Designer and mark up norms

[Anonymous]

We are working with a designer for a small bathroom Reno. The design is great. Have a few questions about one item no big deal. We were charged an hourly rate for the design. We have a quote from a contractor she works with regularly.

Here are my questions. She charges hourly and there is a clear mark up on the items recommended. Is it normal to do both? The mark up seems pretty steep. There is also a charge for ordering, storing and delivering the product when needed. So that is not built into the mark up or hourly fee. Is this normal too?

The items are not itemized and amounts are not listed. When we worked with a designer a few years ago we got an itemized list like blue tile costs this much per sq ft and we need to purchase x amount so cost is y. This time all the tile is lumped together with no amounts or pricing and just a final amount. Is this common?

The contractor agreement seems more like an estimate with some things giving a $300 range for work like install door cost $300-$500. There is one large installation that’s says TBD after the rest of the time work is done. We have no idea what the range even is. I have asked for at least a range here. There is nothing about payment schedule or work timelines. The Contractor does have very good reviews.

Can someone just guide us on the Normal post covid. Our last Reno was pre covid and I know prices have risen. We have paid the designer for work to date for the design. My partner wants to buy and store the items ourselves since the project is small to avoid the mark up and storage and purchasing costs. Idk if the designer is going to balk or what.

Any advice appreciated.

[Anonymous]

We just did a bathroom, and this was not how our designer did it. She said we needed x sq feet of tile at y cost. I looked up the tile myself and found it cheaper elsewhere, but ended up just letting her deal with it. I’m sure she gets a discount from the tile place and charged us msrp.
Overall, I get like the design was pretty useless for a bathroom. I think we paid her around $8,000, and I feel like the designers at the tile place could have helped me with tile and the contractor could have recommended countertops and the glass.
So, no, i don’t think it’s normal. I think your designer is likely trying to rip you off.

[Anonymous]

That’s crazy. We got a discount passed on from the contractor. Run

[Anonymous]

Yes, it’s normal to charge for ordering, storing, and delivery. Why wouldn’t it be? It’s their time and storage and truck and delivery people.

She should be upfront with upcharging. But, no a client doesn’t need to know how much tile is being purchased. If she’s doing it, it’s on her to get it right. Most high end clients don’t ask for such details.

If the proposal has blanks or price ranges (unless the latter is detailed for what reason), that’s a problem.

[Anonymous]

pp here.you really need to have a convo with her. Ask what’s included in a 15% markup or whatever it is she’s charging you.

[Anonymous]

People it’s not normal. They get pricing to the trade which they should pass on to you.

We run into one of these, Fox Design. We fired her and never looked back. She steered us to worse quality stuff and wasted our time. Her enthusiasm waned immediately when we went to a top manufacturer directly and obtained 40% discount. She then said we were stressing her out 😂

There are so many hacks out there. They get an associates degree and all they can tell you is that kitchen should work in a triangle (thanks the 1980s design). They don’t know anything about the building science and don’t read AD or any of the modern magazines.

If your designer can’t use CAD or asvanced software, run. If they upcharge you or take you to only their suppliers, run. There are great ones out there and they aren’t cheap. But these guys won’t help you. You’re better off using a top notch supplier and their free design service and working with a contractor

[Anonymous]

PP here one more thing on storing. You’d be better of storing in your own storage space if a space in the house isn’t an option.

Deliveries can be scheduled properly. If they charge you for storage they aren’t incentivized to schedule them properly.

Let’s say storage is needed. These warehouses are notorious for having furniture go moldy and by the time it’s in your house it’s a hazard. Take charge. You are better off paying for a storage unit $400-$500 a month with climate control and no others’ mold and mice on your furniture and other items.

This is a racket; don’t fall for it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it’s normal to charge for ordering, storing, and delivery. Why wouldn’t it be? It’s their time and storage and truck and delivery people.

OP here. I agree she should not order, store or deliver for free. The question is it normal to charge hourly for this and a mark up on the product and then a flat rate listed for ordering and storing? Is a flat rate the custom or does the up charge include this? Etc. I’m far from expecting any work for free.

I love the dig about high end clients. Maybe we just are not high end enough to be ok with not knowing where thousands of dollars are going and that’s ok. Maybe we just take the design and move on. That is what we are trying to ascertain here.

[Anonymous]

Keeping trade discounts is a potential conflict of interest

Consider this scenario…

You are a designer that keeps trade discounts to yourself and doesn’t pass them on to your clients.

You are now choosing between two sofas for your client’s project:

the first sofa is the best option - it’s the right shape, size and fabric and it would be perfect! It is $10,000, but you only get a 10% trade discount with that supplier (so you only make $1,000 on that recommendation)

the second sofa is OK and it will still work in the scheme but it’s not as perfect as the first one. But this one costs $15,000 and you get a 20% discount with that supplier (i.e. you’ll make $3,000 on this recommendation)

As a designer that keeps your trade discounts, which sofa do you end up recommending to your client?

I’m sure you’ll say you will choose what is in the best interests of your client, but I call bullshit on this.

https://www.thelittledesigncorner.com/blog/benefits-of-sharing-trade-discounts

[Anonymous]

OP, it is not ok.

You already have the design you paid for and you are in charge. Believe people when they show you who they are. Walk away, they lured you in with by the hour to make money on the choices. They get trade discount of 10%-40% and they on top of that want 15% off the retail. Come on!

There are many designers. Having a firm no on not up charging and even on not being passed the trade discount will help you get to the shortlist of really good designers.

Store your own stuff. If you do that, you’ll see how deliveries get scheduled properly and you don’t end up storing much.

Have several quality checks and don’t pay upfront.

Know when you’re being hustled. You are being hustled.

[Anonymous]

It’s potentially unethical and unlawful to keep your trade discounts

Whether it is unethical or unlawful for you to keep your trade discounts depends on various factors, including the laws and regulations in the jurisdiction in which you operate as well as your professional code of conduct and ethical guidelines. So make sure you know the law!

In some cases, keeping trade discounts may also be considered unethical or a violation of professional standards, particularly if you are not being transparent with your clients about the discounts available and the true costs associated with the project.

(The same source as above)

[Anonymous]

The designer kept pushing us to China-made inferior products. And we could t figure it out b/c we specified brands upfront. Then we realized they were keeping the rebate.needless to say fired them and bought what we wanted direct and even on Amazon at 0% over 24 months (most German faucets etc sold there for way cheaper and delivered immediately)

[Anonymous]

The “trade discount” used to be more like retailing. A store gets a wholesale price and then charges you retail. Designers WERE the store. They still are, for some manufacturers. The manufacturers don’t deal with the end customer, they just have designers with accounts who buy wholesale and resell. So the designer isn’t “keeping” the trade discount. It’s just like Target charges me more for Tide than they buy it for.

At this point though so many things are sold directly and there’s so much variation in the difference between how designers decide to do things that imo all that matters is that they’re transparent about it and that you’re okay with it.

Realistically if OP wants the warehousing and delivery, they could ask if they can source their own tile but the designer might say no to the other services. It doesn’t really matter in the end if they do a retail markup on the product or charge more for the handling or whatever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, it is not ok.

You already have the design you paid for and you are in charge. Believe people when they show you who they are. Walk away, they lured you in with by the hour to make money on the choices. They get trade discount of 10%-40% and they on top of that want 15% off the retail. Come on!

There are many designers. Having a firm no on not up charging and even on not being passed the trade discount will help you get to the shortlist of really good designers.

Store your own stuff. If you do that, you’ll see how deliveries get scheduled properly and you don’t end up storing much.

Have several quality checks and don’t pay upfront.

Know when you’re being hustled. You are being hustled.

You’re just telling the OP to spend a lot of their own time and effort. What’s the difference?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That’s crazy. We got a discount passed on from the contractor. Run

A contractor is not a designer.