Can we talk Covid? What we did right and wrong

[Anonymous]

I am reading this book Gone Viral by Justin Hart.

https://www.target.com/p/gone-viral-by-justin-hart-hardcover/-/A-85951670?ref=tgt_adv_XS000000&AFID=google_pla_df&fndsrc=tgtao&DFA=71700000012510700&CPNG=PLA_Entertainment%2BShopping%7CEntertainment_Ecomm_Hardlines&adgroup=SC_Entertainment&LID=700000001170770pgs&LNM=PRODUCT_GROUP&network=g&device=m&location=9010826&targetid=pla-308131048976&ds_rl=1246978&ds_rl=1248099&gbraid=0AAAAAD-5dfZPCe1ifnGRpd9X57uPP-Ady&gbraid=0AAAAAD-5dfZPCe1ifnGRpd9X57uPP-Ady&gclid=EAIaIQobChMInbDK2I_e-wIV2RXUAR2m3QdHEAQYASABEgJz__D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

We really got so much wrong with our response to Covid. I fear so much for our children and the business les that failed due to the draconian measures out in place by 50 governors and all the school districts.

I heard the author talking about how swingsets in certain California parks are still locked.

The disease killed so few statistically. So many died due to failure to thrive because they were not allowed visits and human contact. The mentally challenged died not able to be visited by their long time caregivers. The medical field lost so much money as elective procedures were cancelled.

The thing is I believe this will happen again and the power hungry brokers will once again put in these horrid measures.

[Anonymous]

Hindsight is always 20/20.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hindsight is always 20/20.

Yes, which is why discussing what we did wrong and seeking to correct in next time is valuable.

It’s so weird to me how many people don’t want to discuss what we got wrong with our Covid response, as though even discussing it is taboo. How the heck are we going to learn from it then? We can acknowledge that many mistakes were unintentional and based on imperfect information while still accepting that they were mistakes and identify what we can do better in the future.

(Not OP, btw, it’s just amazing to me that every time someone wants to discuss what went wrong, so many people instantly feel defensive and threatened. It makes no sense.)

[Anonymous]

One thing to consider is that when a preventative measure does its job, it seems like it’s unnecessary. Remember that the reason to stay home wasn’t just to prevent deaths, it was to “flatten the curve.”

some businesses thrived. The richest became richer. The businesses that didn’t were owned mostly by small business owners and the government could have done more to help them.

With schools, I do think they were closed for too long, but the big problem is that we ignore learning loss. The kids and teachers are expected to start back up as though the pandemic didn’t happen which is patently ridiculous. There also just aren’t enough psychological supports in place for kids.

So in my mind it’s less an issue of draconian measures (schools excepted) as it is a failure to support the impacts of closures.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hindsight is always 20/20.

Yes, but there were some things that we did wrong from the get-go, that were clearly not problematic. Shutting down outdoor recreation places, tennis courts, having outdoor mask mandates, putting barricades around playgrounds.

It was really clearly quite early that these were not places/modes of transmission, yet the closures/outdoor mandates stayed for far, far too long.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One thing to consider is that when a preventative measure does its job, it seems like it’s unnecessary. Remember that the reason to stay home wasn’t just to prevent deaths, it was to “flatten the curve.”

some businesses thrived. The richest became richer. The businesses that didn’t were owned mostly by small business owners and the government could have done more to help them.

With schools, I do think they were closed for too long, but the big problem is that we ignore learning loss. The kids and teachers are expected to start back up as though the pandemic didn’t happen which is patently ridiculous. There also just aren’t enough psychological supports in place for kids.

So in my mind it’s less an issue of draconian measures (schools excepted) as it is a failure to support the impacts of closures.

I agree with this but also think we discovered ways in which we aren’t set up to adapt to schooling during a pandemic. There are other countries that did a better job keeping schools mostly open, but it was partly because they more easily pivoted to shortened school days and having kids outdoors for more of the day. They also more easily implemented things like masking and testing in schools, whereas in the US it took like 2 years to figure that stuff out.

I also keep thinking about when people said we couldn’t have in person school because many schools don’t have windows that open. We should be thinking about pandemics and disease in the design and upgrades of school facilities. In cultures with less reliance on climate control and where outdoor education is built into education, the transition to a safer school environment was easier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One thing to consider is that when a preventative measure does its job, it seems like it’s unnecessary. Remember that the reason to stay home wasn’t just to prevent deaths, it was to “flatten the curve.”

some businesses thrived. The richest became richer. The businesses that didn’t were owned mostly by small business owners and the government could have done more to help them.

With schools, I do think they were closed for too long, but the big problem is that we ignore learning loss. The kids and teachers are expected to start back up as though the pandemic didn’t happen which is patently ridiculous. There also just aren’t enough psychological supports in place for kids.

So in my mind it’s less an issue of draconian measures (schools excepted) as it is a failure to support the impacts of closures.

And for some of the students, it's too late. The high school class of 2021 especially was robbed of an education.

[Anonymous]

I think our biggest mistake was using shame as a tool to brainwash people to the point where we still have people wearing masks in their car or in their private office. We fueled next-level anxiety that people still can’t shake…even those who have had and easily beat covid.

I know far too many people who still mask and isolate their kids even though these kids essentially have language delays and lack social skills due to their parents’ overzealous precautions even after vaccinations were widely available.

Having said that, I am starting to wonder what will happen once China eases up their lockdowns. Once they start traveling in large numbers, we will likely have a big wave. There’s a part of me that wonders if the Chinese know something we don’t…like what if the virus was designed to mutate into something horrific or leave lasting health issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One thing to consider is that when a preventative measure does its job, it seems like it’s unnecessary. Remember that the reason to stay home wasn’t just to prevent deaths, it was to “flatten the curve.”

some businesses thrived. The richest became richer. The businesses that didn’t were owned mostly by small business owners and the government could have done more to help them.

With schools, I do think they were closed for too long, but the big problem is that we ignore learning loss. The kids and teachers are expected to start back up as though the pandemic didn’t happen which is patently ridiculous. There also just aren’t enough psychological supports in place for kids.

So in my mind it’s less an issue of draconian measures (schools excepted) as it is a failure to support the impacts of closures.

Agree with this. We can sort of compare the Chinese/Asian response to covid, the European response to covid, and ours. And while the US response varied by location, and the DMV was one of the more conservative areas of the country, our response was overall much more lenient than other areas of the world.

OP sounds a bit out of touch, tbh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am reading this book Gone Viral by Justin Hart.

https://www.target.com/p/gone-viral-by-justin-hart-hardcover/-/A-85951670?ref=tgt_adv_XS000000&AFID=google_pla_df&fndsrc=tgtao&DFA=71700000012510700&CPNG=PLA_Entertainment%2BShopping%7CEntertainment_Ecomm_Hardlines&adgroup=SC_Entertainment&LID=700000001170770pgs&LNM=PRODUCT_GROUP&network=g&device=m&location=9010826&targetid=pla-308131048976&ds_rl=1246978&ds_rl=1248099&gbraid=0AAAAAD-5dfZPCe1ifnGRpd9X57uPP-Ady&gbraid=0AAAAAD-5dfZPCe1ifnGRpd9X57uPP-Ady&gclid=EAIaIQobChMInbDK2I_e-wIV2RXUAR2m3QdHEAQYASABEgJz__D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

We really got so much wrong with our response to Covid. I fear so much for our children and the business les that failed due to the draconian measures out in place by 50 governors and all the school districts.

I heard the author talking about how swingsets in certain California parks are still locked.

The disease killed so few statistically. So many died due to failure to thrive because they were not allowed visits and human contact. The mentally challenged died not able to be visited by their long time caregivers. The medical field lost so much money as elective procedures were cancelled.

The thing is I believe this will happen again and the power hungry brokers will once again put in these horrid measures.

You are…. Uninformed. School districts didn’t make decisions, governors did.
I don’t know any who died from failure to thrive.. I know many who died from Covid.

You sound republican. I’m so sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think our biggest mistake was using shame as a tool to brainwash people to the point where we still have people wearing masks in their car or in their private office. We fueled next-level anxiety that people still can’t shake…even those who have had and easily beat covid.

I know far too many people who still mask and isolate their kids even though these kids essentially have language delays and lack social skills due to their parents’ overzealous precautions even after vaccinations were widely available.

Having said that, I am starting to wonder what will happen once China eases up their lockdowns. Once they start traveling in large numbers, we will likely have a big wave. There’s a part of me that wonders if the Chinese know something we don’t…like what if the virus was designed to mutate into something horrific or leave lasting health issues.

Amazing comment because the second half explains why the first half happened. Fear of the unknown and distrust of institutions is what drove the paranoia and contributed to use of shame and ostracism to enforce Covid precautions. Which in turn amps up social and political division and this deepens institutional distrust. It’s a nasty cycle.

Here are things I think we need to consider next time:

- More carrots, fewer sticks. Instead of mask mandates, governments should provide masks freely to individuals and businesses. Instead of a sign at the grocery store telling you to put on a mask, there’s a person there handing you a mask and saying “for the protection of yourself and others.” Wearing it is optional. I absolutely believe this would result in higher levels of compliance because it’s supportive and encouraging. Same with vaccines, or social distancing. Make these things easy and convenient and then tell people it’s their choice.

- More neutral education from scientific sources. No more politicians telling you how to respond to the pandemic, more doctors and CDC officials offering information and current best practices. Be honest about what we don’t know do that when recommendations change, people don’t feel tricked. Assume a certain amount of people will disregard recommendations and accept this is inevitable in a free society.

- This one is harder, but we need more agreement about what social services are most valuable and thus require more effort to keep in place. Where I live, here was the order of reopening of businesses and services: bars/restaurants, then retail, then the DMV, then other government services, then our local school. That’s not a proper ordering of value and risk, IMO. We need to talk about this and find done consensus. If you agree with how we did this and assume there is broad consensus, please know: there isn’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hindsight is always 20/20.

Yes, which is why discussing what we did wrong and seeking to correct in next time is valuable.

It’s so weird to me how many people don’t want to discuss what we got wrong with our Covid response, as though even discussing it is taboo. How the heck are we going to learn from it then? We can acknowledge that many mistakes were unintentional and based on imperfect information while still accepting that they were mistakes and identify what we can do better in the future.

(Not OP, btw, it’s just amazing to me that every time someone wants to discuss what went wrong, so many people instantly feel defensive and threatened. It makes no sense.)

I don’t believe you are viewing the response through the correct lens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am reading this book Gone Viral by Justin Hart.

https://www.target.com/p/gone-viral-by-justin-hart-hardcover/-/A-85951670?ref=tgt_adv_XS000000&AFID=google_pla_df&fndsrc=tgtao&DFA=71700000012510700&CPNG=PLA_Entertainment%2BShopping%7CEntertainment_Ecomm_Hardlines&adgroup=SC_Entertainment&LID=700000001170770pgs&LNM=PRODUCT_GROUP&network=g&device=m&location=9010826&targetid=pla-308131048976&ds_rl=1246978&ds_rl=1248099&gbraid=0AAAAAD-5dfZPCe1ifnGRpd9X57uPP-Ady&gbraid=0AAAAAD-5dfZPCe1ifnGRpd9X57uPP-Ady&gclid=EAIaIQobChMInbDK2I_e-wIV2RXUAR2m3QdHEAQYASABEgJz__D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

We really got so much wrong with our response to Covid. I fear so much for our children and the business les that failed due to the draconian measures out in place by 50 governors and all the school districts.

I heard the author talking about how swingsets in certain California parks are still locked.

The disease killed so few statistically. So many died due to failure to thrive because they were not allowed visits and human contact. The mentally challenged died not able to be visited by their long time caregivers. The medical field lost so much money as elective procedures were cancelled.

The thing is I believe this will happen again and the power hungry brokers will once again put in these horrid measures.

You are…. Uninformed. School districts didn’t make decisions, governors did.
I don’t know any who died from failure to thrive.. I know many who died from Covid.

You sound republican. I’m so sorry.

The vast majority who died were elderly, obese, had other co-morbities. This is not a political issue. We applied draconian rules to everyone. We are not talking about other countries, we are talking about what we did here.

Those rules were implemented not by governors solely, some school districts were not applying the rules universally across the states.

Many many people didn’t die from Covid, they died with Covid. Those who failed to thrive did so while not being allowed to to be visited by family in their nursing homes or other end of life facilities. You had to have masked funerals over zoom with loved ones not in attendance to an outdoor gravesite.

We have kids who needed face contact without masks to learns to speak correctly. They could sit on the side of each other yet all lay down next to each other for nap time.

Heck there are people on DCUM who won’t go out to eat and are still masking to this day!

[Anonymous]

Getting the info out there as a legit health concern was good. Recommended masking was good. Getting vaccines was good. Closing schools/daycares and stores/businesses was not good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Getting the info out there as a legit health concern was good. Recommended masking was good. Getting vaccines was good. Closing schools/daycares and stores/businesses was not good.

Masking without N-95 masks had zero impact. We never should have masked!