Palisades Fire - Los Angeles

[Anonymous]

They are using seawater to combat the fires.
https://ktla.com/news/local-news/watch-firefighters-scoop-ocean-water-to-battle-palisades-fire/

[Anonymous]

Np here. I live in the Bay Area and CA forest fires are the top reason I want to move back to the DMV or elsewhere on the East coast.

I don’t know enough to know if water was diverted for fish that would have helped, but I assume everyone using water and hydrants in any area would deplete the water table / water reserves. Having been near forest fires in my sister’s state (Idaho), knowing that in 2022 and 2023 about the same number of acres burned in Alaska as in CA, and knowing that Oregon, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and Georgia (my parents’ home state) are all in lists of states with large numbers of wildfires, large number of acres burned, or both shows that wildfires are not a red state / blue state problem.

I’ve seen a lot of calls for people to leave / not rebuild in fire prone areas. I’ve wondered what all these people will do for housing. I’ve seen similar calls after natural disasters elsewhere. I feel like this (along with storms / weather elsewhere in country) support the argument in favor of allowing as much of the workforce to telework as possible. Our LA office is now closed indefinitely and many of our offices in other locations have been closed recently for weather. We could not have continued to work efficiently without telework, and it allows more freedom of where to live more generally.

[Anonymous]

Pp here. I’m also in deep fear of what happens under dry CA conditions over the next 4 years if federal aid is withheld, as Trump promised on the campaign trail.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/10/03/helene-trump-politics-natural-disaster-00182419

[Anonymous]

Wind downs powerlines, spreads flames, moves smoke around (affecting viability for fighting from air) and keeps aircraft grounded. So you need the spark and the fuel, but wind can certainly make fires more likely and battling them more difficult.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a fire storm of mass destruction and will only get worse over the night.

Iconic landmarks like the Getty Villa and Palisades HS are on fire. 0% contained.

I grew up in SoCal and this is a disaster. People had to abandon their cars in traffic and run.

30,000 people evacuated but the Getty staff say the museum is very secure. My LA friends left their home before the gridlock. I have been through three fire evacuations in the last few years in the Rocky Mountain West, and several friends lost their homes with minutes to get out. The trauma of losing everything you have is unimaginable, especially for children. I have totally changed how I arrange everything. My heart goes out to anyone who has to evacuate, and wait and wonder what is happening to their home. The wind forecast looks terrible.

If you don't mind sharing, I'd like to hear what changes you made. I live in LA and have several family and friends sheltering in hotels right now.

I am glad your friends made it out, and I hope their homes make it.

We had 15 minutes in our first evacuation, many of our friends had literally two minutes. Here is what I’ve done

-Reorganized “must have” paper and objects so that they exist in one grabbable plastic file box stored in the front closet. This means that the overall organization is disrupted. Obviously it has passports, banking, emergency cash etc., but it also has my favorite drawings from each child, original genealogical documents, love letters. This is the box that is first out. It’s what you need and what you feel like you will die without. I sharpied symbols on the box to remind me to close windows, doors, and shut off power/gas. We don’t have propane but if you do you should try to remove it. This is where you put the things that you take if you have two minutes. I also have a small box of charging equipment. This is totally an emotional crutch for me. I learned the first time that slinging chargers into random places made me feel out of control and panicky, but I really wanted to take them.

-The front closet also has flat boxes, packing tape, bubble wrap, scissors that are not used for anything else. They are there primarily for art and books.

-I have packed a box with one or two pieces of each of the multiple sets of china and crystal that are family things.

-I have a packed box of our most treasured Christmas things.

-Jewelry is stored in a box with trays and I am religious about putting it away

-Books are shelved so that high priority keepers are together. Old photo albums are there (yes they are scanned, but some photos I want if I can have them).

-Every bedroom has a box of big black trash bags. You can stuff a ton of clothing, stuffed animals, special blankets, etc. in really quickly and the bags will squish into vehicles efficiently. Kids can do this while you do something else.i will never forget holding my kid’s quavering friend who barely escaped with her family and did not have a single thing left. Not one stuffed animal, baby toy, pillowcase. Nothing.

-Scanning and photographing. Pretty much everything that can be scanned is scanned, if it can’t be scanned it’s photographed. I have thumb drives here and send copies to my mother and cousin. This serves two purposes. Whatever we can’t take out, we will have a memory of, and we will get the max for our contents insurance (start scanning receipts for things as you buy). Insurance for build cost is usually not enough, and they’re only obligated to pay a % of contents unless you can document it all.

-Priorotized lists. We know approximately what can go out in 2, 5, 10, 15, 30 minutes. We know what fits in our vehicles and what we can add if our friend comes with a trailer. This is all written in order and stored in an envelope taped to the must go box. Be sure to include a device list. No matter how prepared you are, it’s scary. It’s not a time to make decisions. You don’t want to be in the basement staring at your sorority memorabilia and your grandmother’s ice skates and wondering what to take. This also means someone else can pack if you put locations and ideally a photo on the list.

Overall, my house is no longer organized for maximum efficiency, but for maximum evacuation efficiency. It doesn’t change much or look weird. It just means some extra steps and discipline here and there. Everyone will have different priorities and choices. The key is making those decisions before the crisis and organizing so you don’t have to think or search for things when you evacuate.

This is incredibly helpful, and useful (adaptable) for any sort of evacuation in my opinion. Thank you!
I’ve only ever evacuated from hurricanes. I have not been this organized (not even close), but it’s a good reminder anyone can adapt to their needs.

I do wonder how you know if you will have 2 min or 10 min or 30 min? These are extremely narrow margins. Really hope you will be ok, hope to hear an update!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Np here. I live in the Bay Area and CA forest fires are the top reason I want to move back to the DMV or elsewhere on the East coast.

I don’t know enough to know if water was diverted for fish that would have helped, but I assume everyone using water and hydrants in any area would deplete the water table / water reserves. Having been near forest fires in my sister’s state (Idaho), knowing that in 2022 and 2023 about the same number of acres burned in Alaska as in CA, and knowing that Oregon, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and Georgia (my parents’ home state) are all in lists of states with large numbers of wildfires, large number of acres burned, or both shows that wildfires are not a red state / blue state problem.

I’ve seen a lot of calls for people to leave / not rebuild in fire prone areas. I’ve wondered what all these people will do for housing. I’ve seen similar calls after natural disasters elsewhere. I feel like this (along with storms / weather elsewhere in country) support the argument in favor of allowing as much of the workforce to telework as possible. Our LA office is now closed indefinitely and many of our offices in other locations have been closed recently for weather. We could not have continued to work efficiently without telework, and it allows more freedom of where to live more generally.

Agreed!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a fire storm of mass destruction and will only get worse over the night.

Iconic landmarks like the Getty Villa and Palisades HS are on fire. 0% contained.

I grew up in SoCal and this is a disaster. People had to abandon their cars in traffic and run.

30,000 people evacuated but the Getty staff say the museum is very secure. My LA friends left their home before the gridlock. I have been through three fire evacuations in the last few years in the Rocky Mountain West, and several friends lost their homes with minutes to get out. The trauma of losing everything you have is unimaginable, especially for children. I have totally changed how I arrange everything. My heart goes out to anyone who has to evacuate, and wait and wonder what is happening to their home. The wind forecast looks terrible.

If you don't mind sharing, I'd like to hear what changes you made. I live in LA and have several family and friends sheltering in hotels right now.

I am glad your friends made it out, and I hope their homes make it.

We had 15 minutes in our first evacuation, many of our friends had literally two minutes. Here is what I’ve done

-Reorganized “must have” paper and objects so that they exist in one grabbable plastic file box stored in the front closet. This means that the overall organization is disrupted. Obviously it has passports, banking, emergency cash etc., but it also has my favorite drawings from each child, original genealogical documents, love letters. This is the box that is first out. It’s what you need and what you feel like you will die without. I sharpied symbols on the box to remind me to close windows, doors, and shut off power/gas. We don’t have propane but if you do you should try to remove it. This is where you put the things that you take if you have two minutes. I also have a small box of charging equipment. This is totally an emotional crutch for me. I learned the first time that slinging chargers into random places made me feel out of control and panicky, but I really wanted to take them.

-The front closet also has flat boxes, packing tape, bubble wrap, scissors that are not used for anything else. They are there primarily for art and books.

-I have packed a box with one or two pieces of each of the multiple sets of china and crystal that are family things.

-I have a packed box of our most treasured Christmas things.

-Jewelry is stored in a box with trays and I am religious about putting it away

-Books are shelved so that high priority keepers are together. Old photo albums are there (yes they are scanned, but some photos I want if I can have them).

-Every bedroom has a box of big black trash bags. You can stuff a ton of clothing, stuffed animals, special blankets, etc. in really quickly and the bags will squish into vehicles efficiently. Kids can do this while you do something else.i will never forget holding my kid’s quavering friend who barely escaped with her family and did not have a single thing left. Not one stuffed animal, baby toy, pillowcase. Nothing.

-Scanning and photographing. Pretty much everything that can be scanned is scanned, if it can’t be scanned it’s photographed. I have thumb drives here and send copies to my mother and cousin. This serves two purposes. Whatever we can’t take out, we will have a memory of, and we will get the max for our contents insurance (start scanning receipts for things as you buy). Insurance for build cost is usually not enough, and they’re only obligated to pay a % of contents unless you can document it all.

-Priorotized lists. We know approximately what can go out in 2, 5, 10, 15, 30 minutes. We know what fits in our vehicles and what we can add if our friend comes with a trailer. This is all written in order and stored in an envelope taped to the must go box. Be sure to include a device list. No matter how prepared you are, it’s scary. It’s not a time to make decisions. You don’t want to be in the basement staring at your sorority memorabilia and your grandmother’s ice skates and wondering what to take. This also means someone else can pack if you put locations and ideally a photo on the list.

Overall, my house is no longer organized for maximum efficiency, but for maximum evacuation efficiency. It doesn’t change much or look weird. It just means some extra steps and discipline here and there. Everyone will have different priorities and choices. The key is making those decisions before the crisis and organizing so you don’t have to think or search for things when you evacuate.

Christmas decorations? China decorations? WTF, lady! You are crazy. If your friend comes in a trailer?! Really, I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this.

Having to flee my house at midnight with my husband and two elementary aged kids, two guinea pigs, and dog (the gecko got left behind) the priority is PEOPLE AND PETS and how to get out safely and survive. In our case as the fire got closer and closer there was not much of a warning. These are some of our things we have prioritized and now consider:
1.You most likely are NOT going to have electricity as you evacuate at night. SoCal Edison starts cutting the power in widespread areas because they don't want Santa Ana winds blowing more power poles over and starting a new electrical fire. So you are trying to figure out when you are going to have to evacuate without being able to look at a laptop (our internet goes out if we have no power) or TV screen. We now have solar powered camping lamps that will charge phones and provide light to get grab things. Put one in every bedroom. https://www.amazon.com/Duracell-flashlight-illumination-emergency-available/dp/B0CT78JJDP/ref=asc_df_B0CT78JJDP?mcid=fe05ef8183573adf99c1501e26a93a51&tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=693128046662&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11371813603861569545&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031615&hvtargid=pla-2294117180143&psc=1
2. As the fire comes closer and closer the wind is going to blow massive amounts of smoke. This sets off the fire alarms in your house. Imagine trying to gather things in the dark as every single fire alarm in your house is going off. We started literally ripping every single one of them off the walls because we couldn't take it as panic sets in.
3. Make sure your garage door can open WITHOUT power. CA passed a law that new garage doors can open if the power is out (they have a battery pack that will allow the garage door to open a few times without power). If not park your car outside of your garage on Santa Ana wind fires.
4. Trying to figure out what is happening is stressful. You are trying to figure out what is happening and how far the fire is away on a cell phone screen. You need a contact person who does NOT live near you to be able to be helping you out in case you really are forced to leave quickly. Sometimes you might have more warning than other times. That person has to be able to tell you the direction the fire is traveling, what roads are open to evacuate, and can book a hotel miles away from the fire for you online or start calling hotels directly to see if there is space. Think about it. When we had to evacuate we ended up sleeping the first night in our car because every hotel around was booked. You are competing with thousands of people to try to get a hotel room. And it is harder if you have pets. We luckily got a room the next night at a hotel 15 miles away. We could have traveled 60 miles away to stay with family but we stunk like smoke and were just tired and wanted to just be together as family. We had no idea if we had a house left (a neighbors house burned up the block along with hundreds of others in our town).
5. You should have a snack bag because stores and restaurants close since there is no power for internet to use credit cards, workers are evacuating.
Ugh our lights just went in and out. We are going to lose power soon. Will post more later.

Thank you for these very practical and important evacuation reminders and recommendations!
I hope you and your family, neighbors, and pets are ok!!!

Did the PP update?

[Anonymous]

Ah, yes blame the homeless. By the way, what is this about California doing nothing?

https://www.gov.ca.gov/2024/10/04/governor-newsom-awards-131-million-to-clear-homeless-encampments-with-stricter-accountability-measures/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

When people call Democrats “delusional,” this is why. It’s like if the captain of the Titanic was screaming “This ship is unsinkable, & I will never let harm come to any of my passengers!” as the ship sinks.

Your policies are ridiculous. Your politicians are buffoons. And you are inventing a million reasons to keep from accepting these realities

Like Florida isn’t a disaster?

Florida is great! People can't afford home insurance but at least trans people can't use the wrong bathrooms! Priorities!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp here. I’m also in deep fear of what happens under dry CA conditions over the next 4 years if federal aid is withheld, as Trump promised on the campaign trail.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/10/03/helene-trump-politics-natural-disaster-00182419

In 2020 Trump signed a bill that would have diverted excess water from Northern California to LA specifically to boost the reservoirs for fire fighting purposes. The state and advocacy groups, including Newsom, battled him using the pretext that it'd hurt the salmon among others. That is the origin of the disagreement of Trump and Newsom. Unfortunately, it is true, so for all of his childish petulant screeds in a manner that only Trump can muster, Trump actually does have a point here. Right now California is not really governed to serve the safety and wellbeing of its people. Its programs and policies are bled by a thousand cuts through demands by so many advocacy groups wanting to protect/preserve/champion equity for this and that.

Wildfires are a fact of life in California and the dangers of a massive wildfire promising this level and even greater destructions has always been there, yet what we saw was a strange lack of advance preparation despite plenty of warnings that the conditions were ripe. Serious questions have to be asked about it. And I would not be upset if the Trump administration demanded LA and the California state governments to explain why they weren't better prepared or to outline new policies and laws that guaranteed a basic level of preparedness for worst case situations before releasing any new federal aid to the state. Americans cannot be called to pour more money (billions and billions) after bad if no basic changes are being made at the ground level. To use as one small but critical example, so many wildfires (fortunately mostly doused in time) are started by homeless people yet California has seemingly done little to address the homeless problem or is, at least, very slow to do anything meaningful.

Legitimate questions need to be asked about the competence of California governing class.

I’m OP worried about Trump. I agree questions need to be asked re the response to the current fire. That said, the videos of Santa Ana winds and the idea that entire neighborhoods in Southern California should all be able to hose their houses while fire fighters are using hydrants and having enough water for it all seems very hard - if not impossible - to be prepared for. Also, I don’t know that water should be diverted from Northern CA to southern CA and / or farmlands. This is not a problem unique to CA - red states have plenty of wildfires (Alaska, Idaho etc) and also have cities that are likely to face severe water problems regardless of whether a fire ever whips through neighborhoods (eg Phoenix, Las Vegas).

My understanding is that Trump didn’t sign a water diversion bill (ie no such bill existed) but that there have been other water fights. By all means there should be investigations into what happened - Newsom has said as much - but we also need federal aid to continue in January. Calling for an investigation to occur and be concluded as a condition of aid is a dangerous president. For instance, I suspect many more people would have died had a completed investigation into the Texas powergrid failure been a condition for federal aid then, as is true of other emergency responses (hurricanes, forest fires etc). The precedent is that Trump has wanted to withhold disaster funding to CA - and he repeated this on the campaign trail - as a stick, but other states (to my Knowledge) haven’t had similar sticks as conditional requirements in their emergencies.

The whole debate reminds me of the gun reform arguments - after a mass shouting there are a lot of statements that it’s not the right time for policy and help is needed now, but then it never is the right time for policy because help is always needed by that standard given the number of shootings in this country. Balancing emergency response and care with policy reform is needed, but there does have to be some triage.

Agreed. The partisan targeting of California when red states have been equally or even more unprepared is really vile and frankly immoral.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp here. I’m also in deep fear of what happens under dry CA conditions over the next 4 years if federal aid is withheld, as Trump promised on the campaign trail.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/10/03/helene-trump-politics-natural-disaster-00182419

In 2020 Trump signed a bill that would have diverted excess water from Northern California to LA specifically to boost the reservoirs for fire fighting purposes. The state and advocacy groups, including Newsom, battled him using the pretext that it'd hurt the salmon among others. That is the origin of the disagreement of Trump and Newsom. Unfortunately, it is true, so for all of his childish petulant screeds in a manner that only Trump can muster, Trump actually does have a point here. Right now California is not really governed to serve the safety and wellbeing of its people. Its programs and policies are bled by a thousand cuts through demands by so many advocacy groups wanting to protect/preserve/champion equity for this and that.

Wildfires are a fact of life in California and the dangers of a massive wildfire promising this level and even greater destructions has always been there, yet what we saw was a strange lack of advance preparation despite plenty of warnings that the conditions were ripe. Serious questions have to be asked about it. And I would not be upset if the Trump administration demanded LA and the California state governments to explain why they weren't better prepared or to outline new policies and laws that guaranteed a basic level of preparedness for worst case situations before releasing any new federal aid to the state. Americans cannot be called to pour more money (billions and billions) after bad if no basic changes are being made at the ground level. To use as one small but critical example, so many wildfires (fortunately mostly doused in time) are started by homeless people yet California has seemingly done little to address the homeless problem or is, at least, very slow to do anything meaningful.

Legitimate questions need to be asked about the competence of California governing class.

I’m OP worried about Trump. I agree questions need to be asked re the response to the current fire. That said, the videos of Santa Ana winds and the idea that entire neighborhoods in Southern California should all be able to hose their houses while fire fighters are using hydrants and having enough water for it all seems very hard - if not impossible - to be prepared for. Also, I don’t know that water should be diverted from Northern CA to southern CA and / or farmlands. This is not a problem unique to CA - red states have plenty of wildfires (Alaska, Idaho etc) and also have cities that are likely to face severe water problems regardless of whether a fire ever whips through neighborhoods (eg Phoenix, Las Vegas).

My understanding is that Trump didn’t sign a water diversion bill (ie no such bill existed) but that there have been other water fights. By all means there should be investigations into what happened - Newsom has said as much - but we also need federal aid to continue in January. Calling for an investigation to occur and be concluded as a condition of aid is a dangerous president. For instance, I suspect many more people would have died had a completed investigation into the Texas powergrid failure been a condition for federal aid then, as is true of other emergency responses (hurricanes, forest fires etc). The precedent is that Trump has wanted to withhold disaster funding to CA - and he repeated this on the campaign trail - as a stick, but other states (to my Knowledge) haven’t had similar sticks as conditional requirements in their emergencies.

The whole debate reminds me of the gun reform arguments - after a mass shouting there are a lot of statements that it’s not the right time for policy and help is needed now, but then it never is the right time for policy because help is always needed by that standard given the number of shootings in this country. Balancing emergency response and care with policy reform is needed, but there does have to be some triage.

Agreed. The partisan targeting of California when red states have been equally or even more unprepared is really vile and frankly immoral.

This a thousand times. It’s vile and evil

[Anonymous]

“I’ve seen a lot of calls for people to leave / not rebuild in fire prone areas. I’ve wondered what all these people will do for housing.”

Move elsewhere like people have always done when circumstances change. The idea that people can and should just stay in one place forever is the most Un American thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They are using seawater to combat the fires.
https://ktla.com/news/local-news/watch-firefighters-scoop-ocean-water-to-battle-palisades-fire/

Did they get a permit first?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:California responds very well to these disasters which is exactly why the GOP trolls are out in force trying to change the narrative to benefit them. The GOP, the party that cheers when school children are gunned down because it means more gun sales. The GOP who wants to strip away your healthcare, cut your social security. The GOP who now wants disaster relief for businesses not people. The GOP that wants to repeal every environmental and human protection regulation so developers can build anything, anywhere. The GOP who will lie to you and do anything to make a buck.

It's hard to believe you truly think california's leaders have prepared for and responded "very well" to this disaster.

OK now we see what is going on, crisis actors, internet trolls, the corporate media are working hard now to make the fires a Democrat problem--they are going to work hard to get those jucy California electoral votes and house seats. This is their priority now--not rebuilding and recovery.

Governor Newsom has said there needs to be an investigation of what happened and what went wrong. He's neither a Republican nor a troll. Don't think he works for corporate media either.

I just saw an in-depth interview Newsom did with local LA news. He was great: said it's not about finger pointing but about answering questions that must be answered, and he raised all sorts of points (water, electrical among them) that need to be investigated, talked about specific ways they would help residents with rebuilding. He also invited Trump (who has not responded yet). And to cut down on all the partisan talk, DeSantis immediately offered assistance from FL to California, just like FL did when hurricane Milton did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Pp here. I’m also in deep fear of what happens under dry CA conditions over the next 4 years if federal aid is withheld, as Trump promised on the campaign trail.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/10/03/helene-trump-politics-natural-disaster-00182419

The money is the easy part. It’s CEQA and the phalanx of environmental groups (that the Hollywood stars all donate to) ready to sue that makes it impossible.