Tired of Managing Millenials

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As far as I'm concerned, vacation time is earned. Employees can use it wherever. It's not the employees' problem if the company cannot handle people taking time off.

If 80% of the staff take off time from Christmas to new years, then then company should just close for that time.

If your company can't handle people taking time off, that means you don't have appropriate levels of staff.

Would you be cool with your local post office, emergency room, or grocery store closing between Christmas and New Year's? Gas stations? I really don't think people are thinking this through.

But people in those jobs KNOW about the schedules. My mom worked for an airline. Her vacation policy was extremely clear, and the way vacation weeks were assigned was very regimented. For years she worked on Christmas. That was part of the job. Fortunately, my dad's job was more white collar flexible, so whatever week my mom got for vacation was when my dad was taking it - no other option.
If his boss all of a sudden decided to be a jerk and not let him take off, there would have been issues. He's a baby boomer, so it's not like this is some "kids these days" issue.

It's funny that you think post office and grocery store employees don't take time off

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m the OP and have been back several times. The bigger point is we have a process in this office. We have a leave planning calendar where everyone puts their anticipated out of office time. This is for coordination purposes only. If you want approved leave until it is formally requested in the T&A system and approved by your supervisor. By the regs I posted earlier, yes, employees have the right to schedule earned PTO, but the managers have the right to determine when that leave can be taken due the needs of the office.

The last week week of May is very busy. We have a trade delegation scheduled that week and it is also EER season. I cannot commit to giving both people time off until I have a bigger picture of the trade delegation demands. I will also be caught up in writing EERs for all the staff, not just these two.

I had asked the young woman with the plan to attend her friends wedding to take charge of the trade mission. She told me she had plans to travel that week. I said I would look into assigning it to another manager. However, she jumped ahead of me, worked her own deal without telling me, and then went ahead and announced she’d bought her tickets and planned to go. My senior managers were aghast at the disregard for procedure and authority. It’s really not our problem she bought tickets without have firm leave approval first.

Frankly, as a Dad who took time off for both my daughters’ HS and college graduations, I’m more likely to approve that employee’s request (she followed procedure) than the wedding one. It’s just wedding of a college friend.

We are just a flat organization that runs all loosey goosey. We do not have telework and in office work is required. That is something we cannot negotiate with the CEO. It is what it is. We are also on 24/7 365. It is the nature of the work. You can be on call for anything that arises.

The first bolded paragraph is your own problem to work out. These people are asking for leave in FEBRUARY for something in May that you don't even have a clear picture of. It could cancel for all you know. And you needing time to write EERs should 100% not be shifted over to your employees. It's why you get paid the big bucks, as they say.

In the second bolded paragraph you reveal the truth - you really don't know if it's necessary for either or both employees to be there, and you even planned to assign the task to someone else! You are just irritated that they one employee created a solution for herself by taking some initiative. You and your other managers being "aghast" makes you sound about 1000 years old. And I'm 51, so not exactly a millenial.

Your processes are clunky and antiquated. Professionals don't want to beg and scrape to be granted time off that they've earned. Your employee tried to take initiative to take something off of your plate. You need to readjust your thinking.

[Anonymous]

It sounds like you make your emploees lives harder than they needed to make the work (or yourself) appear more important than it is.

[Anonymous]

How much time elapsed between the employee telling you she will be going on vacation and then announcing that she bought her tickets?

It sounds like she was waiting for you to get another manager to work on the trade delegation but you never got back to her so she found a replacement herself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is why people shouldn’t even disclose what their plans are for vacation/PTO to their employer. It’s screwed up that managers think they can prioritize employees’ time off based on what it’s for (child’s graduation vs. friend’s wedding).

~another GenX manager

I can't get time off unless I say why. Which I absolutely hate having to do; my boss doesn't need to know which doctor I need to see or why I'll be out Friday but he's much more likely to deny it if I say why. I had to invent a migraine disorder when I was doing fertility treatments because there are some things I just will not share. (Yes, I'm looking for a new job.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why people shouldn’t even disclose what their plans are for vacation/PTO to their employer. It’s screwed up that managers think they can prioritize employees’ time off based on what it’s for (child’s graduation vs. friend’s wedding).

~another GenX manager

I can't get time off unless I say why. Which I absolutely hate having to do; my boss doesn't need to know which doctor I need to see or why I'll be out Friday but he's much more likely to deny it if I say why. I had to invent a migraine disorder when I was doing fertility treatments because there are some things I just will not share. (Yes, I'm looking for a new job.)

That would piss me off like no other. It’s nobody’s business why I will be gone, and I will take that right tf to HR. Whose business it also isn’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m the OP and have been back several times. The bigger point is we have a process in this office. We have a leave planning calendar where everyone puts their anticipated out of office time. This is for coordination purposes only. If you want approved leave until it is formally requested in the T&A system and approved by your supervisor. By the regs I posted earlier, yes, employees have the right to schedule earned PTO, but the managers have the right to determine when that leave can be taken due the needs of the office.

The last week week of May is very busy. We have a trade delegation scheduled that week and it is also EER season. I cannot commit to giving both people time off until I have a bigger picture of the trade delegation demands. I will also be caught up in writing EERs for all the staff, not just these two.

I had asked the young woman with the plan to attend her friends wedding to take charge of the trade mission. She told me she had plans to travel that week. I said I would look into assigning it to another manager. However, she jumped ahead of me, worked her own deal without telling me, and then went ahead and announced she’d bought her tickets and planned to go. My senior managers were aghast at the disregard for procedure and authority. It’s really not our problem she bought tickets without have firm leave approval first.

Frankly, as a Dad who took time off for both my daughters’ HS and college graduations, I’m more likely to approve that employee’s request (she followed procedure) than the wedding one. It’s just wedding of a college friend.

We are just a flat organization that runs all loosey goosey. We do not have telework and in office work is required. That is something we cannot negotiate with the CEO. It is what it is. We are also on 24/7 365. It is the nature of the work. You can be on call for anything that arises.

OP, you are in the right. Most of us responsible adults understand that. The world has just lost its marbles thinking that workers deserve to be take vacation whenever and continue to be paid for not showing up because they're entitled to it,. The answer is no. You can only grant one request so do it.

Workers ARE entitled to vacation, nitwit. It's literally part of compensation. If companies don't grant vacation even though it is stipulated in the contract, it is a breach of contract and the work agreements.

Companies have no right to dictate what employees do with the compensation they've already earned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m the OP and have been back several times. The bigger point is we have a process in this office. We have a leave planning calendar where everyone puts their anticipated out of office time. This is for coordination purposes only. If you want approved leave until it is formally requested in the T&A system and approved by your supervisor. By the regs I posted earlier, yes, employees have the right to schedule earned PTO, but the managers have the right to determine when that leave can be taken due the needs of the office.

The last week week of May is very busy. We have a trade delegation scheduled that week and it is also EER season. I cannot commit to giving both people time off until I have a bigger picture of the trade delegation demands. I will also be caught up in writing EERs for all the staff, not just these two.

I had asked the young woman with the plan to attend her friends wedding to take charge of the trade mission. She told me she had plans to travel that week. I said I would look into assigning it to another manager. However, she jumped ahead of me, worked her own deal without telling me, and then went ahead and announced she’d bought her tickets and planned to go. My senior managers were aghast at the disregard for procedure and authority. It’s really not our problem she bought tickets without have firm leave approval first.

Frankly, as a Dad who took time off for both my daughters’ HS and college graduations, I’m more likely to approve that employee’s request (she followed procedure) than the wedding one. It’s just wedding of a college friend.

We are just a flat organization that runs all loosey goosey. We do not have telework and in office work is required. That is something we cannot negotiate with the CEO. It is what it is. We are also on 24/7 365. It is the nature of the work. You can be on call for anything that arises.

I hope you're paying them well, because it sounds like you're expecting everything and giving nothing in return.

I’m dying here.

A TRADE DELEGATION?? That’s your big emergency. 365/24/7 for some trade association work? Im 100% sure these employees make peanuts, that’s why they are scrambling for airfare in February. You are so full of yourself, it’s unbelievable; sounds like your CEO is even more. You are just under they didn’t follow your “process” ; despite being a flat loosely goosey org.

And guess what EER can be started whenever, so using your work as excuse to hold people’s vacation hostage is pretty low.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m the OP and have been back several times. The bigger point is we have a process in this office. We have a leave planning calendar where everyone puts their anticipated out of office time. This is for coordination purposes only. If you want approved leave until it is formally requested in the T&A system and approved by your supervisor. By the regs I posted earlier, yes, employees have the right to schedule earned PTO, but the managers have the right to determine when that leave can be taken due the needs of the office.

The last week week of May is very busy. We have a trade delegation scheduled that week and it is also EER season. I cannot commit to giving both people time off until I have a bigger picture of the trade delegation demands. I will also be caught up in writing EERs for all the staff, not just these two.

I had asked the young woman with the plan to attend her friends wedding to take charge of the trade mission. She told me she had plans to travel that week. I said I would look into assigning it to another manager. However, she jumped ahead of me, worked her own deal without telling me, and then went ahead and announced she’d bought her tickets and planned to go. My senior managers were aghast at the disregard for procedure and authority. It’s really not our problem she bought tickets without have firm leave approval first.

Frankly, as a Dad who took time off for both my daughters’ HS and college graduations, I’m more likely to approve that employee’s request (she followed procedure) than the wedding one. It’s just wedding of a college friend.

We are just a flat organization that runs all loosey goosey. We do not have telework and in office work is required. That is something we cannot negotiate with the CEO. It is what it is. We are also on 24/7 365. It is the nature of the work. You can be on call for anything that arises.

I hope you're paying them well, because it sounds like you're expecting everything and giving nothing in return.

This sounds like an awful employer and you aren't a good manager, OP.

You describe the organization as a "flat" organization, that runs all "loosey goosey" but at the same time you are freaking out over these employees aren't following a leave procedure to a T, even though they are giving several month notice of their planned leave and are pro-actively working out solutions to cover their work when they are gone. You and your organization are sending mixed messages to your employees by allowing it to remain "loosey goosey" culture.

Also you express your disgust for "Millennials" and you are favor the one employee who you self-identify with, since "As a Dad, who took time off for both my daughters' HS and college graduations [you are] more likely to approve that employee's request." It is very clear there you have some very strong unconscious (or perhaps conscious) bias' at play here that is impacting your ability to fairly manage your team.

On top of all of this, you require your employees to virtually be on call 24x7x365, but you disparage them for trying to use their EARNED leave, and block them altogether. How does your organization handle paid time off? Do you have a use it or lose it policy? Do you allow your employees to carry over unpaid leave? If as an organization you make it impossible for employees to use their paid time off, you could be running afoul of state labor laws and your organization could be forced to pay out employees for unused paid time off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m the OP and have been back several times. The bigger point is we have a process in this office. We have a leave planning calendar where everyone puts their anticipated out of office time. This is for coordination purposes only. If you want approved leave until it is formally requested in the T&A system and approved by your supervisor. By the regs I posted earlier, yes, employees have the right to schedule earned PTO, but the managers have the right to determine when that leave can be taken due the needs of the office.

The last week week of May is very busy. We have a trade delegation scheduled that week and it is also EER season. I cannot commit to giving both people time off until I have a bigger picture of the trade delegation demands. I will also be caught up in writing EERs for all the staff, not just these two.

I had asked the young woman with the plan to attend her friends wedding to take charge of the trade mission. She told me she had plans to travel that week. I said I would look into assigning it to another manager. However, she jumped ahead of me, worked her own deal without telling me, and then went ahead and announced she’d bought her tickets and planned to go. My senior managers were aghast at the disregard for procedure and authority. It’s really not our problem she bought tickets without have firm leave approval first.

Frankly, as a Dad who took time off for both my daughters’ HS and college graduations, I’m more likely to approve that employee’s request (she followed procedure) than the wedding one. It’s just wedding of a college friend.

We are just a flat organization that runs all loosey goosey. We do not have telework and in office work is required. That is something we cannot negotiate with the CEO. It is what it is. We are also on 24/7 365. It is the nature of the work. You can be on call for anything that arises.

OP, you are in the right. Most of us responsible adults understand that. The world has just lost its marbles thinking that workers deserve to be take vacation whenever and continue to be paid for not showing up because they're entitled to it,. The answer is no. You can only grant one request so do it.

Workers ARE entitled to vacation, nitwit. It's literally part of compensation. If companies don't grant vacation even though it is stipulated in the contract, it is a breach of contract and the work agreements.

Companies have no right to dictate what employees do with the compensation they've already earned.

You missed the second part of the sentence, genius. No, workers do not have a right to take vacation whenever. It must be approved on dates requested and that is usually stated in the employment contract. I've never seen an employment contract state otherwise.

....but actually, US workers do not have a right to paid vacation so your whole statement really is out the window.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m the OP and have been back several times. The bigger point is we have a process in this office. We have a leave planning calendar where everyone puts their anticipated out of office time. This is for coordination purposes only. If you want approved leave until it is formally requested in the T&A system and approved by your supervisor. By the regs I posted earlier, yes, employees have the right to schedule earned PTO, but the managers have the right to determine when that leave can be taken due the needs of the office.

The last week week of May is very busy. We have a trade delegation scheduled that week and it is also EER season. I cannot commit to giving both people time off until I have a bigger picture of the trade delegation demands. I will also be caught up in writing EERs for all the staff, not just these two.

I had asked the young woman with the plan to attend her friends wedding to take charge of the trade mission. She told me she had plans to travel that week. I said I would look into assigning it to another manager. However, she jumped ahead of me, worked her own deal without telling me, and then went ahead and announced she’d bought her tickets and planned to go. My senior managers were aghast at the disregard for procedure and authority. It’s really not our problem she bought tickets without have firm leave approval first.

Frankly, as a Dad who took time off for both my daughters’ HS and college graduations, I’m more likely to approve that employee’s request (she followed procedure) than the wedding one. It’s just wedding of a college friend.

We are just a flat organization that runs all loosey goosey. We do not have telework and in office work is required. That is something we cannot negotiate with the CEO. It is what it is. We are also on 24/7 365. It is the nature of the work. You can be on call for anything that arises.

OP, you are in the right. Most of us responsible adults understand that. The world has just lost its marbles thinking that workers deserve to be take vacation whenever and continue to be paid for not showing up because they're entitled to it,. The answer is no. You can only grant one request so do it.

Workers ARE entitled to vacation, nitwit. It's literally part of compensation. If companies don't grant vacation even though it is stipulated in the contract, it is a breach of contract and the work agreements.

Companies have no right to dictate what employees do with the compensation they've already earned.

Soooo...you have no problem with teachers using as many accumulated sick days as they please?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m the OP and have been back several times. The bigger point is we have a process in this office. We have a leave planning calendar where everyone puts their anticipated out of office time. This is for coordination purposes only. If you want approved leave until it is formally requested in the T&A system and approved by your supervisor. By the regs I posted earlier, yes, employees have the right to schedule earned PTO, but the managers have the right to determine when that leave can be taken due the needs of the office.

The last week week of May is very busy. We have a trade delegation scheduled that week and it is also EER season. I cannot commit to giving both people time off until I have a bigger picture of the trade delegation demands. I will also be caught up in writing EERs for all the staff, not just these two.

I had asked the young woman with the plan to attend her friends wedding to take charge of the trade mission. She told me she had plans to travel that week. I said I would look into assigning it to another manager. However, she jumped ahead of me, worked her own deal without telling me, and then went ahead and announced she’d bought her tickets and planned to go. My senior managers were aghast at the disregard for procedure and authority. It’s really not our problem she bought tickets without have firm leave approval first.

Frankly, as a Dad who took time off for both my daughters’ HS and college graduations, I’m more likely to approve that employee’s request (she followed procedure) than the wedding one. It’s just wedding of a college friend.

We are just a flat organization that runs all loosey goosey. We do not have telework and in office work is required. That is something we cannot negotiate with the CEO. It is what it is. We are also on 24/7 365. It is the nature of the work. You can be on call for anything that arises.

OP, you are in the right. Most of us responsible adults understand that. The world has just lost its marbles thinking that workers deserve to be take vacation whenever and continue to be paid for not showing up because they're entitled to it,. The answer is no. You can only grant one request so do it.

Workers ARE entitled to vacation, nitwit. It's literally part of compensation. If companies don't grant vacation even though it is stipulated in the contract, it is a breach of contract and the work agreements.

Companies have no right to dictate what employees do with the compensation they've already earned.

You missed the second part of the sentence, genius. No, workers do not have a right to take vacation whenever. It must be approved on dates requested and that is usually stated in the employment contract. I've never seen an employment contract state otherwise.

....but actually, US workers do not have a right to paid vacation so your whole statement really is out the window.

+1 Some of these posters are truly naive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m the OP and have been back several times. The bigger point is we have a process in this office. We have a leave planning calendar where everyone puts their anticipated out of office time. This is for coordination purposes only. If you want approved leave until it is formally requested in the T&A system and approved by your supervisor. By the regs I posted earlier, yes, employees have the right to schedule earned PTO, but the managers have the right to determine when that leave can be taken due the needs of the office.

The last week week of May is very busy. We have a trade delegation scheduled that week and it is also EER season. I cannot commit to giving both people time off until I have a bigger picture of the trade delegation demands. I will also be caught up in writing EERs for all the staff, not just these two.

I had asked the young woman with the plan to attend her friends wedding to take charge of the trade mission. She told me she had plans to travel that week. I said I would look into assigning it to another manager. However, she jumped ahead of me, worked her own deal without telling me, and then went ahead and announced she’d bought her tickets and planned to go. My senior managers were aghast at the disregard for procedure and authority. It’s really not our problem she bought tickets without have firm leave approval first.

Frankly, as a Dad who took time off for both my daughters’ HS and college graduations, I’m more likely to approve that employee’s request (she followed procedure) than the wedding one. It’s just wedding of a college friend.

We are just a flat organization that runs all loosey goosey. We do not have telework and in office work is required. That is something we cannot negotiate with the CEO. It is what it is. We are also on 24/7 365. It is the nature of the work. You can be on call for anything that arises.

OP, you are in the right. Most of us responsible adults understand that. The world has just lost its marbles thinking that workers deserve to be take vacation whenever and continue to be paid for not showing up because they're entitled to it,. The answer is no. You can only grant one request so do it.

Workers ARE entitled to vacation, nitwit. It's literally part of compensation. If companies don't grant vacation even though it is stipulated in the contract, it is a breach of contract and the work agreements.

Companies have no right to dictate what employees do with the compensation they've already earned.

You missed the second part of the sentence, genius. No, workers do not have a right to take vacation whenever. It must be approved on dates requested and that is usually stated in the employment contract. I've never seen an employment contract state otherwise.

....but actually, US workers do not have a right to paid vacation so your whole statement really is out the window.

Please don’t give legal advice on a topic you clearly have no idea about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nowadays this is how employees flex - i.e. everyone thinks companies are desperate to keep them. Essentially, they make plans, then tell you. It’s like they’re the boss and going to tell you what they’re going to do. It’s like when people move away, then say they want remote work. Fire these f*ckers!

For the most part, companies ARE desperate to keep them. The race for talent is real.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m the OP and have been back several times. The bigger point is we have a process in this office. We have a leave planning calendar where everyone puts their anticipated out of office time. This is for coordination purposes only. If you want approved leave until it is formally requested in the T&A system and approved by your supervisor. By the regs I posted earlier, yes, employees have the right to schedule earned PTO, but the managers have the right to determine when that leave can be taken due the needs of the office.

The last week week of May is very busy. We have a trade delegation scheduled that week and it is also EER season. I cannot commit to giving both people time off until I have a bigger picture of the trade delegation demands. I will also be caught up in writing EERs for all the staff, not just these two.

I had asked the young woman with the plan to attend her friends wedding to take charge of the trade mission. She told me she had plans to travel that week. I said I would look into assigning it to another manager. However, she jumped ahead of me, worked her own deal without telling me, and then went ahead and announced she’d bought her tickets and planned to go. My senior managers were aghast at the disregard for procedure and authority. It’s really not our problem she bought tickets without have firm leave approval first.

Frankly, as a Dad who took time off for both my daughters’ HS and college graduations, I’m more likely to approve that employee’s request (she followed procedure) than the wedding one. It’s just wedding of a college friend.

We are just a flat organization that runs all loosey goosey. We do not have telework and in office work is required. That is something we cannot negotiate with the CEO. It is what it is. We are also on 24/7 365. It is the nature of the work. You can be on call for anything that arises.

OP, you are in the right. Most of us responsible adults understand that. The world has just lost its marbles thinking that workers deserve to be take vacation whenever and continue to be paid for not showing up because they're entitled to it,. The answer is no. You can only grant one request so do it.

Workers ARE entitled to vacation, nitwit. It's literally part of compensation. If companies don't grant vacation even though it is stipulated in the contract, it is a breach of contract and the work agreements.

Companies have no right to dictate what employees do with the compensation they've already earned.

You missed the second part of the sentence, genius. No, workers do not have a right to take vacation whenever. It must be approved on dates requested and that is usually stated in the employment contract. I've never seen an employment contract state otherwise.

....but actually, US workers do not have a right to paid vacation so your whole statement really is out the window.

Please don’t give legal advice on a topic you clearly have no idea about.

Hilariously, though, I'm not wrong. And last I checked I wasn't rendering legal advice. I didn't realize that we needed a legal disclaimer for DCUM posts.