The PG Pool is racist [MD]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think some of these pro-racist pool responses are contradictory:

1.) PG Pool is a community pool and DC/MoCo are part of the community, too!

2.) PG Pool is a private pool and the community should just leave us alone to let in who want.

3.) It's diverse and a large number of members are from the community!

4.) We don't track demographics or zip codes of members.


The weighting by zip code on the existing waitlist seems like the most reasonable solution for this pool to not be accused of racism going forward.

I don't think #2 reflects any of the comments because it implies race is considered in application when membership is strictly first-com, first-serve, and has been for decades.

No one has said #4, either, and you can't expect to get demographic stats from random posters on DCUM unless one of those random posters also happens to be a board member of the pool. Obviously, the pool has zip codes.

I think weighting the waitlist by zip code could bring down the temperature on this problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, for the 2 adults and 2 kids, the membership fee is $650/year. Given the strong correlation in the DC area of race with income, is that fee something that Black community members can afford?

This isn't some luxury pool, btw. It looks like it barely scrapes by.

Well it's a chicken and egg thing isn't it.

If people like you think Black people can't afford the pool, they won't accept Black people as members.

Also, it's not cheap for most families, even those that can afford it. If you were Black, would it be a priority to pay for a pool with such recent racist history?

Probably not when they can go to the free DC pools instead. Pools need money to function- so you either have public pools subsidized by the local jurisdictions or you have private pools where the costs are covered entirely by its members. It would be great if the PG government would build more pools so there were more accessible and affordable options available for its residents.

And the other PP is right that the long waitlist is a somewhat recent development. By the way some people talk you’d think the pool was entirely comprised of legacy members and black residents have had no opportunity to join.

You know that not all Black people are poor right? And racial disparities are not just about socioeconomic differences?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think some of these pro-racist pool responses are contradictory:

1.) PG Pool is a community pool and DC/MoCo are part of the community, too!

2.) PG Pool is a private pool and the community should just leave us alone to let in who want.

3.) It's diverse and a large number of members are from the community!

4.) We don't track demographics or zip codes of members.


The weighting by zip code on the existing waitlist seems like the most reasonable solution for this pool to not be accused of racism going forward.

I don't think #2 reflects any of the comments because it implies race is considered in application when membership is strictly first-com, first-serve, and has been for decades.

No one has said #4, either, and you can't expect to get demographic stats from random posters on DCUM unless one of those random posters also happens to be a board member of the pool. Obviously, the pool has zip codes.

I think weighting the waitlist by zip code could bring down the temperature on this problem.

Assuming that the people it would exclude were white, which isn't necessarily true, but it's a good idea regardless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think some of these pro-racist pool responses are contradictory:

1.) PG Pool is a community pool and DC/MoCo are part of the community, too!

2.) PG Pool is a private pool and the community should just leave us alone to let in who want.

3.) It's diverse and a large number of members are from the community!

4.) We don't track demographics or zip codes of members.


The weighting by zip code on the existing waitlist seems like the most reasonable solution for this pool to not be accused of racism going forward.

I don't think #2 reflects any of the comments because it implies race is considered in application when membership is strictly first-com, first-serve, and has been for decades.

No one has said #4, either, and you can't expect to get demographic stats from random posters on DCUM unless one of those random posters also happens to be a board member of the pool. Obviously, the pool has zip codes.

I think weighting the waitlist by zip code could bring down the temperature on this problem.

+1 apply weights to the existing waitlist and let those already join be members, easy solution

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, for the 2 adults and 2 kids, the membership fee is $650/year. Given the strong correlation in the DC area of race with income, is that fee something that Black community members can afford?

This isn't some luxury pool, btw. It looks like it barely scrapes by.

Well it's a chicken and egg thing isn't it.

If people like you think Black people can't afford the pool, they won't accept Black people as members.

Also, it's not cheap for most families, even those that can afford it. If you were Black, would it be a priority to pay for a pool with such recent racist history?

Probably not when they can go to the free DC pools instead. Pools need money to function- so you either have public pools subsidized by the local jurisdictions or you have private pools where the costs are covered entirely by its members. It would be great if the PG government would build more pools so there were more accessible and affordable options available for its residents.

And the other PP is right that the long waitlist is a somewhat recent development. By the way some people talk you’d think the pool was entirely comprised of legacy members and black residents have had no opportunity to join.

You know that not all Black people are poor right? And racial disparities are not just about socioeconomic differences?

DP. Of course, generally. But in Mt. Rainier, the lower income families definitely skew toward people of color. The single family homes are pretty evenly distributed among white, black, and latino owners, but a large portion of the Mt. Rainier citizenry is in the large apartment complexes that are almost all black and latino (although more black, I think). I'm sure the apartment dwellers have far less income. BTW, the large apartment complex right next to the PG Pool has its own pool, although I rarely see anyone in it. It doesn't have a life guard, so I don't know if that's cause or effect or irrelevant to usage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, for the 2 adults and 2 kids, the membership fee is $650/year. Given the strong correlation in the DC area of race with income, is that fee something that Black community members can afford?

This isn't some luxury pool, btw. It looks like it barely scrapes by.

Well it's a chicken and egg thing isn't it.

If people like you think Black people can't afford the pool, they won't accept Black people as members.

Also, it's not cheap for most families, even those that can afford it. If you were Black, would it be a priority to pay for a pool with such recent racist history?

Probably not when they can go to the free DC pools instead. Pools need money to function- so you either have public pools subsidized by the local jurisdictions or you have private pools where the costs are covered entirely by its members. It would be great if the PG government would build more pools so there were more accessible and affordable options available for its residents.

And the other PP is right that the long waitlist is a somewhat recent development. By the way some people talk you’d think the pool was entirely comprised of legacy members and black residents have had no opportunity to join.

You know that not all Black people are poor right? And racial disparities are not just about socioeconomic differences?

DP. Of course, generally. But in Mt. Rainier, the lower income families definitely skew toward people of color. The single family homes are pretty evenly distributed among white, black, and latino owners, but a large portion of the Mt. Rainier citizenry is in the large apartment complexes that are almost all black and latino (although more black, I think). I'm sure the apartment dwellers have far less income. BTW, the large apartment complex right next to the PG Pool has its own pool, although I rarely see anyone in it. It doesn't have a life guard, so I don't know if that's cause or effect or irrelevant to usage.

The apartment pool isn't operational most of the time, probably because these are low-income apartments.

It must be sad for all the Black and Brown children in these Mount Rainier apartments to look out the window and watch all of these white kids cool off from the horrific heat in your pay-to-play pool (PG Pool) across the street.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, for the 2 adults and 2 kids, the membership fee is $650/year. Given the strong correlation in the DC area of race with income, is that fee something that Black community members can afford?

This isn't some luxury pool, btw. It looks like it barely scrapes by.

Well it's a chicken and egg thing isn't it.

If people like you think Black people can't afford the pool, they won't accept Black people as members.

Also, it's not cheap for most families, even those that can afford it. If you were Black, would it be a priority to pay for a pool with such recent racist history?

Probably not when they can go to the free DC pools instead. Pools need money to function- so you either have public pools subsidized by the local jurisdictions or you have private pools where the costs are covered entirely by its members. It would be great if the PG government would build more pools so there were more accessible and affordable options available for its residents.

And the other PP is right that the long waitlist is a somewhat recent development. By the way some people talk you’d think the pool was entirely comprised of legacy members and black residents have had no opportunity to join.

You know that not all Black people are poor right? And racial disparities are not just about socioeconomic differences?

DP. Of course, generally. But in Mt. Rainier, the lower income families definitely skew toward people of color. The single family homes are pretty evenly distributed among white, black, and latino owners, but a large portion of the Mt. Rainier citizenry is in the large apartment complexes that are almost all black and latino (although more black, I think). I'm sure the apartment dwellers have far less income. BTW, the large apartment complex right next to the PG Pool has its own pool, although I rarely see anyone in it. It doesn't have a life guard, so I don't know if that's cause or effect or irrelevant to usage.

This. I think if the pool were to weigh membership admission by zip code, which is a good idea, what you would have is membership more reflective of the SFH demographics in Mt. Rainier, which is different than the demographics of Mt. Rainier as a whole.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, for the 2 adults and 2 kids, the membership fee is $650/year. Given the strong correlation in the DC area of race with income, is that fee something that Black community members can afford?

This isn't some luxury pool, btw. It looks like it barely scrapes by.

Well it's a chicken and egg thing isn't it.

If people like you think Black people can't afford the pool, they won't accept Black people as members.

Also, it's not cheap for most families, even those that can afford it. If you were Black, would it be a priority to pay for a pool with such recent racist history?

Probably not when they can go to the free DC pools instead. Pools need money to function- so you either have public pools subsidized by the local jurisdictions or you have private pools where the costs are covered entirely by its members. It would be great if the PG government would build more pools so there were more accessible and affordable options available for its residents.

And the other PP is right that the long waitlist is a somewhat recent development. By the way some people talk you’d think the pool was entirely comprised of legacy members and black residents have had no opportunity to join.

You know that not all Black people are poor right? And racial disparities are not just about socioeconomic differences?

DP. Of course, generally. But in Mt. Rainier, the lower income families definitely skew toward people of color. The single family homes are pretty evenly distributed among white, black, and latino owners, but a large portion of the Mt. Rainier citizenry is in the large apartment complexes that are almost all black and latino (although more black, I think). I'm sure the apartment dwellers have far less income. BTW, the large apartment complex right next to the PG Pool has its own pool, although I rarely see anyone in it. It doesn't have a life guard, so I don't know if that's cause or effect or irrelevant to usage.

The apartment pool isn't operational most of the time, probably because these are low-income apartments.

It must be sad for all the Black and Brown children in these Mount Rainier apartments to look out the window and watch all of these white kids cool off from the horrific heat in your pay-to-play pool (PG Pool) across the street.

How do you know that exactly? Do you live there? Why don’t you raise sone funds to fix it? Otherwise I’m not sure what you are proposing, a PG pool scholarship program for low income kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, for the 2 adults and 2 kids, the membership fee is $650/year. Given the strong correlation in the DC area of race with income, is that fee something that Black community members can afford?

This isn't some luxury pool, btw. It looks like it barely scrapes by.

Well it's a chicken and egg thing isn't it.

If people like you think Black people can't afford the pool, they won't accept Black people as members.

Also, it's not cheap for most families, even those that can afford it. If you were Black, would it be a priority to pay for a pool with such recent racist history?

Probably not when they can go to the free DC pools instead. Pools need money to function- so you either have public pools subsidized by the local jurisdictions or you have private pools where the costs are covered entirely by its members. It would be great if the PG government would build more pools so there were more accessible and affordable options available for its residents.

And the other PP is right that the long waitlist is a somewhat recent development. By the way some people talk you’d think the pool was entirely comprised of legacy members and black residents have had no opportunity to join.

You know that not all Black people are poor right? And racial disparities are not just about socioeconomic differences?

DP. Of course, generally. But in Mt. Rainier, the lower income families definitely skew toward people of color. The single family homes are pretty evenly distributed among white, black, and latino owners, but a large portion of the Mt. Rainier citizenry is in the large apartment complexes that are almost all black and latino (although more black, I think). I'm sure the apartment dwellers have far less income. BTW, the large apartment complex right next to the PG Pool has its own pool, although I rarely see anyone in it. It doesn't have a life guard, so I don't know if that's cause or effect or irrelevant to usage.

The apartment pool isn't operational most of the time, probably because these are low-income apartments.

It must be sad for all the Black and Brown children in these Mount Rainier apartments to look out the window and watch all of these white kids cool off from the horrific heat in your pay-to-play pool (PG Pool) across the street.

How do you know that exactly? Do you live there? Why don’t you raise sone funds to fix it? Otherwise I’m not sure what you are proposing, a PG pool scholarship program for low income kids?

Lol, love how non-Mount Rainier folks speculate on the demographics of this town and who may or may not join to justify why they should keep the locals out. 😂

[Anonymous]

How is PG pool, specifically, different in this (or any) aspect from Adelphi, Cheverly, NW Branch, West Hillandale, or any of the other numerous membership pools in the DMV?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, for the 2 adults and 2 kids, the membership fee is $650/year. Given the strong correlation in the DC area of race with income, is that fee something that Black community members can afford?

This isn't some luxury pool, btw. It looks like it barely scrapes by.

Well it's a chicken and egg thing isn't it.

If people like you think Black people can't afford the pool, they won't accept Black people as members.

Also, it's not cheap for most families, even those that can afford it. If you were Black, would it be a priority to pay for a pool with such recent racist history?

Probably not when they can go to the free DC pools instead. Pools need money to function- so you either have public pools subsidized by the local jurisdictions or you have private pools where the costs are covered entirely by its members. It would be great if the PG government would build more pools so there were more accessible and affordable options available for its residents.

And the other PP is right that the long waitlist is a somewhat recent development. By the way some people talk you’d think the pool was entirely comprised of legacy members and black residents have had no opportunity to join.

You know that not all Black people are poor right? And racial disparities are not just about socioeconomic differences?

DP. Of course, generally. But in Mt. Rainier, the lower income families definitely skew toward people of color. The single family homes are pretty evenly distributed among white, black, and latino owners, but a large portion of the Mt. Rainier citizenry is in the large apartment complexes that are almost all black and latino (although more black, I think). I'm sure the apartment dwellers have far less income. BTW, the large apartment complex right next to the PG Pool has its own pool, although I rarely see anyone in it. It doesn't have a life guard, so I don't know if that's cause or effect or irrelevant to usage.

The apartment pool isn't operational most of the time, probably because these are low-income apartments.

It must be sad for all the Black and Brown children in these Mount Rainier apartments to look out the window and watch all of these white kids cool off from the horrific heat in your pay-to-play pool (PG Pool) across the street.

PP here. Agree. I'm also the PP who joined about 15 years ago. I've always been heartbroken at the thought of the kids in those apartments watching pool members come and go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, for the 2 adults and 2 kids, the membership fee is $650/year. Given the strong correlation in the DC area of race with income, is that fee something that Black community members can afford?

This isn't some luxury pool, btw. It looks like it barely scrapes by.

Well it's a chicken and egg thing isn't it.

If people like you think Black people can't afford the pool, they won't accept Black people as members.

Also, it's not cheap for most families, even those that can afford it. If you were Black, would it be a priority to pay for a pool with such recent racist history?

Probably not when they can go to the free DC pools instead. Pools need money to function- so you either have public pools subsidized by the local jurisdictions or you have private pools where the costs are covered entirely by its members. It would be great if the PG government would build more pools so there were more accessible and affordable options available for its residents.

And the other PP is right that the long waitlist is a somewhat recent development. By the way some people talk you’d think the pool was entirely comprised of legacy members and black residents have had no opportunity to join.

You know that not all Black people are poor right? And racial disparities are not just about socioeconomic differences?

DP. Of course, generally. But in Mt. Rainier, the lower income families definitely skew toward people of color. The single family homes are pretty evenly distributed among white, black, and latino owners, but a large portion of the Mt. Rainier citizenry is in the large apartment complexes that are almost all black and latino (although more black, I think). I'm sure the apartment dwellers have far less income. BTW, the large apartment complex right next to the PG Pool has its own pool, although I rarely see anyone in it. It doesn't have a life guard, so I don't know if that's cause or effect or irrelevant to usage.

The apartment pool isn't operational most of the time, probably because these are low-income apartments.

It must be sad for all the Black and Brown children in these Mount Rainier apartments to look out the window and watch all of these white kids cool off from the horrific heat in your pay-to-play pool (PG Pool) across the street.

How do you know that exactly? Do you live there? Why don’t you raise sone funds to fix it? Otherwise I’m not sure what you are proposing, a PG pool scholarship program for low income kids?

Actually, I do live there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, for the 2 adults and 2 kids, the membership fee is $650/year. Given the strong correlation in the DC area of race with income, is that fee something that Black community members can afford?

This isn't some luxury pool, btw. It looks like it barely scrapes by.

Well it's a chicken and egg thing isn't it.

If people like you think Black people can't afford the pool, they won't accept Black people as members.

Also, it's not cheap for most families, even those that can afford it. If you were Black, would it be a priority to pay for a pool with such recent racist history?

Probably not when they can go to the free DC pools instead. Pools need money to function- so you either have public pools subsidized by the local jurisdictions or you have private pools where the costs are covered entirely by its members. It would be great if the PG government would build more pools so there were more accessible and affordable options available for its residents.

And the other PP is right that the long waitlist is a somewhat recent development. By the way some people talk you’d think the pool was entirely comprised of legacy members and black residents have had no opportunity to join.

You know that not all Black people are poor right? And racial disparities are not just about socioeconomic differences?

DP. Of course, generally. But in Mt. Rainier, the lower income families definitely skew toward people of color. The single family homes are pretty evenly distributed among white, black, and latino owners, but a large portion of the Mt. Rainier citizenry is in the large apartment complexes that are almost all black and latino (although more black, I think). I'm sure the apartment dwellers have far less income. BTW, the large apartment complex right next to the PG Pool has its own pool, although I rarely see anyone in it. It doesn't have a life guard, so I don't know if that's cause or effect or irrelevant to usage.

The apartment pool isn't operational most of the time, probably because these are low-income apartments.

It must be sad for all the Black and Brown children in these Mount Rainier apartments to look out the window and watch all of these white kids cool off from the horrific heat in your pay-to-play pool (PG Pool) across the street.

PP here. Agree. I'm also the PP who joined about 15 years ago. I've always been heartbroken at the thought of the kids in those apartments watching pool members come and go.

+100 Weight the waitlist and do outreach to the apartments.

[Anonymous]

The waitlist is crazy long for PG Pool. They don't ask for your zip code or race when getting on the wait list, so I don't see how it's racist. We are a Caucasian family who actually live in Mt. Rainier, and we were on the list for almost 10 years before we got in. Our neighborhood friends used to bring us in as guests frequently. Both these families that were members before us and would bring us in as guests are POC. They got in before us because they put themselves on the waiting list before we did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, for the 2 adults and 2 kids, the membership fee is $650/year. Given the strong correlation in the DC area of race with income, is that fee something that Black community members can afford?

This isn't some luxury pool, btw. It looks like it barely scrapes by.

Well it's a chicken and egg thing isn't it.

If people like you think Black people can't afford the pool, they won't accept Black people as members.

Also, it's not cheap for most families, even those that can afford it. If you were Black, would it be a priority to pay for a pool with such recent racist history?

Probably not when they can go to the free DC pools instead. Pools need money to function- so you either have public pools subsidized by the local jurisdictions or you have private pools where the costs are covered entirely by its members. It would be great if the PG government would build more pools so there were more accessible and affordable options available for its residents.

And the other PP is right that the long waitlist is a somewhat recent development. By the way some people talk you’d think the pool was entirely comprised of legacy members and black residents have had no opportunity to join.

You know that not all Black people are poor right? And racial disparities are not just about socioeconomic differences?

DP. Of course, generally. But in Mt. Rainier, the lower income families definitely skew toward people of color. The single family homes are pretty evenly distributed among white, black, and latino owners, but a large portion of the Mt. Rainier citizenry is in the large apartment complexes that are almost all black and latino (although more black, I think). I'm sure the apartment dwellers have far less income. BTW, the large apartment complex right next to the PG Pool has its own pool, although I rarely see anyone in it. It doesn't have a life guard, so I don't know if that's cause or effect or irrelevant to usage.

The apartment pool isn't operational most of the time, probably because these are low-income apartments.

It must be sad for all the Black and Brown children in these Mount Rainier apartments to look out the window and watch all of these white kids cool off from the horrific heat in your pay-to-play pool (PG Pool) across the street.

PP here. Agree. I'm also the PP who joined about 15 years ago. I've always been heartbroken at the thought of the kids in those apartments watching pool members come and go.

+100 Weight the waitlist and do outreach to the apartments.

But then there will be poor people at the pool. I don't understand how this helps anything