So tired of the crappy housing stock in the DMV combined with skyrocketing prices

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP here -- sorry, I realized I failed to include the link!

https://bungalowsandcottages.com/properties/listing/crmls/AR22260198/Monrovia/216-Monroe-Place

That is a stinking cute house.

It is, but look at the house next door. Boring bungalow. Most of CA suburbs homes are boring bungalows. I used to live in Socal for 25 years. I lived in a few of the boring bungalows, and one really cute spanish bungalow.

There are a few homes in the DC burbs that have nice architecture, but like I said before, they tend to be victorians that are money pits.

Yeah, the notion that this is typical of all homes in SoCal seems misplaced.

pp here.. exactly. The vast vast majority of homes in CA are boring bungalows or two story boxes.

Southern California has more natural beauty than DMV. Right around LA you have hills, mountains, and of course the beach. You can have tract homes set in cookie-cutter neighborhoods that would be blah here but there at least are set against more scenic backdrops.

There are some areas but the LA basin itself is not a beautiful natural area… at all.

[Anonymous]

It is ridiculous that you need to make one million dollars to live in A 3 bedroom brick home. It’s down right depressing.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You don't even have to go all the way to California. The housing stock and neighborhoods are much nicer in the traditional NE suburbs of Philly and NY, with good/better schools and equivalent prices.

Does NY really have nicer neighborhoods and similar pricing? I thought it was more expensive.

- someone who lives in NYC area

NY suburbs are more expensive overall on a per foot basis, especially taking into account property taxes, but there's much more attractive housing stock at all price ranges. If you go further out to say Fairfield county the prices are pretty similar to closer-in DC suburbs like Arlington and Bethesda, but the houses/towns are a lot nicer than what you get an hour outside of DC.

You mean Fairfield in CT? That’s far out there! Don’t think it is really a sustainable commute if you need to get into the city.

Fairfield county, yes. Tons of people commute to the city from there - there are express trains I think from at least Greenwich. It’s like 45 mins to grand central. Not saying it’s great (I said further out…) but it’s a common commute.

You’re right - I was thinking Fairfield the city which is way further out but yes, Greenwich/Stamford are common commutes

I live in Fairfield county (east of Stamford) and I would not say tons of people do the commute. Most families I know work locally, and it is relatively common for one spouse to have a job where they are in the city 1-2 days a week. No one has a job where they’re in the city every day, or where both spouses spend time in the city. Unless you live right on grand central, the commute to the city is brutal. And forget about driving, it’s 2+ hours.

That said, yes it is much nicer than anywhere even close to the DMV, but that’s because northeastern suburbs from Philly to Boston are just much more aesthetically pleasing. I think it’s due to a combination of the DMV being built for government workers of modest incomes, and lax southern zoning restrictions. You want more columns on that fake brick McMansion? You got it, that’s freedom! More four lane roads and strip malls? Yes, businesses love those! Giant county run schools that look like prisons? Perfect, keeps our tax bills low.

Is this a generally accepted belief or just your opinion? Asking since I don’t have a clue. I didn’t know the DMV was considered ugly… I thought suburbs anywhere were just suburbs and have different kinds of houses Depending on where you look.

Not trying to be rude at all but have you been to the northeast? Much more charm and character, tasteful architecture, small towns, beautiful landscaping, fewer strip malls and highways. I’ve heard Chicago suburbs are similar. DC area suburbs are a sprawl of tiny brick boxes and infill garage monsters broken up by sad strip malls on mini highways.

Oh please, comparing suburbs to suburbs there is barely any difference. I grew up in what is considered a nice town in NJ and it was full of split levels and bi levels and so-called McMansions just like here.

Sure, wealthy towns in Westchester and Fairfield County have some beautiful homes. So do wealthy areas here... not as many, but the do.

Disagree! I had previous house hunted on Long Island and in CT/Westchester suburbs. I’m also familiar with the burns in 2 other east coast cities. I couldn’t believe how terrible the housing and how ugly the suburbs are in DC. I ended up moving to another city because I couldn’t spend 2 million dollars on an ugly house near strip malls and a four lane highway. There is a huge difference between DMV suburbs and the ones in NY, Philly, Chicago, Atlanta, Boston etc.

Really, you moved to another city because you couldn't find a suburban house that you like? Seems like a weird reason to choose a city.

DP here but I get it. The architecture of a neighborhood is very important to me too. I wouldn't be able to live in a soulless neighborhood either. We ended up leaving DC for other reasons, but we lived in architecturally gorgeous neighborhoods when we were there. It was a requirement for every home we bought (both the home and the neighborhood).

How very privileged of you. Bravo!

But that's what we're talking about in this thread. Many of us don't want to drop $2M for homes and neighborhoods that aren't even appealing.

Sorry I didn’t realize this was a thread about where to get the best bang for your buck for $2M. Hope you find a better place for it!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You don't even have to go all the way to California. The housing stock and neighborhoods are much nicer in the traditional NE suburbs of Philly and NY, with good/better schools and equivalent prices.

Does NY really have nicer neighborhoods and similar pricing? I thought it was more expensive.

- someone who lives in NYC area

NY suburbs are more expensive overall on a per foot basis, especially taking into account property taxes, but there's much more attractive housing stock at all price ranges. If you go further out to say Fairfield county the prices are pretty similar to closer-in DC suburbs like Arlington and Bethesda, but the houses/towns are a lot nicer than what you get an hour outside of DC.

You mean Fairfield in CT? That’s far out there! Don’t think it is really a sustainable commute if you need to get into the city.

Fairfield county, yes. Tons of people commute to the city from there - there are express trains I think from at least Greenwich. It’s like 45 mins to grand central. Not saying it’s great (I said further out…) but it’s a common commute.

You’re right - I was thinking Fairfield the city which is way further out but yes, Greenwich/Stamford are common commutes

I live in Fairfield county (east of Stamford) and I would not say tons of people do the commute. Most families I know work locally, and it is relatively common for one spouse to have a job where they are in the city 1-2 days a week. No one has a job where they’re in the city every day, or where both spouses spend time in the city. Unless you live right on grand central, the commute to the city is brutal. And forget about driving, it’s 2+ hours.

That said, yes it is much nicer than anywhere even close to the DMV, but that’s because northeastern suburbs from Philly to Boston are just much more aesthetically pleasing. I think it’s due to a combination of the DMV being built for government workers of modest incomes, and lax southern zoning restrictions. You want more columns on that fake brick McMansion? You got it, that’s freedom! More four lane roads and strip malls? Yes, businesses love those! Giant county run schools that look like prisons? Perfect, keeps our tax bills low.

Is this a generally accepted belief or just your opinion? Asking since I don’t have a clue. I didn’t know the DMV was considered ugly… I thought suburbs anywhere were just suburbs and have different kinds of houses Depending on where you look.

Not trying to be rude at all but have you been to the northeast? Much more charm and character, tasteful architecture, small towns, beautiful landscaping, fewer strip malls and highways. I’ve heard Chicago suburbs are similar. DC area suburbs are a sprawl of tiny brick boxes and infill garage monsters broken up by sad strip malls on mini highways.

Oh please, comparing suburbs to suburbs there is barely any difference. I grew up in what is considered a nice town in NJ and it was full of split levels and bi levels and so-called McMansions just like here.

Sure, wealthy towns in Westchester and Fairfield County have some beautiful homes. So do wealthy areas here... not as many, but the do.

Disagree! I had previous house hunted on Long Island and in CT/Westchester suburbs. I’m also familiar with the burns in 2 other east coast cities. I couldn’t believe how terrible the housing and how ugly the suburbs are in DC. I ended up moving to another city because I couldn’t spend 2 million dollars on an ugly house near strip malls and a four lane highway. There is a huge difference between DMV suburbs and the ones in NY, Philly, Chicago, Atlanta, Boston etc.

Really, you moved to another city because you couldn't find a suburban house that you like? Seems like a weird reason to choose a city.

DP here but I get it. The architecture of a neighborhood is very important to me too. I wouldn't be able to live in a soulless neighborhood either. We ended up leaving DC for other reasons, but we lived in architecturally gorgeous neighborhoods when we were there. It was a requirement for every home we bought (both the home and the neighborhood).

tl;dr - can I write a post that makes me seem like the biggest D-bag currently posting on DCUM?

Answer: Yes I can!

[Anonymous]

The local builders just have no taste. For some reason these comments get deleted, but it’s true. Horrendous design and architecture until you’re dealing with the highest end builders

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP here. I take the point about Monrovia being a suburb. I wasn't trying to compared Capitol Hill to Monrovia -- I actually live on the Hill. But we'd move to a suburb happily. It's just that the housing stock there sucks too.

Someone said it would be more apt to compare Monrovia to Laurel, maybe even Columbia. Totally fair! No go find me a house in Laurel or even Columbia that has the charm of the one I linked to. You can't. You can find plenty of cheaper homes that are ugly, and you can find plenty for the same price that are ugly, and you can even find homes for more $$ that are somehow EVEN UGLIER.

My point is that in many parts of the country, you will find lots of ugly housing stock, but there's a discount because it's ugly or cheaply built. I just don't see the discount around here. I see many, many flipped houses or recent developer builds that are objectively unattractive -- weird proportions, no attention to scale, bad layouts, etc. -- and they still cost a premium. Even the ugly 90s McMansions with the weird foyers and ill-conceived kitchens, and cheap construction that you can already see needs major overhauls. Ugly, ugly, ugly.

And if you don't like the California comparison because it's too apples to oranges, then fine: look at houses off the Main Line outside Philly. You can find incredibly charming homes, some renovated and costing more, some unrenovated and with a discount to match, all along those commuter lines. You pay a premium for the better schools and proximity to Philadelphia, of course. But you can find attractive houses with good construction all over that area. Similar things in the New Jersey suburbs, outside Boston, in the Connecticut suburbs north of NYC. And you can find it in and around Chicago too, with more modern housing styles.

The DMV has uniquely ugly housing. Even row houses, which can be pretty on the outside, are often really ugly inside due to decades of weird, cheap updates where they've destroyed the original character of the home while adding nothing of value. When you find a row house in DC that isn't like this, it inevitably costs $2m+ even if it's small.

I stand by my assessment. I agree with the PP that the problem is that a lot of the houses in the 800k-150k range in this area were built cheaply for working class families and are now being sold to lawyers and doctors for 10x what they sold for in the 70s or 80s. Other cities built much more attractive or better quality housing for middle and working class people, so gentrification reveals lots of gems. This area did not.

+1

Columbia is a special kind of ugly.

Glad someone else said it not me. It's pretty ugly.

[Anonymous]

A lot of the nicer Baltimore area homes are so tastefully and well done... I wish the same level of care was provided to DC suburbs and both for older and new construction homes. https://www.redfin.com/MD/Baltimore/502-Somerset-Rd-21210/home/11155918

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The local builders just have no taste. For some reason these comments get deleted, but it’s true. Horrendous design and architecture until you’re dealing with the highest end builders

Yes the amount of grey vinyl floors and orange oak cabinets drives me nuts.

[Anonymous]

Frederick near Hood College is nice.

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Anonymous wrote:You don't even have to go all the way to California. The housing stock and neighborhoods are much nicer in the traditional NE suburbs of Philly and NY, with good/better schools and equivalent prices.

Does NY really have nicer neighborhoods and similar pricing? I thought it was more expensive.

- someone who lives in NYC area

NY suburbs are more expensive overall on a per foot basis, especially taking into account property taxes, but there's much more attractive housing stock at all price ranges. If you go further out to say Fairfield county the prices are pretty similar to closer-in DC suburbs like Arlington and Bethesda, but the houses/towns are a lot nicer than what you get an hour outside of DC.

You mean Fairfield in CT? That’s far out there! Don’t think it is really a sustainable commute if you need to get into the city.

Fairfield county, yes. Tons of people commute to the city from there - there are express trains I think from at least Greenwich. It’s like 45 mins to grand central. Not saying it’s great (I said further out…) but it’s a common commute.

You’re right - I was thinking Fairfield the city which is way further out but yes, Greenwich/Stamford are common commutes

I live in Fairfield county (east of Stamford) and I would not say tons of people do the commute. Most families I know work locally, and it is relatively common for one spouse to have a job where they are in the city 1-2 days a week. No one has a job where they’re in the city every day, or where both spouses spend time in the city. Unless you live right on grand central, the commute to the city is brutal. And forget about driving, it’s 2+ hours.

That said, yes it is much nicer than anywhere even close to the DMV, but that’s because northeastern suburbs from Philly to Boston are just much more aesthetically pleasing. I think it’s due to a combination of the DMV being built for government workers of modest incomes, and lax southern zoning restrictions. You want more columns on that fake brick McMansion? You got it, that’s freedom! More four lane roads and strip malls? Yes, businesses love those! Giant county run schools that look like prisons? Perfect, keeps our tax bills low.

Is this a generally accepted belief or just your opinion? Asking since I don’t have a clue. I didn’t know the DMV was considered ugly… I thought suburbs anywhere were just suburbs and have different kinds of houses Depending on where you look.

Not trying to be rude at all but have you been to the northeast? Much more charm and character, tasteful architecture, small towns, beautiful landscaping, fewer strip malls and highways. I’ve heard Chicago suburbs are similar. DC area suburbs are a sprawl of tiny brick boxes and infill garage monsters broken up by sad strip malls on mini highways.

Oh please, comparing suburbs to suburbs there is barely any difference. I grew up in what is considered a nice town in NJ and it was full of split levels and bi levels and so-called McMansions just like here.

Sure, wealthy towns in Westchester and Fairfield County have some beautiful homes. So do wealthy areas here... not as many, but the do.

Disagree! I had previous house hunted on Long Island and in CT/Westchester suburbs. I’m also familiar with the burns in 2 other east coast cities. I couldn’t believe how terrible the housing and how ugly the suburbs are in DC. I ended up moving to another city because I couldn’t spend 2 million dollars on an ugly house near strip malls and a four lane highway. There is a huge difference between DMV suburbs and the ones in NY, Philly, Chicago, Atlanta, Boston etc.

+1 I did the same. I grew up in northern VA and found it so depressing. After traveling a lot in college I saw just how much more pleasant life could be, but was torn because I wanted a government job. I decided to look for government jobs outside of the DMV and found a great one in the northeast. I love it here and am never leaving. Not all suburbs are created equal. On the flip side, if aesthetics and community are not important to you, the DMV has a great balance of cool jobs with relatively low cost of living and short commutes.

I grew up in northern VA too and did not find it depressing at all.What exactly did you hate, just the fact that it was a boring suburb? Or you hated the aesthetics even as a kid?

Don’t get me wrong, I love NYC and the tristate area and agree that there are quaint towns in the NE ther you don’t see around DC. But I really don’t get how you can call an entire large metropolitan area ugly and make it sound like everywhere else is so beautiful. If it were so ugly why do so many people choose to live here and pay a ton for houses. It can’t only be because of the jobs.

DP here. If you don't know what you are missing, then it is not an issue. I have heard people from this area try to go off on stereotypes from other areas, without having so much as visited those areas.

+1

There's no "there" here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A lot of the nicer Baltimore area homes are so tastefully and well done... I wish the same level of care was provided to DC suburbs and both for older and new construction homes. https://www.redfin.com/MD/Baltimore/502-Somerset-Rd-21210/home/11155918

Exactly. That’s gorgeous and actually worth $1.2 million. Here you get a 70s ranch with original green bathrooms.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:A lot of the nicer Baltimore area homes are so tastefully and well done... I wish the same level of care was provided to DC suburbs and both for older and new construction homes. https://www.redfin.com/MD/Baltimore/502-Somerset-Rd-21210/home/11155918

Exactly. That’s gorgeous and actually worth $1.2 million. Here you get a 70s ranch with original green bathrooms.

That looks super nice but also…it’s Baltimore.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:A lot of the nicer Baltimore area homes are so tastefully and well done... I wish the same level of care was provided to DC suburbs and both for older and new construction homes. https://www.redfin.com/MD/Baltimore/502-Somerset-Rd-21210/home/11155918

Exactly. That’s gorgeous and actually worth $1.2 million. Here you get a 70s ranch with original green bathrooms.

That looks super nice but also…it’s Baltimore.

Right. I think the point is even if you have $$$ to spend in a suburb outside of DC a lot of the homes are built/have been flipped with cheap materials and not as tastefully done

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You don't even have to go all the way to California. The housing stock and neighborhoods are much nicer in the traditional NE suburbs of Philly and NY, with good/better schools and equivalent prices.

Does NY really have nicer neighborhoods and similar pricing? I thought it was more expensive.

- someone who lives in NYC area

NY suburbs are more expensive overall on a per foot basis, especially taking into account property taxes, but there's much more attractive housing stock at all price ranges. If you go further out to say Fairfield county the prices are pretty similar to closer-in DC suburbs like Arlington and Bethesda, but the houses/towns are a lot nicer than what you get an hour outside of DC.

You mean Fairfield in CT? That’s far out there! Don’t think it is really a sustainable commute if you need to get into the city.

Fairfield county, yes. Tons of people commute to the city from there - there are express trains I think from at least Greenwich. It’s like 45 mins to grand central. Not saying it’s great (I said further out…) but it’s a common commute.

You’re right - I was thinking Fairfield the city which is way further out but yes, Greenwich/Stamford are common commutes

I live in Fairfield county (east of Stamford) and I would not say tons of people do the commute. Most families I know work locally, and it is relatively common for one spouse to have a job where they are in the city 1-2 days a week. No one has a job where they’re in the city every day, or where both spouses spend time in the city. Unless you live right on grand central, the commute to the city is brutal. And forget about driving, it’s 2+ hours.

That said, yes it is much nicer than anywhere even close to the DMV, but that’s because northeastern suburbs from Philly to Boston are just much more aesthetically pleasing. I think it’s due to a combination of the DMV being built for government workers of modest incomes, and lax southern zoning restrictions. You want more columns on that fake brick McMansion? You got it, that’s freedom! More four lane roads and strip malls? Yes, businesses love those! Giant county run schools that look like prisons? Perfect, keeps our tax bills low.

Is this a generally accepted belief or just your opinion? Asking since I don’t have a clue. I didn’t know the DMV was considered ugly… I thought suburbs anywhere were just suburbs and have different kinds of houses Depending on where you look.

Not trying to be rude at all but have you been to the northeast? Much more charm and character, tasteful architecture, small towns, beautiful landscaping, fewer strip malls and highways. I’ve heard Chicago suburbs are similar. DC area suburbs are a sprawl of tiny brick boxes and infill garage monsters broken up by sad strip malls on mini highways.

Oh please, comparing suburbs to suburbs there is barely any difference. I grew up in what is considered a nice town in NJ and it was full of split levels and bi levels and so-called McMansions just like here.

Sure, wealthy towns in Westchester and Fairfield County have some beautiful homes. So do wealthy areas here... not as many, but the do.

Disagree! I had previous house hunted on Long Island and in CT/Westchester suburbs. I’m also familiar with the burns in 2 other east coast cities. I couldn’t believe how terrible the housing and how ugly the suburbs are in DC. I ended up moving to another city because I couldn’t spend 2 million dollars on an ugly house near strip malls and a four lane highway. There is a huge difference between DMV suburbs and the ones in NY, Philly, Chicago, Atlanta, Boston etc.

Really, you moved to another city because you couldn't find a suburban house that you like? Seems like a weird reason to choose a city.

It wasn’t about finding a house. It was how ugly and unattractive the suburbs are in DC. You only live once and I wanted to live in a prettier area with closer proximity to the outdoors. Earning a lot of money but living in Arlington didn’t seem like how I wanted to spend the next 20 years of my life.

I feel you! I don’t know why people are bashing you for wanting a beautiful place to live.



I feel you.

[Anonymous]

What about parts of Alexandria? I think Old Town, Del Ray, and Rosemont are all very pretty, and they're at least cheaper than most of NW DC.