academically a great deal. Attributes some of that to not putting in the effort. Other classmates try and work hard but still are struggling. They are repeating math classes (like taking math 4 again in second semester because didn’t do well enough first semester to progress to math 5). I don’t think that happened much, if at all, for classes admitted under the old system. Child believes there are more than a handful of kids that would not have gotten in under the old system. It is one thing if the kids admitted under the new system at historically underrepresented schools can thrive and are thriving at TJ. But it is very concerning and problematic when there are a lot more kids now struggling and find TJ extremely challenging. Hate to say it. But they probably should not be at TJ.

I strongly believe that those kids from underrepresented schools who are able to prevail will likely be more successful in life. Is it worth to sacrifice some more qualified kids who lost their opportunities due to the admission process change? I am not sure. I wish TJ can share some honest data about those kids so we can have an objective evaluation on that. Overall I still believe that the solution should be on making advanced resources more available to all the middle schools. It’s a shame that the VA attorney general attacked the special tutoring program for URMs. The solution should be such programs for all middle schools and a fair merit based admission process. I don’t think the Asian families really mind this special programs for URM groups as long as a fair merit based admission process is in place.

A lot of this centers on what is fair and merit-based. The old system was easily gamed. The new one is less able to identify top students because things like grade inflation make that difficult.

To me, this is why teacher recommendations are the answer. If you combine a really solid teacher rec system that is designed to compare students to one another with the 1.5% allocation and an actual holistic evaluation system (meaning scrapping the points system and, therefore, the "experience factors"), you'd get at both merit AND diversity.

+1

Taking out teacher recommendations is by far the biggest mistake. If you think the test is being gamed, there is no need to take out teacher recommendations.

The only reason to take out teacher recommendations is to enable you to game the system to FCPS liking.

Peer-reviewed studies have shown teacher recs were inconsistent and biased, especially against URMs.

It’s not too difficult to design a recommendation form that would both correct for and expose those biases. The key is not to leave it open-ended, as that provides an advantage to students with teachers who are skilled and experienced at writing recommendation letters.

A trained admissions reader can fairly easily suss out these biases when you have a high volume of recommendations from the same teacher.[/quote

I think they have been trained to downgrade certain applications.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is in class of 2025 (first under new system) Says there are definitely kids at TJ in their class who are struggling academically a great deal. Attributes some of that to not putting in the effort. Other classmates try and work hard but still are struggling. They are repeating math classes (like taking math 4 again in second semester because didn’t do well enough first semester to progress to math 5). I don’t think that happened much, if at all, for classes admitted under the old system. Child believes there are more than a handful of kids that would not have gotten in under the old system. It is one thing if the kids admitted under the new system at historically underrepresented schools can thrive and are thriving at TJ. But it is very concerning and problematic when there are a lot more kids now struggling and find TJ extremely challenging. Hate to say it. But they probably should not be at TJ.

DC was in the class of 2022 and said it did happen even more in the old system. A lot of the kids who only got in because of prep and test buying weren't up for the rigor. They were average kids who were barely able to parrot back the answers they had memorized. At least now TJ gets the very best students from each school.

No. It wouldn't surprise me if some kids who were not good were getting in before, but the very best students are not getting in now. Instead they accepted kids worse than the preppers accepted under the old system.

A lot of the very best kids didn't get in before either. Indeed, a lot of them didn't even apply to TJ because no one ever went from their middle school.

That is irrelevant. Looking at the schools that did send students, and do so now, the best kids are not getting in from many of those schools, and at those same schools the best kids were getting in before.
TJ is doing a poor job of selecting the top kids from within a school.

Maybe they just have a different definition or criteria of what constitutes the "best kids."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is in class of 2025 (first under new system) Says there are definitely kids at TJ in their class who are struggling academically a great deal. Attributes some of that to not putting in the effort. Other classmates try and work hard but still are struggling. They are repeating math classes (like taking math 4 again in second semester because didn’t do well enough first semester to progress to math 5). I don’t think that happened much, if at all, for classes admitted under the old system. Child believes there are more than a handful of kids that would not have gotten in under the old system. It is one thing if the kids admitted under the new system at historically underrepresented schools can thrive and are thriving at TJ. But it is very concerning and problematic when there are a lot more kids now struggling and find TJ extremely challenging. Hate to say it. But they probably should not be at TJ.

DC was in the class of 2022 and said it did happen even more in the old system. A lot of the kids who only got in because of prep and test buying weren't up for the rigor. They were average kids who were barely able to parrot back the answers they had memorized. At least now TJ gets the very best students from each school.

This is all crap and you know it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is in class of 2025 (first under new system) Says there are definitely kids at TJ in their class who are struggling academically a great deal. Attributes some of that to not putting in the effort. Other classmates try and work hard but still are struggling. They are repeating math classes (like taking math 4 again in second semester because didn’t do well enough first semester to progress to math 5). I don’t think that happened much, if at all, for classes admitted under the old system. Child believes there are more than a handful of kids that would not have gotten in under the old system. It is one thing if the kids admitted under the new system at historically underrepresented schools can thrive and are thriving at TJ. But it is very concerning and problematic when there are a lot more kids now struggling and find TJ extremely challenging. Hate to say it. But they probably should not be at TJ.

DC was in the class of 2022 and said it did happen even more in the old system. A lot of the kids who only got in because of prep and test buying weren't up for the rigor. They were average kids who were barely able to parrot back the answers they had memorized. At least now TJ gets the very best students from each school.

No. It wouldn't surprise me if some kids who were not good were getting in before, but the very best students are not getting in now. Instead they accepted kids worse than the preppers accepted under the old system.

A lot of the very best kids didn't get in before either. Indeed, a lot of them didn't even apply to TJ because no one ever went from their middle school.

That is irrelevant. Looking at the schools that did send students, and do so now, the best kids are not getting in from many of those schools, and at those same schools the best kids were getting in before.
TJ is doing a poor job of selecting the top kids from within a school.

Maybe they just have a different definition or criteria of what constitutes the "best kids."

Obviously. And they are wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is in class of 2025 (first under new system) Says there are definitely kids at TJ in their class who are struggling academically a great deal. Attributes some of that to not putting in the effort. Other classmates try and work hard but still are struggling. They are repeating math classes (like taking math 4 again in second semester because didn’t do well enough first semester to progress to math 5). I don’t think that happened much, if at all, for classes admitted under the old system. Child believes there are more than a handful of kids that would not have gotten in under the old system. It is one thing if the kids admitted under the new system at historically underrepresented schools can thrive and are thriving at TJ. But it is very concerning and problematic when there are a lot more kids now struggling and find TJ extremely challenging. Hate to say it. But they probably should not be at TJ.

I strongly believe that those kids from underrepresented schools who are able to prevail will likely be more successful in life. Is it worth to sacrifice some more qualified kids who lost their opportunities due to the admission process change? I am not sure. I wish TJ can share some honest data about those kids so we can have an objective evaluation on that. Overall I still believe that the solution should be on making advanced resources more available to all the middle schools. It’s a shame that the VA attorney general attacked the special tutoring program for URMs. The solution should be such programs for all middle schools and a fair merit based admission process. I don’t think the Asian families really mind this special programs for URM groups as long as a fair merit based admission process is in place.

A lot of this centers on what is fair and merit-based. The old system was easily gamed. The new one is less able to identify top students because things like grade inflation make that difficult.

To me, this is why teacher recommendations are the answer. If you combine a really solid teacher rec system that is designed to compare students to one another with the 1.5% allocation and an actual holistic evaluation system (meaning scrapping the points system and, therefore, the "experience factors"), you'd get at both merit AND diversity.

+1

Taking out teacher recommendations is by far the biggest mistake. If you think the test is being gamed, there is no need to take out teacher recommendations.

The only reason to take out teacher recommendations is to enable you to game the system to FCPS liking.

+1
And sure there are some issues as another PP noted with recc’s but there are clearly worse issues without having them now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is in class of 2025 (first under new system) Says there are definitely kids at TJ in their class who are struggling academically a great deal. Attributes some of that to not putting in the effort. Other classmates try and work hard but still are struggling. They are repeating math classes (like taking math 4 again in second semester because didn’t do well enough first semester to progress to math 5). I don’t think that happened much, if at all, for classes admitted under the old system. Child believes there are more than a handful of kids that would not have gotten in under the old system. It is one thing if the kids admitted under the new system at historically underrepresented schools can thrive and are thriving at TJ. But it is very concerning and problematic when there are a lot more kids now struggling and find TJ extremely challenging. Hate to say it. But they probably should not be at TJ.

DC was in the class of 2022 and said it did happen even more in the old system. A lot of the kids who only got in because of prep and test buying weren't up for the rigor. They were average kids who were barely able to parrot back the answers they had memorized. At least now TJ gets the very best students from each school.

No. It wouldn't surprise me if some kids who were not good were getting in before, but the very best students are not getting in now. Instead they accepted kids worse than the preppers accepted under the old system.

A lot of the very best kids didn't get in before either. Indeed, a lot of them didn't even apply to TJ because no one ever went from their middle school.

That is irrelevant. Looking at the schools that did send students, and do so now, the best kids are not getting in from many of those schools, and at those same schools the best kids were getting in before.
TJ is doing a poor job of selecting the top kids from within a school.

TJ isn’t selecting any students. The school and its administration has NOTHING to do with admissions. They have no role in designing, evaluating, or implementing the admissions process - their only job is to support the students who are selected by it, just as was the case before the updates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is in class of 2025 (first under new system) Says there are definitely kids at TJ in their class who are struggling academically a great deal. Attributes some of that to not putting in the effort. Other classmates try and work hard but still are struggling. They are repeating math classes (like taking math 4 again in second semester because didn’t do well enough first semester to progress to math 5). I don’t think that happened much, if at all, for classes admitted under the old system. Child believes there are more than a handful of kids that would not have gotten in under the old system. It is one thing if the kids admitted under the new system at historically underrepresented schools can thrive and are thriving at TJ. But it is very concerning and problematic when there are a lot more kids now struggling and find TJ extremely challenging. Hate to say it. But they probably should not be at TJ.

DC was in the class of 2022 and said it did happen even more in the old system. A lot of the kids who only got in because of prep and test buying weren't up for the rigor. They were average kids who were barely able to parrot back the answers they had memorized. At least now TJ gets the very best students from each school.

No. It wouldn't surprise me if some kids who were not good were getting in before, but the very best students are not getting in now. Instead they accepted kids worse than the preppers accepted under the old system.

So admission is done by the central office? Does middle schools have a say?

A lot of the very best kids didn't get in before either. Indeed, a lot of them didn't even apply to TJ because no one ever went from their middle school.

That is irrelevant. Looking at the schools that did send students, and do so now, the best kids are not getting in from many of those schools, and at those same schools the best kids were getting in before.
TJ is doing a poor job of selecting the top kids from within a school.

TJ isn’t selecting any students. The school and its administration has NOTHING to do with admissions. They have no role in designing, evaluating, or implementing the admissions process - their only job is to support the students who are selected by it, just as was the case before the updates.

[Anonymous]

Does the Admission Office (central office) do the evaluations? Are middle schools involved in any part of the decision making?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does the Admission Office (central office) do the evaluations? Are middle schools involved in any part of the decision making?

This is my question too. Fair or unfair, the admission process should be transparent at least. Will students be notified of the score they get for essays? Is essay the only factor when identifying the top 1.5%?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does the Admission Office (central office) do the evaluations? Are middle schools involved in any part of the decision making?

Yes to the Admissions Office, no to the middle schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does the Admission Office (central office) do the evaluations? Are middle schools involved in any part of the decision making?

This is my question too. Fair or unfair, the admission process should be transparent at least. Will students be notified of the score they get for essays? Is essay the only factor when identifying the top 1.5%?

This is an honest question - what would be the value of transparency in the admissions process?

To me, there would be two effects:

1) an easier access point for parents to challenge when their kids aren't selected, which serves no one because you can't very well remove a kid you've already selected to make room for another;

2) an easier ability for parents to game the admissions process by narrowly tailoring their child's elementary and middle school years to serve the end of getting into TJ, which is also a terrible idea because it places a needless burden on kids and makes their admissions outcomes more dependent on parent priorities than student ability.

If anything, the process needs to be LESS transparent for the health of Northern Virginia's kids.