Algebra 2 HN and Algebra 2 differences

[Anonymous]

Algebra 2 HN and Algebra 2 differences what are the big differences?

[Anonymous]

I wrote a handout on this for our curriculum night. I can copy the text of it tomorrow when I’m back at my desk. That said, it will vary significantly by the school and teachers.

In short at my school: honors moves significantly faster and requires students to go beyond what is explicitly shown in class. For example:

Regular A2 will be shown various types of polynomials and how to factor them. The test will be an assortment of polynomials and students will be asked to factor them. A2H will get the same instruction, but then will be given something like 4x^3-2x^2-kx+1 and asked to find a value of k that makes it factor able with using the grouping method.

It also includes at least one or two extra standards/skills per unit. In my regular A2 class, I have time to spend a day reviewing prerequisite skills. In honors, students need to already have mastered (and retained) all the material from prior coursework, because the review days are taken up with extension topics. For example:

Both classes solved systems of quadratic equations. An algebra 1 standard is systems of linear equations. In A2 I spent time (maybe 1/2 block) reviewing simplistic systems that didn’t require much manipulation (terms dropped out easily) before shifting into more difficult examples with new content. After we covered all 3 methods with quadratics, I had a full day devoted to practicing all methods. In honors, we spent a 5 minute warm up reviewing what a system is, and then dove right into the new stuff, because in addition to quadratics we had to cover systems where x is a function of y (sideways parabolas), and all graphing and solving was expected to be done by hand. In gen ed, students were able to use calculators to graph equations and find intersections to check work or find ordered pairs for graphing.

If you are in an AP school, both classes are a stepping stone to precalc. You can think of gen ed as the AB version of calc and honors as BC. 75% of the class is the same, but that extra 25% really increases the pace for honors.

If you are at an IB school, a successful gen ed algebra 2 student will struggle with the rigor expected in IB analysis, but should be fine with IB applications. If analysis is desired, I would make the jump to honors.

[Anonymous]

Pp again. I want to strongly caution that this is one school’s implementation and I don’t speak for all of them. Your best bet is to have your student talk to their current math teacher for their recommendation and if they are already in HS track down whoever teaches honors algebra 2 this year and ask them how it differs at their school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wrote a handout on this for our curriculum night. I can copy the text of it tomorrow when I’m back at my desk. That said, it will vary significantly by the school and teachers.

In short at my school: honors moves significantly faster and requires students to go beyond what is explicitly shown in class. For example:

Regular A2 will be shown various types of polynomials and how to factor them. The test will be an assortment of polynomials and students will be asked to factor them. A2H will get the same instruction, but then will be given something like 4x^3-2x^2-kx+1 and asked to find a value of k that makes it factor able with using the grouping method.

It also includes at least one or two extra standards/skills per unit. In my regular A2 class, I have time to spend a day reviewing prerequisite skills. In honors, students need to already have mastered (and retained) all the material from prior coursework, because the review days are taken up with extension topics. For example:

Both classes solved systems of quadratic equations. An algebra 1 standard is systems of linear equations. In A2 I spent time (maybe 1/2 block) reviewing simplistic systems that didn’t require much manipulation (terms dropped out easily) before shifting into more difficult examples with new content. After we covered all 3 methods with quadratics, I had a full day devoted to practicing all methods. In honors, we spent a 5 minute warm up reviewing what a system is, and then dove right into the new stuff, because in addition to quadratics we had to cover systems where x is a function of y (sideways parabolas), and all graphing and solving was expected to be done by hand. In gen ed, students were able to use calculators to graph equations and find intersections to check work or find ordered pairs for graphing.

If you are in an AP school, both classes are a stepping stone to precalc. You can think of gen ed as the AB version of calc and honors as BC. 75% of the class is the same, but that extra 25% really increases the pace for honors.

If you are at an IB school, a successful gen ed algebra 2 student will struggle with the rigor expected in IB analysis, but should be fine with IB applications. If analysis is desired, I would make the jump to honors.

I am not the OP but I have a child currently in geometry so this information is beyond helpful. Thank you so much for taking the time to explain the nuances between the two classes!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wrote a handout on this for our curriculum night. I can copy the text of it tomorrow when I’m back at my desk. That said, it will vary significantly by the school and teachers.

In short at my school: honors moves significantly faster and requires students to go beyond what is explicitly shown in class. For example:

Regular A2 will be shown various types of polynomials and how to factor them. The test will be an assortment of polynomials and students will be asked to factor them. A2H will get the same instruction, but then will be given something like 4x^3-2x^2-kx+1 and asked to find a value of k that makes it factor able with using the grouping method.

It also includes at least one or two extra standards/skills per unit. In my regular A2 class, I have time to spend a day reviewing prerequisite skills. In honors, students need to already have mastered (and retained) all the material from prior coursework, because the review days are taken up with extension topics. For example:

Both classes solved systems of quadratic equations. An algebra 1 standard is systems of linear equations. In A2 I spent time (maybe 1/2 block) reviewing simplistic systems that didn’t require much manipulation (terms dropped out easily) before shifting into more difficult examples with new content. After we covered all 3 methods with quadratics, I had a full day devoted to practicing all methods. In honors, we spent a 5 minute warm up reviewing what a system is, and then dove right into the new stuff, because in addition to quadratics we had to cover systems where x is a function of y (sideways parabolas), and all graphing and solving was expected to be done by hand. In gen ed, students were able to use calculators to graph equations and find intersections to check work or find ordered pairs for graphing.

If you are in an AP school, both classes are a stepping stone to precalc. You can think of gen ed as the AB version of calc and honors as BC. 75% of the class is the same, but that extra 25% really increases the pace for honors.

If you are at an IB school, a successful gen ed algebra 2 student will struggle with the rigor expected in IB analysis, but should be fine with IB applications. If analysis is desired, I would make the jump to honors.

This is so helpful, thank you for taking the time to write this out. I have a child who is currently in Geometry HN and is doing fine but not great (solid B average). They are not planning to pursue a college degree that is super math heavy (ie no engineering or hard sciences). Based on teacher feedback (teacher said my child could go either way - may have a tough time in HN Alg 2, but may not feel challenged in Reg) -- we suggested our kid drop down to regular Algebra 2 and build a solid foundation instead of possibly being overwhelmed in HN. Since they don't really NEED to get to BC Calc for future plans, this seemed like the smarter move. Especially since my child will take HN or AP in all other major subject areas and will likely have more time to focus on those with a less rigorous math course. Anything we're not thinking of?

[Anonymous]

Regular Alg 2 is more of prep for Calc with Applications (not a great name for the class) than high scoring Calc AB.

Regular Alg 2 is largely where the 40% of students who fail or barely pass the Calc AB test come from.

Calc BC isn't harder material than AB, it's just more material in the same time frame. Honors early math isn't much direct help for that, but it selects for students who have deeper understanding and so can move faster. (For a lower level example, Imagine being in Prealgebra knowing the efficient, standard algorithm for long multiplication, vs breaking apart 87*23 to (80+7)*(20+3) and expanding it out totally explicitly using an area model diagram and the basic rule from 4th grade, and still being shaky on it).

As explained by the big PP, regular Alg 2 is for spoon-feeding and regurgitating formulas without fully understanding them, while Honors Alg 2 is for understanding the ideas and applying them to solve problems in different mathematical situations.


"Honors B vs non-honors A" is always a tough call. It partly depends on if the student is getting a comfortable B and just needs more time and practice for the advanced ideas to sink in, or if they are struggling and working really hard to get that B, and it's unsustainable. Also depends on whether Alg 1 was a struggle or an easy A, and if the student still remembers it well after a year of geometry.

Being bored in an easier class is a disservice. I know GPA is the false god we all lie prostrate to, but a more challenging class gives the *option* to grow and learn more, while the basic class holds you back unless you challenge yourself privately.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

"Honors B vs non-honors A" is always a tough call. It partly depends on if the student is getting a comfortable B and just needs more time and practice for the advanced ideas to sink in, or if they are struggling and working really hard to get that B, and it's unsustainable. Also depends on whether Alg 1 was a struggle or an easy A, and if the student still remembers it well after a year of geometry.

Being bored in an easier class is a disservice. I know GPA is the false god we all lie prostrate to, but a more challenging class gives the *option* to grow and learn more, while the basic class holds you back unless you challenge yourself privately.

This is exactly the dilemma we're facing. My child had an easy A in Honors Algebra 1 (taught in 8th grade). Their initial plan was to take Honors Algebra 2 because they think their struggle is with Geometry specifically, not with the level of the class. Has a solid B in Honors Geometry. Doesn't seem to be working all that hard, but what they're making mistakes on ARE the application of the material. But, I hear your point that not even being exposed to the application of the material is a big negative and probably a disservice.

The whole GPA situation is also tricky. That Honors B is pulling my child's GPA down, while a regular A would give it a little boost. I'm not sure what the colleges value more -- a lower GPA with harder classes taken, or just a higher GPA, when most classes are rigorous and just the math class isn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wrote a handout on this for our curriculum night. I can copy the text of it tomorrow when I’m back at my desk. That said, it will vary significantly by the school and teachers.

In short at my school: honors moves significantly faster and requires students to go beyond what is explicitly shown in class. For example:

Regular A2 will be shown various types of polynomials and how to factor them. The test will be an assortment of polynomials and students will be asked to factor them. A2H will get the same instruction, but then will be given something like 4x^3-2x^2-kx+1 and asked to find a value of k that makes it factor able with using the grouping method.

It also includes at least one or two extra standards/skills per unit. In my regular A2 class, I have time to spend a day reviewing prerequisite skills. In honors, students need to already have mastered (and retained) all the material from prior coursework, because the review days are taken up with extension topics. For example:

Both classes solved systems of quadratic equations. An algebra 1 standard is systems of linear equations. In A2 I spent time (maybe 1/2 block) reviewing simplistic systems that didn’t require much manipulation (terms dropped out easily) before shifting into more difficult examples with new content. After we covered all 3 methods with quadratics, I had a full day devoted to practicing all methods. In honors, we spent a 5 minute warm up reviewing what a system is, and then dove right into the new stuff, because in addition to quadratics we had to cover systems where x is a function of y (sideways parabolas), and all graphing and solving was expected to be done by hand. In gen ed, students were able to use calculators to graph equations and find intersections to check work or find ordered pairs for graphing.

If you are in an AP school, both classes are a stepping stone to precalc. You can think of gen ed as the AB version of calc and honors as BC. 75% of the class is the same, but that extra 25% really increases the pace for honors.

If you are at an IB school, a successful gen ed algebra 2 student will struggle with the rigor expected in IB analysis, but should be fine with IB applications. If analysis is desired, I would make the jump to honors.

This is so helpful, thank you for taking the time to write this out. I have a child who is currently in Geometry HN and is doing fine but not great (solid B average). They are not planning to pursue a college degree that is super math heavy (ie no engineering or hard sciences). Based on teacher feedback (teacher said my child could go either way - may have a tough time in HN Alg 2, but may not feel challenged in Reg) -- we suggested our kid drop down to regular Algebra 2 and build a solid foundation instead of possibly being overwhelmed in HN. Since they don't really NEED to get to BC Calc for future plans, this seemed like the smarter move. Especially since my child will take HN or AP in all other major subject areas and will likely have more time to focus on those with a less rigorous math course. Anything we're not thinking of?

NP. As you know, it is easy to step off of the math train but nearly impossible to step back on. If he drops down to regular Algebra II instead of H, then Calc BC will no longer be an option. He is sure about not taking Physics also?

[Anonymous]

Take the best class that gives you student the greatest foundation of conceptual understanding with enough challenge.

As for colleges they always like to see kids challenge themselves. That said, that challenge doesn’t have to be in every subject. Getting a B in an Hns or AP class is fine. Getting a C or D when you could have gotten an A in a regular class not so much. That said, if you start with a C and progress to an A that will show growth and perseverance.

[Anonymous]

Teacher above said honors algebra 2 better for both application and analysis if do IB and if don’t do honors then will have hard time with 1 of those. Is it an option to only take either application or just analysis or with IB does student have to take both, which means even if harder, if want to take IB and if IB means have to take both application AND analysis, better to get foundation from the honors class? If know student wants IB, want to steer them to where they have tools to succeed for classes want to take. For purposes of this question, putting aside of one class would get easier higher grade v another class. Thanks,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Teacher above said honors algebra 2 better for both application and analysis if do IB and if don’t do honors then will have hard time with 1 of those. Is it an option to only take either application or just analysis or with IB does student have to take both, which means even if harder, if want to take IB and if IB means have to take both application AND analysis, better to get foundation from the honors class? If know student wants IB, want to steer them to where they have tools to succeed for classes want to take. For purposes of this question, putting aside of one class would get easier higher grade v another class. Thanks,

I'm having trouble understanding what you wrote.

IB Applications is a 2 year sequence. Regular algebra 2 or honors is okay preparation for this. It is application and interpretation of formulas with a tiny dash of calculus.

IB Analysis is a different 2 year sequence. You will need honors for this. It is intense math theory and deeper calculus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wrote a handout on this for our curriculum night. I can copy the text of it tomorrow when I’m back at my desk. That said, it will vary significantly by the school and teachers.

In short at my school: honors moves significantly faster and requires students to go beyond what is explicitly shown in class. For example:

Regular A2 will be shown various types of polynomials and how to factor them. The test will be an assortment of polynomials and students will be asked to factor them. A2H will get the same instruction, but then will be given something like 4x^3-2x^2-kx+1 and asked to find a value of k that makes it factor able with using the grouping method.

It also includes at least one or two extra standards/skills per unit. In my regular A2 class, I have time to spend a day reviewing prerequisite skills. In honors, students need to already have mastered (and retained) all the material from prior coursework, because the review days are taken up with extension topics. For example:

Both classes solved systems of quadratic equations. An algebra 1 standard is systems of linear equations. In A2 I spent time (maybe 1/2 block) reviewing simplistic systems that didn’t require much manipulation (terms dropped out easily) before shifting into more difficult examples with new content. After we covered all 3 methods with quadratics, I had a full day devoted to practicing all methods. In honors, we spent a 5 minute warm up reviewing what a system is, and then dove right into the new stuff, because in addition to quadratics we had to cover systems where x is a function of y (sideways parabolas), and all graphing and solving was expected to be done by hand. In gen ed, students were able to use calculators to graph equations and find intersections to check work or find ordered pairs for graphing.

If you are in an AP school, both classes are a stepping stone to precalc. You can think of gen ed as the AB version of calc and honors as BC. 75% of the class is the same, but that extra 25% really increases the pace for honors.

If you are at an IB school, a successful gen ed algebra 2 student will struggle with the rigor expected in IB analysis, but should be fine with IB applications. If analysis is desired, I would make the jump to honors.

This is so helpful, thank you for taking the time to write this out. I have a child who is currently in Geometry HN and is doing fine but not great (solid B average). They are not planning to pursue a college degree that is super math heavy (ie no engineering or hard sciences). Based on teacher feedback (teacher said my child could go either way - may have a tough time in HN Alg 2, but may not feel challenged in Reg) -- we suggested our kid drop down to regular Algebra 2 and build a solid foundation instead of possibly being overwhelmed in HN. Since they don't really NEED to get to BC Calc for future plans, this seemed like the smarter move. Especially since my child will take HN or AP in all other major subject areas and will likely have more time to focus on those with a less rigorous math course. Anything we're not thinking of?

Do they have a B with a strong understanding of the basics? That is, are they getting nearly 100% of the simplistic "factor this polynomial" or "Graph this function" or "solve for x" problems on assessments, but missing some of the stretch questions on tests? Then cool, they are getting something out of honors. If, however, they are working so hard to grasp the honors pieces and keep up with the pace that they are not mastering the basics and are unable to factor or graph or solve straight forward things consistently, they will be better off dropping down (or adding outside tutoring for support).

If the child had an A in A1H, I would recommend keeping them in honors. It's easier to try the first unit and drop down to regular than to be bored and want to move up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

"Honors B vs non-honors A" is always a tough call. It partly depends on if the student is getting a comfortable B and just needs more time and practice for the advanced ideas to sink in, or if they are struggling and working really hard to get that B, and it's unsustainable. Also depends on whether Alg 1 was a struggle or an easy A, and if the student still remembers it well after a year of geometry.

Being bored in an easier class is a disservice. I know GPA is the false god we all lie prostrate to, but a more challenging class gives the *option* to grow and learn more, while the basic class holds you back unless you challenge yourself privately.

This is exactly the dilemma we're facing. My child had an easy A in Honors Algebra 1 (taught in 8th grade). Their initial plan was to take Honors Algebra 2 because they think their struggle is with Geometry specifically, not with the level of the class. Has a solid B in Honors Geometry. Doesn't seem to be working all that hard, but what they're making mistakes on ARE the application of the material. But, I hear your point that not even being exposed to the application of the material is a big negative and probably a disservice.

The whole GPA situation is also tricky. That Honors B is pulling my child's GPA down, while a regular A would give it a little boost. I'm not sure what the colleges value more -- a lower GPA with harder classes taken, or just a higher GPA, when most classes are rigorous and just the math class isn't.

If they are still keeping strong basics (they are mastering the straight forward portions of assessments) then I don't think being in honors is a disservice. If they are struggling with the pace of honors to the point where even the basic things are falling apart, then move to regular algebra 2.

The majority of my gen ed algebra 2 sophomores still go on to take calculus AB senior year. Some take precalculus and then realize they don't need calc for their intended college major and switch over to AP Stats or even regular stats. Unless you are working towards an engineering degree at a top university, regular math is a fine path towards college acceptance.

[Anonymous]

My 8th grader took Algebra I HN last year and is in Geometry HN this year. However, math is absolutely not her favorite nor her best class. This thread has been so helpful since they have to make class decisions soon!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My 8th grader took Algebra I HN last year and is in Geometry HN this year. However, math is absolutely not her favorite nor her best class. This thread has been so helpful since they have to make class decisions soon!

Curious, what do you think she will decide to take?