Gaza War, Part 3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Israel has slaughtered 32,000 Palestinians since 10/7. Congratulations to Israel, Bibi and the Zionists for turning the world against Jews.

Nobody should be against Jews. People can and should hate the Zionists all they want, but let's never judge anyone based on their religion or ethnicity. Zionists have perverted Judaism for personal gain and power and have weaponized it to dehumanize and massacre Palestinians. Zionism is undoubtedly a hideous and racist creed, but please, let's recognize the difference between Jews and Zionists. Many Jews hate Zionism.

Well, when are Jews going to oust Bibi and his right wing religious minions?

Chuck Schumer, the most powerful Jew in American politics called for his ouster in a compelling and passionate speech.

Sadly I'm not hearing a damn thing similar to that from powerful and influential Muslims calling for the ouster of Hamas leadership.

I mean, isn't Israel supposedly ousting Hamas and its leadership? Or is that goal no longer on the agenda?

You seem confused. It's the Gazans who should be calling for the ouster of Hamas. And doing so would bring much faster humanitarian aid and relief.

The Palestinians have no homes, no food or water, no electricity, no phones or internet and they are surrounded by trigger happy Israelis and Hamas. How does your suggestion work?

That's their choice, given 71% said they are good with Hamas's bloody massacre on 10/7.

Had Hamas not launched that attack, Gazans would still be in their homes with food, water, electricity, and everything else. For all of the "yeah but" there's no getting around that.

Do you also subscribe to the “she was asking for it” theory of rape?

How completely idiotic - that's a totally wrong analogy. Hamas has launched thousands of rockets at Israel over the last several years, which would have killed many thousands, were it not for the Iron Dome. And then Hamas launched a violent assault, massacring or kidnapping civilians right and left. When you punch someone in the face and break their nose, and then that person whose nose you broke comes back with a group of friends to break your nose in return, it's NOT EVEN REMOTELY a "she asked for it because of how she was dressed" situation.

Except you seem to be overlooking the part where you're coming back with a group of friends to not just punch them in the nose (that would be a proportional response), but murdering, maiming or otherwise harming them and everyone they know, destroying their homes and possessions, and forcibly stealing their land by permanently displacing them. And that's just to this point - who knows what devious plans you have in the future?

I know proportional responses are not in your playbook because "how dare they even think to fight back!" is the Israeli ethos, but seriously - you really have a warped sense of the world around you.

How many Palestinians did Israel kidnap or massacre in the 2 years prior to 10/7? Do you think 10/7 was proportionate? (it wasn't - it was a hugely disproportionate attack by Hamas). Not to mention the thousands of rockets fired by Hamas which would have killed tens of thousands of Israelis if they hadn't been shot down by Iron Dome.

Thanks for ignoring the THOUSANDS of Palestinians Israel killed prior to the 10/7. It's like only Jewish lives matter to you genocide deniers.

I guess it's only fair if pro-Palestinians want to continually deny the Jewish genocide in WWII and centuries of other atrocities committed against Jews... I guess it's only fair if pro-Palestinians want to continually deny and ignore all of the things that precipitated Arab-Israeli wars and the repeated instances of genocidal attacks going back to the very day that Israel was partitioned.

The Jewish genocide in WWII was caused by the Germans. It had nothing to do with the Palestinians. That’s the whole problem. The Palestinians are forced to pay for the German (and European and US who rejected Jewish refugees after the war)’s sins.

Well you have to admit there was also that little bit of the Palestinians repeatedly trying to drive the Jews off of the lands they had been given by international treaty and repeatedly trying to exterminate them.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Israel has slaughtered 32,000 Palestinians since 10/7. Congratulations to Israel, Bibi and the Zionists for turning the world against Jews.

Nobody should be against Jews. People can and should hate the Zionists all they want, but let's never judge anyone based on their religion or ethnicity. Zionists have perverted Judaism for personal gain and power and have weaponized it to dehumanize and massacre Palestinians. Zionism is undoubtedly a hideous and racist creed, but please, let's recognize the difference between Jews and Zionists. Many Jews hate Zionism.

Well, when are Jews going to oust Bibi and his right wing religious minions?

Chuck Schumer, the most powerful Jew in American politics called for his ouster in a compelling and passionate speech.

Sadly I'm not hearing a damn thing similar to that from powerful and influential Muslims calling for the ouster of Hamas leadership.

I mean, isn't Israel supposedly ousting Hamas and its leadership? Or is that goal no longer on the agenda?

You seem confused. It's the Gazans who should be calling for the ouster of Hamas. And doing so would bring much faster humanitarian aid and relief.

The Palestinians have no homes, no food or water, no electricity, no phones or internet and they are surrounded by trigger happy Israelis and Hamas. How does your suggestion work?

That's their choice, given 71% said they are good with Hamas's bloody massacre on 10/7.

Had Hamas not launched that attack, Gazans would still be in their homes with food, water, electricity, and everything else. For all of the "yeah but" there's no getting around that.

Do you also subscribe to the “she was asking for it” theory of rape?

How completely idiotic - that's a totally wrong analogy. Hamas has launched thousands of rockets at Israel over the last several years, which would have killed many thousands, were it not for the Iron Dome. And then Hamas launched a violent assault, massacring or kidnapping civilians right and left. When you punch someone in the face and break their nose, and then that person whose nose you broke comes back with a group of friends to break your nose in return, it's NOT EVEN REMOTELY a "she asked for it because of how she was dressed" situation.

Do you really think Israel wasn’t harming Gaza during this time? They were under a land, sea and air blockade. 2/3rds of Gazans prior to 10/7 were food insecure.

Yeah that tends to happen when you smuggle weapons. Gazans would have been a lot better off if Hamas had instead actually spent the billions it was given on peaceful things like improving the economy and sustainability of Gaza, investing in infrastructure and so on. But instead they stole all of the money and spent it on weapons and tunnels and they dug up the water lines to use the pipes for rockets, paying for Russian mercenaries to train them and so on.

How can they invest in infrastructure when Israel is gate-keeping the use of building materials? There is so much dishonesty in your Zionist statements that at this point it is best to just disengage conversing with the likes of you.

Somehow they were able to build pretty elaborate tunnels.
They built nothing for the citizens.

Gaza is more developed than the kibbutzim on the border. Has a higher literacy rate than the US , UK, Egypt, Israel or the West Bank . A cargo ship just made one of our bridges collapse today yet Israel dropped 2,000 pound bomb after bomb in hopes to penetrate tunnels but none have worked. These tunnels are stronger than our infrastructure and were clearly designed by smart engineers .

For a full land, sir, and sea blockade and a country that gets obliterated to pieces every eight or ten years , that’s highly impressive . The Arabs and Israelis talk in surprise and envy about Palestinians . The settlers purposely take the water and olives , fig groves snd trees the poor rural Palestinians cultivate in the West Bank for no reason other than envy. You don’t take something food wise if you don’t trust the people or think they’re animalistic

So, not an open air prison? But a glorious beachside paradise?

I'm not sure I understand why residents were so gung ho about slaughtering Israelis and holding them captive, if doing so would put their beautiful home at risk so badly.

No no, I know - 1948, 1967, something hateful about Zionists (spit).

And I say this, while distressed - to put it mildly - about the Israeli course of action here. I believed from the start, unlike so many of you, that Israel has a right to defend itself. But it doesn't seem like that is what it's doing now. I don't believe this is a genocide, but I do believe that Netanyahu is pursuing what is increasingly an indefensible method of rooting out Hamas because he thinks it's the only way for him to hold on for dear life. He's willing to destroy Israel to try to save himself.

But you people talking out both sides of your mouth about what life is = or was - like in Gaza does not help win you any converts. It makes you sound like you don't believe in anything other than wanting Israel to die.

But you people talking out both sides of your mouth about what life is = or was - like in Gaza does not help win you any converts. It makes you sound like you don't believe in anything other than wanting Israel to die.

I agree with this 100%.

Not PP but unsure what the disconnect is. Yes, Gaza was an open air prison prior to 10/7 with a land, sea, and air blockade. 2/3s of the population reported food instability and high rates of stress. Despite these conditions, Gazans proved themselves resourceful in using the tools at their disposal. They focused on education and had high rates of literacy, a strong medical system, and a well developed tunnel network that was designed to get them around the blockade. However, this was not a recipe for a stable and happy community and a small subset of militants were angry enough to seek retribution on 10/7. That was horrible but there was context. Israel is now starving and killing Palestinians in Gaza. Sad and tragic. Also dangerous IMO since their actions are only inspiring more hate.

Gaza has to be the first and only "prison" in all of human history to make tourism videos - from a post above:

Anonymous wrote:Before October 7, Gaza was a thriving place. It had its poor neighborhoods, and Hamas closed many places that allowed "too much" mixing by the sexes (i.e. a nice swimming complex), but it was developing. Here's a little tourist blurb-obviously, before October 7:

Here's a drone view of Gaza from 2021. What some in the media called "refugee camps" were mostly high-rise buildings:

Contradiction after contradiction after contradiction. I'm honestly sick of all of your contradictions.

I don’t really understand your point. sure, Palestinians in Gaza tried to portray the best attributes of their community. But obviously there were underlying issues (such as the Israeli sea, land and air blockade) that studies conducted just prior to 10/7 have shown to be result in 2/3 of the population being food insecure and living in conditions of high stress.

The only thing I see as contradictory is your insistence that life in Gaza was just fienand dandy vs the horrors of 10/7. Every thing in history is cause and effect. Revenge and “othering” is how our world has turned since the dawn of time. Don’t you want to on the side of history that breaks this cycle? Or are you too stuck in your narrow world view you can only see one “side”?

My issue with all of this is the lack of a consistent, coherent narrative or set of talking points on the Palestinian side. It's a nonstop barrage of hyperbolic statements, each of which then gets undermined by the next post.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Israel has slaughtered 32,000 Palestinians since 10/7. Congratulations to Israel, Bibi and the Zionists for turning the world against Jews.

Nobody should be against Jews. People can and should hate the Zionists all they want, but let's never judge anyone based on their religion or ethnicity. Zionists have perverted Judaism for personal gain and power and have weaponized it to dehumanize and massacre Palestinians. Zionism is undoubtedly a hideous and racist creed, but please, let's recognize the difference between Jews and Zionists. Many Jews hate Zionism.

Well, when are Jews going to oust Bibi and his right wing religious minions?

Chuck Schumer, the most powerful Jew in American politics called for his ouster in a compelling and passionate speech.

Sadly I'm not hearing a damn thing similar to that from powerful and influential Muslims calling for the ouster of Hamas leadership.

I mean, isn't Israel supposedly ousting Hamas and its leadership? Or is that goal no longer on the agenda?

You seem confused. It's the Gazans who should be calling for the ouster of Hamas. And doing so would bring much faster humanitarian aid and relief.

The Palestinians have no homes, no food or water, no electricity, no phones or internet and they are surrounded by trigger happy Israelis and Hamas. How does your suggestion work?

That's their choice, given 71% said they are good with Hamas's bloody massacre on 10/7.

Had Hamas not launched that attack, Gazans would still be in their homes with food, water, electricity, and everything else. For all of the "yeah but" there's no getting around that.

Do you also subscribe to the “she was asking for it” theory of rape?

How completely idiotic - that's a totally wrong analogy. Hamas has launched thousands of rockets at Israel over the last several years, which would have killed many thousands, were it not for the Iron Dome. And then Hamas launched a violent assault, massacring or kidnapping civilians right and left. When you punch someone in the face and break their nose, and then that person whose nose you broke comes back with a group of friends to break your nose in return, it's NOT EVEN REMOTELY a "she asked for it because of how she was dressed" situation.

Except you seem to be overlooking the part where you're coming back with a group of friends to not just punch them in the nose (that would be a proportional response), but murdering, maiming or otherwise harming them and everyone they know, destroying their homes and possessions, and forcibly stealing their land by permanently displacing them. And that's just to this point - who knows what devious plans you have in the future?

I know proportional responses are not in your playbook because "how dare they even think to fight back!" is the Israeli ethos, but seriously - you really have a warped sense of the world around you.

How many Palestinians did Israel kidnap or massacre in the 2 years prior to 10/7? Do you think 10/7 was proportionate? (it wasn't - it was a hugely disproportionate attack by Hamas). Not to mention the thousands of rockets fired by Hamas which would have killed tens of thousands of Israelis if they hadn't been shot down by Iron Dome.

Thanks for ignoring the THOUSANDS of Palestinians Israel killed prior to the 10/7. It's like only Jewish lives matter to you genocide deniers.

I guess it's only fair if pro-Palestinians want to continually deny the Jewish genocide in WWII and centuries of other atrocities committed against Jews... I guess it's only fair if pro-Palestinians want to continually deny and ignore all of the things that precipitated Arab-Israeli wars and the repeated instances of genocidal attacks going back to the very day that Israel was partitioned.

The Jewish genocide in WWII was caused by the Germans. It had nothing to do with the Palestinians. That’s the whole problem. The Palestinians are forced to pay for the German (and European and US who rejected Jewish refugees after the war)’s sins.

Well you have to admit there was also that little bit of the Palestinians repeatedly trying to drive the Jews off of the lands they had been given by international treaty and repeatedly trying to exterminate them.

I laughed at your characterization of land theft initiated by Zionist terrorism as “international treaty”, especially in light of the flagrant disregard Israel has for international resolutions these days.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Israel has slaughtered 32,000 Palestinians since 10/7. Congratulations to Israel, Bibi and the Zionists for turning the world against Jews.

Nobody should be against Jews. People can and should hate the Zionists all they want, but let's never judge anyone based on their religion or ethnicity. Zionists have perverted Judaism for personal gain and power and have weaponized it to dehumanize and massacre Palestinians. Zionism is undoubtedly a hideous and racist creed, but please, let's recognize the difference between Jews and Zionists. Many Jews hate Zionism.

Well, when are Jews going to oust Bibi and his right wing religious minions?

Chuck Schumer, the most powerful Jew in American politics called for his ouster in a compelling and passionate speech.

Sadly I'm not hearing a damn thing similar to that from powerful and influential Muslims calling for the ouster of Hamas leadership.

I mean, isn't Israel supposedly ousting Hamas and its leadership? Or is that goal no longer on the agenda?

You seem confused. It's the Gazans who should be calling for the ouster of Hamas. And doing so would bring much faster humanitarian aid and relief.

The Palestinians have no homes, no food or water, no electricity, no phones or internet and they are surrounded by trigger happy Israelis and Hamas. How does your suggestion work?

That's their choice, given 71% said they are good with Hamas's bloody massacre on 10/7.

Had Hamas not launched that attack, Gazans would still be in their homes with food, water, electricity, and everything else. For all of the "yeah but" there's no getting around that.

Do you also subscribe to the “she was asking for it” theory of rape?

How completely idiotic - that's a totally wrong analogy. Hamas has launched thousands of rockets at Israel over the last several years, which would have killed many thousands, were it not for the Iron Dome. And then Hamas launched a violent assault, massacring or kidnapping civilians right and left. When you punch someone in the face and break their nose, and then that person whose nose you broke comes back with a group of friends to break your nose in return, it's NOT EVEN REMOTELY a "she asked for it because of how she was dressed" situation.

Except you seem to be overlooking the part where you're coming back with a group of friends to not just punch them in the nose (that would be a proportional response), but murdering, maiming or otherwise harming them and everyone they know, destroying their homes and possessions, and forcibly stealing their land by permanently displacing them. And that's just to this point - who knows what devious plans you have in the future?

I know proportional responses are not in your playbook because "how dare they even think to fight back!" is the Israeli ethos, but seriously - you really have a warped sense of the world around you.

How many Palestinians did Israel kidnap or massacre in the 2 years prior to 10/7? Do you think 10/7 was proportionate? (it wasn't - it was a hugely disproportionate attack by Hamas). Not to mention the thousands of rockets fired by Hamas which would have killed tens of thousands of Israelis if they hadn't been shot down by Iron Dome.

Anyone in administrative detention is kidnapped.

Sure and nobody in any prison anywhere ever committed a crime

If they committed a crime, then charge and try.

They get military hearings where the charges and evidence against them is presented. And they are typically released after a few months. If the charges are more serious they are kept longer. But as usual you go on pretending it's "kidnappings" and that it's a total mystery and nobody knows why they are picked up, because that's exactly the narrative that Hamas wants you to have...

Do better, hasbara! Administrative detainees never get charged, and they don't get to examine evidence against them.

But maybe you think it's all right to hold people without charge and then "release after a few months". How magnanimous!

Hey troll - you know your Russian friends do the same thing - kidnap people and hold them indefinitely without a trial, without any due process, or sharing any evidence, for example this American journalist held for supposed "espionage" yet they haven't proven it with any evidence, aren't allowing him a trial or anything else - https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/26/world/europe/evan-gershkovich-russia-prison.html - along with thousands of political dissidents, protesters, et cetera. That is, if they don't just assassinate them outright. Seems pretty hypocritical to be whining about Israel for doing this while you are closely aligned to Russia, which is doing far worse.

Russia doesn’t cosplay as light onto nations or get $3 billion of our money a year.

Not to mention it would be difficult for a country to be more aligned with Russia than Israel, considering Israel’s government has been led by former Soviet imports since inception.

If you want to know what Israel is up to, just pay attention to what they are accusing others of doing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The initial mischaracterization can charitably be chalked up to the immediate confusion of the situation and a game of telephone. However the continued trumpeting and amplification of the bad information after the first few days was a craven deliberate lie.

bad information like all the people they actually killed? downplaying 10/7 does you no favors.

Bad information like baking babies in oven etc. It was pretty clear. That didn't happen. Saying it didn't happen doesn't downplay anything.

It's a bit absurd to demand that we all pretend that something happened which didn't. The attack was horrific enough as is, lying to make it seem worse does not help anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Israel has slaughtered 32,000 Palestinians since 10/7. Congratulations to Israel, Bibi and the Zionists for turning the world against Jews.

Nobody should be against Jews. People can and should hate the Zionists all they want, but let's never judge anyone based on their religion or ethnicity. Zionists have perverted Judaism for personal gain and power and have weaponized it to dehumanize and massacre Palestinians. Zionism is undoubtedly a hideous and racist creed, but please, let's recognize the difference between Jews and Zionists. Many Jews hate Zionism.

Well, when are Jews going to oust Bibi and his right wing religious minions?

Chuck Schumer, the most powerful Jew in American politics called for his ouster in a compelling and passionate speech.

Sadly I'm not hearing a damn thing similar to that from powerful and influential Muslims calling for the ouster of Hamas leadership.

I mean, isn't Israel supposedly ousting Hamas and its leadership? Or is that goal no longer on the agenda?

You seem confused. It's the Gazans who should be calling for the ouster of Hamas. And doing so would bring much faster humanitarian aid and relief.

The Palestinians have no homes, no food or water, no electricity, no phones or internet and they are surrounded by trigger happy Israelis and Hamas. How does your suggestion work?

That's their choice, given 71% said they are good with Hamas's bloody massacre on 10/7.

Had Hamas not launched that attack, Gazans would still be in their homes with food, water, electricity, and everything else. For all of the "yeah but" there's no getting around that.

Do you also subscribe to the “she was asking for it” theory of rape?

How completely idiotic - that's a totally wrong analogy. Hamas has launched thousands of rockets at Israel over the last several years, which would have killed many thousands, were it not for the Iron Dome. And then Hamas launched a violent assault, massacring or kidnapping civilians right and left. When you punch someone in the face and break their nose, and then that person whose nose you broke comes back with a group of friends to break your nose in return, it's NOT EVEN REMOTELY a "she asked for it because of how she was dressed" situation.

Except you seem to be overlooking the part where you're coming back with a group of friends to not just punch them in the nose (that would be a proportional response), but murdering, maiming or otherwise harming them and everyone they know, destroying their homes and possessions, and forcibly stealing their land by permanently displacing them. And that's just to this point - who knows what devious plans you have in the future?

I know proportional responses are not in your playbook because "how dare they even think to fight back!" is the Israeli ethos, but seriously - you really have a warped sense of the world around you.

How many Palestinians did Israel kidnap or massacre in the 2 years prior to 10/7? Do you think 10/7 was proportionate? (it wasn't - it was a hugely disproportionate attack by Hamas). Not to mention the thousands of rockets fired by Hamas which would have killed tens of thousands of Israelis if they hadn't been shot down by Iron Dome.

Thanks for ignoring the THOUSANDS of Palestinians Israel killed prior to the 10/7. It's like only Jewish lives matter to you genocide deniers.

I guess it's only fair if pro-Palestinians want to continually deny the Jewish genocide in WWII and centuries of other atrocities committed against Jews... I guess it's only fair if pro-Palestinians want to continually deny and ignore all of the things that precipitated Arab-Israeli wars and the repeated instances of genocidal attacks going back to the very day that Israel was partitioned.

The Jewish genocide in WWII was caused by the Germans. It had nothing to do with the Palestinians. That’s the whole problem. The Palestinians are forced to pay for the German (and European and US who rejected Jewish refugees after the war)’s sins.

Well you have to admit there was also that little bit of the Palestinians repeatedly trying to drive the Jews off of the lands they had been given by international treaty and repeatedly trying to exterminate them.

And the Jews did the same thing to the Palestinians. Moving on.

Not to be too pedantic but the UN didn't give anybody any land in 1948. It gave the right to organize a government within a set territory. All the people that lived within the territory were supposed to be that government's citizens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Israel has slaughtered 32,000 Palestinians since 10/7. Congratulations to Israel, Bibi and the Zionists for turning the world against Jews.

Nobody should be against Jews. People can and should hate the Zionists all they want, but let's never judge anyone based on their religion or ethnicity. Zionists have perverted Judaism for personal gain and power and have weaponized it to dehumanize and massacre Palestinians. Zionism is undoubtedly a hideous and racist creed, but please, let's recognize the difference between Jews and Zionists. Many Jews hate Zionism.

Well, when are Jews going to oust Bibi and his right wing religious minions?

Chuck Schumer, the most powerful Jew in American politics called for his ouster in a compelling and passionate speech.

Sadly I'm not hearing a damn thing similar to that from powerful and influential Muslims calling for the ouster of Hamas leadership.

I mean, isn't Israel supposedly ousting Hamas and its leadership? Or is that goal no longer on the agenda?

You seem confused. It's the Gazans who should be calling for the ouster of Hamas. And doing so would bring much faster humanitarian aid and relief.

The Palestinians have no homes, no food or water, no electricity, no phones or internet and they are surrounded by trigger happy Israelis and Hamas. How does your suggestion work?

That's their choice, given 71% said they are good with Hamas's bloody massacre on 10/7.

Had Hamas not launched that attack, Gazans would still be in their homes with food, water, electricity, and everything else. For all of the "yeah but" there's no getting around that.

Do you also subscribe to the “she was asking for it” theory of rape?

How completely idiotic - that's a totally wrong analogy. Hamas has launched thousands of rockets at Israel over the last several years, which would have killed many thousands, were it not for the Iron Dome. And then Hamas launched a violent assault, massacring or kidnapping civilians right and left. When you punch someone in the face and break their nose, and then that person whose nose you broke comes back with a group of friends to break your nose in return, it's NOT EVEN REMOTELY a "she asked for it because of how she was dressed" situation.

Do you really think Israel wasn’t harming Gaza during this time? They were under a land, sea and air blockade. 2/3rds of Gazans prior to 10/7 were food insecure.

Yeah that tends to happen when you smuggle weapons. Gazans would have been a lot better off if Hamas had instead actually spent the billions it was given on peaceful things like improving the economy and sustainability of Gaza, investing in infrastructure and so on. But instead they stole all of the money and spent it on weapons and tunnels and they dug up the water lines to use the pipes for rockets, paying for Russian mercenaries to train them and so on.

How can they invest in infrastructure when Israel is gate-keeping the use of building materials? There is so much dishonesty in your Zionist statements that at this point it is best to just disengage conversing with the likes of you.

Somehow they were able to build pretty elaborate tunnels.
They built nothing for the citizens.

Gaza is more developed than the kibbutzim on the border. Has a higher literacy rate than the US , UK, Egypt, Israel or the West Bank . A cargo ship just made one of our bridges collapse today yet Israel dropped 2,000 pound bomb after bomb in hopes to penetrate tunnels but none have worked. These tunnels are stronger than our infrastructure and were clearly designed by smart engineers .

For a full land, sir, and sea blockade and a country that gets obliterated to pieces every eight or ten years , that’s highly impressive . The Arabs and Israelis talk in surprise and envy about Palestinians . The settlers purposely take the water and olives , fig groves snd trees the poor rural Palestinians cultivate in the West Bank for no reason other than envy. You don’t take something food wise if you don’t trust the people or think they’re animalistic

So, not an open air prison? But a glorious beachside paradise?

I'm not sure I understand why residents were so gung ho about slaughtering Israelis and holding them captive, if doing so would put their beautiful home at risk so badly.

No no, I know - 1948, 1967, something hateful about Zionists (spit).

And I say this, while distressed - to put it mildly - about the Israeli course of action here. I believed from the start, unlike so many of you, that Israel has a right to defend itself. But it doesn't seem like that is what it's doing now. I don't believe this is a genocide, but I do believe that Netanyahu is pursuing what is increasingly an indefensible method of rooting out Hamas because he thinks it's the only way for him to hold on for dear life. He's willing to destroy Israel to try to save himself.

But you people talking out both sides of your mouth about what life is = or was - like in Gaza does not help win you any converts. It makes you sound like you don't believe in anything other than wanting Israel to die.

But you people talking out both sides of your mouth about what life is = or was - like in Gaza does not help win you any converts. It makes you sound like you don't believe in anything other than wanting Israel to die.

I agree with this 100%.

Not PP but unsure what the disconnect is. Yes, Gaza was an open air prison prior to 10/7 with a land, sea, and air blockade. 2/3s of the population reported food instability and high rates of stress. Despite these conditions, Gazans proved themselves resourceful in using the tools at their disposal. They focused on education and had high rates of literacy, a strong medical system, and a well developed tunnel network that was designed to get them around the blockade. However, this was not a recipe for a stable and happy community and a small subset of militants were angry enough to seek retribution on 10/7. That was horrible but there was context. Israel is now starving and killing Palestinians in Gaza. Sad and tragic. Also dangerous IMO since their actions are only inspiring more hate.

Gaza has to be the first and only "prison" in all of human history to make tourism videos - from a post above:

Anonymous wrote:Before October 7, Gaza was a thriving place. It had its poor neighborhoods, and Hamas closed many places that allowed "too much" mixing by the sexes (i.e. a nice swimming complex), but it was developing. Here's a little tourist blurb-obviously, before October 7:

Here's a drone view of Gaza from 2021. What some in the media called "refugee camps" were mostly high-rise buildings:

Contradiction after contradiction after contradiction. I'm honestly sick of all of your contradictions.

I don’t really understand your point. sure, Palestinians in Gaza tried to portray the best attributes of their community. But obviously there were underlying issues (such as the Israeli sea, land and air blockade) that studies conducted just prior to 10/7 have shown to be result in 2/3 of the population being food insecure and living in conditions of high stress.

The only thing I see as contradictory is your insistence that life in Gaza was just fienand dandy vs the horrors of 10/7. Every thing in history is cause and effect. Revenge and “othering” is how our world has turned since the dawn of time. Don’t you want to on the side of history that breaks this cycle? Or are you too stuck in your narrow world view you can only see one “side”?

My issue with all of this is the lack of a consistent, coherent narrative or set of talking points on the Palestinian side. It's a nonstop barrage of hyperbolic statements, each of which then gets undermined by the next post.

“Coherent narrative”? Real life is not a coherent narrative. And I’m not from the “Palestinian side”. My Dad is an atheist but of Jewish Ukrainian descent so I would have been rounded up by Hitler (if I wasn’t being spit on for being Irish on my mom’s side). My Dad is married to a woman of Norwegian descent who converted to Judaism and attend synagog regularly. She keeps kosher so that “her friends are welcome in their home” but my Dad and my kids have to eat on separate plates because we mix meat with cheese. And there is more! I’m married to an observant Hindu DESI raising kids who range from atheist to questioning (and who simply can’t wrap their minds around how they have a greater claim to Israeli citizenship than a Palestinian from Gaza). I have travelled in the Middle East (2003-4) which was eye opening for me (all the stories I was raised on about Israel being a people without land finding a land without people was a lie. I heard multiple first hand accounts of Palestinians being forced from their homes). I write all of this to highlight a small sliver of how live is complicated and any “cohesive narrative” is result of a PR machine.

Yes. There are two sides+ to every story.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Israel has slaughtered 32,000 Palestinians since 10/7. Congratulations to Israel, Bibi and the Zionists for turning the world against Jews.

Nobody should be against Jews. People can and should hate the Zionists all they want, but let's never judge anyone based on their religion or ethnicity. Zionists have perverted Judaism for personal gain and power and have weaponized it to dehumanize and massacre Palestinians. Zionism is undoubtedly a hideous and racist creed, but please, let's recognize the difference between Jews and Zionists. Many Jews hate Zionism.

Well, when are Jews going to oust Bibi and his right wing religious minions?

Chuck Schumer, the most powerful Jew in American politics called for his ouster in a compelling and passionate speech.

Sadly I'm not hearing a damn thing similar to that from powerful and influential Muslims calling for the ouster of Hamas leadership.

I mean, isn't Israel supposedly ousting Hamas and its leadership? Or is that goal no longer on the agenda?

You seem confused. It's the Gazans who should be calling for the ouster of Hamas. And doing so would bring much faster humanitarian aid and relief.

The Palestinians have no homes, no food or water, no electricity, no phones or internet and they are surrounded by trigger happy Israelis and Hamas. How does your suggestion work?

That's their choice, given 71% said they are good with Hamas's bloody massacre on 10/7.

Had Hamas not launched that attack, Gazans would still be in their homes with food, water, electricity, and everything else. For all of the "yeah but" there's no getting around that.

Do you also subscribe to the “she was asking for it” theory of rape?

How completely idiotic - that's a totally wrong analogy. Hamas has launched thousands of rockets at Israel over the last several years, which would have killed many thousands, were it not for the Iron Dome. And then Hamas launched a violent assault, massacring or kidnapping civilians right and left. When you punch someone in the face and break their nose, and then that person whose nose you broke comes back with a group of friends to break your nose in return, it's NOT EVEN REMOTELY a "she asked for it because of how she was dressed" situation.

Except you seem to be overlooking the part where you're coming back with a group of friends to not just punch them in the nose (that would be a proportional response), but murdering, maiming or otherwise harming them and everyone they know, destroying their homes and possessions, and forcibly stealing their land by permanently displacing them. And that's just to this point - who knows what devious plans you have in the future?

I know proportional responses are not in your playbook because "how dare they even think to fight back!" is the Israeli ethos, but seriously - you really have a warped sense of the world around you.

How many Palestinians did Israel kidnap or massacre in the 2 years prior to 10/7? Do you think 10/7 was proportionate? (it wasn't - it was a hugely disproportionate attack by Hamas). Not to mention the thousands of rockets fired by Hamas which would have killed tens of thousands of Israelis if they hadn't been shot down by Iron Dome.

Thanks for ignoring the THOUSANDS of Palestinians Israel killed prior to the 10/7. It's like only Jewish lives matter to you genocide deniers.

I guess it's only fair if pro-Palestinians want to continually deny the Jewish genocide in WWII and centuries of other atrocities committed against Jews... I guess it's only fair if pro-Palestinians want to continually deny and ignore all of the things that precipitated Arab-Israeli wars and the repeated instances of genocidal attacks going back to the very day that Israel was partitioned.

The Jewish genocide in WWII was caused by the Germans. It had nothing to do with the Palestinians. That’s the whole problem. The Palestinians are forced to pay for the German (and European and US who rejected Jewish refugees after the war)’s sins.

Well you have to admit there was also that little bit of the Palestinians repeatedly trying to drive the Jews off of the lands they had been given by international treaty and repeatedly trying to exterminate them.

The body that provided the “international treaty” is the U.N. The U.N. just called for an immediate ceasefire. How do you reconciling your mind they are right in the first instance wrong in the second? I truly want to understand your logic.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Israel has slaughtered 32,000 Palestinians since 10/7. Congratulations to Israel, Bibi and the Zionists for turning the world against Jews.

Nobody should be against Jews. People can and should hate the Zionists all they want, but let's never judge anyone based on their religion or ethnicity. Zionists have perverted Judaism for personal gain and power and have weaponized it to dehumanize and massacre Palestinians. Zionism is undoubtedly a hideous and racist creed, but please, let's recognize the difference between Jews and Zionists. Many Jews hate Zionism.

Well, when are Jews going to oust Bibi and his right wing religious minions?

Chuck Schumer, the most powerful Jew in American politics called for his ouster in a compelling and passionate speech.

Sadly I'm not hearing a damn thing similar to that from powerful and influential Muslims calling for the ouster of Hamas leadership.

I mean, isn't Israel supposedly ousting Hamas and its leadership? Or is that goal no longer on the agenda?

You seem confused. It's the Gazans who should be calling for the ouster of Hamas. And doing so would bring much faster humanitarian aid and relief.

The Palestinians have no homes, no food or water, no electricity, no phones or internet and they are surrounded by trigger happy Israelis and Hamas. How does your suggestion work?

That's their choice, given 71% said they are good with Hamas's bloody massacre on 10/7.

Had Hamas not launched that attack, Gazans would still be in their homes with food, water, electricity, and everything else. For all of the "yeah but" there's no getting around that.

Do you also subscribe to the “she was asking for it” theory of rape?

How completely idiotic - that's a totally wrong analogy. Hamas has launched thousands of rockets at Israel over the last several years, which would have killed many thousands, were it not for the Iron Dome. And then Hamas launched a violent assault, massacring or kidnapping civilians right and left. When you punch someone in the face and break their nose, and then that person whose nose you broke comes back with a group of friends to break your nose in return, it's NOT EVEN REMOTELY a "she asked for it because of how she was dressed" situation.

Except you seem to be overlooking the part where you're coming back with a group of friends to not just punch them in the nose (that would be a proportional response), but murdering, maiming or otherwise harming them and everyone they know, destroying their homes and possessions, and forcibly stealing their land by permanently displacing them. And that's just to this point - who knows what devious plans you have in the future?

I know proportional responses are not in your playbook because "how dare they even think to fight back!" is the Israeli ethos, but seriously - you really have a warped sense of the world around you.

How many Palestinians did Israel kidnap or massacre in the 2 years prior to 10/7? Do you think 10/7 was proportionate? (it wasn't - it was a hugely disproportionate attack by Hamas). Not to mention the thousands of rockets fired by Hamas which would have killed tens of thousands of Israelis if they hadn't been shot down by Iron Dome.

Thanks for ignoring the THOUSANDS of Palestinians Israel killed prior to the 10/7. It's like only Jewish lives matter to you genocide deniers.

I guess it's only fair if pro-Palestinians want to continually deny the Jewish genocide in WWII and centuries of other atrocities committed against Jews... I guess it's only fair if pro-Palestinians want to continually deny and ignore all of the things that precipitated Arab-Israeli wars and the repeated instances of genocidal attacks going back to the very day that Israel was partitioned.

The Jewish genocide in WWII was caused by the Germans. It had nothing to do with the Palestinians. That’s the whole problem. The Palestinians are forced to pay for the German (and European and US who rejected Jewish refugees after the war)’s sins.

Well you have to admit there was also that little bit of the Palestinians repeatedly trying to drive the Jews off of the lands they had been given by international treaty and repeatedly trying to exterminate them.

I laughed at your characterization of land theft initiated by Zionist terrorism as “international treaty”, especially in light of the flagrant disregard Israel has for international resolutions these days.

Bro, the Palestinians lost control of that land to the Ottomans. And then lost it again to the Allies. And then it was given to the Jews. The Palestinians unique and sovereign claim to the land has always been tenuous, at best.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Israel has slaughtered 32,000 Palestinians since 10/7. Congratulations to Israel, Bibi and the Zionists for turning the world against Jews.

Nobody should be against Jews. People can and should hate the Zionists all they want, but let's never judge anyone based on their religion or ethnicity. Zionists have perverted Judaism for personal gain and power and have weaponized it to dehumanize and massacre Palestinians. Zionism is undoubtedly a hideous and racist creed, but please, let's recognize the difference between Jews and Zionists. Many Jews hate Zionism.

Well, when are Jews going to oust Bibi and his right wing religious minions?

Chuck Schumer, the most powerful Jew in American politics called for his ouster in a compelling and passionate speech.

Sadly I'm not hearing a damn thing similar to that from powerful and influential Muslims calling for the ouster of Hamas leadership.

I mean, isn't Israel supposedly ousting Hamas and its leadership? Or is that goal no longer on the agenda?

You seem confused. It's the Gazans who should be calling for the ouster of Hamas. And doing so would bring much faster humanitarian aid and relief.

The Palestinians have no homes, no food or water, no electricity, no phones or internet and they are surrounded by trigger happy Israelis and Hamas. How does your suggestion work?

That's their choice, given 71% said they are good with Hamas's bloody massacre on 10/7.

Had Hamas not launched that attack, Gazans would still be in their homes with food, water, electricity, and everything else. For all of the "yeah but" there's no getting around that.

Do you also subscribe to the “she was asking for it” theory of rape?

How completely idiotic - that's a totally wrong analogy. Hamas has launched thousands of rockets at Israel over the last several years, which would have killed many thousands, were it not for the Iron Dome. And then Hamas launched a violent assault, massacring or kidnapping civilians right and left. When you punch someone in the face and break their nose, and then that person whose nose you broke comes back with a group of friends to break your nose in return, it's NOT EVEN REMOTELY a "she asked for it because of how she was dressed" situation.

Except you seem to be overlooking the part where you're coming back with a group of friends to not just punch them in the nose (that would be a proportional response), but murdering, maiming or otherwise harming them and everyone they know, destroying their homes and possessions, and forcibly stealing their land by permanently displacing them. And that's just to this point - who knows what devious plans you have in the future?

I know proportional responses are not in your playbook because "how dare they even think to fight back!" is the Israeli ethos, but seriously - you really have a warped sense of the world around you.

How many Palestinians did Israel kidnap or massacre in the 2 years prior to 10/7? Do you think 10/7 was proportionate? (it wasn't - it was a hugely disproportionate attack by Hamas). Not to mention the thousands of rockets fired by Hamas which would have killed tens of thousands of Israelis if they hadn't been shot down by Iron Dome.

Thanks for ignoring the THOUSANDS of Palestinians Israel killed prior to the 10/7. It's like only Jewish lives matter to you genocide deniers.

I guess it's only fair if pro-Palestinians want to continually deny the Jewish genocide in WWII and centuries of other atrocities committed against Jews... I guess it's only fair if pro-Palestinians want to continually deny and ignore all of the things that precipitated Arab-Israeli wars and the repeated instances of genocidal attacks going back to the very day that Israel was partitioned.

The Jewish genocide in WWII was caused by the Germans. It had nothing to do with the Palestinians. That’s the whole problem. The Palestinians are forced to pay for the German (and European and US who rejected Jewish refugees after the war)’s sins.

Well you have to admit there was also that little bit of the Palestinians repeatedly trying to drive the Jews off of the lands they had been given by international treaty and repeatedly trying to exterminate them.

The body that provided the “international treaty” is the U.N. The U.N. just called for an immediate ceasefire. How do you reconciling your mind they are right in the first instance wrong in the second? I truly want to understand your logic.

Why should Israel agree to a ceasefire when Hamas won't agree to the UN's demands? Hamas was already ordered to UNCONDITIONALLY surrender all hostages. But what did they do? They refused, and continue to hide them. Hamas was also named in the ceasefire orders, but what did Hamas do? They continued attacking in violation of the ceasefire. A ceasefire cannot be unilateral. That's completely unreasonable and irrational.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The initial mischaracterization can charitably be chalked up to the immediate confusion of the situation and a game of telephone. However the continued trumpeting and amplification of the bad information after the first few days was a craven deliberate lie.

bad information like all the people they actually killed? downplaying 10/7 does you no favors.

Bad information like baking babies in oven etc. It was pretty clear. That didn't happen. Saying it didn't happen doesn't downplay anything.

It's a bit absurd to demand that we all pretend that something happened which didn't. The attack was horrific enough as is, lying to make it seem worse does not help anything.

It's also bad information to claim there were no rapes or sexual assaults committed by Hamas when for example there was video of the body of the German girl taken from the concert paraded around naked in the back of a Hamas vehicle. Yet you seem to be demanding we pretend none of that happened when it absolutely did and the video and photos prove it.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Israel has slaughtered 32,000 Palestinians since 10/7. Congratulations to Israel, Bibi and the Zionists for turning the world against Jews.

Nobody should be against Jews. People can and should hate the Zionists all they want, but let's never judge anyone based on their religion or ethnicity. Zionists have perverted Judaism for personal gain and power and have weaponized it to dehumanize and massacre Palestinians. Zionism is undoubtedly a hideous and racist creed, but please, let's recognize the difference between Jews and Zionists. Many Jews hate Zionism.

Well, when are Jews going to oust Bibi and his right wing religious minions?

Chuck Schumer, the most powerful Jew in American politics called for his ouster in a compelling and passionate speech.

Sadly I'm not hearing a damn thing similar to that from powerful and influential Muslims calling for the ouster of Hamas leadership.

I mean, isn't Israel supposedly ousting Hamas and its leadership? Or is that goal no longer on the agenda?

You seem confused. It's the Gazans who should be calling for the ouster of Hamas. And doing so would bring much faster humanitarian aid and relief.

The Palestinians have no homes, no food or water, no electricity, no phones or internet and they are surrounded by trigger happy Israelis and Hamas. How does your suggestion work?

That's their choice, given 71% said they are good with Hamas's bloody massacre on 10/7.

Had Hamas not launched that attack, Gazans would still be in their homes with food, water, electricity, and everything else. For all of the "yeah but" there's no getting around that.

Do you also subscribe to the “she was asking for it” theory of rape?

How completely idiotic - that's a totally wrong analogy. Hamas has launched thousands of rockets at Israel over the last several years, which would have killed many thousands, were it not for the Iron Dome. And then Hamas launched a violent assault, massacring or kidnapping civilians right and left. When you punch someone in the face and break their nose, and then that person whose nose you broke comes back with a group of friends to break your nose in return, it's NOT EVEN REMOTELY a "she asked for it because of how she was dressed" situation.

Except you seem to be overlooking the part where you're coming back with a group of friends to not just punch them in the nose (that would be a proportional response), but murdering, maiming or otherwise harming them and everyone they know, destroying their homes and possessions, and forcibly stealing their land by permanently displacing them. And that's just to this point - who knows what devious plans you have in the future?

I know proportional responses are not in your playbook because "how dare they even think to fight back!" is the Israeli ethos, but seriously - you really have a warped sense of the world around you.

How many Palestinians did Israel kidnap or massacre in the 2 years prior to 10/7? Do you think 10/7 was proportionate? (it wasn't - it was a hugely disproportionate attack by Hamas). Not to mention the thousands of rockets fired by Hamas which would have killed tens of thousands of Israelis if they hadn't been shot down by Iron Dome.

Thanks for ignoring the THOUSANDS of Palestinians Israel killed prior to the 10/7. It's like only Jewish lives matter to you genocide deniers.

I guess it's only fair if pro-Palestinians want to continually deny the Jewish genocide in WWII and centuries of other atrocities committed against Jews... I guess it's only fair if pro-Palestinians want to continually deny and ignore all of the things that precipitated Arab-Israeli wars and the repeated instances of genocidal attacks going back to the very day that Israel was partitioned.

The Jewish genocide in WWII was caused by the Germans. It had nothing to do with the Palestinians. That’s the whole problem. The Palestinians are forced to pay for the German (and European and US who rejected Jewish refugees after the war)’s sins.

Well you have to admit there was also that little bit of the Palestinians repeatedly trying to drive the Jews off of the lands they had been given by international treaty and repeatedly trying to exterminate them.

I laughed at your characterization of land theft initiated by Zionist terrorism as “international treaty”, especially in light of the flagrant disregard Israel has for international resolutions these days.

Bro, the Palestinians lost control of that land to the Ottomans. And then lost it again to the Allies. And then it was given to the Jews. The Palestinians unique and sovereign claim to the land has always been tenuous, at best.

They (Arabs) somehow didn’t mind losing it to the Muslims (Ottomans) or the Christians (Brits). They also didn’t mind Mizrahi Jewish leaders in high positions of government something Israel doesn’t even like.

What was different about the Euro Zionists colonial project ? Well, “land without people” may be one.

The only brutal colonization I can think that compares is the French 200+ year colonial era in Algeria.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Israel has slaughtered 32,000 Palestinians since 10/7. Congratulations to Israel, Bibi and the Zionists for turning the world against Jews.

Nobody should be against Jews. People can and should hate the Zionists all they want, but let's never judge anyone based on their religion or ethnicity. Zionists have perverted Judaism for personal gain and power and have weaponized it to dehumanize and massacre Palestinians. Zionism is undoubtedly a hideous and racist creed, but please, let's recognize the difference between Jews and Zionists. Many Jews hate Zionism.

Well, when are Jews going to oust Bibi and his right wing religious minions?

Chuck Schumer, the most powerful Jew in American politics called for his ouster in a compelling and passionate speech.

Sadly I'm not hearing a damn thing similar to that from powerful and influential Muslims calling for the ouster of Hamas leadership.

I mean, isn't Israel supposedly ousting Hamas and its leadership? Or is that goal no longer on the agenda?

You seem confused. It's the Gazans who should be calling for the ouster of Hamas. And doing so would bring much faster humanitarian aid and relief.

The Palestinians have no homes, no food or water, no electricity, no phones or internet and they are surrounded by trigger happy Israelis and Hamas. How does your suggestion work?

That's their choice, given 71% said they are good with Hamas's bloody massacre on 10/7.

Had Hamas not launched that attack, Gazans would still be in their homes with food, water, electricity, and everything else. For all of the "yeah but" there's no getting around that.

Do you also subscribe to the “she was asking for it” theory of rape?

How completely idiotic - that's a totally wrong analogy. Hamas has launched thousands of rockets at Israel over the last several years, which would have killed many thousands, were it not for the Iron Dome. And then Hamas launched a violent assault, massacring or kidnapping civilians right and left. When you punch someone in the face and break their nose, and then that person whose nose you broke comes back with a group of friends to break your nose in return, it's NOT EVEN REMOTELY a "she asked for it because of how she was dressed" situation.

Do you really think Israel wasn’t harming Gaza during this time? They were under a land, sea and air blockade. 2/3rds of Gazans prior to 10/7 were food insecure.

Yeah that tends to happen when you smuggle weapons. Gazans would have been a lot better off if Hamas had instead actually spent the billions it was given on peaceful things like improving the economy and sustainability of Gaza, investing in infrastructure and so on. But instead they stole all of the money and spent it on weapons and tunnels and they dug up the water lines to use the pipes for rockets, paying for Russian mercenaries to train them and so on.

How can they invest in infrastructure when Israel is gate-keeping the use of building materials? There is so much dishonesty in your Zionist statements that at this point it is best to just disengage conversing with the likes of you.

Somehow they were able to build pretty elaborate tunnels.
They built nothing for the citizens.

Gaza is more developed than the kibbutzim on the border. Has a higher literacy rate than the US , UK, Egypt, Israel or the West Bank . A cargo ship just made one of our bridges collapse today yet Israel dropped 2,000 pound bomb after bomb in hopes to penetrate tunnels but none have worked. These tunnels are stronger than our infrastructure and were clearly designed by smart engineers .

For a full land, sir, and sea blockade and a country that gets obliterated to pieces every eight or ten years , that’s highly impressive . The Arabs and Israelis talk in surprise and envy about Palestinians . The settlers purposely take the water and olives , fig groves snd trees the poor rural Palestinians cultivate in the West Bank for no reason other than envy. You don’t take something food wise if you don’t trust the people or think they’re animalistic

So, not an open air prison? But a glorious beachside paradise?

I'm not sure I understand why residents were so gung ho about slaughtering Israelis and holding them captive, if doing so would put their beautiful home at risk so badly.

No no, I know - 1948, 1967, something hateful about Zionists (spit).

And I say this, while distressed - to put it mildly - about the Israeli course of action here. I believed from the start, unlike so many of you, that Israel has a right to defend itself. But it doesn't seem like that is what it's doing now. I don't believe this is a genocide, but I do believe that Netanyahu is pursuing what is increasingly an indefensible method of rooting out Hamas because he thinks it's the only way for him to hold on for dear life. He's willing to destroy Israel to try to save himself.

But you people talking out both sides of your mouth about what life is = or was - like in Gaza does not help win you any converts. It makes you sound like you don't believe in anything other than wanting Israel to die.

But you people talking out both sides of your mouth about what life is = or was - like in Gaza does not help win you any converts. It makes you sound like you don't believe in anything other than wanting Israel to die.

I agree with this 100%.

Not PP but unsure what the disconnect is. Yes, Gaza was an open air prison prior to 10/7 with a land, sea, and air blockade. 2/3s of the population reported food instability and high rates of stress. Despite these conditions, Gazans proved themselves resourceful in using the tools at their disposal. They focused on education and had high rates of literacy, a strong medical system, and a well developed tunnel network that was designed to get them around the blockade. However, this was not a recipe for a stable and happy community and a small subset of militants were angry enough to seek retribution on 10/7. That was horrible but there was context. Israel is now starving and killing Palestinians in Gaza. Sad and tragic. Also dangerous IMO since their actions are only inspiring more hate.

Gaza has to be the first and only "prison" in all of human history to make tourism videos - from a post above:

Anonymous wrote:Before October 7, Gaza was a thriving place. It had its poor neighborhoods, and Hamas closed many places that allowed "too much" mixing by the sexes (i.e. a nice swimming complex), but it was developing. Here's a little tourist blurb-obviously, before October 7:

Here's a drone view of Gaza from 2021. What some in the media called "refugee camps" were mostly high-rise buildings:

Contradiction after contradiction after contradiction. I'm honestly sick of all of your contradictions.

I don’t really understand your point. sure, Palestinians in Gaza tried to portray the best attributes of their community. But obviously there were underlying issues (such as the Israeli sea, land and air blockade) that studies conducted just prior to 10/7 have shown to be result in 2/3 of the population being food insecure and living in conditions of high stress.

The only thing I see as contradictory is your insistence that life in Gaza was just fienand dandy vs the horrors of 10/7. Every thing in history is cause and effect. Revenge and “othering” is how our world has turned since the dawn of time. Don’t you want to on the side of history that breaks this cycle? Or are you too stuck in your narrow world view you can only see one “side”?

My issue with all of this is the lack of a consistent, coherent narrative or set of talking points on the Palestinian side. It's a nonstop barrage of hyperbolic statements, each of which then gets undermined by the next post.

+ 1. It’s infuriating; I hate being lied to and manipulated!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Israel has slaughtered 32,000 Palestinians since 10/7. Congratulations to Israel, Bibi and the Zionists for turning the world against Jews.

Nobody should be against Jews. People can and should hate the Zionists all they want, but let's never judge anyone based on their religion or ethnicity. Zionists have perverted Judaism for personal gain and power and have weaponized it to dehumanize and massacre Palestinians. Zionism is undoubtedly a hideous and racist creed, but please, let's recognize the difference between Jews and Zionists. Many Jews hate Zionism.

Well, when are Jews going to oust Bibi and his right wing religious minions?

Chuck Schumer, the most powerful Jew in American politics called for his ouster in a compelling and passionate speech.

Sadly I'm not hearing a damn thing similar to that from powerful and influential Muslims calling for the ouster of Hamas leadership.

I mean, isn't Israel supposedly ousting Hamas and its leadership? Or is that goal no longer on the agenda?

You seem confused. It's the Gazans who should be calling for the ouster of Hamas. And doing so would bring much faster humanitarian aid and relief.

The Palestinians have no homes, no food or water, no electricity, no phones or internet and they are surrounded by trigger happy Israelis and Hamas. How does your suggestion work?

That's their choice, given 71% said they are good with Hamas's bloody massacre on 10/7.

Had Hamas not launched that attack, Gazans would still be in their homes with food, water, electricity, and everything else. For all of the "yeah but" there's no getting around that.

Do you also subscribe to the “she was asking for it” theory of rape?

How completely idiotic - that's a totally wrong analogy. Hamas has launched thousands of rockets at Israel over the last several years, which would have killed many thousands, were it not for the Iron Dome. And then Hamas launched a violent assault, massacring or kidnapping civilians right and left. When you punch someone in the face and break their nose, and then that person whose nose you broke comes back with a group of friends to break your nose in return, it's NOT EVEN REMOTELY a "she asked for it because of how she was dressed" situation.

Except you seem to be overlooking the part where you're coming back with a group of friends to not just punch them in the nose (that would be a proportional response), but murdering, maiming or otherwise harming them and everyone they know, destroying their homes and possessions, and forcibly stealing their land by permanently displacing them. And that's just to this point - who knows what devious plans you have in the future?

I know proportional responses are not in your playbook because "how dare they even think to fight back!" is the Israeli ethos, but seriously - you really have a warped sense of the world around you.

How many Palestinians did Israel kidnap or massacre in the 2 years prior to 10/7? Do you think 10/7 was proportionate? (it wasn't - it was a hugely disproportionate attack by Hamas). Not to mention the thousands of rockets fired by Hamas which would have killed tens of thousands of Israelis if they hadn't been shot down by Iron Dome.

Thanks for ignoring the THOUSANDS of Palestinians Israel killed prior to the 10/7. It's like only Jewish lives matter to you genocide deniers.

I guess it's only fair if pro-Palestinians want to continually deny the Jewish genocide in WWII and centuries of other atrocities committed against Jews... I guess it's only fair if pro-Palestinians want to continually deny and ignore all of the things that precipitated Arab-Israeli wars and the repeated instances of genocidal attacks going back to the very day that Israel was partitioned.

The Jewish genocide in WWII was caused by the Germans. It had nothing to do with the Palestinians. That’s the whole problem. The Palestinians are forced to pay for the German (and European and US who rejected Jewish refugees after the war)’s sins.

Well you have to admit there was also that little bit of the Palestinians repeatedly trying to drive the Jews off of the lands they had been given by international treaty and repeatedly trying to exterminate them.

And the Jews did the same thing to the Palestinians. Moving on.

Not to be too pedantic but the UN didn't give anybody any land in 1948. It gave the right to organize a government within a set territory. All the people that lived within the territory were supposed to be that government's citizens.

+1
And instead of organizing a government, Zionist terrorists ethnically cleansed hundreds of thousands of Palestinians from their land in the most vicious and brutal manner imaginable.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Israel has slaughtered 32,000 Palestinians since 10/7. Congratulations to Israel, Bibi and the Zionists for turning the world against Jews.

Nobody should be against Jews. People can and should hate the Zionists all they want, but let's never judge anyone based on their religion or ethnicity. Zionists have perverted Judaism for personal gain and power and have weaponized it to dehumanize and massacre Palestinians. Zionism is undoubtedly a hideous and racist creed, but please, let's recognize the difference between Jews and Zionists. Many Jews hate Zionism.

Well, when are Jews going to oust Bibi and his right wing religious minions?

Chuck Schumer, the most powerful Jew in American politics called for his ouster in a compelling and passionate speech.

Sadly I'm not hearing a damn thing similar to that from powerful and influential Muslims calling for the ouster of Hamas leadership.

I mean, isn't Israel supposedly ousting Hamas and its leadership? Or is that goal no longer on the agenda?

You seem confused. It's the Gazans who should be calling for the ouster of Hamas. And doing so would bring much faster humanitarian aid and relief.

The Palestinians have no homes, no food or water, no electricity, no phones or internet and they are surrounded by trigger happy Israelis and Hamas. How does your suggestion work?

That's their choice, given 71% said they are good with Hamas's bloody massacre on 10/7.

Had Hamas not launched that attack, Gazans would still be in their homes with food, water, electricity, and everything else. For all of the "yeah but" there's no getting around that.

Do you also subscribe to the “she was asking for it” theory of rape?

How completely idiotic - that's a totally wrong analogy. Hamas has launched thousands of rockets at Israel over the last several years, which would have killed many thousands, were it not for the Iron Dome. And then Hamas launched a violent assault, massacring or kidnapping civilians right and left. When you punch someone in the face and break their nose, and then that person whose nose you broke comes back with a group of friends to break your nose in return, it's NOT EVEN REMOTELY a "she asked for it because of how she was dressed" situation.

Except you seem to be overlooking the part where you're coming back with a group of friends to not just punch them in the nose (that would be a proportional response), but murdering, maiming or otherwise harming them and everyone they know, destroying their homes and possessions, and forcibly stealing their land by permanently displacing them. And that's just to this point - who knows what devious plans you have in the future?

I know proportional responses are not in your playbook because "how dare they even think to fight back!" is the Israeli ethos, but seriously - you really have a warped sense of the world around you.

How many Palestinians did Israel kidnap or massacre in the 2 years prior to 10/7? Do you think 10/7 was proportionate? (it wasn't - it was a hugely disproportionate attack by Hamas). Not to mention the thousands of rockets fired by Hamas which would have killed tens of thousands of Israelis if they hadn't been shot down by Iron Dome.

Thanks for ignoring the THOUSANDS of Palestinians Israel killed prior to the 10/7. It's like only Jewish lives matter to you genocide deniers.

I guess it's only fair if pro-Palestinians want to continually deny the Jewish genocide in WWII and centuries of other atrocities committed against Jews... I guess it's only fair if pro-Palestinians want to continually deny and ignore all of the things that precipitated Arab-Israeli wars and the repeated instances of genocidal attacks going back to the very day that Israel was partitioned.

The Jewish genocide in WWII was caused by the Germans. It had nothing to do with the Palestinians. That’s the whole problem. The Palestinians are forced to pay for the German (and European and US who rejected Jewish refugees after the war)’s sins.

Well you have to admit there was also that little bit of the Palestinians repeatedly trying to drive the Jews off of the lands they had been given by international treaty and repeatedly trying to exterminate them.

I laughed at your characterization of land theft initiated by Zionist terrorism as “international treaty”, especially in light of the flagrant disregard Israel has for international resolutions these days.

Bro, the Palestinians lost control of that land to the Ottomans. And then lost it again to the Allies. And then it was given to the Jews. The Palestinians unique and sovereign claim to the land has always been tenuous, at best.

Neither the Ottomans nor the Allies (Brits) tried to exterminate the Palestinians. The Nakba was a genocide.