Another gunman, another elementary school

[Anonymous]

Just when the world couldn’t get any worse (or so you thought!)

😢

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:How was Ramos able to enter the school? Were the doors unlocked, and anybody could just walk in holding a machine gun?

How did he gets machined gun?

I heard he bought the gun at a store. But how did he enter the school was the question I asked - was it not locked? Our public is locked after school starts.

Do you think a locked door is stopping a guy with a machine gun? Jfc.

Yes, I do. For a while at least, maybe he could have been shot by an officer outside. We have locks on our house and office. Locks are a great device for doors. If used.

Sandy Hook was locked.

Stop playing devils advocate. You lock your home front door. You lock your car. You have a keychain with keys for locks. And if a psycho with a machine gun came to your house, you damn well know you'd lock the door.

DP. And the psycho with a machine gun would blow right through your door. I mean, locks didn’t work at Sandy Hook because the shooter shot his way through the door.

You assume. You don't know. Maybe all officers needed was a delay. And what if the classroom door was locked too. But like what I stated previously, if Ramos came to your house with an AR-15, you would lock the door. But I suppose you may play devils advocate here and allege the lock is useless, calling police useless, and you'd just leave the door open and see.

Did they say the school wasn’t locked? The classroom?

He got in through a side door, and they're unsure whether it was unlocked or he blew out the lock.

Oh they know but are not saying.

Report back anyone if you hear more

CNN says the door was not locked.

"The gunman was able to enter the school "unimpeded" by any locks, Olivarez said, and gunfire was exchanged inside the school hallway between the gunman and officers who were right behind him."

That's a major failure on the school's part. I think the killer may have staked out the school before to know this since he said he would shoot up an elem. school. Aren't most schools locked?

I guess not there. Both of ours are in NOVA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

DP. Then GTFO of my country.

It’s not “your” country. It’s our country.

And our country has a gun problem. Most Americans support common sense gun laws. We don’t want the violence of a third world country.

+1000

If you love guns so much then go move somewhere overrun with gang violence so you can caress your guns and ammo each night while wet dreaming about playing the “good guy with a gun.” The rest of us grownups will try to solve the violence in this country and will not miss you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are a LO or a SRO you are signing up to sacrifice yourself if need be. They absolutely should have went in after him. Especially if there was more than one of them

Unfortunately, that's not what their training tells them to do:

Police training starts in the academy, where the concept of officer safety is so heavily emphasized that it takes on almost religious significance. Rookie officers are taught what is widely known as the “first rule of law enforcement”: An officer’s overriding goal every day is to go home at the end of their shift.

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/12/police-gun-shooting-training-ferguson/383681/

Sorry, this is applicable when rooms full of 9 and 10 yr olds are getting slaughtered. You don’t just stand outside and wait.

It's inapplicable to any active shooter post Columbine. The thinking used to be that you want to calm and negotiate with a gunman to save lives, but now it's go in fast and search out the shooter before they can kill more people. These cops decided to wait

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/15/us/florida-school-shooting-columbine-lessons/index.html

I'm not going to sit in judgement of cops who made choices under difficult circumstances. We'd all like to think that we would have done better when faced with the prospect of dying kids, but half of DC has had the luxury of working of been sitting at home because of COVID. Most of us are hardly the warriors for the public good (with the exception of frontline workers).

At this point we are all collectively responsible for this. We are all sitting here outraged on the internet every time this happens, then after a few days everything returns to “normal” and we are unwilling to go out of our comfort zones to do anything about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are a LO or a SRO you are signing up to sacrifice yourself if need be. They absolutely should have went in after him. Especially if there was more than one of them

Unfortunately, that's not what their training tells them to do:

Police training starts in the academy, where the concept of officer safety is so heavily emphasized that it takes on almost religious significance. Rookie officers are taught what is widely known as the “first rule of law enforcement”: An officer’s overriding goal every day is to go home at the end of their shift.

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/12/police-gun-shooting-training-ferguson/383681/

Sorry, this is applicable when rooms full of 9 and 10 yr olds are getting slaughtered. You don’t just stand outside and wait.

It's inapplicable to any active shooter post Columbine. The thinking used to be that you want to calm and negotiate with a gunman to save lives, but now it's go in fast and search out the shooter before they can kill more people. These cops decided to wait

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/15/us/florida-school-shooting-columbine-lessons/index.html

Waiting to "secure the perimeter" and form a "tactical stack" is 100% against widely-known, national best practices for responding to an active shooter situation. The police either ignored their own training, or the department was negligent in making sure their department knew how to respond.

https://www.theiacp.org/resources/policy-center-resource/active-shooter

https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/critical-issues-policing-series-police-response-active-shooter

https://police.buffalostate.edu/active-shooter-response-and-procedures (scroll to the bottom)

I have a sinking feeling that same thing is happening in Uvalde as happened in Parkland: the police are going to claim they acted swiftly and bravely, and it's going to turn out that they dithered, and it cost lives.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/12/us/parkland-shooting-florida-commission-report.html

[Anonymous]

Sure, I understand that. I have a 7 year old, I don’t know what I’d do. What about the rest of this? What is going on with this comment thread — does anyone else feel shocked at the lack of engagement of on-scene officers? Anyone else willing to call cowardice out as plain, bald, cowardice?

I’m willing to withhold judgement until much more is known and verified. There are conflicting accounts. If the shooter was confronted by the resource officer after he entered the building — which is one scenario that has been reported — then it’s possible the presence of other children prevented a firefight. The officer had something like 9 bullets. The shooter at least 210.

Watch the video linked. I’m tired of this “I’m sooo reasonable and calm and lets all just wait” shit, because I think it’s an impediment to actual discussion, and to more people actually understanding the limitations of ‘good guy’ theory.

Can you repost the link? I didn’t see it in the hidden quotes and I’m not reading through 20 pages to find it

Is this the video?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dyXtymq-A6w

Harrowing videos captured the heartbreaking wails of parents begging cops to “Go protect the kids!” during the Texas school shooting — with some suggesting they “just rush” the school themselves.

One of the disturbing clips shows several parents trying to get past police lines. One woman appeared to be pinned on the ground by an officer, with an onlooker screaming, “What the f–k are you doing to her? Let her go!” Angry parents confronting officers standing around outside, with the livestreamer saying that it had “already been about an hour and they still can’t get the kids all out.”

“That’s f—ing crazy, bro — they’re standing all outside [and] there’s f—ing kids in there still, man,” he said.
One mom yelled at an officer, “You’re scared of getting shot? I’ll go in without a vest — I will!” As an officer tells them to stand back, one mom wails, “You don’t understand!” Another shouts, “Are your kids in there? No!”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SRO did not even try. Any normally constituted adult would have risked their lives to try to prevent the certain death of many kids. Also the shooter had already shot his grandma. Local schools should have been on lock-down and the SROs should have been ready when he arrived and crashed the truck. Those poor kids died alone hoping someone would come to their rescue.

But even apart from that, the police were right on him, correct? And waited an hour and a half? If that is now established fact, there needs to be some kind of federal investigation, public Congressional hearings, and I’d support - with family consent - blurred face photos of the deceased to show AR damage to the victims. This is insane. I’m not aware of this kind of pussy-footing in the response to active shooter scenes. The Uvalde victims were sacrificed in part BY the law enforcement officers on the scene because of their cowardice. Call it what it is!

I’m pretty sure I would not be willing to release a photo of my dead 10 year old after they had been shot with an assault rifle. The image would stay in the web forever and be used for the most horrible of purposes.

Sure, I understand that. I have a 7 year old, I don’t know what I’d do. What about the rest of this? What is going on with this comment thread — does anyone else feel shocked at the lack of engagement of on-scene officers? Anyone else willing to call cowardice out as plain, bald, cowardice?

I’m willing to withhold judgement until much more is known and verified. There are conflicting accounts. If the shooter was confronted by the resource officer after he entered the building — which is one scenario that has been reported — then it’s possible the presence of other children prevented a firefight. The officer had something like 9 bullets. The shooter at least 210.

Watch the video linked. I’m tired of this “I’m sooo reasonable and calm and lets all just wait” shit, because I think it’s an impediment to actual discussion, and to more people actually understanding the limitations of ‘good guy’ theory.

Can you repost the link? I didn’t see it in the hidden quotes and I’m not reading through 20 pages to find it

Is this the video?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dyXtymq-A6w

Harrowing videos captured the heartbreaking wails of parents begging cops to “Go protect the kids!” during the Texas school shooting — with some suggesting they “just rush” the school themselves.

One of the disturbing clips shows several parents trying to get past police lines. One woman appeared to be pinned on the ground by an officer, with an onlooker screaming, “What the f–k are you doing to her? Let her go!” Angry parents confronting officers standing around outside, with the livestreamer saying that it had “already been about an hour and they still can’t get the kids all out.”

“That’s f—ing crazy, bro — they’re standing all outside [and] there’s f—ing kids in there still, man,” he said. One mom yelled at an officer, “You’re scared of getting shot? I’ll go in without a vest — I will!” As an officer tells them to stand back, one mom wails, “You don’t understand!” Another shouts, “Are your kids in there? No!”
https://nypost.com/2022/05/26/videos-show-parents-begging-cops-to-stop-texas-school-shooting/amp/

[Anonymous]

School students are starting walkouts in my area.

It's amazing that people are making arguments FOR ASSAULT RIFLES!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

School students are starting walkouts in my area.

It's amazing that people are making arguments FOR ASSAULT RIFLES!

Sounds like they will be easy targets… let them go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are a LO or a SRO you are signing up to sacrifice yourself if need be. They absolutely should have went in after him. Especially if there was more than one of them

Unfortunately, that's not what their training tells them to do:

Police training starts in the academy, where the concept of officer safety is so heavily emphasized that it takes on almost religious significance. Rookie officers are taught what is widely known as the “first rule of law enforcement”: An officer’s overriding goal every day is to go home at the end of their shift.

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/12/police-gun-shooting-training-ferguson/383681/

Sorry, this is applicable when rooms full of 9 and 10 yr olds are getting slaughtered. You don’t just stand outside and wait.

It's inapplicable to any active shooter post Columbine. The thinking used to be that you want to calm and negotiate with a gunman to save lives, but now it's go in fast and search out the shooter before they can kill more people. These cops decided to wait

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/15/us/florida-school-shooting-columbine-lessons/index.html

I'm not going to sit in judgement of cops who made choices under difficult circumstances. We'd all like to think that we would have done better when faced with the prospect of dying kids, but half of DC has had the luxury of working of been sitting at home because of COVID. Most of us are hardly the warriors for the public good (with the exception of frontline workers).

At this point we are all collectively responsible for this. We are all sitting here outraged on the internet every time this happens, then after a few days everything returns to “normal” and we are unwilling to go out of our comfort zones to do anything about it.

Yes…Ana a majority of Americans have supported for stricter gun control for a long time now. We are being held hostage by some politicians in bed with the NRA. Dems are reluctant to keep putting forward because it makes them look weak for not being able to pass anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are a LO or a SRO you are signing up to sacrifice yourself if need be. They absolutely should have went in after him. Especially if there was more than one of them

Unfortunately, that's not what their training tells them to do:

Police training starts in the academy, where the concept of officer safety is so heavily emphasized that it takes on almost religious significance. Rookie officers are taught what is widely known as the “first rule of law enforcement”: An officer’s overriding goal every day is to go home at the end of their shift.

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/12/police-gun-shooting-training-ferguson/383681/

Sorry, this is applicable when rooms full of 9 and 10 yr olds are getting slaughtered. You don’t just stand outside and wait.

It's inapplicable to any active shooter post Columbine. The thinking used to be that you want to calm and negotiate with a gunman to save lives, but now it's go in fast and search out the shooter before they can kill more people. These cops decided to wait

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/15/us/florida-school-shooting-columbine-lessons/index.html

Waiting to "secure the perimeter" and form a "tactical stack" is 100% against widely-known, national best practices for responding to an active shooter situation. The police either ignored their own training, or the department was negligent in making sure their department knew how to respond.

https://www.theiacp.org/resources/policy-center-resource/active-shooter

https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/critical-issues-policing-series-police-response-active-shooter

https://police.buffalostate.edu/active-shooter-response-and-procedures (scroll to the bottom)

I have a sinking feeling that same thing is happening in Uvalde as happened in Parkland: the police are going to claim they acted swiftly and bravely, and it's going to turn out that they dithered, and it cost lives.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/12/us/parkland-shooting-florida-commission-report.html

That’s why Biden should expose them through his FBI investigation. Let them be the scapegoats for their extreme failure and lies as a reason to push gun control. I’m tired of Biden working for a consensus. He needs to pull everything out and fight for our kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are a LO or a SRO you are signing up to sacrifice yourself if need be. They absolutely should have went in after him. Especially if there was more than one of them

Unfortunately, that's not what their training tells them to do:

Police training starts in the academy, where the concept of officer safety is so heavily emphasized that it takes on almost religious significance. Rookie officers are taught what is widely known as the “first rule of law enforcement”: An officer’s overriding goal every day is to go home at the end of their shift.

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/12/police-gun-shooting-training-ferguson/383681/

Sorry, this is applicable when rooms full of 9 and 10 yr olds are getting slaughtered. You don’t just stand outside and wait.

It's inapplicable to any active shooter post Columbine. The thinking used to be that you want to calm and negotiate with a gunman to save lives, but now it's go in fast and search out the shooter before they can kill more people. These cops decided to wait

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/15/us/florida-school-shooting-columbine-lessons/index.html

I'm not going to sit in judgement of cops who made choices under difficult circumstances. We'd all like to think that we would have done better when faced with the prospect of dying kids, but half of DC has had the luxury of working of been sitting at home because of COVID. Most of us are hardly the warriors for the public good (with the exception of frontline workers).

At this point we are all collectively responsible for this. We are all sitting here outraged on the internet every time this happens, then after a few days everything returns to “normal” and we are unwilling to go out of our comfort zones to do anything about it.

What should we do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are a LO or a SRO you are signing up to sacrifice yourself if need be. They absolutely should have went in after him. Especially if there was more than one of them

Unfortunately, that's not what their training tells them to do:

Police training starts in the academy, where the concept of officer safety is so heavily emphasized that it takes on almost religious significance. Rookie officers are taught what is widely known as the “first rule of law enforcement”: An officer’s overriding goal every day is to go home at the end of their shift.

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/12/police-gun-shooting-training-ferguson/383681/

Sorry, this is applicable when rooms full of 9 and 10 yr olds are getting slaughtered. You don’t just stand outside and wait.

It's inapplicable to any active shooter post Columbine. The thinking used to be that you want to calm and negotiate with a gunman to save lives, but now it's go in fast and search out the shooter before they can kill more people. These cops decided to wait

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/15/us/florida-school-shooting-columbine-lessons/index.html

I'm not going to sit in judgement of cops who made choices under difficult circumstances. We'd all like to think that we would have done better when faced with the prospect of dying kids, but half of DC has had the luxury of working of been sitting at home because of COVID. Most of us are hardly the warriors for the public good (with the exception of frontline workers).

At this point we are all collectively responsible for this. We are all sitting here outraged on the internet every time this happens, then after a few days everything returns to “normal” and we are unwilling to go out of our comfort zones to do anything about it.

What should we do?

https://momsdemandaction.org/act/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are a LO or a SRO you are signing up to sacrifice yourself if need be. They absolutely should have went in after him. Especially if there was more than one of them

Unfortunately, that's not what their training tells them to do:

Police training starts in the academy, where the concept of officer safety is so heavily emphasized that it takes on almost religious significance. Rookie officers are taught what is widely known as the “first rule of law enforcement”: An officer’s overriding goal every day is to go home at the end of their shift.

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/12/police-gun-shooting-training-ferguson/383681/

Sorry, this is applicable when rooms full of 9 and 10 yr olds are getting slaughtered. You don’t just stand outside and wait.

It's inapplicable to any active shooter post Columbine. The thinking used to be that you want to calm and negotiate with a gunman to save lives, but now it's go in fast and search out the shooter before they can kill more people. These cops decided to wait

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/15/us/florida-school-shooting-columbine-lessons/index.html

I'm not going to sit in judgement of cops who made choices under difficult circumstances. We'd all like to think that we would have done better when faced with the prospect of dying kids, but half of DC has had the luxury of working of been sitting at home because of COVID. Most of us are hardly the warriors for the public good (with the exception of frontline workers).

At this point we are all collectively responsible for this. We are all sitting here outraged on the internet every time this happens, then after a few days everything returns to “normal” and we are unwilling to go out of our comfort zones to do anything about it.

What should we do?

Keep donating, protesting, writing politicians, and voting. The pp is wrong that so many people are back to business.

I vowed after Sandy Hook that I’d do what I can and make annual donations and have been to Moms Demand protests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

School students are starting walkouts in my area.

It's amazing that people are making arguments FOR ASSAULT RIFLES!

Sounds like they will be easy targets… let them go.

This is funny to you? My co-worker's son asks all the time now if he's going to get shot at school. That cool with you?