APS Bell schedule review

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:APS should keep tweaks as minimal as possible while meeting their transportation goals. If they need to make large shifts in time for some schools, limit it to choice schools and programs.

Wholesale flipping around of start times would have far reaching implications beyond the school day, from those that have already been mentioned, to stresses on facility and sports scheduling- pools, fields, gyms, etc. MS and HS should end their school days earlier to give students time to both participate in extracurricular activities and still have time to get homework and studying completed. Not to mention that it allows older siblings to be available to care for younger ones or hold a desperately needed part time job.

Tweaks ok, massive shifts not.

MS students are not old enough to hold jobs, and the system should NOT work around making them childcare for younger siblings, either! That’s way too much for MS students, who are just kids themselves, trying to recover from the pandemic.

Like it or not, lots of families in Arlington depend on their older kids to take care of younger ones because they can’t afford child care. It happens whether the system is geared for it or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:APS should keep tweaks as minimal as possible while meeting their transportation goals. If they need to make large shifts in time for some schools, limit it to choice schools and programs.

Wholesale flipping around of start times would have far reaching implications beyond the school day, from those that have already been mentioned, to stresses on facility and sports scheduling- pools, fields, gyms, etc. MS and HS should end their school days earlier to give students time to both participate in extracurricular activities and still have time to get homework and studying completed. Not to mention that it allows older siblings to be available to care for younger ones or hold a desperately needed part time job.

Tweaks ok, massive shifts not.

I like how you just completely ignore the research on physical and mental health impact to teenagers of early school start times (especially the current middle school start time). I guess their needs don’t deserve consideration in your analysis?

Oh, I considered it. I also considered that teenagers could get plenty of sleep if they go to bed earlier. There’s nothing magical about later school start times- it’s about getting enough sleep, whether that happens at night or in the morning. I managed early school starts, as did all my schoolmates, my husband and his schoolmates, my kids currently, along with students all around the world. The problem is bad sleep hygiene, not school start times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:APS should keep tweaks as minimal as possible while meeting their transportation goals. If they need to make large shifts in time for some schools, limit it to choice schools and programs.

Wholesale flipping around of start times would have far reaching implications beyond the school day, from those that have already been mentioned, to stresses on facility and sports scheduling- pools, fields, gyms, etc. MS and HS should end their school days earlier to give students time to both participate in extracurricular activities and still have time to get homework and studying completed. Not to mention that it allows older siblings to be available to care for younger ones or hold a desperately needed part time job.

Tweaks ok, massive shifts not.

I like how you just completely ignore the research on physical and mental health impact to teenagers of early school start times (especially the current middle school start time). I guess their needs don’t deserve consideration in your analysis?

Oh, I considered it. I also considered that teenagers could get plenty of sleep if they go to bed earlier. There’s nothing magical about later school start times- it’s about getting enough sleep, whether that happens at night or in the morning. I managed early school starts, as did all my schoolmates, my husband and his schoolmates, my kids currently, along with students all around the world. The problem is bad sleep hygiene, not school start times.

Essentially kids would have to eliminate afterschool activities, jobs and child care they need to provide for their siblings to be able to go to bed earlier and address all of their homework. The way it is now, kids involved in so many activities, work, childcare, excess homework, something has to give. In this area we put so much pressure on these kids so what gives is sleep. They suffer buy outwardly it looks like they’re doing it all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:APS should keep tweaks as minimal as possible while meeting their transportation goals. If they need to make large shifts in time for some schools, limit it to choice schools and programs.

Wholesale flipping around of start times would have far reaching implications beyond the school day, from those that have already been mentioned, to stresses on facility and sports scheduling- pools, fields, gyms, etc. MS and HS should end their school days earlier to give students time to both participate in extracurricular activities and still have time to get homework and studying completed. Not to mention that it allows older siblings to be available to care for younger ones or hold a desperately needed part time job.

Tweaks ok, massive shifts not.

I like how you just completely ignore the research on physical and mental health impact to teenagers of early school start times (especially the current middle school start time). I guess their needs don’t deserve consideration in your analysis?

Oh, I considered it. I also considered that teenagers could get plenty of sleep if they go to bed earlier. There’s nothing magical about later school start times- it’s about getting enough sleep, whether that happens at night or in the morning. I managed early school starts, as did all my schoolmates, my husband and his schoolmates, my kids currently, along with students all around the world. The problem is bad sleep hygiene, not school start times.

In other words, you are ignoring the research on teen sleep cycles that demonstrates “go to bed earlier” is not an effective strategy at that age. Maybe it works with your 6 yo, but it won’t ten years from now when they’re 16.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t like that each option extends the total time for my HS student.

By 13 mins. Gee, what an impact in the grand scheme of things. Just goes to show someone at EPS will always find something to complain about.

Getting out later really messes things up for older kids who have jobs and activities after school. It does impact things for plenty of people, just not you. Just goes to show how someone will always find things to discredit other people's concerns.

13 minutes. Activities will be shifted due to an entire system of schools starting later. Every high school kid will be in the same situation. It's not as if they are shifting the day to an hour later.

One scenario doesn't have them getting out until 3:35. It's ridiculous!

What's so ridiculous about 3:35? It's only a half an hour and it actually puts it closer to the start time of some after-school activities that don't start until 4:00, which means less wasted/awkward time between end of school and start of activity

When you have a 3 or 4 hour shift/practice that begins right after school, you need time to get there, change and have a snack.

I assume you must mean off-site job or practice for non-school sport? Any after-school practice that starts right after school would obviously not start until school is out.
But you know what? The schedule that works for you may not be so convenient for a bunch of other people, and vice versa.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:APS should keep tweaks as minimal as possible while meeting their transportation goals. If they need to make large shifts in time for some schools, limit it to choice schools and programs.

Wholesale flipping around of start times would have far reaching implications beyond the school day, from those that have already been mentioned, to stresses on facility and sports scheduling- pools, fields, gyms, etc. MS and HS should end their school days earlier to give students time to both participate in extracurricular activities and still have time to get homework and studying completed. Not to mention that it allows older siblings to be available to care for younger ones or hold a desperately needed part time job.

Tweaks ok, massive shifts not.

I agree with this. My middle schooler may not enjoy getting up early, but he enjoys school ending early enough so that he can do an after school activity at school, and still make it to his non-school sports practice/have time for homework. If transportation problems are the real issue, let’s focus on that.

That's exactly what APS is focusing on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:APS should keep tweaks as minimal as possible while meeting their transportation goals. If they need to make large shifts in time for some schools, limit it to choice schools and programs.

Wholesale flipping around of start times would have far reaching implications beyond the school day, from those that have already been mentioned, to stresses on facility and sports scheduling- pools, fields, gyms, etc. MS and HS should end their school days earlier to give students time to both participate in extracurricular activities and still have time to get homework and studying completed. Not to mention that it allows older siblings to be available to care for younger ones or hold a desperately needed part time job.

Tweaks ok, massive shifts not.

MS students are not old enough to hold jobs, and the system should NOT work around making them childcare for younger siblings, either! That’s way too much for MS students, who are just kids themselves, trying to recover from the pandemic.

Like it or not, lots of families in Arlington depend on their older kids to take care of younger ones because they can’t afford child care. It happens whether the system is geared for it or not.

It isn't APS' responsibility to determine and accommodate families' schedules. It is APS' responsibility to run the best quality, most efficient system it can provide. As you say, whether the system is geared for it or not, families depend on various things.....and therefore families have to figure it out according to how the system is "geared." Not the other way around. Because tailor-gearing for the needs of 23,000 students is not possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:APS should keep tweaks as minimal as possible while meeting their transportation goals. If they need to make large shifts in time for some schools, limit it to choice schools and programs.

Wholesale flipping around of start times would have far reaching implications beyond the school day, from those that have already been mentioned, to stresses on facility and sports scheduling- pools, fields, gyms, etc. MS and HS should end their school days earlier to give students time to both participate in extracurricular activities and still have time to get homework and studying completed. Not to mention that it allows older siblings to be available to care for younger ones or hold a desperately needed part time job.

Tweaks ok, massive shifts not.

I like how you just completely ignore the research on physical and mental health impact to teenagers of early school start times (especially the current middle school start time). I guess their needs don’t deserve consideration in your analysis?

Oh, I considered it. I also considered that teenagers could get plenty of sleep if they go to bed earlier. There’s nothing magical about later school start times- it’s about getting enough sleep, whether that happens at night or in the morning. I managed early school starts, as did all my schoolmates, my husband and his schoolmates, my kids currently, along with students all around the world. The problem is bad sleep hygiene, not school start times.

The way things work in highly-populated areas today, I disagree. If your school starts at 7:50 but your soccer game isn't until 8:00 pm, that's not just a matter of irresponsibly getting to bed on time to make sure you get sufficient sleep. No, not everyone is involved in sports and such. No, you don't have to participate in extracurriculars. BUt extracurriculars - especially physical ones - are increasingly important for multiple reasons: social connections, developing social skills, and most importantly for physical health in a society where even kids are mostly sedentary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t like that each option extends the total time for my HS student.

By 13 mins. Gee, what an impact in the grand scheme of things. Just goes to show someone at EPS will always find something to complain about.

Getting out later really messes things up for older kids who have jobs and activities after school. It does impact things for plenty of people, just not you. Just goes to show how someone will always find things to discredit other people's concerns.

13 minutes. Activities will be shifted due to an entire system of schools starting later. Every high school kid will be in the same situation. It's not as if they are shifting the day to an hour later.

One scenario doesn't have them getting out until 3:35. It's ridiculous!

What's so ridiculous about 3:35? It's only a half an hour and it actually puts it closer to the start time of some after-school activities that don't start until 4:00, which means less wasted/awkward time between end of school and start of activity

.

If the schools end time changes, so will activity start times in Arlington. Geez. Unless what you’re really saying is that no changes should be made so you have time to drive your kid to travel sports conditioning in FFX on time. Eff that noise.

When you have a 3 or 4 hour shift/practice that begins right after school, you need time to get there, change and have a snack.

3:35 seems like a perfectly reasonable school end time to me. I don't know about other folks, but spouse and I work regularly until 5:30 - 6PM. We have always selected kids activities with a later start time, or which don't require significant driving in traffic. I don't know many FT working people who can get off at 3 on a regular basis to schlep middle or early high school kids across town for a 4PM practice start. And why is Larla practicing for 3-4 hours? Is she going to the Olympics?

Gymnasts regularly practice between 3-4 hours at a time. That's standard. The Olympians do much more. :p

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:APS should keep tweaks as minimal as possible while meeting their transportation goals. If they need to make large shifts in time for some schools, limit it to choice schools and programs.

Wholesale flipping around of start times would have far reaching implications beyond the school day, from those that have already been mentioned, to stresses on facility and sports scheduling- pools, fields, gyms, etc. MS and HS should end their school days earlier to give students time to both participate in extracurricular activities and still have time to get homework and studying completed. Not to mention that it allows older siblings to be available to care for younger ones or hold a desperately needed part time job.

Tweaks ok, massive shifts not.

I like how you just completely ignore the research on physical and mental health impact to teenagers of early school start times (especially the current middle school start time). I guess their needs don’t deserve consideration in your analysis?

Oh, I considered it. I also considered that teenagers could get plenty of sleep if they go to bed earlier. There’s nothing magical about later school start times- it’s about getting enough sleep, whether that happens at night or in the morning. I managed early school starts, as did all my schoolmates, my husband and his schoolmates, my kids currently, along with students all around the world. The problem is bad sleep hygiene, not school start times.

Essentially kids would have to eliminate afterschool activities, jobs and child care they need to provide for their siblings to be able to go to bed earlier and address all of their homework. The way it is now, kids involved in so many activities, work, childcare, excess homework, something has to give. In this area we put so much pressure on these kids so what gives is sleep. They suffer buy outwardly it looks like they’re doing it all.

DP. What you seem to not be seeing is the fact that kids in those jobs and childcare roles are already giving up activities. You talk like all kids are doing all things - except the poor kids are doing even more because they have both younger siblings and jobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t like that each option extends the total time for my HS student.

By 13 mins. Gee, what an impact in the grand scheme of things. Just goes to show someone at EPS will always find something to complain about.

Getting out later really messes things up for older kids who have jobs and activities after school. It does impact things for plenty of people, just not you. Just goes to show how someone will always find things to discredit other people's concerns.

13 minutes. Activities will be shifted due to an entire system of schools starting later. Every high school kid will be in the same situation. It's not as if they are shifting the day to an hour later.

One scenario doesn't have them getting out until 3:35. It's ridiculous!

What's so ridiculous about 3:35? It's only a half an hour and it actually puts it closer to the start time of some after-school activities that don't start until 4:00, which means less wasted/awkward time between end of school and start of activity

.

If the schools end time changes, so will activity start times in Arlington. Geez. Unless what you’re really saying is that no changes should be made so you have time to drive your kid to travel sports conditioning in FFX on time. Eff that noise.

When you have a 3 or 4 hour shift/practice that begins right after school, you need time to get there, change and have a snack.

3:35 seems like a perfectly reasonable school end time to me. I don't know about other folks, but spouse and I work regularly until 5:30 - 6PM. We have always selected kids activities with a later start time, or which don't require significant driving in traffic. I don't know many FT working people who can get off at 3 on a regular basis to schlep middle or early high school kids across town for a 4PM practice start. And why is Larla practicing for 3-4 hours? Is she going to the Olympics?

Gymnasts regularly practice between 3-4 hours at a time. That's standard. The Olympians do much more. :p

Then the gymnasts will start practice a half an hour later and end a half an hour later. The Olympians will continue to put in a few hours before school and more after school - but won't have to get up at 4 am to do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t like that each option extends the total time for my HS student.

By 13 mins. Gee, what an impact in the grand scheme of things. Just goes to show someone at EPS will always find something to complain about.

Getting out later really messes things up for older kids who have jobs and activities after school. It does impact things for plenty of people, just not you. Just goes to show how someone will always find things to discredit other people's concerns.

13 minutes. Activities will be shifted due to an entire system of schools starting later. Every high school kid will be in the same situation. It's not as if they are shifting the day to an hour later.

One scenario doesn't have them getting out until 3:35. It's ridiculous!

What's so ridiculous about 3:35? It's only a half an hour and it actually puts it closer to the start time of some after-school activities that don't start until 4:00, which means less wasted/awkward time between end of school and start of activity

.

If the schools end time changes, so will activity start times in Arlington. Geez. Unless what you’re really saying is that no changes should be made so you have time to drive your kid to travel sports conditioning in FFX on time. Eff that noise.

When you have a 3 or 4 hour shift/practice that begins right after school, you need time to get there, change and have a snack.

3:35 seems like a perfectly reasonable school end time to me. I don't know about other folks, but spouse and I work regularly until 5:30 - 6PM. We have always selected kids activities with a later start time, or which don't require significant driving in traffic. I don't know many FT working people who can get off at 3 on a regular basis to schlep middle or early high school kids across town for a 4PM practice start. And why is Larla practicing for 3-4 hours? Is she going to the Olympics?

Gymnasts regularly practice between 3-4 hours at a time. That's standard. The Olympians do much more. :p

Well then clearly, every other family in Arlington should work their schedules around the gymnastics kids who CHOOSE to involve themselves in an optional time-consuming activity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:APS should keep tweaks as minimal as possible while meeting their transportation goals. If they need to make large shifts in time for some schools, limit it to choice schools and programs.

Wholesale flipping around of start times would have far reaching implications beyond the school day, from those that have already been mentioned, to stresses on facility and sports scheduling- pools, fields, gyms, etc. MS and HS should end their school days earlier to give students time to both participate in extracurricular activities and still have time to get homework and studying completed. Not to mention that it allows older siblings to be available to care for younger ones or hold a desperately needed part time job.

Tweaks ok, massive shifts not.

MS students are not old enough to hold jobs, and the system should NOT work around making them childcare for younger siblings, either! That’s way too much for MS students, who are just kids themselves, trying to recover from the pandemic.

Like it or not, lots of families in Arlington depend on their older kids to take care of younger ones because they can’t afford child care. It happens whether the system is geared for it or not.

It isn't APS' responsibility to determine and accommodate families' schedules. It is APS' responsibility to run the best quality, most efficient system it can provide. As you say, whether the system is geared for it or not, families depend on various things.....and therefore families have to figure it out according to how the system is "geared." Not the other way around. Because tailor-gearing for the needs of 23,000 students is not possible.

And also they need to do what’s developmentally appropriate, and not most convenient for families or what everyone has gotten used to. Families in other areas somehow figured it out when they made shifts, so can we in Arlington. School-provided aftercare fees are based on a sliding scale. Truly needy families will have options other than an older sibling caring for younger ones.

This change has been desired for a long time, and advocacy is finally working. If a later MS/HS start and end time was really a dealbreaker, so many families wouldn’t be applying to HB, or to the ES option programs that had/have the earlier start time. They have the data, guys! They know.

[Anonymous]

One of my main beefs with this survey is it doesn't tell us WHAT the savings are. If I could see a dollar value with each option (money saved over current costs) that may sway me. But just taking their word for it does give me pause. Since they apparently can't even write a decent survey, something it seems a high schooler could do pretty well, how are they comparing the costs and are they being realistic?

I don't mind changing the bell schedules, if it MAKES SENSE and saves money. I am not interested in changing the bell schedules and causing activity upheaval for no good reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:APS should keep tweaks as minimal as possible while meeting their transportation goals. If they need to make large shifts in time for some schools, limit it to choice schools and programs.

Wholesale flipping around of start times would have far reaching implications beyond the school day, from those that have already been mentioned, to stresses on facility and sports scheduling- pools, fields, gyms, etc. MS and HS should end their school days earlier to give students time to both participate in extracurricular activities and still have time to get homework and studying completed. Not to mention that it allows older siblings to be available to care for younger ones or hold a desperately needed part time job.

Tweaks ok, massive shifts not.

I like how you just completely ignore the research on physical and mental health impact to teenagers of early school start times (especially the current middle school start time). I guess their needs don’t deserve consideration in your analysis?

Oh, I considered it. I also considered that teenagers could get plenty of sleep if they go to bed earlier. There’s nothing magical about later school start times- it’s about getting enough sleep, whether that happens at night or in the morning. I managed early school starts, as did all my schoolmates, my husband and his schoolmates, my kids currently, along with students all around the world. The problem is bad sleep hygiene, not school start times.

Essentially kids would have to eliminate afterschool activities, jobs and child care they need to provide for their siblings to be able to go to bed earlier and address all of their homework. The way it is now, kids involved in so many activities, work, childcare, excess homework, something has to give. In this area we put so much pressure on these kids so what gives is sleep. They suffer buy outwardly it looks like they’re doing it all.

DP. What you seem to not be seeing is the fact that kids in those jobs and childcare roles are already giving up activities. You talk like all kids are doing all things - except the poor kids are doing even more because they have both younger siblings and jobs.

Always trotting out the poor kids to suit your argument. FFS. They can still take on jobs. Those jobs HS kids can do are all shift work, so everything will just shift. They’re only taking about a small change for HS kids anyway.