Gaza War, Part 3

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Israel has slaughtered 32,000 Palestinians since 10/7. Congratulations to Israel, Bibi and the Zionists for turning the world against Jews.

Nobody should be against Jews. People can and should hate the Zionists all they want, but let's never judge anyone based on their religion or ethnicity. Zionists have perverted Judaism for personal gain and power and have weaponized it to dehumanize and massacre Palestinians. Zionism is undoubtedly a hideous and racist creed, but please, let's recognize the difference between Jews and Zionists. Many Jews hate Zionism.

Well, when are Jews going to oust Bibi and his right wing religious minions?

Chuck Schumer, the most powerful Jew in American politics called for his ouster in a compelling and passionate speech.

Sadly I'm not hearing a damn thing similar to that from powerful and influential Muslims calling for the ouster of Hamas leadership.

I mean, isn't Israel supposedly ousting Hamas and its leadership? Or is that goal no longer on the agenda?

You seem confused. It's the Gazans who should be calling for the ouster of Hamas. And doing so would bring much faster humanitarian aid and relief.

The Palestinians have no homes, no food or water, no electricity, no phones or internet and they are surrounded by trigger happy Israelis and Hamas. How does your suggestion work?

That's their choice, given 71% said they are good with Hamas's bloody massacre on 10/7.

Had Hamas not launched that attack, Gazans would still be in their homes with food, water, electricity, and everything else. For all of the "yeah but" there's no getting around that.

Do you also subscribe to the “she was asking for it” theory of rape?

How completely idiotic - that's a totally wrong analogy. Hamas has launched thousands of rockets at Israel over the last several years, which would have killed many thousands, were it not for the Iron Dome. And then Hamas launched a violent assault, massacring or kidnapping civilians right and left. When you punch someone in the face and break their nose, and then that person whose nose you broke comes back with a group of friends to break your nose in return, it's NOT EVEN REMOTELY a "she asked for it because of how she was dressed" situation.

Except you seem to be overlooking the part where you're coming back with a group of friends to not just punch them in the nose (that would be a proportional response), but murdering, maiming or otherwise harming them and everyone they know, destroying their homes and possessions, and forcibly stealing their land by permanently displacing them. And that's just to this point - who knows what devious plans you have in the future?

I know proportional responses are not in your playbook because "how dare they even think to fight back!" is the Israeli ethos, but seriously - you really have a warped sense of the world around you.

How many Palestinians did Israel kidnap or massacre in the 2 years prior to 10/7? Do you think 10/7 was proportionate? (it wasn't - it was a hugely disproportionate attack by Hamas). Not to mention the thousands of rockets fired by Hamas which would have killed tens of thousands of Israelis if they hadn't been shot down by Iron Dome.

Thanks for ignoring the THOUSANDS of Palestinians Israel killed prior to the 10/7. It's like only Jewish lives matter to you genocide deniers.

I guess it's only fair if pro-Palestinians want to continually deny the Jewish genocide in WWII and centuries of other atrocities committed against Jews... I guess it's only fair if pro-Palestinians want to continually deny and ignore all of the things that precipitated Arab-Israeli wars and the repeated instances of genocidal attacks going back to the very day that Israel was partitioned.

The Jewish genocide in WWII was caused by the Germans. It had nothing to do with the Palestinians. That’s the whole problem. The Palestinians are forced to pay for the German (and European and US who rejected Jewish refugees after the war)’s sins.

Well you have to admit there was also that little bit of the Palestinians repeatedly trying to drive the Jews off of the lands they had been given by international treaty and repeatedly trying to exterminate them.

International treaty between whom? The Palestinians/Arabs were not signatories of that treaty. I think you mean UN Resolution 181. The Nakba had already begun by then.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Israel has slaughtered 32,000 Palestinians since 10/7. Congratulations to Israel, Bibi and the Zionists for turning the world against Jews.

Nobody should be against Jews. People can and should hate the Zionists all they want, but let's never judge anyone based on their religion or ethnicity. Zionists have perverted Judaism for personal gain and power and have weaponized it to dehumanize and massacre Palestinians. Zionism is undoubtedly a hideous and racist creed, but please, let's recognize the difference between Jews and Zionists. Many Jews hate Zionism.

Well, when are Jews going to oust Bibi and his right wing religious minions?

Chuck Schumer, the most powerful Jew in American politics called for his ouster in a compelling and passionate speech.

Sadly I'm not hearing a damn thing similar to that from powerful and influential Muslims calling for the ouster of Hamas leadership.

I mean, isn't Israel supposedly ousting Hamas and its leadership? Or is that goal no longer on the agenda?

You seem confused. It's the Gazans who should be calling for the ouster of Hamas. And doing so would bring much faster humanitarian aid and relief.

The Palestinians have no homes, no food or water, no electricity, no phones or internet and they are surrounded by trigger happy Israelis and Hamas. How does your suggestion work?

That's their choice, given 71% said they are good with Hamas's bloody massacre on 10/7.

Had Hamas not launched that attack, Gazans would still be in their homes with food, water, electricity, and everything else. For all of the "yeah but" there's no getting around that.

Do you also subscribe to the “she was asking for it” theory of rape?

How completely idiotic - that's a totally wrong analogy. Hamas has launched thousands of rockets at Israel over the last several years, which would have killed many thousands, were it not for the Iron Dome. And then Hamas launched a violent assault, massacring or kidnapping civilians right and left. When you punch someone in the face and break their nose, and then that person whose nose you broke comes back with a group of friends to break your nose in return, it's NOT EVEN REMOTELY a "she asked for it because of how she was dressed" situation.

Do you really think Israel wasn’t harming Gaza during this time? They were under a land, sea and air blockade. 2/3rds of Gazans prior to 10/7 were food insecure.

Yeah that tends to happen when you smuggle weapons. Gazans would have been a lot better off if Hamas had instead actually spent the billions it was given on peaceful things like improving the economy and sustainability of Gaza, investing in infrastructure and so on. But instead they stole all of the money and spent it on weapons and tunnels and they dug up the water lines to use the pipes for rockets, paying for Russian mercenaries to train them and so on.

How can they invest in infrastructure when Israel is gate-keeping the use of building materials? There is so much dishonesty in your Zionist statements that at this point it is best to just disengage conversing with the likes of you.

Somehow they were able to build pretty elaborate tunnels.
They built nothing for the citizens.

Gaza is more developed than the kibbutzim on the border. Has a higher literacy rate than the US , UK, Egypt, Israel or the West Bank . A cargo ship just made one of our bridges collapse today yet Israel dropped 2,000 pound bomb after bomb in hopes to penetrate tunnels but none have worked. These tunnels are stronger than our infrastructure and were clearly designed by smart engineers .

For a full land, sir, and sea blockade and a country that gets obliterated to pieces every eight or ten years , that’s highly impressive . The Arabs and Israelis talk in surprise and envy about Palestinians . The settlers purposely take the water and olives , fig groves snd trees the poor rural Palestinians cultivate in the West Bank for no reason other than envy. You don’t take something food wise if you don’t trust the people or think they’re animalistic

So, not an open air prison? But a glorious beachside paradise?

I'm not sure I understand why residents were so gung ho about slaughtering Israelis and holding them captive, if doing so would put their beautiful home at risk so badly.

No no, I know - 1948, 1967, something hateful about Zionists (spit).

And I say this, while distressed - to put it mildly - about the Israeli course of action here. I believed from the start, unlike so many of you, that Israel has a right to defend itself. But it doesn't seem like that is what it's doing now. I don't believe this is a genocide, but I do believe that Netanyahu is pursuing what is increasingly an indefensible method of rooting out Hamas because he thinks it's the only way for him to hold on for dear life. He's willing to destroy Israel to try to save himself.

But you people talking out both sides of your mouth about what life is = or was - like in Gaza does not help win you any converts. It makes you sound like you don't believe in anything other than wanting Israel to die.

But you people talking out both sides of your mouth about what life is = or was - like in Gaza does not help win you any converts. It makes you sound like you don't believe in anything other than wanting Israel to die.

I agree with this 100%.

Not PP but unsure what the disconnect is. Yes, Gaza was an open air prison prior to 10/7 with a land, sea, and air blockade. 2/3s of the population reported food instability and high rates of stress. Despite these conditions, Gazans proved themselves resourceful in using the tools at their disposal. They focused on education and had high rates of literacy, a strong medical system, and a well developed tunnel network that was designed to get them around the blockade. However, this was not a recipe for a stable and happy community and a small subset of militants were angry enough to seek retribution on 10/7. That was horrible but there was context. Israel is now starving and killing Palestinians in Gaza. Sad and tragic. Also dangerous IMO since their actions are only inspiring more hate.

Gaza has to be the first and only "prison" in all of human history to make tourism videos - from a post above:

Anonymous wrote:Before October 7, Gaza was a thriving place. It had its poor neighborhoods, and Hamas closed many places that allowed "too much" mixing by the sexes (i.e. a nice swimming complex), but it was developing. Here's a little tourist blurb-obviously, before October 7:

Here's a drone view of Gaza from 2021. What some in the media called "refugee camps" were mostly high-rise buildings:

Contradiction after contradiction after contradiction. I'm honestly sick of all of your contradictions.

I don’t really understand your point. sure, Palestinians in Gaza tried to portray the best attributes of their community. But obviously there were underlying issues (such as the Israeli sea, land and air blockade) that studies conducted just prior to 10/7 have shown to be result in 2/3 of the population being food insecure and living in conditions of high stress.

The only thing I see as contradictory is your insistence that life in Gaza was just fienand dandy vs the horrors of 10/7. Every thing in history is cause and effect. Revenge and “othering” is how our world has turned since the dawn of time. Don’t you want to on the side of history that breaks this cycle? Or are you too stuck in your narrow world view you can only see one “side”?

My issue with all of this is the lack of a consistent, coherent narrative or set of talking points on the Palestinian side. It's a nonstop barrage of hyperbolic statements, each of which then gets undermined by the next post.

+ 1. It’s infuriating; I hate being lied to and manipulated!

What are the lies?

[Anonymous]

The sadism of Hamas is what I can't get out of my head....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The initial mischaracterization can charitably be chalked up to the immediate confusion of the situation and a game of telephone. However the continued trumpeting and amplification of the bad information after the first few days was a craven deliberate lie.

bad information like all the people they actually killed? downplaying 10/7 does you no favors.

Bad information like baking babies in oven etc. It was pretty clear. That didn't happen. Saying it didn't happen doesn't downplay anything.

It's a bit absurd to demand that we all pretend that something happened which didn't. The attack was horrific enough as is, lying to make it seem worse does not help anything.

They just plan to keep saying these things happened until that's all people hear, and eventually they will start to believe it. Eventually they will make it taboo/illegal to "deny" what they said happened. It worked before so they think it will keep working.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Israel has slaughtered 32,000 Palestinians since 10/7. Congratulations to Israel, Bibi and the Zionists for turning the world against Jews.

Nobody should be against Jews. People can and should hate the Zionists all they want, but let's never judge anyone based on their religion or ethnicity. Zionists have perverted Judaism for personal gain and power and have weaponized it to dehumanize and massacre Palestinians. Zionism is undoubtedly a hideous and racist creed, but please, let's recognize the difference between Jews and Zionists. Many Jews hate Zionism.

Well, when are Jews going to oust Bibi and his right wing religious minions?

Chuck Schumer, the most powerful Jew in American politics called for his ouster in a compelling and passionate speech.

Sadly I'm not hearing a damn thing similar to that from powerful and influential Muslims calling for the ouster of Hamas leadership.

I mean, isn't Israel supposedly ousting Hamas and its leadership? Or is that goal no longer on the agenda?

You seem confused. It's the Gazans who should be calling for the ouster of Hamas. And doing so would bring much faster humanitarian aid and relief.

The Palestinians have no homes, no food or water, no electricity, no phones or internet and they are surrounded by trigger happy Israelis and Hamas. How does your suggestion work?

That's their choice, given 71% said they are good with Hamas's bloody massacre on 10/7.

Had Hamas not launched that attack, Gazans would still be in their homes with food, water, electricity, and everything else. For all of the "yeah but" there's no getting around that.

Do you also subscribe to the “she was asking for it” theory of rape?

How completely idiotic - that's a totally wrong analogy. Hamas has launched thousands of rockets at Israel over the last several years, which would have killed many thousands, were it not for the Iron Dome. And then Hamas launched a violent assault, massacring or kidnapping civilians right and left. When you punch someone in the face and break their nose, and then that person whose nose you broke comes back with a group of friends to break your nose in return, it's NOT EVEN REMOTELY a "she asked for it because of how she was dressed" situation.

Except you seem to be overlooking the part where you're coming back with a group of friends to not just punch them in the nose (that would be a proportional response), but murdering, maiming or otherwise harming them and everyone they know, destroying their homes and possessions, and forcibly stealing their land by permanently displacing them. And that's just to this point - who knows what devious plans you have in the future?

I know proportional responses are not in your playbook because "how dare they even think to fight back!" is the Israeli ethos, but seriously - you really have a warped sense of the world around you.

How many Palestinians did Israel kidnap or massacre in the 2 years prior to 10/7? Do you think 10/7 was proportionate? (it wasn't - it was a hugely disproportionate attack by Hamas). Not to mention the thousands of rockets fired by Hamas which would have killed tens of thousands of Israelis if they hadn't been shot down by Iron Dome.

Thanks for ignoring the THOUSANDS of Palestinians Israel killed prior to the 10/7. It's like only Jewish lives matter to you genocide deniers.

I guess it's only fair if pro-Palestinians want to continually deny the Jewish genocide in WWII and centuries of other atrocities committed against Jews... I guess it's only fair if pro-Palestinians want to continually deny and ignore all of the things that precipitated Arab-Israeli wars and the repeated instances of genocidal attacks going back to the very day that Israel was partitioned.

The Jewish genocide in WWII was caused by the Germans. It had nothing to do with the Palestinians. That’s the whole problem. The Palestinians are forced to pay for the German (and European and US who rejected Jewish refugees after the war)’s sins.

Well you have to admit there was also that little bit of the Palestinians repeatedly trying to drive the Jews off of the lands they had been given by international treaty and repeatedly trying to exterminate them.

I laughed at your characterization of land theft initiated by Zionist terrorism as “international treaty”, especially in light of the flagrant disregard Israel has for international resolutions these days.

Jews legally purchased land in Palestine pre-1948. There was a partition plan that was designed so that those legally purchased lands were part of Israel. The Palestinians received a much bigger swath of land than the Jews in that plan. The land the Jews had purchased was mainly swamp lands that they drained and cultivated. Many died from malaria making the land livable. Bottom line: Regardless of whether the British had the right to make both a Jewish and an Arab country, there is now a Jewish country that is prospering. The way forward for everyone is for the Palestinians to make their lives prosperous by accepting Israel and renouncing terrorism once and for all. They need to make a true peace and start living their lives like we all want to live our lives. Only then will they be able to live free lives. With terrorism still in play, Israel will continue to do what it takes to prevent Israelis from being murdered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The sadism of Hamas is what I can't get out of my head....

I know. The attacking Hamas militants displayed so much anger. For me, instead of just dismissing them as “pure evil” I seek to understand why. From a Rand report:

“The phrase “mowing the grass” has been the bumper sticker version of Israeli strategy in Gaza for the last decade and a half.

It plays out in the following way: Palestinians, frustrated by the state of the enclave, turn to the likes of Hamas for, if nothing else, vengeance against Israel; Israel imposes restrictions such as the blockade on Gaza, citing security concerns; living conditions in Gaza deteriorate further, and discontent builds; Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, and others capitalize on the discontent and attack Israel; and Israel responds by “mowing the grass”—killing the perpetrators along with some number of civilians, buying at best a few years of relative peace and fueling further long-term radicalization. And so the cycle continues ad infinitum.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Israel has slaughtered 32,000 Palestinians since 10/7. Congratulations to Israel, Bibi and the Zionists for turning the world against Jews.

Nobody should be against Jews. People can and should hate the Zionists all they want, but let's never judge anyone based on their religion or ethnicity. Zionists have perverted Judaism for personal gain and power and have weaponized it to dehumanize and massacre Palestinians. Zionism is undoubtedly a hideous and racist creed, but please, let's recognize the difference between Jews and Zionists. Many Jews hate Zionism.

Well, when are Jews going to oust Bibi and his right wing religious minions?

Chuck Schumer, the most powerful Jew in American politics called for his ouster in a compelling and passionate speech.

Sadly I'm not hearing a damn thing similar to that from powerful and influential Muslims calling for the ouster of Hamas leadership.

I mean, isn't Israel supposedly ousting Hamas and its leadership? Or is that goal no longer on the agenda?

You seem confused. It's the Gazans who should be calling for the ouster of Hamas. And doing so would bring much faster humanitarian aid and relief.

The Palestinians have no homes, no food or water, no electricity, no phones or internet and they are surrounded by trigger happy Israelis and Hamas. How does your suggestion work?

That's their choice, given 71% said they are good with Hamas's bloody massacre on 10/7.

Had Hamas not launched that attack, Gazans would still be in their homes with food, water, electricity, and everything else. For all of the "yeah but" there's no getting around that.

Do you also subscribe to the “she was asking for it” theory of rape?

How completely idiotic - that's a totally wrong analogy. Hamas has launched thousands of rockets at Israel over the last several years, which would have killed many thousands, were it not for the Iron Dome. And then Hamas launched a violent assault, massacring or kidnapping civilians right and left. When you punch someone in the face and break their nose, and then that person whose nose you broke comes back with a group of friends to break your nose in return, it's NOT EVEN REMOTELY a "she asked for it because of how she was dressed" situation.

Except you seem to be overlooking the part where you're coming back with a group of friends to not just punch them in the nose (that would be a proportional response), but murdering, maiming or otherwise harming them and everyone they know, destroying their homes and possessions, and forcibly stealing their land by permanently displacing them. And that's just to this point - who knows what devious plans you have in the future?

I know proportional responses are not in your playbook because "how dare they even think to fight back!" is the Israeli ethos, but seriously - you really have a warped sense of the world around you.

How many Palestinians did Israel kidnap or massacre in the 2 years prior to 10/7? Do you think 10/7 was proportionate? (it wasn't - it was a hugely disproportionate attack by Hamas). Not to mention the thousands of rockets fired by Hamas which would have killed tens of thousands of Israelis if they hadn't been shot down by Iron Dome.

Thanks for ignoring the THOUSANDS of Palestinians Israel killed prior to the 10/7. It's like only Jewish lives matter to you genocide deniers.

I guess it's only fair if pro-Palestinians want to continually deny the Jewish genocide in WWII and centuries of other atrocities committed against Jews... I guess it's only fair if pro-Palestinians want to continually deny and ignore all of the things that precipitated Arab-Israeli wars and the repeated instances of genocidal attacks going back to the very day that Israel was partitioned.

The Jewish genocide in WWII was caused by the Germans. It had nothing to do with the Palestinians. That’s the whole problem. The Palestinians are forced to pay for the German (and European and US who rejected Jewish refugees after the war)’s sins.

Well you have to admit there was also that little bit of the Palestinians repeatedly trying to drive the Jews off of the lands they had been given by international treaty and repeatedly trying to exterminate them.

I laughed at your characterization of land theft initiated by Zionist terrorism as “international treaty”, especially in light of the flagrant disregard Israel has for international resolutions these days.

Jews legally purchased land in Palestine pre-1948. There was a partition plan that was designed so that those legally purchased lands were part of Israel. The Palestinians received a much bigger swath of land than the Jews in that plan. The land the Jews had purchased was mainly swamp lands that they drained and cultivated. Many died from malaria making the land livable. Bottom line: Regardless of whether the British had the right to make both a Jewish and an Arab country, there is now a Jewish country that is prospering. The way forward for everyone is for the Palestinians to make their lives prosperous by accepting Israel and renouncing terrorism once and for all. They need to make a true peace and start living their lives like we all want to live our lives. Only then will they be able to live free lives. With terrorism still in play, Israel will continue to do what it takes to prevent Israelis from being murdered.

From what I understand many of these purchases were from absentee landlords who left the farming to Palestinian tenants. Yes, the purchases were legal but it made the Palestinian tenant farmers angry to be asked to leave their homes where they had lived for generations. Angry people lash out. Let’s push Israel to break that cycle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The initial mischaracterization can charitably be chalked up to the immediate confusion of the situation and a game of telephone. However the continued trumpeting and amplification of the bad information after the first few days was a craven deliberate lie.

bad information like all the people they actually killed? downplaying 10/7 does you no favors.

Bad information like baking babies in oven etc. It was pretty clear. That didn't happen. Saying it didn't happen doesn't downplay anything.

It's a bit absurd to demand that we all pretend that something happened which didn't. The attack was horrific enough as is, lying to make it seem worse does not help anything.

It's also bad information to claim there were no rapes or sexual assaults committed by Hamas when for example there was video of the body of the German girl taken from the concert paraded around naked in the back of a Hamas vehicle. Yet you seem to be demanding we pretend none of that happened when it absolutely did and the video and photos prove it.

And of course this report, that just came out yesterday

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/26/middleeast/amit-soussana-israeli-hostage-hamas-sexual-assault-intl/index.html

I'm sure our Hamas sympathizing friends here will find a way to dismiss this, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The sadism of Hamas is what I can't get out of my head....

And the frothing over it by people here

It's sickening

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The sadism of Hamas is what I can't get out of my head....

I know. The attacking Hamas militants displayed so much anger. For me, instead of just dismissing them as “pure evil” I seek to understand why. From a Rand report:

“The phrase “mowing the grass” has been the bumper sticker version of Israeli strategy in Gaza for the last decade and a half.

It plays out in the following way: Palestinians, frustrated by the state of the enclave, turn to the likes of Hamas for, if nothing else, vengeance against Israel; Israel imposes restrictions such as the blockade on Gaza, citing security concerns; living conditions in Gaza deteriorate further, and discontent builds; Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, and others capitalize on the discontent and attack Israel; and Israel responds by “mowing the grass”—killing the perpetrators along with some number of civilians, buying at best a few years of relative peace and fueling further long-term radicalization. And so the cycle continues ad infinitum.”

Frustrated by living in a beachside paradise where they had near universal literacy, fertile ground, some of the best medical care in the world - and access to Israeli hospitals when the Palestinian care wasn't sufficient. Sounds like hell, pure hell. I've heard people who owned bakeries, hair salons, farms, and all sorts of other thriving small businesses on the radio talking about the destruction of their businesses because of this war. I didn't think hellscape prisons had that kind of prosperity and freedom.

No, they were frustrated that Israel was making peace with neighboring Arab countries. Because however good they had it, they wanted to make sure Israel never had any peace. Well, they are getting what they wanted - because of this attack, and because of Israel's response. It's not going to be peaceful there for a very long time to come. Not until Netanyahu is dead or in jail, probably. And Israel has lost support the world over, and anti-semitism is shockingly out in the open right now. So score one for them.

And also also the Palestinians lose everything they worked to build in Gaza. And their people are starving. I support Israel's right to defend itself. I believe Israel has the right to exist. I despise Israel's right wing government, Netanyahu especially. I also think both sides have brought this on themselves. It's like they are in a Greek tragedy they can't avoid. Well, I hope everyone's happy now. Sure looks grand, what these both sides have wrought.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The sadism of Hamas is what I can't get out of my head....

I know. The attacking Hamas militants displayed so much anger. For me, instead of just dismissing them as “pure evil” I seek to understand why. From a Rand report:

“The phrase “mowing the grass” has been the bumper sticker version of Israeli strategy in Gaza for the last decade and a half.

It plays out in the following way: Palestinians, frustrated by the state of the enclave, turn to the likes of Hamas for, if nothing else, vengeance against Israel; Israel imposes restrictions such as the blockade on Gaza, citing security concerns; living conditions in Gaza deteriorate further, and discontent builds; Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, and others capitalize on the discontent and attack Israel; and Israel responds by “mowing the grass”—killing the perpetrators along with some number of civilians, buying at best a few years of relative peace and fueling further long-term radicalization. And so the cycle continues ad infinitum.”

Everything is a choice, including the Palestinian choice to keep trying to attack Israel rather than pursuing more peaceful means of coexisting. There's nobody who could credibly argue that the current Palestinian strategy of violence has any hope of success yet so many keep buying into that strategy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The sadism of Hamas is what I can't get out of my head....

As opposed to bombing and then forced starvation by Israel of thousands of little kids and babies? I am really stunned by the ability of pot-Israelis to shrug off the suffering of tens of thousands of Palestinian children and the mental gymnastics of blaming the suffering on Hamas, as if Hamas made strategic decisions for the IDF and Netanyahu.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The sadism of Hamas is what I can't get out of my head....

I know. The attacking Hamas militants displayed so much anger. For me, instead of just dismissing them as “pure evil” I seek to understand why. From a Rand report:

“The phrase “mowing the grass” has been the bumper sticker version of Israeli strategy in Gaza for the last decade and a half.

It plays out in the following way: Palestinians, frustrated by the state of the enclave, turn to the likes of Hamas for, if nothing else, vengeance against Israel; Israel imposes restrictions such as the blockade on Gaza, citing security concerns; living conditions in Gaza deteriorate further, and discontent builds; Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, and others capitalize on the discontent and attack Israel; and Israel responds by “mowing the grass”—killing the perpetrators along with some number of civilians, buying at best a few years of relative peace and fueling further long-term radicalization. And so the cycle continues ad infinitum.”

Frustrated by living in a beachside paradise where they had near universal literacy, fertile ground, some of the best medical care in the world - and access to Israeli hospitals when the Palestinian care wasn't sufficient. Sounds like hell, pure hell. I've heard people who owned bakeries, hair salons, farms, and all sorts of other thriving small businesses on the radio talking about the destruction of their businesses because of this war. I didn't think hellscape prisons had that kind of prosperity and freedom.

No, they were frustrated that Israel was making peace with neighboring Arab countries. Because however good they had it, they wanted to make sure Israel never had any peace. Well, they are getting what they wanted - because of this attack, and because of Israel's response. It's not going to be peaceful there for a very long time to come. Not until Netanyahu is dead or in jail, probably. And Israel has lost support the world over, and anti-semitism is shockingly out in the open right now. So score one for them.

And also also the Palestinians lose everything they worked to build in Gaza. And their people are starving. I support Israel's right to defend itself. I believe Israel has the right to exist. I despise Israel's right wing government, Netanyahu especially. I also think both sides have brought this on themselves. It's like they are in a Greek tragedy they can't avoid. Well, I hope everyone's happy now. Sure looks grand, what these both sides have wrought.

Those Palestinian businesses, merchants and others should be frustrated that, supposedly acting on their behalf, Hamas chose to throw away all that they had for nothing more than a crude assault and bloody massacre on 10/7. I mean, what did they think would happen? How in ten thousand parallel universes would there ever have been a positive outcome from 10/7?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Israel has slaughtered 32,000 Palestinians since 10/7. Congratulations to Israel, Bibi and the Zionists for turning the world against Jews.

Nobody should be against Jews. People can and should hate the Zionists all they want, but let's never judge anyone based on their religion or ethnicity. Zionists have perverted Judaism for personal gain and power and have weaponized it to dehumanize and massacre Palestinians. Zionism is undoubtedly a hideous and racist creed, but please, let's recognize the difference between Jews and Zionists. Many Jews hate Zionism.

Well, when are Jews going to oust Bibi and his right wing religious minions?

Chuck Schumer, the most powerful Jew in American politics called for his ouster in a compelling and passionate speech.

Sadly I'm not hearing a damn thing similar to that from powerful and influential Muslims calling for the ouster of Hamas leadership.

I mean, isn't Israel supposedly ousting Hamas and its leadership? Or is that goal no longer on the agenda?

You seem confused. It's the Gazans who should be calling for the ouster of Hamas. And doing so would bring much faster humanitarian aid and relief.

The Palestinians have no homes, no food or water, no electricity, no phones or internet and they are surrounded by trigger happy Israelis and Hamas. How does your suggestion work?

That's their choice, given 71% said they are good with Hamas's bloody massacre on 10/7.

Had Hamas not launched that attack, Gazans would still be in their homes with food, water, electricity, and everything else. For all of the "yeah but" there's no getting around that.

Do you also subscribe to the “she was asking for it” theory of rape?

How completely idiotic - that's a totally wrong analogy. Hamas has launched thousands of rockets at Israel over the last several years, which would have killed many thousands, were it not for the Iron Dome. And then Hamas launched a violent assault, massacring or kidnapping civilians right and left. When you punch someone in the face and break their nose, and then that person whose nose you broke comes back with a group of friends to break your nose in return, it's NOT EVEN REMOTELY a "she asked for it because of how she was dressed" situation.

Except you seem to be overlooking the part where you're coming back with a group of friends to not just punch them in the nose (that would be a proportional response), but murdering, maiming or otherwise harming them and everyone they know, destroying their homes and possessions, and forcibly stealing their land by permanently displacing them. And that's just to this point - who knows what devious plans you have in the future?

I know proportional responses are not in your playbook because "how dare they even think to fight back!" is the Israeli ethos, but seriously - you really have a warped sense of the world around you.

How many Palestinians did Israel kidnap or massacre in the 2 years prior to 10/7? Do you think 10/7 was proportionate? (it wasn't - it was a hugely disproportionate attack by Hamas). Not to mention the thousands of rockets fired by Hamas which would have killed tens of thousands of Israelis if they hadn't been shot down by Iron Dome.

Thanks for ignoring the THOUSANDS of Palestinians Israel killed prior to the 10/7. It's like only Jewish lives matter to you genocide deniers.

I guess it's only fair if pro-Palestinians want to continually deny the Jewish genocide in WWII and centuries of other atrocities committed against Jews... I guess it's only fair if pro-Palestinians want to continually deny and ignore all of the things that precipitated Arab-Israeli wars and the repeated instances of genocidal attacks going back to the very day that Israel was partitioned.

The Jewish genocide in WWII was caused by the Germans. It had nothing to do with the Palestinians. That’s the whole problem. The Palestinians are forced to pay for the German (and European and US who rejected Jewish refugees after the war)’s sins.

Well you have to admit there was also that little bit of the Palestinians repeatedly trying to drive the Jews off of the lands they had been given by international treaty and repeatedly trying to exterminate them.

I laughed at your characterization of land theft initiated by Zionist terrorism as “international treaty”, especially in light of the flagrant disregard Israel has for international resolutions these days.

Bro, the Palestinians lost control of that land to the Ottomans. And then lost it again to the Allies. And then it was given to the Jews. The Palestinians unique and sovereign claim to the land has always been tenuous, at best.

They (Arabs) somehow didn’t mind losing it to the Muslims (Ottomans) or the Christians (Brits). They also didn’t mind Mizrahi Jewish leaders in high positions of government something Israel doesn’t even like.

What was different about the Euro Zionists colonial project ? Well, “land without people” may be one.

The only brutal colonization I can think that compares is the French 200+ year colonial era in Algeria.

What about China in Tibet?

[Anonymous]

They knew what the outcome would be and the price everyone would pay, and did it anyway. These aren't people with western values. All these people stanning for Hamas would be beheaded/raped to death if they stepped foot anywhere near them.