2022 MSDE School Report Cards Are Out. How did your school do?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would be nice if there was a way to just get a list of all MCPS schools rather than having to look up one at a time.

Use this page: https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/SchoolsList/Index?l=15

OK, fine. Here they are

School Total Earned Points
Whitman 83.6
Churchill 82.8
Wootton 80.4
BCC 76.2
Walter Johnson 76
Richard Montgomery 70.4
Poolesville 69.7
Sherwood 68.8
Northwest 68
Clarksburg 66.9
Damascus 66.3
Quince Orchard 65.7
Rockville 65.3
Einstein 63.9
Blair 63.2
Magruder 62.1
Wheaton 61.6
Springbrook 61.6
Blake 61.1
Paint Branch 59.2
Seneca Valley 58.3
Northwood 55.8
Gaithersburg 53
Watkins Mill 52.2
Kennedy 49.2

Pretty close to the reverse of a FARMS rate-sorted list. So neither surprising nor meaningful.

+1 Almost to the exact order of lowest to highest FARMS. I mean, you could've just listed the FARMs rate and not bother looking at MSDE.

I think the FARMS rate is highly correlated with English Language Learners. There are several different metrics that take a hit because of ELLs. When this new rating system came out I was pretty disgusted, because it’s effectively useless the way it is set-up. Pull all data for ELLs into their own category for 4 years after arriving in US. Leave the main categories with only data from kids who speak English, so those comparisons are more meaningful.

But then you would know exactly how many undocumented students are in your schools being funded by MoCo taxpayers instead of their home countries. Dems cannot let you know that.

A) Not all ELLs are undocumented;

B) Every single At a Glance document for every single school in MCPS shows you the number of kids receiving ESOL services;

C) The report card does the same thing.

And no one is so simple to think that they are. But it is undeniable that MCPS has had a large and growing undocumented population for years, and that the population places a tremendous strain on resources. Don't try to negate people's concerns with simplistic arguments.

So long as there are immigrant children of any sort, MCPS will (and legally must) educate them.

Perhaps those who don't want immigrants can work to help keep other countries in better shape so there are fewer refugees of all sorts.

Not the PP but I have no issue with educating immigrants. This is a very transient area. The issue comes down to integrating classes and the whole PC version of keeping kids mixed in color, sex, and abilities. MCPS needs to let this go because no one is learning this way. The top reading groups never meet and the bottom groups meet more but not enough for them to ever catch up.

In 1st grade if there are 100 kids and 4 classes in an ES and right now MCPS has 4 classes of 25 kids each of varying levels and pulling off in groups.

Why not put the bottom 20 in one class with a teacher and a para.
Put the two middle classes with 25 kids and they share a para
Top class has 30 kids and no para

Change them for math levels in afternoon - similar levels.

I just don't understand the mixed groupings at all. The kids struggling are embarrassed and act out, don't care, or are too quiet. The kids that are smarter never meet in their groups, are always bored, can act out, and many times are used by exhausted teachers, as mini helpers to other kids struggling - embarrassing both. There is rarely ever full education going on. Just groups and busy work. I have volunteered in enough classes in ES before and after common/integrated classrooms to see that it is a failure.

I don’t think you’ve volunteered in that many classrooms if you think this is the solution. You have a way oversimplified view of children and learning. I fully believe in cohorting older students, but no, you don’t do what you’ve proposed with six year olds.

DP

What is your age limit?

MCPS does mixed ability for all ages until high school except for in Math.

Are you okay with cohorting (is that a made-up MCPS word?) 3rd graders? I am. Some third graders read very well and some don’t. As long as the groups are fluid, it’s fine.

Instead, my 3rd grader is stuck in a class where her reading group barely ever meets. The teacher is too busy working with the kids who are below level. SO MUCH wasted time.

Put yourself in the shoes of a parent whose kid of in the bottom group and as a result feels that at 7 they have already failed in life. Would you still advocate for this attach that stigmatizes kids so young?

.

It isn't the kids that do this. It is parents like you. If you really wanted to help your child you would want them in smaller environment with kids similar to him with extra teacher and para support so they can actually improve and learn and get up to the grade standards quickly.

What you want to do is throw the struggling kids in with everyone so not to stigmatize them, but yet you are stunting them. Protecting them by making them look average but keep them far below average because they aren't getting enough help. And they see kids in their class succeeding easily. They see them barely in groups, getting done their busy work in 5 minutes what takes them the entire group break to do and if not, they see the teacher ask smart Joey to help them learn the work which is so humiliating. Joey rolls his eyes because he just wants to read his book at his desk. So instead they usually just quickly get done the work, throw it in the bin and not learn anything. Teacher is too overwhelmed to look over and realize how much kid is struggling. And each year kids like this slip through the cracks over and over again, but at least they weren't stigmatized. We just teach them to expect less, work average, and get more.

I agree with this 100%

Mixing the kids helps No one and wastes so much time.

There have been so many actual studies done on this, but okay...some random DCUM poster says it wastes time,so it must be true! It really comes down to teacher preference. Teachers know how their students work together in the classroom better than anyone else and understand what works and what doesn't. It's up to them how they do small groups because they understand what unique needs their students have. There is no blanket, uniform, correct answer here..but DCUM gonna DCUM.

Teachers don’t really have a choice when there are five different reading groups in the class.

Part of the lack of morale amongst teachers is that MCPS has taken away teacher autonomy, not provided more teacher autonomy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would be nice if there was a way to just get a list of all MCPS schools rather than having to look up one at a time.

Use this page: https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/SchoolsList/Index?l=15

OK, fine. Here they are

School Total Earned Points
Whitman 83.6
Churchill 82.8
Wootton 80.4
BCC 76.2
Walter Johnson 76
Richard Montgomery 70.4
Poolesville 69.7
Sherwood 68.8
Northwest 68
Clarksburg 66.9
Damascus 66.3
Quince Orchard 65.7
Rockville 65.3
Einstein 63.9
Blair 63.2
Magruder 62.1
Wheaton 61.6
Springbrook 61.6
Blake 61.1
Paint Branch 59.2
Seneca Valley 58.3
Northwood 55.8
Gaithersburg 53
Watkins Mill 52.2
Kennedy 49.2

Pretty close to the reverse of a FARMS rate-sorted list. So neither surprising nor meaningful.

+1 Almost to the exact order of lowest to highest FARMS. I mean, you could've just listed the FARMs rate and not bother looking at MSDE.

I think the FARMS rate is highly correlated with English Language Learners. There are several different metrics that take a hit because of ELLs. When this new rating system came out I was pretty disgusted, because it’s effectively useless the way it is set-up. Pull all data for ELLs into their own category for 4 years after arriving in US. Leave the main categories with only data from kids who speak English, so those comparisons are more meaningful.

But then you would know exactly how many undocumented students are in your schools being funded by MoCo taxpayers instead of their home countries. Dems cannot let you know that.

A) Not all ELLs are undocumented;

B) Every single At a Glance document for every single school in MCPS shows you the number of kids receiving ESOL services;

C) The report card does the same thing.

And no one is so simple to think that they are. But it is undeniable that MCPS has had a large and growing undocumented population for years, and that the population places a tremendous strain on resources. Don't try to negate people's concerns with simplistic arguments.

So long as there are immigrant children of any sort, MCPS will (and legally must) educate them.

Perhaps those who don't want immigrants can work to help keep other countries in better shape so there are fewer refugees of all sorts.

Not the PP but I have no issue with educating immigrants. This is a very transient area. The issue comes down to integrating classes and the whole PC version of keeping kids mixed in color, sex, and abilities. MCPS needs to let this go because no one is learning this way. The top reading groups never meet and the bottom groups meet more but not enough for them to ever catch up.

In 1st grade if there are 100 kids and 4 classes in an ES and right now MCPS has 4 classes of 25 kids each of varying levels and pulling off in groups.

Why not put the bottom 20 in one class with a teacher and a para.
Put the two middle classes with 25 kids and they share a para
Top class has 30 kids and no para

Change them for math levels in afternoon - similar levels.

I just don't understand the mixed groupings at all. The kids struggling are embarrassed and act out, don't care, or are too quiet. The kids that are smarter never meet in their groups, are always bored, can act out, and many times are used by exhausted teachers, as mini helpers to other kids struggling - embarrassing both. There is rarely ever full education going on. Just groups and busy work. I have volunteered in enough classes in ES before and after common/integrated classrooms to see that it is a failure.

I don’t think you’ve volunteered in that many classrooms if you think this is the solution. You have a way oversimplified view of children and learning. I fully believe in cohorting older students, but no, you don’t do what you’ve proposed with six year olds.

DP

What is your age limit?

MCPS does mixed ability for all ages until high school except for in Math.

Are you okay with cohorting (is that a made-up MCPS word?) 3rd graders? I am. Some third graders read very well and some don’t. As long as the groups are fluid, it’s fine.

Instead, my 3rd grader is stuck in a class where her reading group barely ever meets. The teacher is too busy working with the kids who are below level. SO MUCH wasted time.

Put yourself in the shoes of a parent whose kid of in the bottom group and as a result feels that at 7 they have already failed in life. Would you still advocate for this attach that stigmatizes kids so young?

.

It isn't the kids that do this. It is parents like you. If you really wanted to help your child you would want them in smaller environment with kids similar to him with extra teacher and para support so they can actually improve and learn and get up to the grade standards quickly.

What you want to do is throw the struggling kids in with everyone so not to stigmatize them, but yet you are stunting them. Protecting them by making them look average but keep them far below average because they aren't getting enough help. And they see kids in their class succeeding easily. They see them barely in groups, getting done their busy work in 5 minutes what takes them the entire group break to do and if not, they see the teacher ask smart Joey to help them learn the work which is so humiliating. Joey rolls his eyes because he just wants to read his book at his desk. So instead they usually just quickly get done the work, throw it in the bin and not learn anything. Teacher is too overwhelmed to look over and realize how much kid is struggling. And each year kids like this slip through the cracks over and over again, but at least they weren't stigmatized. We just teach them to expect less, work average, and get more.

I agree with this 100%

Mixing the kids helps No one and wastes so much time.

There have been so many actual studies done on this, but okay...some random DCUM poster says it wastes time,so it must be true! It really comes down to teacher preference. Teachers know how their students work together in the classroom better than anyone else and understand what works and what doesn't. It's up to them how they do small groups because they understand what unique needs their students have. There is no blanket, uniform, correct answer here..but DCUM gonna DCUM.

Teachers don’t really have a choice when there are five different reading groups in the class.

Part of the lack of morale amongst teachers is that MCPS has taken away teacher autonomy, not provided more teacher autonomy.

It shouldn't be hard for school administration to come up with class assignments that limit the number of groups per class to fewer than 5. Especially since this would allow a teacher to help all their students not just the ones who are struggling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:BCC is not a W. If you’re referring to the wealthier mcps clusters, then you would say “W schools and BCC,” or something like that.

You figured out what the W really stands for! Not the name on the school or Wheaton and Watkins Mill would be Ws.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BCC is not a W. If you’re referring to the wealthier mcps clusters, then you would say “W schools and BCC,” or something like that.

You figured out what the W really stands for! Not the name on the school or Wheaton and Watkins Mill would be Ws.

People always said W was for wealth and white. I don't honestly know but that sounds about right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would be nice if there was a way to just get a list of all MCPS schools rather than having to look up one at a time.

Use this page: https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/SchoolsList/Index?l=15

OK, fine. Here they are

School Total Earned Points
Whitman 83.6
Churchill 82.8
Wootton 80.4
BCC 76.2
Walter Johnson 76
Richard Montgomery 70.4
Poolesville 69.7
Sherwood 68.8
Northwest 68
Clarksburg 66.9
Damascus 66.3
Quince Orchard 65.7
Rockville 65.3
Einstein 63.9
Blair 63.2
Magruder 62.1
Wheaton 61.6
Springbrook 61.6
Blake 61.1
Paint Branch 59.2
Seneca Valley 58.3
Northwood 55.8
Gaithersburg 53
Watkins Mill 52.2
Kennedy 49.2

Pretty close to the reverse of a FARMS rate-sorted list. So neither surprising nor meaningful.

+1 Almost to the exact order of lowest to highest FARMS. I mean, you could've just listed the FARMs rate and not bother looking at MSDE.

I think the FARMS rate is highly correlated with English Language Learners. There are several different metrics that take a hit because of ELLs. When this new rating system came out I was pretty disgusted, because it’s effectively useless the way it is set-up. Pull all data for ELLs into their own category for 4 years after arriving in US. Leave the main categories with only data from kids who speak English, so those comparisons are more meaningful.

But then you would know exactly how many undocumented students are in your schools being funded by MoCo taxpayers instead of their home countries. Dems cannot let you know that.

A) Not all ELLs are undocumented;

B) Every single At a Glance document for every single school in MCPS shows you the number of kids receiving ESOL services;

C) The report card does the same thing.

And no one is so simple to think that they are. But it is undeniable that MCPS has had a large and growing undocumented population for years, and that the population places a tremendous strain on resources. Don't try to negate people's concerns with simplistic arguments.

So long as there are immigrant children of any sort, MCPS will (and legally must) educate them.

Perhaps those who don't want immigrants can work to help keep other countries in better shape so there are fewer refugees of all sorts.

Not the PP but I have no issue with educating immigrants. This is a very transient area. The issue comes down to integrating classes and the whole PC version of keeping kids mixed in color, sex, and abilities. MCPS needs to let this go because no one is learning this way. The top reading groups never meet and the bottom groups meet more but not enough for them to ever catch up.

In 1st grade if there are 100 kids and 4 classes in an ES and right now MCPS has 4 classes of 25 kids each of varying levels and pulling off in groups.

Why not put the bottom 20 in one class with a teacher and a para.
Put the two middle classes with 25 kids and they share a para
Top class has 30 kids and no para

Change them for math levels in afternoon - similar levels.

I just don't understand the mixed groupings at all. The kids struggling are embarrassed and act out, don't care, or are too quiet. The kids that are smarter never meet in their groups, are always bored, can act out, and many times are used by exhausted teachers, as mini helpers to other kids struggling - embarrassing both. There is rarely ever full education going on. Just groups and busy work. I have volunteered in enough classes in ES before and after common/integrated classrooms to see that it is a failure.

I don’t think you’ve volunteered in that many classrooms if you think this is the solution. You have a way oversimplified view of children and learning. I fully believe in cohorting older students, but no, you don’t do what you’ve proposed with six year olds.

DP

What is your age limit?

MCPS does mixed ability for all ages until high school except for in Math.

Are you okay with cohorting (is that a made-up MCPS word?) 3rd graders? I am. Some third graders read very well and some don’t. As long as the groups are fluid, it’s fine.

Instead, my 3rd grader is stuck in a class where her reading group barely ever meets. The teacher is too busy working with the kids who are below level. SO MUCH wasted time.

Put yourself in the shoes of a parent whose kid of in the bottom group and as a result feels that at 7 they have already failed in life. Would you still advocate for this attach that stigmatizes kids so young?

.

It isn't the kids that do this. It is parents like you. If you really wanted to help your child you would want them in smaller environment with kids similar to him with extra teacher and para support so they can actually improve and learn and get up to the grade standards quickly.

What you want to do is throw the struggling kids in with everyone so not to stigmatize them, but yet you are stunting them. Protecting them by making them look average but keep them far below average because they aren't getting enough help. And they see kids in their class succeeding easily. They see them barely in groups, getting done their busy work in 5 minutes what takes them the entire group break to do and if not, they see the teacher ask smart Joey to help them learn the work which is so humiliating. Joey rolls his eyes because he just wants to read his book at his desk. So instead they usually just quickly get done the work, throw it in the bin and not learn anything. Teacher is too overwhelmed to look over and realize how much kid is struggling. And each year kids like this slip through the cracks over and over again, but at least they weren't stigmatized. We just teach them to expect less, work average, and get more.

I agree with this 100%

Mixing the kids helps No one and wastes so much time.

There have been so many actual studies done on this, but okay...some random DCUM poster says it wastes time,so it must be true! It really comes down to teacher preference. Teachers know how their students work together in the classroom better than anyone else and understand what works and what doesn't. It's up to them how they do small groups because they understand what unique needs their students have. There is no blanket, uniform, correct answer here..but DCUM gonna DCUM.

You might have a point if not for the dismal reading test scores year after year that reflect poor teaching.

Ahh yes, it’s all the teachers fault. Parents have no responsibility for their own kids, my bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BCC is not a W. If you’re referring to the wealthier mcps clusters, then you would say “W schools and BCC,” or something like that.

You figured out what the W really stands for! Not the name on the school or Wheaton and Watkins Mill would be Ws.

People always said W was for wealth and white. I don't honestly know but that sounds about right.

Yes it stands for white and wealthy, but BCC was never included because it drew kids from Silver Spring thus it had "too many" Black and Brown kids for their liking.
Same reason Churchill and Whitman didn't consider Wootton to be part of the W because the school is located in Rockville. The mindset was W schools had to be in Chevy Chase, Bethesda and Potomac. Wootton fought hard to be included and for a while, it would not be out of ordinary for some Wootton parents to claim that the school is in Potomac.
Unfortunately that's the story of the W's

[Anonymous]

Breakdown means nothing if we do not find out how Asian Americans are doing and how the low SES folks are doing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MCPS just blasted out the link to the Maryland Department of Education School Report cards.

Here's their announcement: https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/publicinfo/community/school-year-2022-2023/Community-Message-20230310.html

They're very proud to have the number of schools in the 5 category increase, as they went from 37 #5 schools in 2019 to 53 #5 schools in 2022. But at the same time, the number of #2 schools increased from 9 to 15. Of course, all of this performance data is impacted and colored by COVID, so it's important to look at those metrics from that lens.

Here's the website: https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/

How did your kids' school do?

My kid's middle school did horrendously. It scored 2. It's so depressing. We got reassigned to this middle school during a recent boundary study and I can see why so many people didn't want to be moved there.

[Anonymous]

Worthless report because they have completely removed the data of any racial groups. Where is the real data?

Achievement gap has been bridged though it will make us wonder later why some kids will go to college and others will do carjacking, sell drugs and sex trafficking.

https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/ReportCards/ReportCardSchool/1/M/1/15/0345/2022

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You forgot the BCC inside the Ws/

I was told B-CC is NOT a W school so I didn't want to get admonished for making that mistake.

BCC isn’t a W school!

Correct! I don't see a W anywhere in the name: Bethesda-Chevy Chase.

Yeah, it's a W. Just as some schools with a W aren't (Watkins Mill, Wheaton), B-CC is a W.

BCC was never one of the W schools. Sorry.

Stop trying to make fetch happen.

Signed,

Lifelong MoCo resident

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You forgot the BCC inside the Ws/

I was told B-CC is NOT a W school so I didn't want to get admonished for making that mistake.

BCC isn’t a W school!

Correct! I don't see a W anywhere in the name: Bethesda-Chevy Chase.

Yeah, it's a W. Just as some schools with a W aren't (Watkins Mill, Wheaton), B-CC is a W.

BCC was never one of the W schools. Sorry.

Stop trying to make fetch happen.

Signed,

Lifelong MoCo resident

Long ago many considered BCC superior to the W's. In fact, in the 70s TIME magazine said BCC was the best HS in the US.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would be nice if there was a way to just get a list of all MCPS schools rather than having to look up one at a time.

Use this page: https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/SchoolsList/Index?l=15

OK, fine. Here they are

School Total Earned Points
Whitman 83.6
Churchill 82.8
Wootton 80.4
BCC 76.2
Walter Johnson 76
Richard Montgomery 70.4
Poolesville 69.7
Sherwood 68.8
Northwest 68
Clarksburg 66.9
Damascus 66.3
Quince Orchard 65.7
Rockville 65.3
Einstein 63.9
Blair 63.2
Magruder 62.1
Wheaton 61.6
Springbrook 61.6
Blake 61.1
Paint Branch 59.2
Seneca Valley 58.3
Northwood 55.8
Gaithersburg 53
Watkins Mill 52.2
Kennedy 49.2

Pretty close to the reverse of a FARMS rate-sorted list. So neither surprising nor meaningful.

+1 Almost to the exact order of lowest to highest FARMS. I mean, you could've just listed the FARMs rate and not bother looking at MSDE.

I think the FARMS rate is highly correlated with English Language Learners. There are several different metrics that take a hit because of ELLs. When this new rating system came out I was pretty disgusted, because it’s effectively useless the way it is set-up. Pull all data for ELLs into their own category for 4 years after arriving in US. Leave the main categories with only data from kids who speak English, so those comparisons are more meaningful.

But then you would know exactly how many undocumented students are in your schools being funded by MoCo taxpayers instead of their home countries. Dems cannot let you know that.

A) Not all ELLs are undocumented;

B) Every single At a Glance document for every single school in MCPS shows you the number of kids receiving ESOL services;

C) The report card does the same thing.

And no one is so simple to think that they are. But it is undeniable that MCPS has had a large and growing undocumented population for years, and that the population places a tremendous strain on resources. Don't try to negate people's concerns with simplistic arguments.

So long as there are immigrant children of any sort, MCPS will (and legally must) educate them.

Perhaps those who don't want immigrants can work to help keep other countries in better shape so there are fewer refugees of all sorts.

Not the PP but I have no issue with educating immigrants. This is a very transient area. The issue comes down to integrating classes and the whole PC version of keeping kids mixed in color, sex, and abilities. MCPS needs to let this go because no one is learning this way. The top reading groups never meet and the bottom groups meet more but not enough for them to ever catch up.

In 1st grade if there are 100 kids and 4 classes in an ES and right now MCPS has 4 classes of 25 kids each of varying levels and pulling off in groups.

Why not put the bottom 20 in one class with a teacher and a para.
Put the two middle classes with 25 kids and they share a para
Top class has 30 kids and no para

Change them for math levels in afternoon - similar levels.

I just don't understand the mixed groupings at all. The kids struggling are embarrassed and act out, don't care, or are too quiet. The kids that are smarter never meet in their groups, are always bored, can act out, and many times are used by exhausted teachers, as mini helpers to other kids struggling - embarrassing both. There is rarely ever full education going on. Just groups and busy work. I have volunteered in enough classes in ES before and after common/integrated classrooms to see that it is a failure.

I don’t think you’ve volunteered in that many classrooms if you think this is the solution. You have a way oversimplified view of children and learning. I fully believe in cohorting older students, but no, you don’t do what you’ve proposed with six year olds.

DP

What is your age limit?

MCPS does mixed ability for all ages until high school except for in Math.

Are you okay with cohorting (is that a made-up MCPS word?) 3rd graders? I am. Some third graders read very well and some don’t. As long as the groups are fluid, it’s fine.

Instead, my 3rd grader is stuck in a class where her reading group barely ever meets. The teacher is too busy working with the kids who are below level. SO MUCH wasted time.

Put yourself in the shoes of a parent whose kid of in the bottom group and as a result feels that at 7 they have already failed in life. Would you still advocate for this attach that stigmatizes kids so young?

You know what is stigmatizing? Throwing the 7 and 8 year olds who can barely read and write into the same classes with kid who are above grade level. I volunteer in my kid’s classes often and the kids are ALWAYS comparing themselves to others. About everything.

These kids need extra help and support. Put them in a class with fewer kids and an extra para. Don’t just throw them in with the higher-achieving kids and expect them to learn by osmosis.

The opposite happens. They compare themselves to the kids in the top reading group and figure they can never do that. And they partially give up, and just okay games on the Chromebook.

No, you are wrong. You mixed ability classes are not useful at all, for any kids.

I can assure you that I have more experience of this than you do. Not least because my children are done with elementary, but also because I have more experience of different educational models than you do. It absolutely stigmatizes kids if you relegate them to “the bottom group” at the age of 6. I also say this as a parent of two kids who excel academically and who would not be stigmatized under such a system. But unlike you, I have empathy, and I’ve seen what it’s done to kids who think they are “stupid” because they are in the bottom group. Or the kids who are very motivated to learn but find themselves in a lower level group full of kids with behavior problems. Having the “smart” kids separated out from the others is simply segregation for those who have the most resources - the wealthy white parents like you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would be nice if there was a way to just get a list of all MCPS schools rather than having to look up one at a time.

Use this page: https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/SchoolsList/Index?l=15

OK, fine. Here they are

School Total Earned Points
Whitman 83.6
Churchill 82.8
Wootton 80.4
BCC 76.2
Walter Johnson 76
Richard Montgomery 70.4
Poolesville 69.7
Sherwood 68.8
Northwest 68
Clarksburg 66.9
Damascus 66.3
Quince Orchard 65.7
Rockville 65.3
Einstein 63.9
Blair 63.2
Magruder 62.1
Wheaton 61.6
Springbrook 61.6
Blake 61.1
Paint Branch 59.2
Seneca Valley 58.3
Northwood 55.8
Gaithersburg 53
Watkins Mill 52.2
Kennedy 49.2

Pretty close to the reverse of a FARMS rate-sorted list. So neither surprising nor meaningful.

+1 Almost to the exact order of lowest to highest FARMS. I mean, you could've just listed the FARMs rate and not bother looking at MSDE.

I think the FARMS rate is highly correlated with English Language Learners. There are several different metrics that take a hit because of ELLs. When this new rating system came out I was pretty disgusted, because it’s effectively useless the way it is set-up. Pull all data for ELLs into their own category for 4 years after arriving in US. Leave the main categories with only data from kids who speak English, so those comparisons are more meaningful.

But then you would know exactly how many undocumented students are in your schools being funded by MoCo taxpayers instead of their home countries. Dems cannot let you know that.

A) Not all ELLs are undocumented;

B) Every single At a Glance document for every single school in MCPS shows you the number of kids receiving ESOL services;

C) The report card does the same thing.

And no one is so simple to think that they are. But it is undeniable that MCPS has had a large and growing undocumented population for years, and that the population places a tremendous strain on resources. Don't try to negate people's concerns with simplistic arguments.

So long as there are immigrant children of any sort, MCPS will (and legally must) educate them.

Perhaps those who don't want immigrants can work to help keep other countries in better shape so there are fewer refugees of all sorts.

Not the PP but I have no issue with educating immigrants. This is a very transient area. The issue comes down to integrating classes and the whole PC version of keeping kids mixed in color, sex, and abilities. MCPS needs to let this go because no one is learning this way. The top reading groups never meet and the bottom groups meet more but not enough for them to ever catch up.

In 1st grade if there are 100 kids and 4 classes in an ES and right now MCPS has 4 classes of 25 kids each of varying levels and pulling off in groups.

Why not put the bottom 20 in one class with a teacher and a para.
Put the two middle classes with 25 kids and they share a para
Top class has 30 kids and no para

Change them for math levels in afternoon - similar levels.

I just don't understand the mixed groupings at all. The kids struggling are embarrassed and act out, don't care, or are too quiet. The kids that are smarter never meet in their groups, are always bored, can act out, and many times are used by exhausted teachers, as mini helpers to other kids struggling - embarrassing both. There is rarely ever full education going on. Just groups and busy work. I have volunteered in enough classes in ES before and after common/integrated classrooms to see that it is a failure.

I don’t think you’ve volunteered in that many classrooms if you think this is the solution. You have a way oversimplified view of children and learning. I fully believe in cohorting older students, but no, you don’t do what you’ve proposed with six year olds.

DP

What is your age limit?

MCPS does mixed ability for all ages until high school except for in Math.

Are you okay with cohorting (is that a made-up MCPS word?) 3rd graders? I am. Some third graders read very well and some don’t. As long as the groups are fluid, it’s fine.

Instead, my 3rd grader is stuck in a class where her reading group barely ever meets. The teacher is too busy working with the kids who are below level. SO MUCH wasted time.

Put yourself in the shoes of a parent whose kid of in the bottom group and as a result feels that at 7 they have already failed in life. Would you still advocate for this attach that stigmatizes kids so young?

.

It isn't the kids that do this. It is parents like you. If you really wanted to help your child you would want them in smaller environment with kids similar to him with extra teacher and para support so they can actually improve and learn and get up to the grade standards quickly.

What you want to do is throw the struggling kids in with everyone so not to stigmatize them, but yet you are stunting them. Protecting them by making them look average but keep them far below average because they aren't getting enough help. And they see kids in their class succeeding easily. They see them barely in groups, getting done their busy work in 5 minutes what takes them the entire group break to do and if not, they see the teacher ask smart Joey to help them learn the work which is so humiliating. Joey rolls his eyes because he just wants to read his book at his desk. So instead they usually just quickly get done the work, throw it in the bin and not learn anything. Teacher is too overwhelmed to look over and realize how much kid is struggling. And each year kids like this slip through the cracks over and over again, but at least they weren't stigmatized. We just teach them to expect less, work average, and get more.

Do you have a child that is struggling?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You forgot the BCC inside the Ws/

I was told B-CC is NOT a W school so I didn't want to get admonished for making that mistake.

BCC isn’t a W school!

Correct! I don't see a W anywhere in the name: Bethesda-Chevy Chase.

Yeah, it's a W. Just as some schools with a W aren't (Watkins Mill, Wheaton), B-CC is a W.

BCC was never one of the W schools. Sorry.

Stop trying to make fetch happen.

Signed,

Lifelong MoCo resident

Long ago many considered BCC superior to the W's. In fact, in the 70s TIME magazine said BCC was the best HS in the US.

Well, I'm nearly 50. Lifelong MoCo resident. The BCC feeder schools have always drawn a less affluent mix of students as compared to the W schools. And they've always been insecure about not being from the upper crust of Potomac.

The reality is that the W schools were labeled decades ago and trying to pretend BCC is part of the group is just silly.

PS - I didn't go to a W school (I went to private school), and my kids don't go to a W school (they are in public school).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would be nice if there was a way to just get a list of all MCPS schools rather than having to look up one at a time.

Use this page: https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/SchoolsList/Index?l=15

OK, fine. Here they are

School Total Earned Points
Whitman 83.6
Churchill 82.8
Wootton 80.4
BCC 76.2
Walter Johnson 76
Richard Montgomery 70.4
Poolesville 69.7
Sherwood 68.8
Northwest 68
Clarksburg 66.9
Damascus 66.3
Quince Orchard 65.7
Rockville 65.3
Einstein 63.9
Blair 63.2
Magruder 62.1
Wheaton 61.6
Springbrook 61.6
Blake 61.1
Paint Branch 59.2
Seneca Valley 58.3
Northwood 55.8
Gaithersburg 53
Watkins Mill 52.2
Kennedy 49.2

Pretty close to the reverse of a FARMS rate-sorted list. So neither surprising nor meaningful.

+1 Almost to the exact order of lowest to highest FARMS. I mean, you could've just listed the FARMs rate and not bother looking at MSDE.

I think the FARMS rate is highly correlated with English Language Learners. There are several different metrics that take a hit because of ELLs. When this new rating system came out I was pretty disgusted, because it’s effectively useless the way it is set-up. Pull all data for ELLs into their own category for 4 years after arriving in US. Leave the main categories with only data from kids who speak English, so those comparisons are more meaningful.

But then you would know exactly how many undocumented students are in your schools being funded by MoCo taxpayers instead of their home countries. Dems cannot let you know that.

A) Not all ELLs are undocumented;

B) Every single At a Glance document for every single school in MCPS shows you the number of kids receiving ESOL services;

C) The report card does the same thing.

And no one is so simple to think that they are. But it is undeniable that MCPS has had a large and growing undocumented population for years, and that the population places a tremendous strain on resources. Don't try to negate people's concerns with simplistic arguments.

So long as there are immigrant children of any sort, MCPS will (and legally must) educate them.

Perhaps those who don't want immigrants can work to help keep other countries in better shape so there are fewer refugees of all sorts.

Not the PP but I have no issue with educating immigrants. This is a very transient area. The issue comes down to integrating classes and the whole PC version of keeping kids mixed in color, sex, and abilities. MCPS needs to let this go because no one is learning this way. The top reading groups never meet and the bottom groups meet more but not enough for them to ever catch up.

In 1st grade if there are 100 kids and 4 classes in an ES and right now MCPS has 4 classes of 25 kids each of varying levels and pulling off in groups.

Why not put the bottom 20 in one class with a teacher and a para.
Put the two middle classes with 25 kids and they share a para
Top class has 30 kids and no para

Change them for math levels in afternoon - similar levels.

I just don't understand the mixed groupings at all. The kids struggling are embarrassed and act out, don't care, or are too quiet. The kids that are smarter never meet in their groups, are always bored, can act out, and many times are used by exhausted teachers, as mini helpers to other kids struggling - embarrassing both. There is rarely ever full education going on. Just groups and busy work. I have volunteered in enough classes in ES before and after common/integrated classrooms to see that it is a failure.

I don’t think you’ve volunteered in that many classrooms if you think this is the solution. You have a way oversimplified view of children and learning. I fully believe in cohorting older students, but no, you don’t do what you’ve proposed with six year olds.

DP

What is your age limit?

MCPS does mixed ability for all ages until high school except for in Math.

Are you okay with cohorting (is that a made-up MCPS word?) 3rd graders? I am. Some third graders read very well and some don’t. As long as the groups are fluid, it’s fine.

Instead, my 3rd grader is stuck in a class where her reading group barely ever meets. The teacher is too busy working with the kids who are below level. SO MUCH wasted time.

Put yourself in the shoes of a parent whose kid of in the bottom group and as a result feels that at 7 they have already failed in life. Would you still advocate for this attach that stigmatizes kids so young?

You know what is stigmatizing? Throwing the 7 and 8 year olds who can barely read and write into the same classes with kid who are above grade level. I volunteer in my kid’s classes often and the kids are ALWAYS comparing themselves to others. About everything.

These kids need extra help and support. Put them in a class with fewer kids and an extra para. Don’t just throw them in with the higher-achieving kids and expect them to learn by osmosis.

The opposite happens. They compare themselves to the kids in the top reading group and figure they can never do that. And they partially give up, and just okay games on the Chromebook.

No, you are wrong. You mixed ability classes are not useful at all, for any kids.

I can assure you that I have more experience of this than you do. Not least because my children are done with elementary, but also because I have more experience of different educational models than you do. It absolutely stigmatizes kids if you relegate them to “the bottom group” at the age of 6. I also say this as a parent of two kids who excel academically and who would not be stigmatized under such a system. But unlike you, I have empathy, and I’ve seen what it’s done to kids who think they are “stupid” because they are in the bottom group. Or the kids who are very motivated to learn but find themselves in a lower level group full of kids with behavior problems. Having the “smart” kids separated out from the others is simply segregation for those who have the most resources - the wealthy white parents like you.

I'm not wealthy and I'm not white. But, go ahead with your biased assumptions. My kids attend a Title 1 ES, and we live in a cluster with a high FARMS/ESOL population.

And, there are no 6 years olds in 3rd grade, which is when some of the PPs in this thread are advocating for differentiation.