Another gunman, another elementary school

[Anonymous]

+1000 to the poster who said the female teachers with no body armor threw themselves in front of kids. JFC! After Newtown I started paying attention to what my kid wore closely each day in case I needed to know. My mom never had to do that.

Two things I will never forget - the sound of my best friend’s teen son wailing when his father died and the howls of those mother’s outside that school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not here to stick up for the cops. I feel nothing but anguish over this whole situation. But I really think so many of you here just do not understand what happens with assault rifles like this killer was carrying. I suggest you look up some videos on YouTube so you can grasp the scene. He murdered all those kids and teachers in the space of mere SECONDS. He sprayed that room with dozens and dozens of rounds of bullets, I’m sure each of the victims was shot multiple times their bodies were so ripped to shreds that DNA was required to match them to their parents. THESE WOUNDS WERE NOT SURVIVABLE. Even if the cops had gotten in there 5 minutes after.

We. Must. Ban. Assault. Weapons. Again.

Please, get off this thread for at least 10 minutes today and go sign up with Moms Demand Action and ACT ACT ACT and don’t stop acting until assault weapons are banned and all the millions sold in the last two decades are turned into plowshares.

I will keep saying this over and over again. They, multiple good guys with guns, didn’t stop him from going inside. How did that happen? I can blame them for failing to do their job and also want to ban assault weapons.

And I will keep saying this: Ramos CHOSE not to enter another classroom, and if we are allowed to use our brains here, its likely because he assumed the police or LEO of whatever stripe would come in much, much more quickly. It is not due to ANYTHING by police that he didn’t slaughter several additional classrooms full of children. STOP IT MISS PLEASE GET OFF THE THREAD. I’m already a donor and member of multiple gun control coalitions. STOP SQUELCHING DISCUSSION OF POLICE INACTION.

+1 the hero cops know best (to the extent anyone really thought that) narrative is absolutely busted

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The story will continue to evolve as more facts become known. Some of these posters will look pretty foolish.

All we really know right now is:
- it's far too easy for most people to get a military-style weapon like the AR-15
- nothing will change if we don't act
- the GOP will fight common-sense gun control

[Anonymous]

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Reports coming out that the police waited outside the school for over an hour while the shooter was inside. Kids were bleeding out while they were too much of cowards to help. Despicable. They should all be fired. Cops are not the answer!

I thought Texas had many good guys with guns who will protect their people. Where were they?

Not having their guns because the school is a no gun zone and they follow the law. Unlike people who want to shoot other people, who do not follow the law.

There was at least one armed officer at the school. Plus others who reportedly responded after the shooter crashed his truck. The police are on record that they “engaged” with the shooter before he entered the school.

Then they go in after him. Discharging your weapon one then giving up and waiting outside was the wrong thing to do. They should have continuously engaged with him and followed him in- until either he or they were unable to engage further.

There is no indication at this point that any officer fired a weapon at the shooter before he was allowed to gain entry to the school.

Correct. And it turns out his vest was not body armour but merely ammo storage. A few well placed shots to the chest would have done the trick.

As my husband in law enforcement, an air marshall, has said, two to the chest, one to the head. These guards are unlikely to have strong marksmanship skills though right? That requires a lot of training and practice, a lot of muscle memory. Maybe this will bring about changes in training. There will be a lot to unpack about this tragedy on multiple levels obviously.

Aren’t we past putting this entirely on the SROs? What about the other LEOs that got there quickly and went in and pulled out only their children?

I don’t think we know they only rescued their children.

Maybe they got their kids' friends out too. They certainly ignored the room where the active shooter was executing children.

Well unlike they school security officers, they were off duty and not tasked with protecting the school. So let's maybe stay on topic.

What makes you think that they were off duty?

The news? The SRO's actually assigned to protect the school watched the guy walk in and did nothing. The CBP officers who rescued kids out of windows and the one who ulitmately killed the shooter heard of the attack on the radio and rushed over to help. They were not tasked to do so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The story will continue to evolve as more facts become known. Some of these posters will look pretty foolish.

All we really know right now is:
- it's far too easy for most people to get a military-style weapon like the AR-15
- nothing will change if we don't act
- the GOP will fight common-sense gun control

We know armed police officers detained and tasered parents who wanted to help their children once they say the police weren’t going to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not here to stick up for the cops. I feel nothing but anguish over this whole situation. But I really think so many of you here just do not understand what happens with assault rifles like this killer was carrying. I suggest you look up some videos on YouTube so you can grasp the scene. He murdered all those kids and teachers in the space of mere SECONDS. He sprayed that room with dozens and dozens of rounds of bullets, I’m sure each of the victims was shot multiple times their bodies were so ripped to shreds that DNA was required to match them to their parents. THESE WOUNDS WERE NOT SURVIVABLE. Even if the cops had gotten in there 5 minutes after.

We. Must. Ban. Assault. Weapons. Again.

Please, get off this thread for at least 10 minutes today and go sign up with Moms Demand Action and ACT ACT ACT and don’t stop acting until assault weapons are banned and all the millions sold in the last two decades are turned into plowshares.

I will keep saying this over and over again. They, multiple good guys with guns, didn’t stop him from going inside. How did that happen? I can blame them for failing to do their job and also want to ban assault weapons.

And I will keep saying this: Ramos CHOSE not to enter another classroom, and if we are allowed to use our brains here, its likely because he assumed the police or LEO of whatever stripe would come in much, much more quickly. It is not due to ANYTHING by police that he didn’t slaughter several additional classrooms full of children. STOP IT MISS PLEASE GET OFF THE THREAD. I’m already a donor and member of multiple gun control coalitions. STOP SQUELCHING DISCUSSION OF POLICE INACTION.

You are wrong and presumptuous to boot. I didn’t criticize your brain or tell you to leave the thread, and you’re the one squelching discussion. I will not give the police one break in this, and side with all the parents of dead children calling them out.

[Anonymous]

One parent should release the images of their child riddled with bullets. People should not be afraid to see the result of their voting actions.

The image should be displayed as vehicle wraps and large signs that you hold on street corners. If the "crazies" can do it to advocate against abortion, so can concerned citizens.

Americans should eat, sleep, breathe their choices and lack of action.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:If you are a LO or a SRO you are signing up to sacrifice yourself if need be. They absolutely should have went in after him. Especially if there was more than one of them

Unfortunately, that's not what their training tells them to do:

Police training starts in the academy, where the concept of officer safety is so heavily emphasized that it takes on almost religious significance. Rookie officers are taught what is widely known as the “first rule of law enforcement”: An officer’s overriding goal every day is to go home at the end of their shift.

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/12/police-gun-shooting-training-ferguson/383681/

Sorry, this is applicable when rooms full of 9 and 10 yr olds are getting slaughtered. You don’t just stand outside and wait.

It's inapplicable to any active shooter post Columbine. The thinking used to be that you want to calm and negotiate with a gunman to save lives, but now it's go in fast and search out the shooter before they can kill more people. These cops decided to wait

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/15/us/florida-school-shooting-columbine-lessons/index.html

I'm not going to sit in judgement of cops who made choices under difficult circumstances. We'd all like to think that we would have done better when faced with the prospect of dying kids, but half of DC has had the luxury of working of been sitting at home because of COVID. Most of us are hardly the warriors for the public good (with the exception of frontline workers).

A sniper fired more than 200 high velocity rounds at my kid’s school in DC using four fully automatic assault rifles and a high capacity drum magazine. Four people were shot. This happened last month.

And that is the fault of Congress (specifically Republicans) for not having the guts and brains to put in place common sense measures that would reauire background checks and ban high capacity magazines. Because all of the legitimate gun owners out there know you don’t need the standard number of rounds to shoot a deer.

Obama had a Democratic controlled Congress between 2009 and 2011 with a brief period of a supermajority in the Senate. Plenty of blame to spread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not here to stick up for the cops. I feel nothing but anguish over this whole situation. But I really think so many of you here just do not understand what happens with assault rifles like this killer was carrying. I suggest you look up some videos on YouTube so you can grasp the scene. He murdered all those kids and teachers in the space of mere SECONDS. He sprayed that room with dozens and dozens of rounds of bullets, I’m sure each of the victims was shot multiple times their bodies were so ripped to shreds that DNA was required to match them to their parents. THESE WOUNDS WERE NOT SURVIVABLE. Even if the cops had gotten in there 5 minutes after.

We. Must. Ban. Assault. Weapons. Again.

Please, get off this thread for at least 10 minutes today and go sign up with Moms Demand Action and ACT ACT ACT and don’t stop acting until assault weapons are banned and all the millions sold in the last two decades are turned into plowshares.

I will keep saying this over and over again. They, multiple good guys with guns, didn’t stop him from going inside. How did that happen? I can blame them for failing to do their job and also want to ban assault weapons.

And I will keep saying this: Ramos CHOSE not to enter another classroom, and if we are allowed to use our brains here, its likely because he assumed the police or LEO of whatever stripe would come in much, much more quickly. It is not due to ANYTHING by police that he didn’t slaughter several additional classrooms full of children. STOP IT MISS PLEASE GET OFF THE THREAD. I’m already a donor and member of multiple gun control coalitions. STOP SQUELCHING DISCUSSION OF POLICE INACTION.

And call your friends in red states and tell them to call their Congressmen. Although I suspect that the Rs aren't going to move on this issue even if a stadium full of kindergarteners are slaughtered, cause....freedumb.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One parent should release the images of their child riddled with bullets. People should not be afraid to see the result of their voting actions.

The image should be displayed as vehicle wraps and large signs that you hold on street corners. If the "crazies" can do it to advocate against abortion, so can concerned citizens.

Americans should eat, sleep, breathe their choices and lack of action.

Once again, these parents do not owe us this sh*t. F that.

[Anonymous]

These do nothing cops need to be arrested and prosecuted. What a bunch of bullshit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are a LO or a SRO you are signing up to sacrifice yourself if need be. They absolutely should have went in after him. Especially if there was more than one of them

Unfortunately, that's not what their training tells them to do:

Police training starts in the academy, where the concept of officer safety is so heavily emphasized that it takes on almost religious significance. Rookie officers are taught what is widely known as the “first rule of law enforcement”: An officer’s overriding goal every day is to go home at the end of their shift.

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/12/police-gun-shooting-training-ferguson/383681/

Sorry, this is applicable when rooms full of 9 and 10 yr olds are getting slaughtered. You don’t just stand outside and wait.

It's inapplicable to any active shooter post Columbine. The thinking used to be that you want to calm and negotiate with a gunman to save lives, but now it's go in fast and search out the shooter before they can kill more people. These cops decided to wait

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/15/us/florida-school-shooting-columbine-lessons/index.html

I'm not going to sit in judgement of cops who made choices under difficult circumstances. We'd all like to think that we would have done better when faced with the prospect of dying kids, but half of DC has had the luxury of working of been sitting at home because of COVID. Most of us are hardly the warriors for the public good (with the exception of frontline workers).

A sniper fired more than 200 high velocity rounds at my kid’s school in DC using four fully automatic assault rifles and a high capacity drum magazine. Four people were shot. This happened last month.

And that is the fault of Congress (specifically Republicans) for not having the guts and brains to put in place common sense measures that would reauire background checks and ban high capacity magazines. Because all of the legitimate gun owners out there know you don’t need the standard number of rounds to shoot a deer.

Obama had a Democratic controlled Congress between 2009 and 2011 with a brief period of a supermajority in the Senate. Plenty of blame to spread.

Oh please, Obama had a very brief period of supermajority and used it to pass healthcare. Meanwhile, Republicans have blocked it every step of the way.

Poll after poll in early 2013 showed a near-unanimous consensus of Americans supporting legislation to close all loopholes in the background check system, and smaller majorities backing bans on assault weapons and high-capacity magazines. A bipartisan background check bill, drafted by Joe Manchin and Pat Toomey, won the support of a Senate majority. It was defeated, four months after the tragedy, by a filibustering Senate minority.

[Anonymous]

I bet law enforcement will be much more competent and committed when protecting the NRA convention this weekend.

[Anonymous]

I want to hear stories from people who were filming behind the police tape and I want to know if they were ever pressured threatened to erase, hand-over or not share what they filmed (the inaction and lack of preparedness and will to do their jobs).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One parent should release the images of their child riddled with bullets. People should not be afraid to see the result of their voting actions.

The image should be displayed as vehicle wraps and large signs that you hold on street corners. If the "crazies" can do it to advocate against abortion, so can concerned citizens.

Americans should eat, sleep, breathe their choices and lack of action.

Once again, these parents do not owe us this sh*t. F that.

Why, are you afraid to face reality? Consequence of our inaction.