New OPM memo on RTO

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are some out of touch people on here. The vast majority of the country (me included) had no idea what “RTO” meant because we had no idea so many people had never returned to the office after COVID. The rest of us returned four years ago! Boy would you guys be furious if I was still teaching your kids online because it was more convenient for me.

This is not true in my experience. Most of my family members are in the Midwest and have white collar jobs. They are all teleworking either full time or much more than they were before the pandemic. As an example my BIL didn’t have telework at all before covid and as of a year ago he was called back into the office but only for two days a week. Same company.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m in the office 5 days a week. Not a fed. The transition is hard but then you will get used to it. And you may even like it. Nothing beats in person interactions. Parents these days are over involved in their kids lives any way. Do you really have to be at every single class event in elementary school. Or every single soccer game?

eyeroll. Aren't you maga types supposed to want to support families?

Yes. The school day has always been shorter than the work day, so choices are to stay at home or cobble together childcare. After years of complaining that school days are too short and don’t match up with working parents’ schedules, it now sounds like parents want the length of the work day to match the school day. While I think that would be great for society, it’s unlikely to happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m in the office 5 days a week. Not a fed. The transition is hard but then you will get used to it. And you may even like it. Nothing beats in person interactions. Parents these days are over involved in their kids lives any way. Do you really have to be at every single class event in elementary school. Or every single soccer game?

Do you have a stay at home spouse?

There are many dual Fed families around here, telework and schedule flexibility is a key part of how our lives makes any sense at all. In my household both parents have hour plus commutes. We have to stagger our schedules so that we’re really never home together at the same time during the week because of this. It’s a terrible way to live and raise a family.

NP but that’s par for the course for a dual income couple with young kids. We’ve never had quality adult time in the mornings and afternoons. Actually the dual Fed couples we know are better off than those of us in private bc they rarely log in at night, so they can watch movies together or chat while doing housework after the kids go to sleep.

“Rarely log in at night”. Ok now this thread is just silly.

Please don’t act like the average Fed is logging in at night to work. Most of them do their 8 hours and whatever gets done, gets done. I don’t say this pejoratively btw. I would love to do that.

I have done it so many times after the kids were in bed. I'm a night owl and actually very productive in the evening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m in the office 5 days a week. Not a fed. The transition is hard but then you will get used to it. And you may even like it. Nothing beats in person interactions. Parents these days are over involved in their kids lives any way. Do you really have to be at every single class event in elementary school. Or every single soccer game?

eyeroll. Aren't you maga types supposed to want to support families?

Yes. The school day has always been shorter than the work day, so choices are to stay at home or cobble together childcare. After years of complaining that school days are too short and don’t match up with working parents’ schedules, it now sounds like parents want the length of the work day to match the school day. While I think that would be great for society, it’s unlikely to happen.

Most of the families in my neighborhood flex their schedules (i.e. DH works 9-5:30 and gets kids on the bus and DW works 7-3:30 and gets them off the bus at 3:45). Full day of work for both of them and this covers a range of families that are private sector, non-profit and feds. Those people that have to go in one or two days a week will usually adjust their hours somewhat to account for the commuting day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m in the office 5 days a week. Not a fed. The transition is hard but then you will get used to it. And you may even like it. Nothing beats in person interactions. Parents these days are over involved in their kids lives any way. Do you really have to be at every single class event in elementary school. Or every single soccer game?

Do you have a stay at home spouse?

There are many dual Fed families around here, telework and schedule flexibility is a key part of how our lives makes any sense at all. In my household both parents have hour plus commutes. We have to stagger our schedules so that we’re really never home together at the same time during the week because of this. It’s a terrible way to live and raise a family.

NP but that’s par for the course for a dual income couple with young kids. We’ve never had quality adult time in the mornings and afternoons. Actually the dual Fed couples we know are better off than those of us in private bc they rarely log in at night, so they can watch movies together or chat while doing housework after the kids go to sleep.

“Rarely log in at night”. Ok now this thread is just silly.

Please don’t act like the average Fed is logging in at night to work. Most of them do their 8 hours and whatever gets done, gets done. I don’t say this pejoratively btw. I would love to do that.

I have done it so many times after the kids were in bed. I'm a night owl and actually very productive in the evening.

I've also done it, largely because we communicate with the West Coast and with Europe regularly. I have to be on calls at 3am sometimes. I've also been called into meeting with domestic staff at 6pm or later.

Yes, I imagine many/most feds don't have these kinds of jobs, but that just suggests there be....gasp....the flexibility there is now wrt telework agreements.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m in the office 5 days a week. Not a fed. The transition is hard but then you will get used to it. And you may even like it. Nothing beats in person interactions. Parents these days are over involved in their kids lives any way. Do you really have to be at every single class event in elementary school. Or every single soccer game?

How many hours a day are you in the office, do you have flexibility on that, do you have a spouse and what do they do and what is their flexibility, and how long is your commute

a high facetime requirement does NOT equal a telework ban.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are some out of touch people on here. The vast majority of the country (me included) had no idea what “RTO” meant because we had no idea so many people had never returned to the office after COVID. The rest of us returned four years ago! Boy would you guys be furious if I was still teaching your kids online because it was more convenient for me.

Thank you for your service, but at the same time you know up front teaching is in person, accept it and plan around it. I used to be a nurse but had to quit once I had kids due to my husband's frequent travel schedule. I couldn't be at the hospital overnight while he was on an airplane and that's just how it was.

Once telework became more common with covid, I reinvented myself into a completely different field, working my way up from a 1099 gig that paid $8/hr and no benefits into a telework eligible Fed job that offered me the flexibility to work at all and still be home for my kids. Flexibility is the main selling point at our office, that's why everyone works there. We're almost all mommy tracked. I've literally spent years coming back from the dead as a SAHM and with the snap of the fingers by some uninformed moron, I could possibly end up there again depending on how it ultimately works out. Its truly backwards progress.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m in the office 5 days a week. Not a fed. The transition is hard but then you will get used to it. And you may even like it. Nothing beats in person interactions. Parents these days are over involved in their kids lives any way. Do you really have to be at every single class event in elementary school. Or every single soccer game?

Do you have a stay at home spouse?

There are many dual Fed families around here, telework and schedule flexibility is a key part of how our lives makes any sense at all. In my household both parents have hour plus commutes. We have to stagger our schedules so that we’re really never home together at the same time during the week because of this. It’s a terrible way to live and raise a family.

NP but that’s par for the course for a dual income couple with young kids. We’ve never had quality adult time in the mornings and afternoons. Actually the dual Fed couples we know are better off than those of us in private bc they rarely log in at night, so they can watch movies together or chat while doing housework after the kids go to sleep.

“Rarely log in at night”. Ok now this thread is just silly.

Right??? I’m a fed manager, please remind me of the last time I didn’t work after hours.

And no it’s not par for the course at all. Most workplaces have some telework and flexibility. It’s not 1995 FFS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m in the office 5 days a week. Not a fed. The transition is hard but then you will get used to it. And you may even like it. Nothing beats in person interactions. Parents these days are over involved in their kids lives any way. Do you really have to be at every single class event in elementary school. Or every single soccer game?

eyeroll. Aren't you maga types supposed to want to support families?

Yes. The school day has always been shorter than the work day, so choices are to stay at home or cobble together childcare. After years of complaining that school days are too short and don’t match up with working parents’ schedules, it now sounds like parents want the length of the work day to match the school day. While I think that would be great for society, it’s unlikely to happen.

When you telework you turn a 10-12 hour workday into an 8 hour workday that aligns with school hours. This isn’t rocket science. My kid is at school from 7-4 (after school club ends at 4). Do the math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are some out of touch people on here. The vast majority of the country (me included) had no idea what “RTO” meant because we had no idea so many people had never returned to the office after COVID. The rest of us returned four years ago! Boy would you guys be furious if I was still teaching your kids online because it was more convenient for me.

This is not true in my experience. Most of my family members are in the Midwest and have white collar jobs. They are all teleworking either full time or much more than they were before the pandemic. As an example my BIL didn’t have telework at all before covid and as of a year ago he was called back into the office but only for two days a week. Same company.

About 1/3 of ALL American workers, tekework at least part time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are some out of touch people on here. The vast majority of the country (me included) had no idea what “RTO” meant because we had no idea so many people had never returned to the office after COVID. The rest of us returned four years ago! Boy would you guys be furious if I was still teaching your kids online because it was more convenient for me.

This is not true in my experience. Most of my family members are in the Midwest and have white collar jobs. They are all teleworking either full time or much more than they were before the pandemic. As an example my BIL didn’t have telework at all before covid and as of a year ago he was called back into the office but only for two days a week. Same company.

The NYT found in May 2024 that 80% of US workers were fully in person with remaining 20% split between hybrid and remote roles. Just because your BIL lives in the midwest does not make his situation representative of the rest of the country.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/03/08/business/economy/remote-work-home.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are some out of touch people on here. The vast majority of the country (me included) had no idea what “RTO” meant because we had no idea so many people had never returned to the office after COVID. The rest of us returned four years ago! Boy would you guys be furious if I was still teaching your kids online because it was more convenient for me.

This is not true in my experience. Most of my family members are in the Midwest and have white collar jobs. They are all teleworking either full time or much more than they were before the pandemic. As an example my BIL didn’t have telework at all before covid and as of a year ago he was called back into the office but only for two days a week. Same company.

The NYT found in May 2024 that 80% of US workers were fully in person with remaining 20% split between hybrid and remote roles. Just because your BIL lives in the midwest does not make his situation representative of the rest of the country.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/03/08/business/economy/remote-work-home.html

But that article was looking at all workers, right? So including teachers, healthcare workers, folks who work in restaurants, janitors, etc., etc. At least I think so -- but correct me if I'm wrong.

What if we look at just white collar OFFICE workers? I'm an NP. Of my family and friends and neighbor acquaintances who are white collar office workers in the private sector, virtually all of them are hybrid -- and typically in office only 2-3 days a week. I also have two good friends who are fully remote, but they were hired into those roles long before covid and their whole teams are remote and spread across the country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are some out of touch people on here. The vast majority of the country (me included) had no idea what “RTO” meant because we had no idea so many people had never returned to the office after COVID. The rest of us returned four years ago! Boy would you guys be furious if I was still teaching your kids online because it was more convenient for me.

This is not true in my experience. Most of my family members are in the Midwest and have white collar jobs. They are all teleworking either full time or much more than they were before the pandemic. As an example my BIL didn’t have telework at all before covid and as of a year ago he was called back into the office but only for two days a week. Same company.

About 1/3 of ALL American workers, tekework at least part time.

Then you shouldn’t have a problem finding a job that allows telework. Feds now fall into your 2/3 statistic that don’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are some out of touch people on here. The vast majority of the country (me included) had no idea what “RTO” meant because we had no idea so many people had never returned to the office after COVID. The rest of us returned four years ago! Boy would you guys be furious if I was still teaching your kids online because it was more convenient for me.

This is not true in my experience. Most of my family members are in the Midwest and have white collar jobs. They are all teleworking either full time or much more than they were before the pandemic. As an example my BIL didn’t have telework at all before covid and as of a year ago he was called back into the office but only for two days a week. Same company.

The NYT found in May 2024 that 80% of US workers were fully in person with remaining 20% split between hybrid and remote roles. Just because your BIL lives in the midwest does not make his situation representative of the rest of the country.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/03/08/business/economy/remote-work-home.html

The relevant question is white collar workers. I seriously doubt 80% of white collar workers are strictly in person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m in the office 5 days a week. Not a fed. The transition is hard but then you will get used to it. And you may even like it. Nothing beats in person interactions. Parents these days are over involved in their kids lives any way. Do you really have to be at every single class event in elementary school. Or every single soccer game?

Do you have a stay at home spouse?

There are many dual Fed families around here, telework and schedule flexibility is a key part of how our lives makes any sense at all. In my household both parents have hour plus commutes. We have to stagger our schedules so that we’re really never home together at the same time during the week because of this. It’s a terrible way to live and raise a family.

NP but that’s par for the course for a dual income couple with young kids. We’ve never had quality adult time in the mornings and afternoons. Actually the dual Fed couples we know are better off than those of us in private bc they rarely log in at night, so they can watch movies together or chat while doing housework after the kids go to sleep.

“Rarely log in at night”. Ok now this thread is just silly.

Please don’t act like the average Fed is logging in at night to work. Most of them do their 8 hours and whatever gets done, gets done. I don’t say this pejoratively btw. I would love to do that.

I have done it so many times after the kids were in bed. I'm a night owl and actually very productive in the evening.

I've also done it, largely because we communicate with the West Coast and with Europe regularly. I have to be on calls at 3am sometimes. I've also been called into meeting with domestic staff at 6pm or later.

Yes, I imagine many/most feds don't have these kinds of jobs, but that just suggests there be....gasp....the flexibility there is now wrt telework agreements.

Truth. I’m about to start working with some folks in Asia and prior to this nonsense I was prepared to get up early/log back on late to make it work. Now I really do not GAF. they can work around my strict 9-530 DC time schedule.