College or not -- planning ahead

[Anonymous]

Junior in HS and we're starting to think about what's next. Absolutely no idea where to start with college for a 2E kid with severe ADHD and anxiety, who barely functions at school. She struggles with attendance, self-managing, interacting / eye contact with adults. At an age at which her peers are in the process of becoming adults, that will be even harder to manage.

So what does college look like for kids like this? She somehow manages to get decent grades (far from stellar) simply by showing up. She learns quickly but struggles with long projects and keeping a routine. She is definitely a dopamine junkie and can spend days on netflix if she had a chance. Side benefit is an incredibly rich and varied collection of playlists on Spotify that I like well enough to mooch on for my own account.

How does a kid like this even entertain college? And if it turns out not to be her path, what are some resources I can read on to help a kid with ADHD to transition into adulthood: a job, responsibilities, living independently, finding a good set of quality friends when all hers are away and the kids who stayed back (in our privileged community) are either troublemakers, or similarly struggling, or both...

There are so many resources for getting your kid into college but I cannot find anything for college with SN, or for no college...

[Anonymous]

I have a kid with some of those same struggles. For us, we are starting with 2 community college classes and a part time job. My DC needs to interact with people outside of a school setting and also to have a less than full time school schedule. We are just starting that path, so I can’t say if it’s going to work, but I feel like it keeps many doors open and also gives DC a chance to try something besides just school. Also gives us time to keep working intensely on therapy.

There are also Facebook groups for parents of kids with neuro diversity/disabilities and the college path - check out College Transitions and Accommodation Information for Parents.

[Anonymous]

Does she want to go to college?

[Anonymous]

I have a kid a bit like this though mine functioned well at school until spring of senior year when she had a complete breakdown (hospitalized, didn't go back to school full time).

She is a freshman at a fairly competitive college (her choice against my advice to choose a less stressful school) and is actually doing okay! Grades could be better but given everything she has had to adjust to, I'm happy.

It's only been a semester so who knows how it will turn out, but this is a kid who had to be constantly reminded to take her meds, had to be nagged to do homework/study, etc. I was terrified to send her to school but wanted to let her try. And so far so good.

All this to say, I'd let your DD take the lead here. If she wants to go to college, look at schools in your state so she can continue with any support team she has (therapists/psychiatrists) via virtual visits. Or maybe community college is a better starting point.

If she doesn't want to go to college, help her start looking into vocational training that might interest her.

[Anonymous]

The biggest question is: What does your DD want to do?
Second biggest question: What is your DD doing to manage her ADHD and anxiety?

I have a 19 yo with ADHD/anxiety without your DD's natural intelligence. He is on therapeutic medication levels for ADHD/anxiety and has an IEP. He did very well in the classes he like but didn't give a sh!t about the others - and, of course, those were the classes he had to pass to graduate. He also has a true math disability and had to take SOL remediation over 2 summers in order to pass the math SOL needed for graduation. I was very clear with him by his freshman year about the behaviors I needed to see from him in order to support him going away for college. It wasn't grade related but behavior related: doing his homework, turning it in and on time, staying on top of his classes, getting himself up independently and out the door on time, communicating with his teachers when he was struggling, getting out of an academic hole, etc. Not only are these critical for college but they are lifeskills needed for any job you're in.

Despite my efforts/support, DS did not display any of those behaviors yet he still said he wanted to go to college. By the middle of his senior year, he was regretful because his friends were getting their acceptance letters and he hadn't even applied to college. I, again, reminded him that he didn't have to go to college or he could take a gap year. He wanted to go to college. So, we came up with a plan so that he could get into community college.

He started out taking online classes that were offered at no cost to FCPS students through their Jump Start program. They were asynchronous but not difficult to get through. Now that he was more motivated, DS applied himself at a level that surprised me. That doesn't mean he didn't struggle or that he made poor choices. The difference was that he was more motivated/willing. The community college has been great. Sure, there are some dud instructors but the vast majority have been at least 'good'. Living at home has allowed me to scaffold support to DS and not waste money - even simple things like figuring out how/where to get books, finding instructor reviews before signing up for a class, etc. I've seen a lot of growth and maturation in DS. Going off to college would have been a huge mistake.

[Anonymous]

I have a DS with ADHD on medication for that and mood. Same issues as most ADHD kids - did not turn in work in HS, terrible grades in some classes, but very bright and able to learn stuff he is interested in.

I made it clear that we would support college for him, if he graduated HS and was accepted anywhere. I made it clear that his options for college would be entirely a function of his grades, test scores and extra-curriculars, and the decision where to go would be entirely his. We gave him the support of a private college counselor for staying on track with college applications.

At the end of the day, he got into several good college options despite not stellar grades. He is doing well at college. He found something he is very interested in and has a good plan that will make him very employable upon graduation. He navigated college disability services for accommodations. Now that he has far more choice about what to take, when to take it and how to manage his work, school is a LOT easier to manage.

In HS, I was really doubtful he would make this transition, but to my surprise and happiness, he has.

I know some other PPs have had a different approach - by saying DC has to demonstrate certain behaviors before getting the privilege of college - I can understand that. But, we took a different approach - “we will pay for whatever you can get into and will continue to pay as long as you are on track to graduate”, mostly because at the end of the day I wanted DC’s failure to get to and stay in college to be his and his alone. I never wanted him to look back and complain that we wouldn’t let him do something and blame us for his failure.

I know that we have tremendous privilege to be able to say “we will pay”, so I recognize that is not for everyone. But, I wanted to share because I think it is very typical for ADHD kids to surprise you if they can just get to any college.

I also think that as a parent I wanted to normalize trying for something you weren’t sure you could achieve. Maybe he wouldn’t have been ready and have dropped or failed out, but I don’t see that as an irreparable mistake - so you learned something and take a few years to work or go to community college and maybe try again later.

I’m not criticizing other’s approaches - there are many ways for kids (both neuro-typical and neuro-divergent) to navigate post-HS and I am a big supporter of normalizing all choices - no one approach is “success” or “failure”.

[Anonymous]

NP and thanks to all for sharing. I have a son going through a really rough time in HS right now. I’m hoping he passes most classes this year, all would be fantastic even if they are Ds. It stressful to think about the future and it’s nice to hear all of your stories.

[Anonymous]

I think it's easy to forget that our kids with ADHD and EF issues take longer to mature. It's tempting to go down the rabbit hole of anxiety about their futures, but there are so many ways to achieve a happy life--it doesn't have to be a straight line!

[Anonymous]

Consider extended IEP if she’s not ready. There’s many options available to age 22 including social skills, college, job skills, interview skills, etc. I’d speak with an educational consultant. It’s really a great underutilized benefit to the IEP system. Some areas I’ve lived have entire schools dedicated to this age population but this geographical area is rare to find anyone utilizing such a great resource.

Www.wrightslaw.com

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Junior in HS and we're starting to think about what's next. Absolutely no idea where to start with college for a 2E kid with severe ADHD and anxiety, who barely functions at school. She struggles with attendance, self-managing, interacting / eye contact with adults. At an age at which her peers are in the process of becoming adults, that will be even harder to manage.

So what does college look like for kids like this? She somehow manages to get decent grades (far from stellar) simply by showing up. She learns quickly but struggles with long projects and keeping a routine. She is definitely a dopamine junkie and can spend days on netflix if she had a chance. Side benefit is an incredibly rich and varied collection of playlists on Spotify that I like well enough to mooch on for my own account.

How does a kid like this even entertain college? And if it turns out not to be her path, what are some resources I can read on to help a kid with ADHD to transition into adulthood: a job, responsibilities, living independently, finding a good set of quality friends when all hers are away and the kids who stayed back (in our privileged community) are either troublemakers, or similarly struggling, or both...

There are so many resources for getting your kid into college but I cannot find anything for college with SN, or for no college...

So it sounds like she definitely has the aptitude to be successful in college if that is what she wants, but she will need many supports. I assume you plan to have her live at home? Unless things change a lot in the next year, definitely have her at home where you monitor her coping and gradually work toward more independence. I would come up with some goals to work on through highschool to prepare her and then it may be when the time comes she needs to live at home while maybe dipping her toes in the college waters maybe with some community college courses and working with a therapist to manage the anxiety and further skills of independence. She may not be ready for full time.

You ask about job skills if she has a job and takes a class or 2. Talk to the IEP team about what they offer. It may be worth an extra year of highschool to get more comfortable with AP classes and learn job skills or try more electives that focus on various jobs that may be of interest.

Not sure about community college, but a lot of regular college classes don't have so much busywork. You do have to stay on top of things, but if she is a quick study that helps. Maybe start with a class or 2 to build a sense of confidence.

Meanwhile maybe identify some college readiness skills she needs to work on and see how her IEP can fit into this and figure out what services you can afford to pay for (e.g. executive functioning coach). I would say therapy is something high on the list for expenses so she can learn to manage the anxiety which will increase with any transitions. Is she receptive to that? Is she on medication?

Does she have friends? Is she happy with those friendships? Did she form them on her own? Can she make new friends in situations where she doesn't know people? I ask that last question because my neighbor, who's son dropped out of college, said one mistake she made was social engineering. He played the right sport and she was a social butterfly and made sure to do everything possible to make him well-liked. Plus, he had a popular older brother. He never had to make an effort. For camp she always sent him off with a good friend. He didn't have to make friends on his own and she said she wished instead of working it with the parents, and being the house with the best stuff and food, she focused more on making sure he was applying social skills. In college he didn't make friends and he did nothing to keep up with his old friends. He didn't respond to texts. He didn't reach out to his best friend who had knee surgery even when that friend reached out to him to say recovery was slow and tough. He didn't try to see them when in town. She would organize things rather than coaching him to do the work. If social is an issue that should be a number 1 priority. In order to cope with independent living you need to be able to make and keep friends.

[Anonymous]

Professor here and I have kids like this often.

Unfortunately I teach in a major where attendance, follow-through on deadlines, and consistency are critical to success (typically the semester cadence is cumulative in a project based way), so ghosting or disengagement is almost always met with academic disaster.

The choice of major is IMPORTANT. For example: nursing or architecture or comp sci would be a disaster for the reasons stated above. But there may be others that are a much better fit such as (guessing) communications or test-based subjects. If you are able to connect with a community that can tell you what kids like your daughter found success in, that would be great.

I would also say that a support specialist (if you can hire outside of school) that would hold weekly meetings with her might help. Like a therapist but for organization.

Finally, if traditional college isn't for her, it isn't for her. Plenty of vocational options that are respectable, and time off to focus on something else before considering school may also be a good option.

Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Professor here and I have kids like this often.

Unfortunately I teach in a major where attendance, follow-through on deadlines, and consistency are critical to success (typically the semester cadence is cumulative in a project based way), so ghosting or disengagement is almost always met with academic disaster.

The choice of major is IMPORTANT. For example: nursing or architecture or comp sci would be a disaster for the reasons stated above. But there may be others that are a much better fit such as (guessing) communications or test-based subjects. If you are able to connect with a community that can tell you what kids like your daughter found success in, that would be great.

I would also say that a support specialist (if you can hire outside of school) that would hold weekly meetings with her might help. Like a therapist but for organization.

Finally, if traditional college isn't for her, it isn't for her. Plenty of vocational options that are respectable, and time off to focus on something else before considering school may also be a good option.

Good luck!

Interesting take, given that nursing and IT/computers are often mentioned as great careers.

I’m wondering, professor, what field you teach in?

And how do you view your responsibilities in structuring your class. I have seen some academic debate on Twitter discussing obligations to create syllabi, grades and class structure in a way that scaffolds EF for the entire class, as an obligation of the profession to make acedmia accessible to all with disabilities.

In the project-based college classes (think paper-writing, presentations, building architectural models), a scaffold would involve taking the major project, for example, a paper, and breaking down the process and assigning internal deadlines and grades. So a grade for brainstorming topics, evaluating available research, selecting a thesis topic, doing the research, making an outline, turning in a rough draft, and final draft, all with feedback and meetings with prof along the way and room for individual adjustment. Many profs will also drop some grades to allow for imperfections.

It seems like this is becoming more common after COVID, which revealed some students struggling with illness, family or financial issues which were once thought by professors to be thought of as “not my problem, I’ll make no allowances”.

[Anonymous]

^ to clarify - nursing and IT are often mentioned as great careers for people with EF dysfunction and ADHD.

[Anonymous]

I can’ t see how nursing would be a great career for the patient is one has issues with Executive Function??? ADHD possibly as long as one was in a situation where the job hours would not be longer than the medication regimen safely covered as many entry level nurses have either revolving shifts or fewer but 10 or more hours a week. Perhaps working in a local doctor office with set hours and routine could be an option. The key is attention to detail and follow through.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I can’ t see how nursing would be a great career for the patient is one has issues with Executive Function??? ADHD possibly as long as one was in a situation where the job hours would not be longer than the medication regimen safely covered as many entry level nurses have either revolving shifts or fewer but 10 or more hours a week. Perhaps working in a local doctor office with set hours and routine could be an option. The key is attention to detail and follow through.

LOL one of the best ER docs I know has ADHD and dyslexia. Don't let a diagnosis keep your kid back, OP.