TJ Decisions are Out

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So much bickering over whether the right kids are getting in and how the kids who do get in were toxic, are unqualified, etc. TJ has really outlived its utility.

Those two statements have nothing to do with each other. The bickering is generated entirely by a group of people who are aligned with interests that seek to devalue public education, so to claim that the bickering is a justification to close it serves their purposes neatly.

As far as TJ outliving its utility, their kids are still doing exceptional things because of the resources that they have to work with. Do a modicum of research and you'll see for yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don't understand why in the traditional feeder schools at a minimum geometry should be required in 8th grade: then you at least are looking at the top math students from those schools.

If it needs to be algebra 1 in other schools that is fine, but just fixing the math requirement at some schools will help ensure the right kids are picked. Or give extra points for higher math or something.

Why are you assuming that the students who are the most advanced in math are necessarily the best? The two aren't one and the same.

Sorry, but I'm assuming that any Carson or Longfellow kid taking Algebra I in 8th just isn't very bright at math and isn't remarkable in any way. For the most part, these kids are privileged, have full access to everything they would need to be successful, and yet still weren't good enough or motivated enough. I don't think Geometry should be a hard requirement, but math level should be considered holistically at the high SES schools, and the kids being admitted with 8th grade Algebra from high SES schools should need to demonstrate that they are remarkable in some way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don't understand why in the traditional feeder schools at a minimum geometry should be required in 8th grade: then you at least are looking at the top math students from those schools.

If it needs to be algebra 1 in other schools that is fine, but just fixing the math requirement at some schools will help ensure the right kids are picked. Or give extra points for higher math or something.

Why are you assuming that the students who are the most advanced in math are necessarily the best? The two aren't one and the same.

Sorry, but I'm assuming that any Carson or Longfellow kid taking Algebra I in 8th just isn't very bright at math and isn't remarkable in any way. For the most part, these kids are privileged, have full access to everything they would need to be successful, and yet still weren't good enough or motivated enough. I don't think Geometry should be a hard requirement, but math level should be considered holistically at the high SES schools, and the kids being admitted with 8th grade Algebra from high SES schools should need to demonstrate that they are remarkable in some way.

I see what you're getting at, but Carson's catchment area is pretty sizeable and includes a fair amount of territory that would not be considered high SES by FCPS standards.

Perhaps they are indeed demonstrating that they're remarkable but not in a way that is visible to parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But it wouldn't bc it would have a ton of algebra 1 kids from the other middle schools

I think you'd find that at most FCPS middle schools, kids in 7th grade algebra mirror the previous admissions profiles before the change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don't understand why in the traditional feeder schools at a minimum geometry should be required in 8th grade: then you at least are looking at the top math students from those schools.

If it needs to be algebra 1 in other schools that is fine, but just fixing the math requirement at some schools will help ensure the right kids are picked. Or give extra points for higher math or something.

Why are you assuming that the students who are the most advanced in math are necessarily the best? The two aren't one and the same.

Sorry, but I'm assuming that any Carson or Longfellow kid taking Algebra I in 8th just isn't very bright at math and isn't remarkable in any way. For the most part, these kids are privileged, have full access to everything they would need to be successful, and yet still weren't good enough or motivated enough. I don't think Geometry should be a hard requirement, but math level should be considered holistically at the high SES schools, and the kids being admitted with 8th grade Algebra from high SES schools should need to demonstrate that they are remarkable in some way.

I see what you're getting at, but Carson's catchment area is pretty sizeable and includes a fair amount of territory that would not be considered high SES by FCPS standards.

Perhaps they are indeed demonstrating that they're remarkable but not in a way that is visible to parents.

For every Carson kid who maybe is not high SES and somehow lacked access to 7th grade Algebra, there are another 20+ mediocre kids who despite their tutors and IAAT prep, still failed to meet the benchmark. Letting a bunch of barely above average privileged kids into TJ on the off chance that the process will find a diamond in the rough is absurd. At the very least, the math level should be considered, and the Carson kids admitted with only Algebra I should need some pretty exceptional essays or the FARMS/ESOL bonus points to earn their spots over the kids who are much more advanced in math. Teacher recommendations would also help with this issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don't understand why in the traditional feeder schools at a minimum geometry should be required in 8th grade: then you at least are looking at the top math students from those schools.

If it needs to be algebra 1 in other schools that is fine, but just fixing the math requirement at some schools will help ensure the right kids are picked. Or give extra points for higher math or something.

Why are you assuming that the students who are the most advanced in math are necessarily the best? The two aren't one and the same.

Sorry, but I'm assuming that any Carson or Longfellow kid taking Algebra I in 8th just isn't very bright at math and isn't remarkable in any way. For the most part, these kids are privileged, have full access to everything they would need to be successful, and yet still weren't good enough or motivated enough. I don't think Geometry should be a hard requirement, but math level should be considered holistically at the high SES schools, and the kids being admitted with 8th grade Algebra from high SES schools should need to demonstrate that they are remarkable in some way.

I see what you're getting at, but Carson's catchment area is pretty sizeable and includes a fair amount of territory that would not be considered high SES by FCPS standards.

Perhaps they are indeed demonstrating that they're remarkable but not in a way that is visible to parents.

For every Carson kid who maybe is not high SES and somehow lacked access to 7th grade Algebra, there are another 20+ mediocre kids who despite their tutors and IAAT prep, still failed to meet the benchmark. Letting a bunch of barely above average privileged kids into TJ on the off chance that the process will find a diamond in the rough is absurd. At the very least, the math level should be considered, and the Carson kids admitted with only Algebra I should need some pretty exceptional essays or the FARMS/ESOL bonus points to earn their spots over the kids who are much more advanced in math. Teacher recommendations would also help with this issue.

Thier essays are exceptional. That why the experts identified them as the top 1.5%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don't understand why in the traditional feeder schools at a minimum geometry should be required in 8th grade: then you at least are looking at the top math students from those schools.

If it needs to be algebra 1 in other schools that is fine, but just fixing the math requirement at some schools will help ensure the right kids are picked. Or give extra points for higher math or something.

Why are you assuming that the students who are the most advanced in math are necessarily the best? The two aren't one and the same.

Sorry, but I'm assuming that any Carson or Longfellow kid taking Algebra I in 8th just isn't very bright at math and isn't remarkable in any way. For the most part, these kids are privileged, have full access to everything they would need to be successful, and yet still weren't good enough or motivated enough. I don't think Geometry should be a hard requirement, but math level should be considered holistically at the high SES schools, and the kids being admitted with 8th grade Algebra from high SES schools should need to demonstrate that they are remarkable in some way.

I see what you're getting at, but Carson's catchment area is pretty sizeable and includes a fair amount of territory that would not be considered high SES by FCPS standards.

Perhaps they are indeed demonstrating that they're remarkable but not in a way that is visible to parents.

For every Carson kid who maybe is not high SES and somehow lacked access to 7th grade Algebra, there are another 20+ mediocre kids who despite their tutors and IAAT prep, still failed to meet the benchmark. Letting a bunch of barely above average privileged kids into TJ on the off chance that the process will find a diamond in the rough is absurd. At the very least, the math level should be considered, and the Carson kids admitted with only Algebra I should need some pretty exceptional essays or the FARMS/ESOL bonus points to earn their spots over the kids who are much more advanced in math. Teacher recommendations would also help with this issue.

It's wild... people are behaving as though it's some sort of catastrophe that what... maybe 28% of the school is entering in the TJ equivalent of Geometry? It used to be that 70-80% of TJ entered in Geometry and the school was just fine back then.

Artificial hyper-advancement in math is not something we need to incentivize. If it happens naturally, then that's great, but it shouldn't be viewed as a leg up for getting into TJ when the advancement most often is coming as a result of parent ambition rather than student ability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don't understand why in the traditional feeder schools at a minimum geometry should be required in 8th grade: then you at least are looking at the top math students from those schools.

If it needs to be algebra 1 in other schools that is fine, but just fixing the math requirement at some schools will help ensure the right kids are picked. Or give extra points for higher math or something.

Why are you assuming that the students who are the most advanced in math are necessarily the best? The two aren't one and the same.

Sorry, but I'm assuming that any Carson or Longfellow kid taking Algebra I in 8th just isn't very bright at math and isn't remarkable in any way. For the most part, these kids are privileged, have full access to everything they would need to be successful, and yet still weren't good enough or motivated enough. I don't think Geometry should be a hard requirement, but math level should be considered holistically at the high SES schools, and the kids being admitted with 8th grade Algebra from high SES schools should need to demonstrate that they are remarkable in some way.

I see what you're getting at, but Carson's catchment area is pretty sizeable and includes a fair amount of territory that would not be considered high SES by FCPS standards.

Perhaps they are indeed demonstrating that they're remarkable but not in a way that is visible to parents.

SES is being used as a proxy for acceleration opportunities not available. The point is the opportunity was available at Carson, and still the kids are in just algebra 1 in 8th grade. Some of the middle schools I gather do not have geometry as an option in 8th grade, but Carson is not one of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is in class of 2025 (first under new system) Says there are definitely kids at TJ in their class who are struggling academically a great deal. Attributes some of that to not putting in the effort. Other classmates try and work hard but still are struggling. They are repeating math classes (like taking math 4 again in second semester because didn’t do well enough first semester to progress to math 5). I don’t think that happened much, if at all, for classes admitted under the old system. Child believes there are more than a handful of kids that would not have gotten in under the old system. It is one thing if the kids admitted under the new system at historically underrepresented schools can thrive and are thriving at TJ. But it is very concerning and problematic when there are a lot more kids now struggling and find TJ extremely challenging. Hate to say it. But they probably should not be at TJ.

DC was in the class of 2022 and said it did happen even more in the old system. A lot of the kids who only got in because of prep and test buying weren't up for the rigor. They were average kids who were barely able to parrot back the answers they had memorized. At least now TJ gets the very best students from each school.

Not only that many of those kids were so ultracompetitive that it made TJ so toxic. I think the board did a good job ensuring that selection is inclusive of all residents not just those willing to drop thousands on prep and also helped reduce the toxic behavior.

I think the selection went more in favor of those who did prep. It's easier to prep a kid for an essay than a math test.

That might be true if there wasn't 1.5% requirement, but since prep is mostly only common at the wealthier schools, it doesn't work out that way.

Of the students selected within a school, the ones who prepped might be more likely than those that did not. That might explain the selection process in our school, where I know a few of the selected went to Curie, and none of the top students who were waitlisted or rejected went to Curie.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don't understand why in the traditional feeder schools at a minimum geometry should be required in 8th grade: then you at least are looking at the top math students from those schools.

If it needs to be algebra 1 in other schools that is fine, but just fixing the math requirement at some schools will help ensure the right kids are picked. Or give extra points for higher math or something.

Why are you assuming that the students who are the most advanced in math are necessarily the best? The two aren't one and the same.

Nevertheless the chances of someone in algebra 1 being better able to handle TJ than someone in algebra 2 is remote. Kids in geometry could be better than kids in algebra 2 with regularity, particularly with some kids taking summer geometry and barely able to handle algebra 2.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
It's wild... people are behaving as though it's some sort of catastrophe that what... maybe 28% of the school is entering in the TJ equivalent of Geometry? It used to be that 70-80% of TJ entered in Geometry and the school was just fine back then.

In FCPS and LCPS, it's quite easy to qualify for Algebra in 7th, especially in a high SES school. Somewhere between 10-20% of FCPS kids take Algebra in 7th, with a much higher percentage doing so at high SES schools. Every single AAP kid I know who took Algebra in 8th simply wasn't very smart and wasn't very good at math. Many of them prepped like crazy and still failed to meet the benchmark. It is a catastrophe to accept a bunch of mediocre privileged kids who objectively aren't even among the top 20% of the FCPS population in terms of math ability into a highly selective program like TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It's wild... people are behaving as though it's some sort of catastrophe that what... maybe 28% of the school is entering in the TJ equivalent of Geometry? It used to be that 70-80% of TJ entered in Geometry and the school was just fine back then.

In FCPS and LCPS, it's quite easy to qualify for Algebra in 7th, especially in a high SES school. Somewhere between 10-20% of FCPS kids take Algebra in 7th, with a much higher percentage doing so at high SES schools. Every single AAP kid I know who took Algebra in 8th simply wasn't very smart and wasn't very good at math. Many of them prepped like crazy and still failed to meet the benchmark. It is a catastrophe to accept a bunch of mediocre privileged kids who objectively aren't even among the top 20% of the FCPS population in terms of math ability into a highly selective program like TJ.

NP. There's increasing pressure for incoming 7th graders to choose Math 7 H even when they qualify for Algebra 1 H, throughout FCPS. Maybe all the AAP kids who followed that advice are bad at math - or maybe they're just people who follow advice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is in class of 2025 (first under new system) Says there are definitely kids at TJ in their class who are struggling academically a great deal. Attributes some of that to not putting in the effort. Other classmates try and work hard but still are struggling. They are repeating math classes (like taking math 4 again in second semester because didn’t do well enough first semester to progress to math 5). I don’t think that happened much, if at all, for classes admitted under the old system. Child believes there are more than a handful of kids that would not have gotten in under the old system. It is one thing if the kids admitted under the new system at historically underrepresented schools can thrive and are thriving at TJ. But it is very concerning and problematic when there are a lot more kids now struggling and find TJ extremely challenging. Hate to say it. But they probably should not be at TJ.

DC was in the class of 2022 and said it did happen even more in the old system. A lot of the kids who only got in because of prep and test buying weren't up for the rigor. They were average kids who were barely able to parrot back the answers they had memorized. At least now TJ gets the very best students from each school.

I wonder why so many are trying to cover this up?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It's wild... people are behaving as though it's some sort of catastrophe that what... maybe 28% of the school is entering in the TJ equivalent of Geometry? It used to be that 70-80% of TJ entered in Geometry and the school was just fine back then.

In FCPS and LCPS, it's quite easy to qualify for Algebra in 7th, especially in a high SES school. Somewhere between 10-20% of FCPS kids take Algebra in 7th, with a much higher percentage doing so at high SES schools. Every single AAP kid I know who took Algebra in 8th simply wasn't very smart and wasn't very good at math. Many of them prepped like crazy and still failed to meet the benchmark. It is a catastrophe to accept a bunch of mediocre privileged kids who objectively aren't even among the top 20% of the FCPS population in terms of math ability into a highly selective program like TJ.

I’m fascinated how you know these kids so well. I know little about how smart or not the kids in 8th grade are - other than mine. Reading this post, I’d guess you are not very smart, but I don’t know you either. I’m glad for small favors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of DC's friend group I am honestly shocked at the results! All but two of the most brilliant kids were wait-pooled and some *real* surprises were offered admission. I know the process is far from perfect but this is a head scratcher...

Fel the same in my DC MS. Kids who never stood out got in in any events

Our MS is 1500 kids, half of whom are AAP. It's not easy to stand out in a place like that.

Exactly! Schools admissions based on achievement can be gamed if parents realize big fish in a small pond will stand a much better chance compared to little fish in a big pond. Play your end game carefully, parents.