2022 MSDE School Report Cards Are Out. How did your school do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would be nice if there was a way to just get a list of all MCPS schools rather than having to look up one at a time.

Use this page: https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/SchoolsList/Index?l=15

OK, fine. Here they are

School Total Earned Points
Whitman 83.6
Churchill 82.8
Wootton 80.4
BCC 76.2
Walter Johnson 76
Richard Montgomery 70.4
Poolesville 69.7
Sherwood 68.8
Northwest 68
Clarksburg 66.9
Damascus 66.3
Quince Orchard 65.7
Rockville 65.3
Einstein 63.9
Blair 63.2
Magruder 62.1
Wheaton 61.6
Springbrook 61.6
Blake 61.1
Paint Branch 59.2
Seneca Valley 58.3
Northwood 55.8
Gaithersburg 53
Watkins Mill 52.2
Kennedy 49.2

Pretty close to the reverse of a FARMS rate-sorted list. So neither surprising nor meaningful.

+1 Almost to the exact order of lowest to highest FARMS. I mean, you could've just listed the FARMs rate and not bother looking at MSDE.

I think the FARMS rate is highly correlated with English Language Learners. There are several different metrics that take a hit because of ELLs. When this new rating system came out I was pretty disgusted, because it’s effectively useless the way it is set-up. Pull all data for ELLs into their own category for 4 years after arriving in US. Leave the main categories with only data from kids who speak English, so those comparisons are more meaningful.

But then you would know exactly how many undocumented students are in your schools being funded by MoCo taxpayers instead of their home countries. Dems cannot let you know that.

A) Not all ELLs are undocumented;

B) Every single At a Glance document for every single school in MCPS shows you the number of kids receiving ESOL services;

C) The report card does the same thing.

And no one is so simple to think that they are. But it is undeniable that MCPS has had a large and growing undocumented population for years, and that the population places a tremendous strain on resources. Don't try to negate people's concerns with simplistic arguments.

So long as there are immigrant children of any sort, MCPS will (and legally must) educate them.

Perhaps those who don't want immigrants can work to help keep other countries in better shape so there are fewer refugees of all sorts.

Not the PP but I have no issue with educating immigrants. This is a very transient area. The issue comes down to integrating classes and the whole PC version of keeping kids mixed in color, sex, and abilities. MCPS needs to let this go because no one is learning this way. The top reading groups never meet and the bottom groups meet more but not enough for them to ever catch up.

In 1st grade if there are 100 kids and 4 classes in an ES and right now MCPS has 4 classes of 25 kids each of varying levels and pulling off in groups.

Why not put the bottom 20 in one class with a teacher and a para.
Put the two middle classes with 25 kids and they share a para
Top class has 30 kids and no para

Change them for math levels in afternoon - similar levels.

I just don't understand the mixed groupings at all. The kids struggling are embarrassed and act out, don't care, or are too quiet. The kids that are smarter never meet in their groups, are always bored, can act out, and many times are used by exhausted teachers, as mini helpers to other kids struggling - embarrassing both. There is rarely ever full education going on. Just groups and busy work. I have volunteered in enough classes in ES before and after common/integrated classrooms to see that it is a failure.

I don’t think you’ve volunteered in that many classrooms if you think this is the solution. You have a way oversimplified view of children and learning. I fully believe in cohorting older students, but no, you don’t do what you’ve proposed with six year olds.

DP

What is your age limit?

MCPS does mixed ability for all ages until high school except for in Math.

Are you okay with cohorting (is that a made-up MCPS word?) 3rd graders? I am. Some third graders read very well and some don’t. As long as the groups are fluid, it’s fine.

Instead, my 3rd grader is stuck in a class where her reading group barely ever meets. The teacher is too busy working with the kids who are below level. SO MUCH wasted time.

Put yourself in the shoes of a parent whose kid of in the bottom group and as a result feels that at 7 they have already failed in life. Would you still advocate for this attach that stigmatizes kids so young?

You know what is stigmatizing? Throwing the 7 and 8 year olds who can barely read and write into the same classes with kid who are above grade level. I volunteer in my kid’s classes often and the kids are ALWAYS comparing themselves to others. About everything.

These kids need extra help and support. Put them in a class with fewer kids and an extra para. Don’t just throw them in with the higher-achieving kids and expect them to learn by osmosis.

The opposite happens. They compare themselves to the kids in the top reading group and figure they can never do that. And they partially give up, and just okay games on the Chromebook.

No, you are wrong. You mixed ability classes are not useful at all, for any kids.

Maybe your child’s teacher just isn’t super strong in differentiating. Some are definitely better than others.

I suggest you stop spending so much time judging children while you volunteer and stop gloating that your child is “ahead” and use your time to give the learners who need support the support you keep saying they don’t have. You are also hyper-fixated on “reading groups” which is not the only instruction that is going on during the day. It’s but one piece.

I agree with you that MCPS in general leaves gifted students to languish and generally does not prioritize their learning needs appropriately at all. But I do not agree with tracking them starting in 1st grade. Not because of the self esteem of the kids, but because students come into school with greatly varied educational preparation and exposure, and I think it’s appropriate to spend time helping get everyone solid on the basics before sending them down a particular path.

Furthermore, not all “advanced” kids are well behaved and vice versa, but I do think putting all the “struggling” kids together at age 6 (and making another 1st grade class extra large with 30 kids) is a recipe for difficult classrooms to manage. You must be aware that teachers are still reporting high levels of burn out/job dissatisfaction.

Ask any ES teacher if he/she would rather have a class of 26 kids with 3 reading groups, versus a class of 26 kids with 5 different reading groups.

Pushing these mixed ability classes in 2nd and 3rd grade isn't helping teachers or students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would be nice if there was a way to just get a list of all MCPS schools rather than having to look up one at a time.

Use this page: https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/SchoolsList/Index?l=15

OK, fine. Here they are

School Total Earned Points
Whitman 83.6
Churchill 82.8
Wootton 80.4
BCC 76.2
Walter Johnson 76
Richard Montgomery 70.4
Poolesville 69.7
Sherwood 68.8
Northwest 68
Clarksburg 66.9
Damascus 66.3
Quince Orchard 65.7
Rockville 65.3
Einstein 63.9
Blair 63.2
Magruder 62.1
Wheaton 61.6
Springbrook 61.6
Blake 61.1
Paint Branch 59.2
Seneca Valley 58.3
Northwood 55.8
Gaithersburg 53
Watkins Mill 52.2
Kennedy 49.2

Pretty close to the reverse of a FARMS rate-sorted list. So neither surprising nor meaningful.

+1 Almost to the exact order of lowest to highest FARMS. I mean, you could've just listed the FARMs rate and not bother looking at MSDE.

I think the FARMS rate is highly correlated with English Language Learners. There are several different metrics that take a hit because of ELLs. When this new rating system came out I was pretty disgusted, because it’s effectively useless the way it is set-up. Pull all data for ELLs into their own category for 4 years after arriving in US. Leave the main categories with only data from kids who speak English, so those comparisons are more meaningful.

But then you would know exactly how many undocumented students are in your schools being funded by MoCo taxpayers instead of their home countries. Dems cannot let you know that.

A) Not all ELLs are undocumented;

B) Every single At a Glance document for every single school in MCPS shows you the number of kids receiving ESOL services;

C) The report card does the same thing.

And no one is so simple to think that they are. But it is undeniable that MCPS has had a large and growing undocumented population for years, and that the population places a tremendous strain on resources. Don't try to negate people's concerns with simplistic arguments.

So long as there are immigrant children of any sort, MCPS will (and legally must) educate them.

Perhaps those who don't want immigrants can work to help keep other countries in better shape so there are fewer refugees of all sorts.

Not the PP but I have no issue with educating immigrants. This is a very transient area. The issue comes down to integrating classes and the whole PC version of keeping kids mixed in color, sex, and abilities. MCPS needs to let this go because no one is learning this way. The top reading groups never meet and the bottom groups meet more but not enough for them to ever catch up.

In 1st grade if there are 100 kids and 4 classes in an ES and right now MCPS has 4 classes of 25 kids each of varying levels and pulling off in groups.

Why not put the bottom 20 in one class with a teacher and a para.
Put the two middle classes with 25 kids and they share a para
Top class has 30 kids and no para

Change them for math levels in afternoon - similar levels.

I just don't understand the mixed groupings at all. The kids struggling are embarrassed and act out, don't care, or are too quiet. The kids that are smarter never meet in their groups, are always bored, can act out, and many times are used by exhausted teachers, as mini helpers to other kids struggling - embarrassing both. There is rarely ever full education going on. Just groups and busy work. I have volunteered in enough classes in ES before and after common/integrated classrooms to see that it is a failure.

I don’t think you’ve volunteered in that many classrooms if you think this is the solution. You have a way oversimplified view of children and learning. I fully believe in cohorting older students, but no, you don’t do what you’ve proposed with six year olds.

DP

What is your age limit?

MCPS does mixed ability for all ages until high school except for in Math.

Are you okay with cohorting (is that a made-up MCPS word?) 3rd graders? I am. Some third graders read very well and some don’t. As long as the groups are fluid, it’s fine.

Instead, my 3rd grader is stuck in a class where her reading group barely ever meets. The teacher is too busy working with the kids who are below level. SO MUCH wasted time.

Put yourself in the shoes of a parent whose kid of in the bottom group and as a result feels that at 7 they have already failed in life. Would you still advocate for this attach that stigmatizes kids so young?

You know what is stigmatizing? Throwing the 7 and 8 year olds who can barely read and write into the same classes with kid who are above grade level. I volunteer in my kid’s classes often and the kids are ALWAYS comparing themselves to others. About everything.

These kids need extra help and support. Put them in a class with fewer kids and an extra para. Don’t just throw them in with the higher-achieving kids and expect them to learn by osmosis.

The opposite happens. They compare themselves to the kids in the top reading group and figure they can never do that. And they partially give up, and just okay games on the Chromebook.

No, you are wrong. You mixed ability classes are not useful at all, for any kids.

Maybe your child’s teacher just isn’t super strong in differentiating. Some are definitely better than others.

I suggest you stop spending so much time judging children while you volunteer and stop gloating that your child is “ahead” and use your time to give the learners who need support the support you keep saying they don’t have. You are also hyper-fixated on “reading groups” which is not the only instruction that is going on during the day. It’s but one piece.

I agree with you that MCPS in general leaves gifted students to languish and generally does not prioritize their learning needs appropriately at all. But I do not agree with tracking them starting in 1st grade. Not because of the self esteem of the kids, but because students come into school with greatly varied educational preparation and exposure, and I think it’s appropriate to spend time helping get everyone solid on the basics before sending them down a particular path.

Furthermore, not all “advanced” kids are well behaved and vice versa, but I do think putting all the “struggling” kids together at age 6 (and making another 1st grade class extra large with 30 kids) is a recipe for difficult classrooms to manage. You must be aware that teachers are still reporting high levels of burn out/job dissatisfaction.

Ask any ES teacher if he/she would rather have a class of 26 kids with 3 reading groups, versus a class of 26 kids with 5 different reading groups.

Pushing these mixed ability classes in 2nd and 3rd grade isn't helping teachers or students.

There's no reason they can't have 3 groups per teacher that are mixed ability and if and when kid levels up, they may be sent to a different class for reading similar to how math is handled. I agree it's preferable to have fewer groups but I think the best of both is workable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would be nice if there was a way to just get a list of all MCPS schools rather than having to look up one at a time.

Use this page: https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/SchoolsList/Index?l=15

OK, fine. Here they are

School Total Earned Points
Whitman 83.6
Churchill 82.8
Wootton 80.4
BCC 76.2
Walter Johnson 76
Richard Montgomery 70.4
Poolesville 69.7
Sherwood 68.8
Northwest 68
Clarksburg 66.9
Damascus 66.3
Quince Orchard 65.7
Rockville 65.3
Einstein 63.9
Blair 63.2
Magruder 62.1
Wheaton 61.6
Springbrook 61.6
Blake 61.1
Paint Branch 59.2
Seneca Valley 58.3
Northwood 55.8
Gaithersburg 53
Watkins Mill 52.2
Kennedy 49.2

Pretty close to the reverse of a FARMS rate-sorted list. So neither surprising nor meaningful.

+1 Almost to the exact order of lowest to highest FARMS. I mean, you could've just listed the FARMs rate and not bother looking at MSDE.

I think the FARMS rate is highly correlated with English Language Learners. There are several different metrics that take a hit because of ELLs. When this new rating system came out I was pretty disgusted, because it’s effectively useless the way it is set-up. Pull all data for ELLs into their own category for 4 years after arriving in US. Leave the main categories with only data from kids who speak English, so those comparisons are more meaningful.

But then you would know exactly how many undocumented students are in your schools being funded by MoCo taxpayers instead of their home countries. Dems cannot let you know that.

A) Not all ELLs are undocumented;

B) Every single At a Glance document for every single school in MCPS shows you the number of kids receiving ESOL services;

C) The report card does the same thing.

And no one is so simple to think that they are. But it is undeniable that MCPS has had a large and growing undocumented population for years, and that the population places a tremendous strain on resources. Don't try to negate people's concerns with simplistic arguments.

So long as there are immigrant children of any sort, MCPS will (and legally must) educate them.

Perhaps those who don't want immigrants can work to help keep other countries in better shape so there are fewer refugees of all sorts.

Not the PP but I have no issue with educating immigrants. This is a very transient area. The issue comes down to integrating classes and the whole PC version of keeping kids mixed in color, sex, and abilities. MCPS needs to let this go because no one is learning this way. The top reading groups never meet and the bottom groups meet more but not enough for them to ever catch up.

In 1st grade if there are 100 kids and 4 classes in an ES and right now MCPS has 4 classes of 25 kids each of varying levels and pulling off in groups.

Why not put the bottom 20 in one class with a teacher and a para.
Put the two middle classes with 25 kids and they share a para
Top class has 30 kids and no para

Change them for math levels in afternoon - similar levels.

I just don't understand the mixed groupings at all. The kids struggling are embarrassed and act out, don't care, or are too quiet. The kids that are smarter never meet in their groups, are always bored, can act out, and many times are used by exhausted teachers, as mini helpers to other kids struggling - embarrassing both. There is rarely ever full education going on. Just groups and busy work. I have volunteered in enough classes in ES before and after common/integrated classrooms to see that it is a failure.

I don’t think you’ve volunteered in that many classrooms if you think this is the solution. You have a way oversimplified view of children and learning. I fully believe in cohorting older students, but no, you don’t do what you’ve proposed with six year olds.

DP

What is your age limit?

MCPS does mixed ability for all ages until high school except for in Math.

Are you okay with cohorting (is that a made-up MCPS word?) 3rd graders? I am. Some third graders read very well and some don’t. As long as the groups are fluid, it’s fine.

Instead, my 3rd grader is stuck in a class where her reading group barely ever meets. The teacher is too busy working with the kids who are below level. SO MUCH wasted time.

Put yourself in the shoes of a parent whose kid of in the bottom group and as a result feels that at 7 they have already failed in life. Would you still advocate for this attach that stigmatizes kids so young?

You know what is stigmatizing? Throwing the 7 and 8 year olds who can barely read and write into the same classes with kid who are above grade level. I volunteer in my kid’s classes often and the kids are ALWAYS comparing themselves to others. About everything.

These kids need extra help and support. Put them in a class with fewer kids and an extra para. Don’t just throw them in with the higher-achieving kids and expect them to learn by osmosis.

The opposite happens. They compare themselves to the kids in the top reading group and figure they can never do that. And they partially give up, and just okay games on the Chromebook.

No, you are wrong. You mixed ability classes are not useful at all, for any kids.

Maybe your child’s teacher just isn’t super strong in differentiating. Some are definitely better than others.

I suggest you stop spending so much time judging children while you volunteer and stop gloating that your child is “ahead” and use your time to give the learners who need support the support you keep saying they don’t have. You are also hyper-fixated on “reading groups” which is not the only instruction that is going on during the day. It’s but one piece.

I agree with you that MCPS in general leaves gifted students to languish and generally does not prioritize their learning needs appropriately at all. But I do not agree with tracking them starting in 1st grade. Not because of the self esteem of the kids, but because students come into school with greatly varied educational preparation and exposure, and I think it’s appropriate to spend time helping get everyone solid on the basics before sending them down a particular path.

Furthermore, not all “advanced” kids are well behaved and vice versa, but I do think putting all the “struggling” kids together at age 6 (and making another 1st grade class extra large with 30 kids) is a recipe for difficult classrooms to manage. You must be aware that teachers are still reporting high levels of burn out/job dissatisfaction.

My kid's 3rd grade schedule has almost 2 hours blocked off for Language Arts. They barely have any time scheduled for History/Science. It's basically a large Language Arts block an a large Math block. The kids have reading groups and math groups. One group meets with the teacher, while the other groups are given busy work at their desks, usually on their Chromebooks. And hour and a half of 'independent work' doesn't help any of the kids. Not the kids who are ahead, not the kids who are at grade level, and certainly not the kids who are below grade level.

The 'struggling' kids are not necessarily difficult to manage. The class can be (should be) smaller, and they should have a para.

Of course, teachers are reporting high levels of burn out. It's impossible to give meaningful instruction to kids when there are 5 (FIVE!) reading groups in one class, and the teacher has to choose books for all of those various reading levels, along with appropriate activities to go along with those books.

+1.

Back to the original question, our ES is pretty diverse in terms of race and socioeconomic status. What jumped out most to me is that none of the groups are meeting the proficiency targets. Clearly something isn't working.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would be nice if there was a way to just get a list of all MCPS schools rather than having to look up one at a time.

Use this page: https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/SchoolsList/Index?l=15

OK, fine. Here they are

School Total Earned Points
Whitman 83.6
Churchill 82.8
Wootton 80.4
BCC 76.2
Walter Johnson 76
Richard Montgomery 70.4
Poolesville 69.7
Sherwood 68.8
Northwest 68
Clarksburg 66.9
Damascus 66.3
Quince Orchard 65.7
Rockville 65.3
Einstein 63.9
Blair 63.2
Magruder 62.1
Wheaton 61.6
Springbrook 61.6
Blake 61.1
Paint Branch 59.2
Seneca Valley 58.3
Northwood 55.8
Gaithersburg 53
Watkins Mill 52.2
Kennedy 49.2

Pretty close to the reverse of a FARMS rate-sorted list. So neither surprising nor meaningful.

+1 Almost to the exact order of lowest to highest FARMS. I mean, you could've just listed the FARMs rate and not bother looking at MSDE.

I think the FARMS rate is highly correlated with English Language Learners. There are several different metrics that take a hit because of ELLs. When this new rating system came out I was pretty disgusted, because it’s effectively useless the way it is set-up. Pull all data for ELLs into their own category for 4 years after arriving in US. Leave the main categories with only data from kids who speak English, so those comparisons are more meaningful.

But then you would know exactly how many undocumented students are in your schools being funded by MoCo taxpayers instead of their home countries. Dems cannot let you know that.

A) Not all ELLs are undocumented;

B) Every single At a Glance document for every single school in MCPS shows you the number of kids receiving ESOL services;

C) The report card does the same thing.

And no one is so simple to think that they are. But it is undeniable that MCPS has had a large and growing undocumented population for years, and that the population places a tremendous strain on resources. Don't try to negate people's concerns with simplistic arguments.

So long as there are immigrant children of any sort, MCPS will (and legally must) educate them.

Perhaps those who don't want immigrants can work to help keep other countries in better shape so there are fewer refugees of all sorts.

Not the PP but I have no issue with educating immigrants. This is a very transient area. The issue comes down to integrating classes and the whole PC version of keeping kids mixed in color, sex, and abilities. MCPS needs to let this go because no one is learning this way. The top reading groups never meet and the bottom groups meet more but not enough for them to ever catch up.

In 1st grade if there are 100 kids and 4 classes in an ES and right now MCPS has 4 classes of 25 kids each of varying levels and pulling off in groups.

Why not put the bottom 20 in one class with a teacher and a para.
Put the two middle classes with 25 kids and they share a para
Top class has 30 kids and no para

Change them for math levels in afternoon - similar levels.

I just don't understand the mixed groupings at all. The kids struggling are embarrassed and act out, don't care, or are too quiet. The kids that are smarter never meet in their groups, are always bored, can act out, and many times are used by exhausted teachers, as mini helpers to other kids struggling - embarrassing both. There is rarely ever full education going on. Just groups and busy work. I have volunteered in enough classes in ES before and after common/integrated classrooms to see that it is a failure.

I don’t think you’ve volunteered in that many classrooms if you think this is the solution. You have a way oversimplified view of children and learning. I fully believe in cohorting older students, but no, you don’t do what you’ve proposed with six year olds.

DP

What is your age limit?

MCPS does mixed ability for all ages until high school except for in Math.

Are you okay with cohorting (is that a made-up MCPS word?) 3rd graders? I am. Some third graders read very well and some don’t. As long as the groups are fluid, it’s fine.

Instead, my 3rd grader is stuck in a class where her reading group barely ever meets. The teacher is too busy working with the kids who are below level. SO MUCH wasted time.

Put yourself in the shoes of a parent whose kid of in the bottom group and as a result feels that at 7 they have already failed in life. Would you still advocate for this attach that stigmatizes kids so young?

You know what is stigmatizing? Throwing the 7 and 8 year olds who can barely read and write into the same classes with kid who are above grade level. I volunteer in my kid’s classes often and the kids are ALWAYS comparing themselves to others. About everything.

These kids need extra help and support. Put them in a class with fewer kids and an extra para. Don’t just throw them in with the higher-achieving kids and expect them to learn by osmosis.

The opposite happens. They compare themselves to the kids in the top reading group and figure they can never do that. And they partially give up, and just okay games on the Chromebook.

No, you are wrong. You mixed ability classes are not useful at all, for any kids.

Maybe your child’s teacher just isn’t super strong in differentiating. Some are definitely better than others.

I suggest you stop spending so much time judging children while you volunteer and stop gloating that your child is “ahead” and use your time to give the learners who need support the support you keep saying they don’t have. You are also hyper-fixated on “reading groups” which is not the only instruction that is going on during the day. It’s but one piece.

I agree with you that MCPS in general leaves gifted students to languish and generally does not prioritize their learning needs appropriately at all. But I do not agree with tracking them starting in 1st grade. Not because of the self esteem of the kids, but because students come into school with greatly varied educational preparation and exposure, and I think it’s appropriate to spend time helping get everyone solid on the basics before sending them down a particular path.

Furthermore, not all “advanced” kids are well behaved and vice versa, but I do think putting all the “struggling” kids together at age 6 (and making another 1st grade class extra large with 30 kids) is a recipe for difficult classrooms to manage. You must be aware that teachers are still reporting high levels of burn out/job dissatisfaction.

My kid's 3rd grade schedule has almost 2 hours blocked off for Language Arts. They barely have any time scheduled for History/Science. It's basically a large Language Arts block an a large Math block. The kids have reading groups and math groups. One group meets with the teacher, while the other groups are given busy work at their desks, usually on their Chromebooks. And hour and a half of 'independent work' doesn't help any of the kids. Not the kids who are ahead, not the kids who are at grade level, and certainly not the kids who are below grade level.

The 'struggling' kids are not necessarily difficult to manage. The class can be (should be) smaller, and they should have a para.

Of course, teachers are reporting high levels of burn out. It's impossible to give meaningful instruction to kids when there are 5 (FIVE!) reading groups in one class, and the teacher has to choose books for all of those various reading levels, along with appropriate activities to go along with those books.

+1.

Back to the original question, our ES is pretty diverse in terms of race and socioeconomic status. What jumped out most to me is that none of the groups are meeting the proficiency targets. Clearly something isn't working.

I mean, the test is new and clunky, and was administered to small children who went to school online for a year, and only 4 days a week. What results were you expecting?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would be nice if there was a way to just get a list of all MCPS schools rather than having to look up one at a time.

Use this page: https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/SchoolsList/Index?l=15

OK, fine. Here they are

School Total Earned Points
Whitman 83.6
Churchill 82.8
Wootton 80.4
BCC 76.2
Walter Johnson 76
Richard Montgomery 70.4
Poolesville 69.7
Sherwood 68.8
Northwest 68
Clarksburg 66.9
Damascus 66.3
Quince Orchard 65.7
Rockville 65.3
Einstein 63.9
Blair 63.2
Magruder 62.1
Wheaton 61.6
Springbrook 61.6
Blake 61.1
Paint Branch 59.2
Seneca Valley 58.3
Northwood 55.8
Gaithersburg 53
Watkins Mill 52.2
Kennedy 49.2

Pretty close to the reverse of a FARMS rate-sorted list. So neither surprising nor meaningful.

+1 Almost to the exact order of lowest to highest FARMS. I mean, you could've just listed the FARMs rate and not bother looking at MSDE.

I think the FARMS rate is highly correlated with English Language Learners. There are several different metrics that take a hit because of ELLs. When this new rating system came out I was pretty disgusted, because it’s effectively useless the way it is set-up. Pull all data for ELLs into their own category for 4 years after arriving in US. Leave the main categories with only data from kids who speak English, so those comparisons are more meaningful.

But then you would know exactly how many undocumented students are in your schools being funded by MoCo taxpayers instead of their home countries. Dems cannot let you know that.

A) Not all ELLs are undocumented;

B) Every single At a Glance document for every single school in MCPS shows you the number of kids receiving ESOL services;

C) The report card does the same thing.

And no one is so simple to think that they are. But it is undeniable that MCPS has had a large and growing undocumented population for years, and that the population places a tremendous strain on resources. Don't try to negate people's concerns with simplistic arguments.

So long as there are immigrant children of any sort, MCPS will (and legally must) educate them.

Perhaps those who don't want immigrants can work to help keep other countries in better shape so there are fewer refugees of all sorts.

Not the PP but I have no issue with educating immigrants. This is a very transient area. The issue comes down to integrating classes and the whole PC version of keeping kids mixed in color, sex, and abilities. MCPS needs to let this go because no one is learning this way. The top reading groups never meet and the bottom groups meet more but not enough for them to ever catch up.

In 1st grade if there are 100 kids and 4 classes in an ES and right now MCPS has 4 classes of 25 kids each of varying levels and pulling off in groups.

Why not put the bottom 20 in one class with a teacher and a para.
Put the two middle classes with 25 kids and they share a para
Top class has 30 kids and no para

Change them for math levels in afternoon - similar levels.

I just don't understand the mixed groupings at all. The kids struggling are embarrassed and act out, don't care, or are too quiet. The kids that are smarter never meet in their groups, are always bored, can act out, and many times are used by exhausted teachers, as mini helpers to other kids struggling - embarrassing both. There is rarely ever full education going on. Just groups and busy work. I have volunteered in enough classes in ES before and after common/integrated classrooms to see that it is a failure.

I don’t think you’ve volunteered in that many classrooms if you think this is the solution. You have a way oversimplified view of children and learning. I fully believe in cohorting older students, but no, you don’t do what you’ve proposed with six year olds.

DP

What is your age limit?

MCPS does mixed ability for all ages until high school except for in Math.

Are you okay with cohorting (is that a made-up MCPS word?) 3rd graders? I am. Some third graders read very well and some don’t. As long as the groups are fluid, it’s fine.

Instead, my 3rd grader is stuck in a class where her reading group barely ever meets. The teacher is too busy working with the kids who are below level. SO MUCH wasted time.

Put yourself in the shoes of a parent whose kid of in the bottom group and as a result feels that at 7 they have already failed in life. Would you still advocate for this attach that stigmatizes kids so young?

You know what is stigmatizing? Throwing the 7 and 8 year olds who can barely read and write into the same classes with kid who are above grade level. I volunteer in my kid’s classes often and the kids are ALWAYS comparing themselves to others. About everything.

These kids need extra help and support. Put them in a class with fewer kids and an extra para. Don’t just throw them in with the higher-achieving kids and expect them to learn by osmosis.

The opposite happens. They compare themselves to the kids in the top reading group and figure they can never do that. And they partially give up, and just okay games on the Chromebook.

No, you are wrong. You mixed ability classes are not useful at all, for any kids.

Maybe your child’s teacher just isn’t super strong in differentiating. Some are definitely better than others.

I suggest you stop spending so much time judging children while you volunteer and stop gloating that your child is “ahead” and use your time to give the learners who need support the support you keep saying they don’t have. You are also hyper-fixated on “reading groups” which is not the only instruction that is going on during the day. It’s but one piece.

I agree with you that MCPS in general leaves gifted students to languish and generally does not prioritize their learning needs appropriately at all. But I do not agree with tracking them starting in 1st grade. Not because of the self esteem of the kids, but because students come into school with greatly varied educational preparation and exposure, and I think it’s appropriate to spend time helping get everyone solid on the basics before sending them down a particular path.

Furthermore, not all “advanced” kids are well behaved and vice versa, but I do think putting all the “struggling” kids together at age 6 (and making another 1st grade class extra large with 30 kids) is a recipe for difficult classrooms to manage. You must be aware that teachers are still reporting high levels of burn out/job dissatisfaction.

Ask any ES teacher if he/she would rather have a class of 26 kids with 3 reading groups, versus a class of 26 kids with 5 different reading groups.

Pushing these mixed ability classes in 2nd and 3rd grade isn't helping teachers or students.

There's no reason they can't have 3 groups per teacher that are mixed ability and if and when kid levels up, they may be sent to a different class for reading similar to how math is handled. I agree it's preferable to have fewer groups but I think the best of both is workable.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would be nice if there was a way to just get a list of all MCPS schools rather than having to look up one at a time.

Use this page: https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/SchoolsList/Index?l=15

OK, fine. Here they are

School Total Earned Points
Whitman 83.6
Churchill 82.8
Wootton 80.4
BCC 76.2
Walter Johnson 76
Richard Montgomery 70.4
Poolesville 69.7
Sherwood 68.8
Northwest 68
Clarksburg 66.9
Damascus 66.3
Quince Orchard 65.7
Rockville 65.3
Einstein 63.9
Blair 63.2
Magruder 62.1
Wheaton 61.6
Springbrook 61.6
Blake 61.1
Paint Branch 59.2
Seneca Valley 58.3
Northwood 55.8
Gaithersburg 53
Watkins Mill 52.2
Kennedy 49.2

Pretty close to the reverse of a FARMS rate-sorted list. So neither surprising nor meaningful.

+1 Almost to the exact order of lowest to highest FARMS. I mean, you could've just listed the FARMs rate and not bother looking at MSDE.

I think the FARMS rate is highly correlated with English Language Learners. There are several different metrics that take a hit because of ELLs. When this new rating system came out I was pretty disgusted, because it’s effectively useless the way it is set-up. Pull all data for ELLs into their own category for 4 years after arriving in US. Leave the main categories with only data from kids who speak English, so those comparisons are more meaningful.

But then you would know exactly how many undocumented students are in your schools being funded by MoCo taxpayers instead of their home countries. Dems cannot let you know that.

A) Not all ELLs are undocumented;

B) Every single At a Glance document for every single school in MCPS shows you the number of kids receiving ESOL services;

C) The report card does the same thing.

And no one is so simple to think that they are. But it is undeniable that MCPS has had a large and growing undocumented population for years, and that the population places a tremendous strain on resources. Don't try to negate people's concerns with simplistic arguments.

So long as there are immigrant children of any sort, MCPS will (and legally must) educate them.

Perhaps those who don't want immigrants can work to help keep other countries in better shape so there are fewer refugees of all sorts.

Not the PP but I have no issue with educating immigrants. This is a very transient area. The issue comes down to integrating classes and the whole PC version of keeping kids mixed in color, sex, and abilities. MCPS needs to let this go because no one is learning this way. The top reading groups never meet and the bottom groups meet more but not enough for them to ever catch up.

In 1st grade if there are 100 kids and 4 classes in an ES and right now MCPS has 4 classes of 25 kids each of varying levels and pulling off in groups.

Why not put the bottom 20 in one class with a teacher and a para.
Put the two middle classes with 25 kids and they share a para
Top class has 30 kids and no para

Change them for math levels in afternoon - similar levels.

I just don't understand the mixed groupings at all. The kids struggling are embarrassed and act out, don't care, or are too quiet. The kids that are smarter never meet in their groups, are always bored, can act out, and many times are used by exhausted teachers, as mini helpers to other kids struggling - embarrassing both. There is rarely ever full education going on. Just groups and busy work. I have volunteered in enough classes in ES before and after common/integrated classrooms to see that it is a failure.

I don’t think you’ve volunteered in that many classrooms if you think this is the solution. You have a way oversimplified view of children and learning. I fully believe in cohorting older students, but no, you don’t do what you’ve proposed with six year olds.

DP

What is your age limit?

MCPS does mixed ability for all ages until high school except for in Math.

Are you okay with cohorting (is that a made-up MCPS word?) 3rd graders? I am. Some third graders read very well and some don’t. As long as the groups are fluid, it’s fine.

Instead, my 3rd grader is stuck in a class where her reading group barely ever meets. The teacher is too busy working with the kids who are below level. SO MUCH wasted time.

Put yourself in the shoes of a parent whose kid of in the bottom group and as a result feels that at 7 they have already failed in life. Would you still advocate for this attach that stigmatizes kids so young?

You know what is stigmatizing? Throwing the 7 and 8 year olds who can barely read and write into the same classes with kid who are above grade level. I volunteer in my kid’s classes often and the kids are ALWAYS comparing themselves to others. About everything.

These kids need extra help and support. Put them in a class with fewer kids and an extra para. Don’t just throw them in with the higher-achieving kids and expect them to learn by osmosis.

The opposite happens. They compare themselves to the kids in the top reading group and figure they can never do that. And they partially give up, and just okay games on the Chromebook.

No, you are wrong. You mixed ability classes are not useful at all, for any kids.

Maybe your child’s teacher just isn’t super strong in differentiating. Some are definitely better than others.

I suggest you stop spending so much time judging children while you volunteer and stop gloating that your child is “ahead” and use your time to give the learners who need support the support you keep saying they don’t have. You are also hyper-fixated on “reading groups” which is not the only instruction that is going on during the day. It’s but one piece.

I agree with you that MCPS in general leaves gifted students to languish and generally does not prioritize their learning needs appropriately at all. But I do not agree with tracking them starting in 1st grade. Not because of the self esteem of the kids, but because students come into school with greatly varied educational preparation and exposure, and I think it’s appropriate to spend time helping get everyone solid on the basics before sending them down a particular path.

Furthermore, not all “advanced” kids are well behaved and vice versa, but I do think putting all the “struggling” kids together at age 6 (and making another 1st grade class extra large with 30 kids) is a recipe for difficult classrooms to manage. You must be aware that teachers are still reporting high levels of burn out/job dissatisfaction.

My kid's 3rd grade schedule has almost 2 hours blocked off for Language Arts. They barely have any time scheduled for History/Science. It's basically a large Language Arts block an a large Math block. The kids have reading groups and math groups. One group meets with the teacher, while the other groups are given busy work at their desks, usually on their Chromebooks. And hour and a half of 'independent work' doesn't help any of the kids. Not the kids who are ahead, not the kids who are at grade level, and certainly not the kids who are below grade level.

The 'struggling' kids are not necessarily difficult to manage. The class can be (should be) smaller, and they should have a para.

Of course, teachers are reporting high levels of burn out. It's impossible to give meaningful instruction to kids when there are 5 (FIVE!) reading groups in one class, and the teacher has to choose books for all of those various reading levels, along with appropriate activities to go along with those books.

+1.

Back to the original question, our ES is pretty diverse in terms of race and socioeconomic status. What jumped out most to me is that none of the groups are meeting the proficiency targets. Clearly something isn't working.

Yep. MCPS has achieved it's stated goal of #Equity.

The school system is failing all kids, of all races, equally. Or, I guess, MCPS can put out a press release discussing how it's effectively narrowed the Achievement Gap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would be nice if there was a way to just get a list of all MCPS schools rather than having to look up one at a time.

Use this page: https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/SchoolsList/Index?l=15

OK, fine. Here they are

School Total Earned Points
Whitman 83.6
Churchill 82.8
Wootton 80.4
BCC 76.2
Walter Johnson 76
Richard Montgomery 70.4
Poolesville 69.7
Sherwood 68.8
Northwest 68
Clarksburg 66.9
Damascus 66.3
Quince Orchard 65.7
Rockville 65.3
Einstein 63.9
Blair 63.2
Magruder 62.1
Wheaton 61.6
Springbrook 61.6
Blake 61.1
Paint Branch 59.2
Seneca Valley 58.3
Northwood 55.8
Gaithersburg 53
Watkins Mill 52.2
Kennedy 49.2

Pretty close to the reverse of a FARMS rate-sorted list. So neither surprising nor meaningful.

+1 Almost to the exact order of lowest to highest FARMS. I mean, you could've just listed the FARMs rate and not bother looking at MSDE.

I think the FARMS rate is highly correlated with English Language Learners. There are several different metrics that take a hit because of ELLs. When this new rating system came out I was pretty disgusted, because it’s effectively useless the way it is set-up. Pull all data for ELLs into their own category for 4 years after arriving in US. Leave the main categories with only data from kids who speak English, so those comparisons are more meaningful.

But then you would know exactly how many undocumented students are in your schools being funded by MoCo taxpayers instead of their home countries. Dems cannot let you know that.

A) Not all ELLs are undocumented;

B) Every single At a Glance document for every single school in MCPS shows you the number of kids receiving ESOL services;

C) The report card does the same thing.

And no one is so simple to think that they are. But it is undeniable that MCPS has had a large and growing undocumented population for years, and that the population places a tremendous strain on resources. Don't try to negate people's concerns with simplistic arguments.

So long as there are immigrant children of any sort, MCPS will (and legally must) educate them.

Perhaps those who don't want immigrants can work to help keep other countries in better shape so there are fewer refugees of all sorts.

Not the PP but I have no issue with educating immigrants. This is a very transient area. The issue comes down to integrating classes and the whole PC version of keeping kids mixed in color, sex, and abilities. MCPS needs to let this go because no one is learning this way. The top reading groups never meet and the bottom groups meet more but not enough for them to ever catch up.

In 1st grade if there are 100 kids and 4 classes in an ES and right now MCPS has 4 classes of 25 kids each of varying levels and pulling off in groups.

Why not put the bottom 20 in one class with a teacher and a para.
Put the two middle classes with 25 kids and they share a para
Top class has 30 kids and no para

Change them for math levels in afternoon - similar levels.

I just don't understand the mixed groupings at all. The kids struggling are embarrassed and act out, don't care, or are too quiet. The kids that are smarter never meet in their groups, are always bored, can act out, and many times are used by exhausted teachers, as mini helpers to other kids struggling - embarrassing both. There is rarely ever full education going on. Just groups and busy work. I have volunteered in enough classes in ES before and after common/integrated classrooms to see that it is a failure.

I don’t think you’ve volunteered in that many classrooms if you think this is the solution. You have a way oversimplified view of children and learning. I fully believe in cohorting older students, but no, you don’t do what you’ve proposed with six year olds.

DP

What is your age limit?

MCPS does mixed ability for all ages until high school except for in Math.

Are you okay with cohorting (is that a made-up MCPS word?) 3rd graders? I am. Some third graders read very well and some don’t. As long as the groups are fluid, it’s fine.

Instead, my 3rd grader is stuck in a class where her reading group barely ever meets. The teacher is too busy working with the kids who are below level. SO MUCH wasted time.

Put yourself in the shoes of a parent whose kid of in the bottom group and as a result feels that at 7 they have already failed in life. Would you still advocate for this attach that stigmatizes kids so young?

You know what is stigmatizing? Throwing the 7 and 8 year olds who can barely read and write into the same classes with kid who are above grade level. I volunteer in my kid’s classes often and the kids are ALWAYS comparing themselves to others. About everything.

These kids need extra help and support. Put them in a class with fewer kids and an extra para. Don’t just throw them in with the higher-achieving kids and expect them to learn by osmosis.

The opposite happens. They compare themselves to the kids in the top reading group and figure they can never do that. And they partially give up, and just okay games on the Chromebook.

No, you are wrong. You mixed ability classes are not useful at all, for any kids.

Maybe your child’s teacher just isn’t super strong in differentiating. Some are definitely better than others.

I suggest you stop spending so much time judging children while you volunteer and stop gloating that your child is “ahead” and use your time to give the learners who need support the support you keep saying they don’t have. You are also hyper-fixated on “reading groups” which is not the only instruction that is going on during the day. It’s but one piece.

I agree with you that MCPS in general leaves gifted students to languish and generally does not prioritize their learning needs appropriately at all. But I do not agree with tracking them starting in 1st grade. Not because of the self esteem of the kids, but because students come into school with greatly varied educational preparation and exposure, and I think it’s appropriate to spend time helping get everyone solid on the basics before sending them down a particular path.

Furthermore, not all “advanced” kids are well behaved and vice versa, but I do think putting all the “struggling” kids together at age 6 (and making another 1st grade class extra large with 30 kids) is a recipe for difficult classrooms to manage. You must be aware that teachers are still reporting high levels of burn out/job dissatisfaction.

My kid's 3rd grade schedule has almost 2 hours blocked off for Language Arts. They barely have any time scheduled for History/Science. It's basically a large Language Arts block an a large Math block. The kids have reading groups and math groups. One group meets with the teacher, while the other groups are given busy work at their desks, usually on their Chromebooks. And hour and a half of 'independent work' doesn't help any of the kids. Not the kids who are ahead, not the kids who are at grade level, and certainly not the kids who are below grade level.

The 'struggling' kids are not necessarily difficult to manage. The class can be (should be) smaller, and they should have a para.

Of course, teachers are reporting high levels of burn out. It's impossible to give meaningful instruction to kids when there are 5 (FIVE!) reading groups in one class, and the teacher has to choose books for all of those various reading levels, along with appropriate activities to go along with those books.

+1.

Back to the original question, our ES is pretty diverse in terms of race and socioeconomic status. What jumped out most to me is that none of the groups are meeting the proficiency targets. Clearly something isn't working.

I mean, the test is new and clunky, and was administered to small children who went to school online for a year, and only 4 days a week. What results were you expecting?

So what are we supposed to do with these results then?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would be nice if there was a way to just get a list of all MCPS schools rather than having to look up one at a time.

Use this page: https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/SchoolsList/Index?l=15

OK, fine. Here they are

School Total Earned Points
Whitman 83.6
Churchill 82.8
Wootton 80.4
BCC 76.2
Walter Johnson 76
Richard Montgomery 70.4
Poolesville 69.7
Sherwood 68.8
Northwest 68
Clarksburg 66.9
Damascus 66.3
Quince Orchard 65.7
Rockville 65.3
Einstein 63.9
Blair 63.2
Magruder 62.1
Wheaton 61.6
Springbrook 61.6
Blake 61.1
Paint Branch 59.2
Seneca Valley 58.3
Northwood 55.8
Gaithersburg 53
Watkins Mill 52.2
Kennedy 49.2

Pretty close to the reverse of a FARMS rate-sorted list. So neither surprising nor meaningful.

+1 Almost to the exact order of lowest to highest FARMS. I mean, you could've just listed the FARMs rate and not bother looking at MSDE.

I think the FARMS rate is highly correlated with English Language Learners. There are several different metrics that take a hit because of ELLs. When this new rating system came out I was pretty disgusted, because it’s effectively useless the way it is set-up. Pull all data for ELLs into their own category for 4 years after arriving in US. Leave the main categories with only data from kids who speak English, so those comparisons are more meaningful.

But then you would know exactly how many undocumented students are in your schools being funded by MoCo taxpayers instead of their home countries. Dems cannot let you know that.

A) Not all ELLs are undocumented;

B) Every single At a Glance document for every single school in MCPS shows you the number of kids receiving ESOL services;

C) The report card does the same thing.

And no one is so simple to think that they are. But it is undeniable that MCPS has had a large and growing undocumented population for years, and that the population places a tremendous strain on resources. Don't try to negate people's concerns with simplistic arguments.

So long as there are immigrant children of any sort, MCPS will (and legally must) educate them.

Perhaps those who don't want immigrants can work to help keep other countries in better shape so there are fewer refugees of all sorts.

Not the PP but I have no issue with educating immigrants. This is a very transient area. The issue comes down to integrating classes and the whole PC version of keeping kids mixed in color, sex, and abilities. MCPS needs to let this go because no one is learning this way. The top reading groups never meet and the bottom groups meet more but not enough for them to ever catch up.

In 1st grade if there are 100 kids and 4 classes in an ES and right now MCPS has 4 classes of 25 kids each of varying levels and pulling off in groups.

Why not put the bottom 20 in one class with a teacher and a para.
Put the two middle classes with 25 kids and they share a para
Top class has 30 kids and no para

Change them for math levels in afternoon - similar levels.

I just don't understand the mixed groupings at all. The kids struggling are embarrassed and act out, don't care, or are too quiet. The kids that are smarter never meet in their groups, are always bored, can act out, and many times are used by exhausted teachers, as mini helpers to other kids struggling - embarrassing both. There is rarely ever full education going on. Just groups and busy work. I have volunteered in enough classes in ES before and after common/integrated classrooms to see that it is a failure.

I don’t think you’ve volunteered in that many classrooms if you think this is the solution. You have a way oversimplified view of children and learning. I fully believe in cohorting older students, but no, you don’t do what you’ve proposed with six year olds.

DP

What is your age limit?

MCPS does mixed ability for all ages until high school except for in Math.

Are you okay with cohorting (is that a made-up MCPS word?) 3rd graders? I am. Some third graders read very well and some don’t. As long as the groups are fluid, it’s fine.

Instead, my 3rd grader is stuck in a class where her reading group barely ever meets. The teacher is too busy working with the kids who are below level. SO MUCH wasted time.

Put yourself in the shoes of a parent whose kid of in the bottom group and as a result feels that at 7 they have already failed in life. Would you still advocate for this attach that stigmatizes kids so young?

You know what is stigmatizing? Throwing the 7 and 8 year olds who can barely read and write into the same classes with kid who are above grade level. I volunteer in my kid’s classes often and the kids are ALWAYS comparing themselves to others. About everything.

These kids need extra help and support. Put them in a class with fewer kids and an extra para. Don’t just throw them in with the higher-achieving kids and expect them to learn by osmosis.

The opposite happens. They compare themselves to the kids in the top reading group and figure they can never do that. And they partially give up, and just okay games on the Chromebook.

No, you are wrong. You mixed ability classes are not useful at all, for any kids.

Maybe your child’s teacher just isn’t super strong in differentiating. Some are definitely better than others.

I suggest you stop spending so much time judging children while you volunteer and stop gloating that your child is “ahead” and use your time to give the learners who need support the support you keep saying they don’t have. You are also hyper-fixated on “reading groups” which is not the only instruction that is going on during the day. It’s but one piece.

I agree with you that MCPS in general leaves gifted students to languish and generally does not prioritize their learning needs appropriately at all. But I do not agree with tracking them starting in 1st grade. Not because of the self esteem of the kids, but because students come into school with greatly varied educational preparation and exposure, and I think it’s appropriate to spend time helping get everyone solid on the basics before sending them down a particular path.

Furthermore, not all “advanced” kids are well behaved and vice versa, but I do think putting all the “struggling” kids together at age 6 (and making another 1st grade class extra large with 30 kids) is a recipe for difficult classrooms to manage. You must be aware that teachers are still reporting high levels of burn out/job dissatisfaction.

My kid's 3rd grade schedule has almost 2 hours blocked off for Language Arts. They barely have any time scheduled for History/Science. It's basically a large Language Arts block an a large Math block. The kids have reading groups and math groups. One group meets with the teacher, while the other groups are given busy work at their desks, usually on their Chromebooks. And hour and a half of 'independent work' doesn't help any of the kids. Not the kids who are ahead, not the kids who are at grade level, and certainly not the kids who are below grade level.

The 'struggling' kids are not necessarily difficult to manage. The class can be (should be) smaller, and they should have a para.

Of course, teachers are reporting high levels of burn out. It's impossible to give meaningful instruction to kids when there are 5 (FIVE!) reading groups in one class, and the teacher has to choose books for all of those various reading levels, along with appropriate activities to go along with those books.

+1.

Back to the original question, our ES is pretty diverse in terms of race and socioeconomic status. What jumped out most to me is that none of the groups are meeting the proficiency targets. Clearly something isn't working.

Yep. MCPS has achieved it's stated goal of #Equity.

The school system is failing all kids, of all races, equally. Or, I guess, MCPS can put out a press release discussing how it's effectively narrowed the Achievement Gap.

Sure, if you're idea of failing is achieving proficiency.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You forgot the BCC inside the Ws/

I was told B-CC is NOT a W school so I didn't want to get admonished for making that mistake.

BCC isn’t a W school!

Correct! I don't see a W anywhere in the name: Bethesda-Chevy Chase.

Yeah, it's a W. Just as some schools with a W aren't (Watkins Mill, Wheaton), B-CC is a W.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would be nice if there was a way to just get a list of all MCPS schools rather than having to look up one at a time.

Use this page: https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/SchoolsList/Index?l=15

OK, fine. Here they are

School Total Earned Points
Whitman 83.6
Churchill 82.8
Wootton 80.4
BCC 76.2
Walter Johnson 76
Richard Montgomery 70.4
Poolesville 69.7
Sherwood 68.8
Northwest 68
Clarksburg 66.9
Damascus 66.3
Quince Orchard 65.7
Rockville 65.3
Einstein 63.9
Blair 63.2
Magruder 62.1
Wheaton 61.6
Springbrook 61.6
Blake 61.1
Paint Branch 59.2
Seneca Valley 58.3
Northwood 55.8
Gaithersburg 53
Watkins Mill 52.2
Kennedy 49.2

Pretty close to the reverse of a FARMS rate-sorted list. So neither surprising nor meaningful.

+1 Almost to the exact order of lowest to highest FARMS. I mean, you could've just listed the FARMs rate and not bother looking at MSDE.

I think the FARMS rate is highly correlated with English Language Learners. There are several different metrics that take a hit because of ELLs. When this new rating system came out I was pretty disgusted, because it’s effectively useless the way it is set-up. Pull all data for ELLs into their own category for 4 years after arriving in US. Leave the main categories with only data from kids who speak English, so those comparisons are more meaningful.

But then you would know exactly how many undocumented students are in your schools being funded by MoCo taxpayers instead of their home countries. Dems cannot let you know that.

A) Not all ELLs are undocumented;

B) Every single At a Glance document for every single school in MCPS shows you the number of kids receiving ESOL services;

C) The report card does the same thing.

And no one is so simple to think that they are. But it is undeniable that MCPS has had a large and growing undocumented population for years, and that the population places a tremendous strain on resources. Don't try to negate people's concerns with simplistic arguments.

So long as there are immigrant children of any sort, MCPS will (and legally must) educate them.

Perhaps those who don't want immigrants can work to help keep other countries in better shape so there are fewer refugees of all sorts.

Not the PP but I have no issue with educating immigrants. This is a very transient area. The issue comes down to integrating classes and the whole PC version of keeping kids mixed in color, sex, and abilities. MCPS needs to let this go because no one is learning this way. The top reading groups never meet and the bottom groups meet more but not enough for them to ever catch up.

In 1st grade if there are 100 kids and 4 classes in an ES and right now MCPS has 4 classes of 25 kids each of varying levels and pulling off in groups.

Why not put the bottom 20 in one class with a teacher and a para.
Put the two middle classes with 25 kids and they share a para
Top class has 30 kids and no para

Change them for math levels in afternoon - similar levels.

I just don't understand the mixed groupings at all. The kids struggling are embarrassed and act out, don't care, or are too quiet. The kids that are smarter never meet in their groups, are always bored, can act out, and many times are used by exhausted teachers, as mini helpers to other kids struggling - embarrassing both. There is rarely ever full education going on. Just groups and busy work. I have volunteered in enough classes in ES before and after common/integrated classrooms to see that it is a failure.

I don’t think you’ve volunteered in that many classrooms if you think this is the solution. You have a way oversimplified view of children and learning. I fully believe in cohorting older students, but no, you don’t do what you’ve proposed with six year olds.

DP

What is your age limit?

MCPS does mixed ability for all ages until high school except for in Math.

Are you okay with cohorting (is that a made-up MCPS word?) 3rd graders? I am. Some third graders read very well and some don’t. As long as the groups are fluid, it’s fine.

Instead, my 3rd grader is stuck in a class where her reading group barely ever meets. The teacher is too busy working with the kids who are below level. SO MUCH wasted time.

Put yourself in the shoes of a parent whose kid of in the bottom group and as a result feels that at 7 they have already failed in life. Would you still advocate for this attach that stigmatizes kids so young?

You know what is stigmatizing? Throwing the 7 and 8 year olds who can barely read and write into the same classes with kid who are above grade level. I volunteer in my kid’s classes often and the kids are ALWAYS comparing themselves to others. About everything.

These kids need extra help and support. Put them in a class with fewer kids and an extra para. Don’t just throw them in with the higher-achieving kids and expect them to learn by osmosis.

The opposite happens. They compare themselves to the kids in the top reading group and figure they can never do that. And they partially give up, and just okay games on the Chromebook.

No, you are wrong. You mixed ability classes are not useful at all, for any kids.

Maybe your child’s teacher just isn’t super strong in differentiating. Some are definitely better than others.

I suggest you stop spending so much time judging children while you volunteer and stop gloating that your child is “ahead” and use your time to give the learners who need support the support you keep saying they don’t have. You are also hyper-fixated on “reading groups” which is not the only instruction that is going on during the day. It’s but one piece.

I agree with you that MCPS in general leaves gifted students to languish and generally does not prioritize their learning needs appropriately at all. But I do not agree with tracking them starting in 1st grade. Not because of the self esteem of the kids, but because students come into school with greatly varied educational preparation and exposure, and I think it’s appropriate to spend time helping get everyone solid on the basics before sending them down a particular path.

Furthermore, not all “advanced” kids are well behaved and vice versa, but I do think putting all the “struggling” kids together at age 6 (and making another 1st grade class extra large with 30 kids) is a recipe for difficult classrooms to manage. You must be aware that teachers are still reporting high levels of burn out/job dissatisfaction.

My kid's 3rd grade schedule has almost 2 hours blocked off for Language Arts. They barely have any time scheduled for History/Science. It's basically a large Language Arts block an a large Math block. The kids have reading groups and math groups. One group meets with the teacher, while the other groups are given busy work at their desks, usually on their Chromebooks. And hour and a half of 'independent work' doesn't help any of the kids. Not the kids who are ahead, not the kids who are at grade level, and certainly not the kids who are below grade level.

The 'struggling' kids are not necessarily difficult to manage. The class can be (should be) smaller, and they should have a para.

Of course, teachers are reporting high levels of burn out. It's impossible to give meaningful instruction to kids when there are 5 (FIVE!) reading groups in one class, and the teacher has to choose books for all of those various reading levels, along with appropriate activities to go along with those books.

+1.

Back to the original question, our ES is pretty diverse in terms of race and socioeconomic status. What jumped out most to me is that none of the groups are meeting the proficiency targets. Clearly something isn't working.

Yep. MCPS has achieved it's stated goal of #Equity.

The school system is failing all kids, of all races, equally. Or, I guess, MCPS can put out a press release discussing how it's effectively narrowed the Achievement Gap.

Sure, if you're idea of failing is achieving proficiency.

At our school, the majority of kids are NOT proficient in Math. That’s failing, no matter how you want to spin it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would be nice if there was a way to just get a list of all MCPS schools rather than having to look up one at a time.

Use this page: https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/SchoolsList/Index?l=15

OK, fine. Here they are

School Total Earned Points
Whitman 83.6
Churchill 82.8
Wootton 80.4
BCC 76.2
Walter Johnson 76
Richard Montgomery 70.4
Poolesville 69.7
Sherwood 68.8
Northwest 68
Clarksburg 66.9
Damascus 66.3
Quince Orchard 65.7
Rockville 65.3
Einstein 63.9
Blair 63.2
Magruder 62.1
Wheaton 61.6
Springbrook 61.6
Blake 61.1
Paint Branch 59.2
Seneca Valley 58.3
Northwood 55.8
Gaithersburg 53
Watkins Mill 52.2
Kennedy 49.2

Pretty close to the reverse of a FARMS rate-sorted list. So neither surprising nor meaningful.

+1 Almost to the exact order of lowest to highest FARMS. I mean, you could've just listed the FARMs rate and not bother looking at MSDE.

I think the FARMS rate is highly correlated with English Language Learners. There are several different metrics that take a hit because of ELLs. When this new rating system came out I was pretty disgusted, because it’s effectively useless the way it is set-up. Pull all data for ELLs into their own category for 4 years after arriving in US. Leave the main categories with only data from kids who speak English, so those comparisons are more meaningful.

But then you would know exactly how many undocumented students are in your schools being funded by MoCo taxpayers instead of their home countries. Dems cannot let you know that.

A) Not all ELLs are undocumented;

B) Every single At a Glance document for every single school in MCPS shows you the number of kids receiving ESOL services;

C) The report card does the same thing.

And no one is so simple to think that they are. But it is undeniable that MCPS has had a large and growing undocumented population for years, and that the population places a tremendous strain on resources. Don't try to negate people's concerns with simplistic arguments.

So long as there are immigrant children of any sort, MCPS will (and legally must) educate them.

Perhaps those who don't want immigrants can work to help keep other countries in better shape so there are fewer refugees of all sorts.

Not the PP but I have no issue with educating immigrants. This is a very transient area. The issue comes down to integrating classes and the whole PC version of keeping kids mixed in color, sex, and abilities. MCPS needs to let this go because no one is learning this way. The top reading groups never meet and the bottom groups meet more but not enough for them to ever catch up.

In 1st grade if there are 100 kids and 4 classes in an ES and right now MCPS has 4 classes of 25 kids each of varying levels and pulling off in groups.

Why not put the bottom 20 in one class with a teacher and a para.
Put the two middle classes with 25 kids and they share a para
Top class has 30 kids and no para

Change them for math levels in afternoon - similar levels.

I just don't understand the mixed groupings at all. The kids struggling are embarrassed and act out, don't care, or are too quiet. The kids that are smarter never meet in their groups, are always bored, can act out, and many times are used by exhausted teachers, as mini helpers to other kids struggling - embarrassing both. There is rarely ever full education going on. Just groups and busy work. I have volunteered in enough classes in ES before and after common/integrated classrooms to see that it is a failure.

I don’t think you’ve volunteered in that many classrooms if you think this is the solution. You have a way oversimplified view of children and learning. I fully believe in cohorting older students, but no, you don’t do what you’ve proposed with six year olds.

DP

What is your age limit?

MCPS does mixed ability for all ages until high school except for in Math.

Are you okay with cohorting (is that a made-up MCPS word?) 3rd graders? I am. Some third graders read very well and some don’t. As long as the groups are fluid, it’s fine.

Instead, my 3rd grader is stuck in a class where her reading group barely ever meets. The teacher is too busy working with the kids who are below level. SO MUCH wasted time.

Put yourself in the shoes of a parent whose kid of in the bottom group and as a result feels that at 7 they have already failed in life. Would you still advocate for this attach that stigmatizes kids so young?

You know what is stigmatizing? Throwing the 7 and 8 year olds who can barely read and write into the same classes with kid who are above grade level. I volunteer in my kid’s classes often and the kids are ALWAYS comparing themselves to others. About everything.

These kids need extra help and support. Put them in a class with fewer kids and an extra para. Don’t just throw them in with the higher-achieving kids and expect them to learn by osmosis.

The opposite happens. They compare themselves to the kids in the top reading group and figure they can never do that. And they partially give up, and just okay games on the Chromebook.

No, you are wrong. You mixed ability classes are not useful at all, for any kids.

Maybe your child’s teacher just isn’t super strong in differentiating. Some are definitely better than others.

I suggest you stop spending so much time judging children while you volunteer and stop gloating that your child is “ahead” and use your time to give the learners who need support the support you keep saying they don’t have. You are also hyper-fixated on “reading groups” which is not the only instruction that is going on during the day. It’s but one piece.

I agree with you that MCPS in general leaves gifted students to languish and generally does not prioritize their learning needs appropriately at all. But I do not agree with tracking them starting in 1st grade. Not because of the self esteem of the kids, but because students come into school with greatly varied educational preparation and exposure, and I think it’s appropriate to spend time helping get everyone solid on the basics before sending them down a particular path.

Furthermore, not all “advanced” kids are well behaved and vice versa, but I do think putting all the “struggling” kids together at age 6 (and making another 1st grade class extra large with 30 kids) is a recipe for difficult classrooms to manage. You must be aware that teachers are still reporting high levels of burn out/job dissatisfaction.

My kid's 3rd grade schedule has almost 2 hours blocked off for Language Arts. They barely have any time scheduled for History/Science. It's basically a large Language Arts block an a large Math block. The kids have reading groups and math groups. One group meets with the teacher, while the other groups are given busy work at their desks, usually on their Chromebooks. And hour and a half of 'independent work' doesn't help any of the kids. Not the kids who are ahead, not the kids who are at grade level, and certainly not the kids who are below grade level.

The 'struggling' kids are not necessarily difficult to manage. The class can be (should be) smaller, and they should have a para.

Of course, teachers are reporting high levels of burn out. It's impossible to give meaningful instruction to kids when there are 5 (FIVE!) reading groups in one class, and the teacher has to choose books for all of those various reading levels, along with appropriate activities to go along with those books.

Its beyond ridiculous. Our admin now says a 90 minute block should only include 15 minutes of whole group instruction because "student centered learning is where the real learning occurs." Small groups are important, but so is whole group instruction. Kids are really just doing busy work during rotations if they aren't goofing off while the teacher works with their small group. It is a ton of re-directing and managing behaviors. Admin don't understand what it is like in a classroom setting with these kids right now, but they love to micromanage as if they have a clue. This is why teachers are burning out. The kids are suffering too because the aren't getting what they need, teachers are just trying to check the endless boxes admin keeps adding every single day.

[Anonymous]

BCC is not a W. If you’re referring to the wealthier mcps clusters, then you would say “W schools and BCC,” or something like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would be nice if there was a way to just get a list of all MCPS schools rather than having to look up one at a time.

Use this page: https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/SchoolsList/Index?l=15

OK, fine. Here they are

School Total Earned Points
Whitman 83.6
Churchill 82.8
Wootton 80.4
BCC 76.2
Walter Johnson 76
Richard Montgomery 70.4
Poolesville 69.7
Sherwood 68.8
Northwest 68
Clarksburg 66.9
Damascus 66.3
Quince Orchard 65.7
Rockville 65.3
Einstein 63.9
Blair 63.2
Magruder 62.1
Wheaton 61.6
Springbrook 61.6
Blake 61.1
Paint Branch 59.2
Seneca Valley 58.3
Northwood 55.8
Gaithersburg 53
Watkins Mill 52.2
Kennedy 49.2

Pretty close to the reverse of a FARMS rate-sorted list. So neither surprising nor meaningful.

+1 Almost to the exact order of lowest to highest FARMS. I mean, you could've just listed the FARMs rate and not bother looking at MSDE.

I think the FARMS rate is highly correlated with English Language Learners. There are several different metrics that take a hit because of ELLs. When this new rating system came out I was pretty disgusted, because it’s effectively useless the way it is set-up. Pull all data for ELLs into their own category for 4 years after arriving in US. Leave the main categories with only data from kids who speak English, so those comparisons are more meaningful.

But then you would know exactly how many undocumented students are in your schools being funded by MoCo taxpayers instead of their home countries. Dems cannot let you know that.

A) Not all ELLs are undocumented;

B) Every single At a Glance document for every single school in MCPS shows you the number of kids receiving ESOL services;

C) The report card does the same thing.

And no one is so simple to think that they are. But it is undeniable that MCPS has had a large and growing undocumented population for years, and that the population places a tremendous strain on resources. Don't try to negate people's concerns with simplistic arguments.

So long as there are immigrant children of any sort, MCPS will (and legally must) educate them.

Perhaps those who don't want immigrants can work to help keep other countries in better shape so there are fewer refugees of all sorts.

Not the PP but I have no issue with educating immigrants. This is a very transient area. The issue comes down to integrating classes and the whole PC version of keeping kids mixed in color, sex, and abilities. MCPS needs to let this go because no one is learning this way. The top reading groups never meet and the bottom groups meet more but not enough for them to ever catch up.

In 1st grade if there are 100 kids and 4 classes in an ES and right now MCPS has 4 classes of 25 kids each of varying levels and pulling off in groups.

Why not put the bottom 20 in one class with a teacher and a para.
Put the two middle classes with 25 kids and they share a para
Top class has 30 kids and no para

Change them for math levels in afternoon - similar levels.

I just don't understand the mixed groupings at all. The kids struggling are embarrassed and act out, don't care, or are too quiet. The kids that are smarter never meet in their groups, are always bored, can act out, and many times are used by exhausted teachers, as mini helpers to other kids struggling - embarrassing both. There is rarely ever full education going on. Just groups and busy work. I have volunteered in enough classes in ES before and after common/integrated classrooms to see that it is a failure.

I don’t think you’ve volunteered in that many classrooms if you think this is the solution. You have a way oversimplified view of children and learning. I fully believe in cohorting older students, but no, you don’t do what you’ve proposed with six year olds.

DP

What is your age limit?

MCPS does mixed ability for all ages until high school except for in Math.

Are you okay with cohorting (is that a made-up MCPS word?) 3rd graders? I am. Some third graders read very well and some don’t. As long as the groups are fluid, it’s fine.

Instead, my 3rd grader is stuck in a class where her reading group barely ever meets. The teacher is too busy working with the kids who are below level. SO MUCH wasted time.

Put yourself in the shoes of a parent whose kid of in the bottom group and as a result feels that at 7 they have already failed in life. Would you still advocate for this attach that stigmatizes kids so young?

.

It isn't the kids that do this. It is parents like you. If you really wanted to help your child you would want them in smaller environment with kids similar to him with extra teacher and para support so they can actually improve and learn and get up to the grade standards quickly.

What you want to do is throw the struggling kids in with everyone so not to stigmatize them, but yet you are stunting them. Protecting them by making them look average but keep them far below average because they aren't getting enough help. And they see kids in their class succeeding easily. They see them barely in groups, getting done their busy work in 5 minutes what takes them the entire group break to do and if not, they see the teacher ask smart Joey to help them learn the work which is so humiliating. Joey rolls his eyes because he just wants to read his book at his desk. So instead they usually just quickly get done the work, throw it in the bin and not learn anything. Teacher is too overwhelmed to look over and realize how much kid is struggling. And each year kids like this slip through the cracks over and over again, but at least they weren't stigmatized. We just teach them to expect less, work average, and get more.

I agree with this 100%

Mixing the kids helps No one and wastes so much time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would be nice if there was a way to just get a list of all MCPS schools rather than having to look up one at a time.

Use this page: https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/SchoolsList/Index?l=15

OK, fine. Here they are

School Total Earned Points
Whitman 83.6
Churchill 82.8
Wootton 80.4
BCC 76.2
Walter Johnson 76
Richard Montgomery 70.4
Poolesville 69.7
Sherwood 68.8
Northwest 68
Clarksburg 66.9
Damascus 66.3
Quince Orchard 65.7
Rockville 65.3
Einstein 63.9
Blair 63.2
Magruder 62.1
Wheaton 61.6
Springbrook 61.6
Blake 61.1
Paint Branch 59.2
Seneca Valley 58.3
Northwood 55.8
Gaithersburg 53
Watkins Mill 52.2
Kennedy 49.2

Pretty close to the reverse of a FARMS rate-sorted list. So neither surprising nor meaningful.

+1 Almost to the exact order of lowest to highest FARMS. I mean, you could've just listed the FARMs rate and not bother looking at MSDE.

I think the FARMS rate is highly correlated with English Language Learners. There are several different metrics that take a hit because of ELLs. When this new rating system came out I was pretty disgusted, because it’s effectively useless the way it is set-up. Pull all data for ELLs into their own category for 4 years after arriving in US. Leave the main categories with only data from kids who speak English, so those comparisons are more meaningful.

But then you would know exactly how many undocumented students are in your schools being funded by MoCo taxpayers instead of their home countries. Dems cannot let you know that.

A) Not all ELLs are undocumented;

B) Every single At a Glance document for every single school in MCPS shows you the number of kids receiving ESOL services;

C) The report card does the same thing.

And no one is so simple to think that they are. But it is undeniable that MCPS has had a large and growing undocumented population for years, and that the population places a tremendous strain on resources. Don't try to negate people's concerns with simplistic arguments.

So long as there are immigrant children of any sort, MCPS will (and legally must) educate them.

Perhaps those who don't want immigrants can work to help keep other countries in better shape so there are fewer refugees of all sorts.

Not the PP but I have no issue with educating immigrants. This is a very transient area. The issue comes down to integrating classes and the whole PC version of keeping kids mixed in color, sex, and abilities. MCPS needs to let this go because no one is learning this way. The top reading groups never meet and the bottom groups meet more but not enough for them to ever catch up.

In 1st grade if there are 100 kids and 4 classes in an ES and right now MCPS has 4 classes of 25 kids each of varying levels and pulling off in groups.

Why not put the bottom 20 in one class with a teacher and a para.
Put the two middle classes with 25 kids and they share a para
Top class has 30 kids and no para

Change them for math levels in afternoon - similar levels.

I just don't understand the mixed groupings at all. The kids struggling are embarrassed and act out, don't care, or are too quiet. The kids that are smarter never meet in their groups, are always bored, can act out, and many times are used by exhausted teachers, as mini helpers to other kids struggling - embarrassing both. There is rarely ever full education going on. Just groups and busy work. I have volunteered in enough classes in ES before and after common/integrated classrooms to see that it is a failure.

I don’t think you’ve volunteered in that many classrooms if you think this is the solution. You have a way oversimplified view of children and learning. I fully believe in cohorting older students, but no, you don’t do what you’ve proposed with six year olds.

DP

What is your age limit?

MCPS does mixed ability for all ages until high school except for in Math.

Are you okay with cohorting (is that a made-up MCPS word?) 3rd graders? I am. Some third graders read very well and some don’t. As long as the groups are fluid, it’s fine.

Instead, my 3rd grader is stuck in a class where her reading group barely ever meets. The teacher is too busy working with the kids who are below level. SO MUCH wasted time.

Put yourself in the shoes of a parent whose kid of in the bottom group and as a result feels that at 7 they have already failed in life. Would you still advocate for this attach that stigmatizes kids so young?

.

It isn't the kids that do this. It is parents like you. If you really wanted to help your child you would want them in smaller environment with kids similar to him with extra teacher and para support so they can actually improve and learn and get up to the grade standards quickly.

What you want to do is throw the struggling kids in with everyone so not to stigmatize them, but yet you are stunting them. Protecting them by making them look average but keep them far below average because they aren't getting enough help. And they see kids in their class succeeding easily. They see them barely in groups, getting done their busy work in 5 minutes what takes them the entire group break to do and if not, they see the teacher ask smart Joey to help them learn the work which is so humiliating. Joey rolls his eyes because he just wants to read his book at his desk. So instead they usually just quickly get done the work, throw it in the bin and not learn anything. Teacher is too overwhelmed to look over and realize how much kid is struggling. And each year kids like this slip through the cracks over and over again, but at least they weren't stigmatized. We just teach them to expect less, work average, and get more.

I agree with this 100%

Mixing the kids helps No one and wastes so much time.

There have been so many actual studies done on this, but okay...some random DCUM poster says it wastes time,so it must be true! It really comes down to teacher preference. Teachers know how their students work together in the classroom better than anyone else and understand what works and what doesn't. It's up to them how they do small groups because they understand what unique needs their students have. There is no blanket, uniform, correct answer here..but DCUM gonna DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would be nice if there was a way to just get a list of all MCPS schools rather than having to look up one at a time.

Use this page: https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/SchoolsList/Index?l=15

OK, fine. Here they are

School Total Earned Points
Whitman 83.6
Churchill 82.8
Wootton 80.4
BCC 76.2
Walter Johnson 76
Richard Montgomery 70.4
Poolesville 69.7
Sherwood 68.8
Northwest 68
Clarksburg 66.9
Damascus 66.3
Quince Orchard 65.7
Rockville 65.3
Einstein 63.9
Blair 63.2
Magruder 62.1
Wheaton 61.6
Springbrook 61.6
Blake 61.1
Paint Branch 59.2
Seneca Valley 58.3
Northwood 55.8
Gaithersburg 53
Watkins Mill 52.2
Kennedy 49.2

Pretty close to the reverse of a FARMS rate-sorted list. So neither surprising nor meaningful.

+1 Almost to the exact order of lowest to highest FARMS. I mean, you could've just listed the FARMs rate and not bother looking at MSDE.

I think the FARMS rate is highly correlated with English Language Learners. There are several different metrics that take a hit because of ELLs. When this new rating system came out I was pretty disgusted, because it’s effectively useless the way it is set-up. Pull all data for ELLs into their own category for 4 years after arriving in US. Leave the main categories with only data from kids who speak English, so those comparisons are more meaningful.

But then you would know exactly how many undocumented students are in your schools being funded by MoCo taxpayers instead of their home countries. Dems cannot let you know that.

A) Not all ELLs are undocumented;

B) Every single At a Glance document for every single school in MCPS shows you the number of kids receiving ESOL services;

C) The report card does the same thing.

And no one is so simple to think that they are. But it is undeniable that MCPS has had a large and growing undocumented population for years, and that the population places a tremendous strain on resources. Don't try to negate people's concerns with simplistic arguments.

So long as there are immigrant children of any sort, MCPS will (and legally must) educate them.

Perhaps those who don't want immigrants can work to help keep other countries in better shape so there are fewer refugees of all sorts.

Not the PP but I have no issue with educating immigrants. This is a very transient area. The issue comes down to integrating classes and the whole PC version of keeping kids mixed in color, sex, and abilities. MCPS needs to let this go because no one is learning this way. The top reading groups never meet and the bottom groups meet more but not enough for them to ever catch up.

In 1st grade if there are 100 kids and 4 classes in an ES and right now MCPS has 4 classes of 25 kids each of varying levels and pulling off in groups.

Why not put the bottom 20 in one class with a teacher and a para.
Put the two middle classes with 25 kids and they share a para
Top class has 30 kids and no para

Change them for math levels in afternoon - similar levels.

I just don't understand the mixed groupings at all. The kids struggling are embarrassed and act out, don't care, or are too quiet. The kids that are smarter never meet in their groups, are always bored, can act out, and many times are used by exhausted teachers, as mini helpers to other kids struggling - embarrassing both. There is rarely ever full education going on. Just groups and busy work. I have volunteered in enough classes in ES before and after common/integrated classrooms to see that it is a failure.

I don’t think you’ve volunteered in that many classrooms if you think this is the solution. You have a way oversimplified view of children and learning. I fully believe in cohorting older students, but no, you don’t do what you’ve proposed with six year olds.

DP

What is your age limit?

MCPS does mixed ability for all ages until high school except for in Math.

Are you okay with cohorting (is that a made-up MCPS word?) 3rd graders? I am. Some third graders read very well and some don’t. As long as the groups are fluid, it’s fine.

Instead, my 3rd grader is stuck in a class where her reading group barely ever meets. The teacher is too busy working with the kids who are below level. SO MUCH wasted time.

Put yourself in the shoes of a parent whose kid of in the bottom group and as a result feels that at 7 they have already failed in life. Would you still advocate for this attach that stigmatizes kids so young?

.

It isn't the kids that do this. It is parents like you. If you really wanted to help your child you would want them in smaller environment with kids similar to him with extra teacher and para support so they can actually improve and learn and get up to the grade standards quickly.

What you want to do is throw the struggling kids in with everyone so not to stigmatize them, but yet you are stunting them. Protecting them by making them look average but keep them far below average because they aren't getting enough help. And they see kids in their class succeeding easily. They see them barely in groups, getting done their busy work in 5 minutes what takes them the entire group break to do and if not, they see the teacher ask smart Joey to help them learn the work which is so humiliating. Joey rolls his eyes because he just wants to read his book at his desk. So instead they usually just quickly get done the work, throw it in the bin and not learn anything. Teacher is too overwhelmed to look over and realize how much kid is struggling. And each year kids like this slip through the cracks over and over again, but at least they weren't stigmatized. We just teach them to expect less, work average, and get more.

I agree with this 100%

Mixing the kids helps No one and wastes so much time.

There have been so many actual studies done on this, but okay...some random DCUM poster says it wastes time,so it must be true! It really comes down to teacher preference. Teachers know how their students work together in the classroom better than anyone else and understand what works and what doesn't. It's up to them how they do small groups because they understand what unique needs their students have. There is no blanket, uniform, correct answer here..but DCUM gonna DCUM.

You might have a point if not for the dismal reading test scores year after year that reflect poor teaching.