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Political Discussion
Gaza War, Part 3
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Anonymous
I imagine you think people don’t see through that statement. Hamas members, like all human beings, have a fight for survival instinct. So you already know that your stated objected of “once Hamas is destroyed” is empty talk. But in the meantime, genocide isn’t a deal breaker for you. You’re a disgrace. If you have ancestors who were holocaust victims, they are spinning in their graves at your callous disregard for human life. |
Anonymous
This discussion started with a post about an Al Jazeera journalist being abducted and tortured by the IDF before being released. Someone responded with what you would call a conspiracy theory. This poster suggested both that the story was fabricated (a "psy op") AND that the journalist deserved to be ill-treated (this "indicated" by a string of vague, rambling tweets). I suggested the "psy op" was more likely to come from the other side. It is EXTREMELY likely that Al Jazeera's accusation is correct because there is such very clear evidence that the IDF regularly commits war crimes of this type. I have a first-hand account from a Palestinian poet I know and trust. His experience was very similar experience to that of this journalist. He was kidnapped, forced to strip, blindfolded, had his hands tied, was accused of being Hamas, and was severely beaten. Thankfully for him, he had friends in the U.S. State Department who intervened to demand his release. Additionally, there are video tapes, some made by IDF soldiers, of IDF brutalizing and abusing Palestinian men in exactly the same way both my friend and this journalist described. The IDF routinely behaves this way. The abuse is entirely predictable and believable. The truth is more important than pandering to people's feelings. As an American, it was "deeply upsetting" to me to learn about prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib, but I found it comforting that the culprits were held accountable. If you are "deeply upset" by the IDF's behavior, perhaps demanding that the IDF not behave like lawless, bullying thugs would be more helpful than trying to suppress information. Many of us do not see the situation the way you do. Please respect our right to be upset by children being starved to death, tens of thousands of people being butchered en masse, and Palestinians being abducted and tortured. Many of us feel Israel has a long history of diabolical treatment of the Palestinians, and it upsets us to see Palestinians victim-blamed. You can be upset all you want, but so can the rest of us. Your view is not, as you seem to believe, the only one that counts. |
Anonymous
This particular poster certainly seems to hold these narcissistic beliefs. They appear to believe that the "deeply upsetting" discomfort stemming from hearing about Israel's war crimes is more significant and deserves more sympathy than the effects of the war crimes themselves. Sorry, but I'm much more upset about children being deliberately starved to death and prisoners being beaten in custody than I am about their frustration that they can't silence these embarrassing facts! I wish they could relinquish their astonishing entitlement long enough to understand that Palestinians are human too and are not disposable, without value, and an inconvenience to be eradicated. |
Anonymous
Israel's atrocities are feeding sympathy across the world for Palestinian rights. Hamas will not be destroyed until there is justice for Palestinians. It's unfortunate, but no oppressive colonial system has ever been overthrown without violence. Like the ANC or the Mau Mau, Hamas will eventually either reinvent itself as a non-violent organization or fade away but not before there is some sort of accounting for the wrongs of Israeli colonialism and its brutal history of ethnic cleansing. Hamas will most likely regroup with massive global support after this war. The best outcome would be that it gains enough political clout to allow it to exert diplomatic and economic pressure rather than that it continues with violent outbursts. |
Anonymous
Jewish people have lived in Israel since 2,000 BCE. They have been the primary native population since the same date. And they are currently facing an active genocide being carried out by the democratic government of Palestine/Gaza. Meanwhile, globally, Jewish individuals are being attacked, and killed because of their Jewish faith, only for the government to pretend that these are unrelated events. Don’t believe me? Look at all the prominent, strong, and beloved Jews brutally murdered just in the United States since 10/7. Don’t tell the government though, all of these are completely unrelated to their Jewish faith or Israel’s defense of its sovereignty and historical lands: https://www.jta.org/2024/03/04/united-states/calls-mount-to-investigate-antisemitism-in-killing-of-san-diego-jewish-dentist-benjamin-harouni https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/samantha-woll-update-coming-from-wayne-county-prosecutor.amp https://apnews.com/article/man-killed-california-protests-israel-hamas-war-13eb9cd0305dc0d0d822c355db7b1de6 This is what violent, deadly anti-semitism looks like. And this is why many outspoken, proud Jews like me are terrified to even go about our daily lives. We aren’t evil people, we don’t want dead Palestinians, we just want to see our hostages returned, and Hamas destroyed so Palestinians can actually work towards a better world, a World where Palestinians and Israelis can live together without Hamas actively trying to commit Genocide against their Israeli neighbors. Where Palestine teaches their youth about how Israel has supported them and been a good neighbor to them, not how Israel and Jews must be eradicated. We just want a World where the UN treats Israel fairly, rather than taking every opportunity to call Israel’s defense a genocide. But what do we get? We get a World where Biden attacks Islamophobia - not the very real anti-semitism occurring daily. https://www.trtworld.com/us-and-canada/biden-slams-islamophobia-but-muslim-group-seeks-policy-change-over-words-17378336 We get a World where Biden (and other global leaders) calls for a ceasefire, but doesn’t stand firmly by the side of one of our strongest Allie’s. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/biden-says-pushed-netanyahu-temporary-ceasefire-2024-02-16/ We get a world where the UN runs a sham trial claiming that the defense of Israel constitutes a genocide - while the same sham of a body ignores Hamas’ decades-long genocide against Jewish people. https://apnews.com/article/israel-gaza-genocide-court-south-africa-27cf84e16082cde798395a95e9143c06 We live in a World where a normally moderate parenting forum has a thousands of pages long thread about a war across the Country from us full of people so upset over the very existence of a singular Jewish State is so disturbing to them that they have - repeatedly - resorted to calling the very act of that state defending itself - and it’s right to exist - akin to the absolute depravity of Hitler’s Nazi Germany. And you wonder why Jewish people are scared, and traumatized. Why we are, if my circle of friends, praying desperately for a serious change in the political leadership of this country - even though for most of us the majority of the oppositions policy goes against our own beliefs. |
Anonymous
Me, me, me. Not even a fleeting thought that there might be others to give thought and consideration to. If anti-semitism is so prevalent in the U.S. under President Biden, how do you explain the extraordinary concentration (relative to population) of Jewish members of his cabinet? Less than 3% of the population occupying around 55% of the seats at the table, disproportionately afforded a collective voice that benefits Israel’s interests. Similarly, how do you explain the blind, unconditional financial welfare the U.S. provides to Israel, the fact that the U.S. State Dept. circumvents federal law to provision and resupply Israel with weapons systems and consumables (in unprecedented fashion), and the fact that the U.N. blatantly interferes at the U.N. on Israel’s behalf year after year, atrocity after atrocity? How do you keep a straight face while characterizing yourself as the victim? The gall … |
Anonymous
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Not sure if this has been posted already but millions face starvation in Gaza due to Israel preventing aid from entering Gaza. These are war crimes.
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/03/19/middleeast/famine-northern-gaza-starvation-ipc-report-intl-hnk/index.html |
Anonymous
Native Americans lived on these lands thousands of years. Let’s see how you’d feel if they rose up and started killing your people to reclaim the land. |
Anonymous
Oh look, the man with a thousand links. I thought he only frequented the Ukraine thread. |
Anonymous
b b b b but that's different |
Anonymous
I'm willing to bet everything I own that no Israeli general will ever be sitting in the dock at the Hague for war crimes |
Anonymous
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“There are more than 17,000 Palestinian children who have been orphaned or separated from their parents during the war in Gaza, according to the United Nations Children’s Fund, or UNICEF”
And this is another tragic outcome of the conflict. How can anyone think this is justified? Or think that Israelis are more of a victim than Palestinians. I just do not get it. |
Anonymous
Fortunately, the Israelis were able to kill Marwan Issa yesterday. He was the Hamas leader responsible for stealing more than 60 percent of all the food aid in Gaza, which Hamas then sells at exorbitant prices to the few that can afford it while everyone else goes hungry. Tragically for Palestinians, Hamas is a death cult. They want Palestinians to die. It's a difficult thing to work around. Hopefully more air drops will help alleviate some of the food shortages. But nothing is going to really change until the entire Hamas leadership is eliminated. |
Anonymous
Who are you defining as Hamas? The militant wing? Or those that worked in other government roles? And why do you think Hamas exists? Do you think at their core Palestinians are monsters? Are Israelis monsters for killing and injuring 100k+ people? Leaving 17k children orphans. Subjecting 100s of thousands to hunger at risk for famine? Displacing almost the entire 1.9million Gazans and destroying basically all of their homes? Yes, you can focus all of your anger for the hostages being taken on Hamas but if you want Israel to live in peace without risk of future attacks you must think beyond your anger and see - and treat - Israel’s neighbors as human beings. Wiping out Hamas with all of this collateral damage is simply not making Israel safer in the long term. |
Anonymous
Source for the fact that Marwan Issa stole 60% of food aid in Gaza please? |