4yo overnight screaming and early waking. We're so tired!

[Anonymous]

Almost 4 year old used to be a great sleeper. Bedtime is still a breeze in that he follows the routine and passes right out. But for the better part of a year now there has been some combination of overnight waking, screaming in his sleep (I only mention in case it's related), and early morning wakings between 4:45-6. He'll get out of bed, turn his light on, and come to our room, start going downstairs, or play and look at books in his room (he has very few toys in there). The ok to wake light has NEVER worked, he doesn't care at all and we've had no consistent way to enforce it. When we escort him back to his room and tuck him in, he typically gets right back up and turns the light back on, insisting he's not tired and can't sleep anymore. This happens over and over in the early morning hours, sometimes with kicking and screaming, waking his younger brother, until we practically beg him to play quietly in his room until the ok to wake light goes on.

We've tried short term rewards, long term rewards, sticker charts, etc. It's like nothing disincentivizes or incentivizes him to follow directions. We transitioned out of the crib last fall after things were seemingly improving and needless to say they got worse again. He also dropped his nap in the past six weeks or so.

His bedtime had been 8 p.m., and my hunch was overtiredness so we've tried an earlier bedtime (7ish) for the past week but no change. He seems to just wake up early, have no idea what time it is (beyond that his ok to wake light is still red and not green), but is ready to play and be entertained. Physically it's become nearly impossible to contain him. Do we have no choice but to put the crib back on and/or a lock on his door? What would you do?

[Anonymous]

You can't contain a 4 year old with crib. You'll just have to teach him to stay in bed and wait until a set time (let's say 7 AM). Put a clock in there and tell him what hour hand it is.

My son is 7 and he only sleeps from 9 to 6:30ish. I told him to stay in bed until 7. Some kids just don't need 12 hours every day.

[Anonymous]

I would cut all screens for 2 weeks and see if that helps.

[Anonymous]

Change diet, eliminate electronics for starters.

[Anonymous]

Different issues, but I found it VERY helpful to accept that you cannot force a child to go to sleep or stay asleep. But you can create reasonable boundaries around safety and your own sleep. Here are the rules around sleep in our house:

-- DD's "sleep time" is 8pm to 6am. This is the time for her to sleep. DH and I go to bed at 10pm and get up between 6 and 6:30am. This is the time in our house designated for rest.

-- DD can get out of bed to use the bathroom or get a drink of water during these times, no questions asked. If she needs help with either of these, she can let us know and we will help. But she is capable of doing both on her own and we encourage her to do so.

-- If she has a bad dream or is having trouble sleeping on her own because she's scare for upset, she can come to our bed to sleep. But she must lie down and close her eyes, not bouncing, talking, or constant wiggling. If she can't do that, we will walk her back to her room, stay with her for a bit until she feels safe, and then go back to bed.

-- If she cannot go to sleep, she can look at books in bed. But she must stay in her bed and the only light that can be on is her bedside lamp. If we see her overhead light on or discover she is out of bed, we will turn it off and come walk her back to bed.

-- If she wakes up before 6am, she may look at books or play in her room. In addition to books, she has a Tonie box (she must keep the volume down), a doll house, and a few other quiet toys. No waking us up unless there is a problem, which means she's upset, sick, or needs bathroom help. Being hungry when she wakes up early is not a problem -- breakfast will be served at 6am and it's okay to feel hungry sometimes. It's a good reminder to eat a proper dinner.

Did she acclimate to these rules instantly? No. But we kept reinforcing. The rules ensure that if she needs us, we are there for her. It also allows her to make some of her own choices in a controlled way. If she doesn't want to sleep, she can do other things, but not in a way that disrupts our sleep. Having this control over her own sleep choices has ultimately led to her becoming a very good sleeper -- she goes to sleep by 8:30 most nights, 9pm at the latest. After months of waking up at 4 or 5, she started sleeping until 6 and now it is not uncommon for us to have to go get her out of bed at 6:30 for breakfast. We often find her "reading" a memorized book to a baby in her bed with just the lamp on.

I've found that good boundaries, calm reinforcement, and not trying to control every single thing your child does is a good way to approach challenges with sleep, food, bathing, etc.

[Anonymous]

Lock the door. How is this a question? Lock the door. The rule in my house is you can do whatever you want if everyone else is sleeping, but you're doing it quietly in your room.

[Anonymous]

Have you tried giving him consequences for disobeying you and waking up the entire house? It’s fine to be mean every now and then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You can't contain a 4 year old with crib. You'll just have to teach him to stay in bed and wait until a set time (let's say 7 AM). Put a clock in there and tell him what hour hand it is.

My son is 7 and he only sleeps from 9 to 6:30ish. I told him to stay in bed until 7. Some kids just don't need 12 hours every day.

That's what we're trying to do, but he doesn't listen. Did you son always agree to stay til 7 or when he got older?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Different issues, but I found it VERY helpful to accept that you cannot force a child to go to sleep or stay asleep. But you can create reasonable boundaries around safety and your own sleep. Here are the rules around sleep in our house:

-- DD's "sleep time" is 8pm to 6am. This is the time for her to sleep. DH and I go to bed at 10pm and get up between 6 and 6:30am. This is the time in our house designated for rest.

-- DD can get out of bed to use the bathroom or get a drink of water during these times, no questions asked. If she needs help with either of these, she can let us know and we will help. But she is capable of doing both on her own and we encourage her to do so.

-- If she has a bad dream or is having trouble sleeping on her own because she's scare for upset, she can come to our bed to sleep. But she must lie down and close her eyes, not bouncing, talking, or constant wiggling. If she can't do that, we will walk her back to her room, stay with her for a bit until she feels safe, and then go back to bed.

-- If she cannot go to sleep, she can look at books in bed. But she must stay in her bed and the only light that can be on is her bedside lamp. If we see her overhead light on or discover she is out of bed, we will turn it off and come walk her back to bed.

-- If she wakes up before 6am, she may look at books or play in her room. In addition to books, she has a Tonie box (she must keep the volume down), a doll house, and a few other quiet toys. No waking us up unless there is a problem, which means she's upset, sick, or needs bathroom help. Being hungry when she wakes up early is not a problem -- breakfast will be served at 6am and it's okay to feel hungry sometimes. It's a good reminder to eat a proper dinner.

Did she acclimate to these rules instantly? No. But we kept reinforcing. The rules ensure that if she needs us, we are there for her. It also allows her to make some of her own choices in a controlled way. If she doesn't want to sleep, she can do other things, but not in a way that disrupts our sleep. Having this control over her own sleep choices has ultimately led to her becoming a very good sleeper -- she goes to sleep by 8:30 most nights, 9pm at the latest. After months of waking up at 4 or 5, she started sleeping until 6 and now it is not uncommon for us to have to go get her out of bed at 6:30 for breakfast. We often find her "reading" a memorized book to a baby in her bed with just the lamp on.

I've found that good boundaries, calm reinforcement, and not trying to control every single thing your child does is a good way to approach challenges with sleep, food, bathing, etc.

Thank you! Radical acceptance definitely seems like a piece of this. How did you calmly reinforce when she pushed back? It escalates so quickly into a power struggle over here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lock the door. How is this a question? Lock the door. The rule in my house is you can do whatever you want if everyone else is sleeping, but you're doing it quietly in your room.

Yes, that's next for sure. We wanted him to have bathroom access since he sometimes needs to go #2 early morning, but I suppose he could call for us as he used to do. At this point I'm worried he'd loudly pound on or scream at the door but we might just have to live with that til he learns. Your boundary seems very reasonable.

[Anonymous]

Do you have a way for him to play music or an audio book to go back to sleep? That's what my parents trained me to do when I had wakeup as a kid. I still use audio books as an adult to go back to sleep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Have you tried giving him consequences for disobeying you and waking up the entire house? It’s fine to be mean every now and then.

We have tried more carrots than sticks, but nothing has resonated much. He doesn't have one toy in particular he loves, and not much screen time, so not totally sure what an effective, consistent consequence would be. Ideas very welcome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you have a way for him to play music or an audio book to go back to sleep? That's what my parents trained me to do when I had wakeup as a kid. I still use audio books as an adult to go back to sleep.

Yes, he has wireless headphones so I can play something from my phone! We did that for awhile and though he never went back to sleep, he listened quietly. But turning it off would lead to meltdowns and my husband thought it was doing more harm than good to develop a "reliance" on it, and that it's important he learns how to be bored. Can't say I quite agree, at this age anyway.....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you have a way for him to play music or an audio book to go back to sleep? That's what my parents trained me to do when I had wakeup as a kid. I still use audio books as an adult to go back to sleep.

Yes, he has wireless headphones so I can play something from my phone! We did that for awhile and though he never went back to sleep, he listened quietly. But turning it off would lead to meltdowns and my husband thought it was doing more harm than good to develop a "reliance" on it, and that it's important he learns how to be bored. Can't say I quite agree, at this age anyway.....

I dunno sitting quietly seems a lot better than screaming. I don't see how him crying is any better.

I had a tape deck myself but it was the 90s. They sell little story cubes where the kids can insert little tabs for different stories. I might get him one of those.

[Anonymous]

I would never lock my kid in a room. WTF.