Academic Decline and Depression - Strategies for Balancing?

[Anonymous]

I'm seeking help changing my mindset about academic expectations. DD, 15, is bright and very capable, but has never been an academic superstar. That's fine. But, she also gets frustrated that she doesn't do better in school - yet it appears to me that she doesn't do a whole lot to change the situation.

That's where the dilemma arises. She has pretty extreme anxiety and, for essentially two years now, depression. We are working on that and she has good support.

If we push, she feels pressure. And it doesn't translate into improvements in grades. In fact, it can backfire.

She honestly seems unable to study for and/or take tests. She will NOT let us help. But it also appears she does not do the work require to do okay. Then she feels demoralized because she did badly. I learned long ago that pointing out that studying would have helped only leads to arguing. She feels badly enough already. Rinse repeat. I know some will say "tutors!" - but it's a "you can lead a horse to water" situation. She's not willing.

I know depression impacts her ability to focus. And I'm sympathetic. But I also know that she's closing doors of opportunity as the years go by. She is going to regret not putting in more effort, or at least regret not being able to put in more effort. But if we push her, her mental health suffers even more (low self-esteem).

How do we balance preserving her mental health now, while also setting her up for success in the future? It seems a no-win situation to me. I can't figure out how to communicate that grades are not the most important thing, but that they are important, because in reality, they are.

Thank you for advice from anyone who has been in this situation.

[Anonymous]

Is it possible she has inattentive ADHD? That's worth looking into. Adjusting medication for anxiety/ depression . Is she willing to address her fear of making an effort in school in therapy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm seeking help changing my mindset about academic expectations. DD, 15, is bright and very capable, but has never been an academic superstar. That's fine. But, she also gets frustrated that she doesn't do better in school - yet it appears to me that she doesn't do a whole lot to change the situation.

That's where the dilemma arises. She has pretty extreme anxiety and, for essentially two years now, depression. We are working on that and she has good support.

If we push, she feels pressure. And it doesn't translate into improvements in grades. In fact, it can backfire.

She honestly seems unable to study for and/or take tests. She will NOT let us help. But it also appears she does not do the work require to do okay. Then she feels demoralized because she did badly. I learned long ago that pointing out that studying would have helped only leads to arguing. She feels badly enough already. Rinse repeat. I know some will say "tutors!" - but it's a "you can lead a horse to water" situation. She's not willing.

I know depression impacts her ability to focus. And I'm sympathetic. But I also know that she's closing doors of opportunity as the years go by. She is going to regret not putting in more effort, or at least regret not being able to put in more effort. But if we push her, her mental health suffers even more (low self-esteem).

How do we balance preserving her mental health now, while also setting her up for success in the future? It seems a no-win situation to me. I can't figure out how to communicate that grades are not the most important thing, but that they are important, because in reality, they are.

Thank you for advice from anyone who has been in this situation.

Unfortunately I don't have answers. But know you aren't alone, my DC is similar and older which means college looms close. Lots of supports are in place, but they can't seem to motivate and I fear the ship is sinking fast on their hopes for next year. Nagging doesn't work and only leads to yelling which definitely doesn't work. If others have successfully come out the other side, I'd love to hear what worked. I'm not stuck on college next year, lots of people I know took unconventional paths but DC says they want it and it makes me sad that the anxiety seems to so paralyzing that it prevents any positive actions toward the goal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is it possible she has inattentive ADHD? That's worth looking into. Adjusting medication for anxiety/ depression . Is she willing to address her fear of making an effort in school in therapy?

She does have inattentive ADHD. We have tried medication, without success. We've tried it for both the ADHD and the depression, both without success. She is convinced medication does not work, and based on her self-reporting, it does not. I do wonder sometimes if you can almost will medication to not work.

She is not in therapy at the moment but may restart soon. We are gently encouraging that. But, as with school, for her, there is a fine line between encouraging and pushing.

I worry about her so much and go back and forth between feeling I should push harder now vs. just let expectations go. There's no telling which is the right decision. It's so very hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm seeking help changing my mindset about academic expectations. DD, 15, is bright and very capable, but has never been an academic superstar. That's fine. But, she also gets frustrated that she doesn't do better in school - yet it appears to me that she doesn't do a whole lot to change the situation.

That's where the dilemma arises. She has pretty extreme anxiety and, for essentially two years now, depression. We are working on that and she has good support.

If we push, she feels pressure. And it doesn't translate into improvements in grades. In fact, it can backfire.

She honestly seems unable to study for and/or take tests. She will NOT let us help. But it also appears she does not do the work require to do okay. Then she feels demoralized because she did badly. I learned long ago that pointing out that studying would have helped only leads to arguing. She feels badly enough already. Rinse repeat. I know some will say "tutors!" - but it's a "you can lead a horse to water" situation. She's not willing.

I know depression impacts her ability to focus. And I'm sympathetic. But I also know that she's closing doors of opportunity as the years go by. She is going to regret not putting in more effort, or at least regret not being able to put in more effort. But if we push her, her mental health suffers even more (low self-esteem).

How do we balance preserving her mental health now, while also setting her up for success in the future? It seems a no-win situation to me. I can't figure out how to communicate that grades are not the most important thing, but that they are important, because in reality, they are.

Thank you for advice from anyone who has been in this situation.

Unfortunately I don't have answers. But know you aren't alone, my DC is similar and older which means college looms close. Lots of supports are in place, but they can't seem to motivate and I fear the ship is sinking fast on their hopes for next year. Nagging doesn't work and only leads to yelling which definitely doesn't work. If others have successfully come out the other side, I'd love to hear what worked. I'm not stuck on college next year, lots of people I know took unconventional paths but DC says they want it and it makes me sad that the anxiety seems to so paralyzing that it prevents any positive actions toward the goal.

Yes - this is what is so hard. They want things - mine envisions going away to college too. But that requires certain things to happen now. While I'm okay with different paths, I'm not sure she will be, and regardless, the key is to have maximum choices. If you have the choice to go to college, but choose not to, it's different emotionally than not having the choice.

I know that there is always the small, nurturing, non-competitive route, but that's often very expensive. And honestly I'm not going to pay (and don't have the means to) for a school of that nature, when I honestly don't know if she'd do the work. In the end, college is still school. You will be expected to do the work. I actually think going away would be good for her - although she's unrealistic in her vision. She'd love to go away far (we're in MD, she says California). Truth is, she needs to go away, but not too far. And it's all moot if she doesn't improve in high school. She doesn't seem to understand that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it possible she has inattentive ADHD? That's worth looking into. Adjusting medication for anxiety/ depression . Is she willing to address her fear of making an effort in school in therapy?

She does have inattentive ADHD. We have tried medication, without success. We've tried it for both the ADHD and the depression, both without success. She is convinced medication does not work, and based on her self-reporting, it does not. I do wonder sometimes if you can almost will medication to not work.

She is not in therapy at the moment but may restart soon. We are gently encouraging that. But, as with school, for her, there is a fine line between encouraging and pushing.

I worry about her so much and go back and forth between feeling I should push harder now vs. just let expectations go. There's no telling which is the right decision. It's so very hard.

Strattera works for some on adhd and anxiety, takes awhile to start working bt might be worth a shot. I would try to get her in therapy, the depression is making her unable to make healthy choices. Once something starts helping, it will be make it easier for her to do more to help herself. There are a ton of different adhd meds and anti anxiety/ depression meds,don't give up hope.

[Anonymous]

There is no magic bullet. Therapy and meds are your best bet. Maybe consider genetic testing to determine which meds she metabolizes best. She also could have missed on foundational knowledge earlier, and is having difficulties understanding the material. Then tutors to the rescue.

[Anonymous]

I have had a lot of struggles with my similar-sounding kid. It helps me to analogize depression to dementia. Pushing someone with dementia to study more isn’t going to work. It just leads to more behavior problems. Until the brain is healthy you aren’t going to get anywhere. So if that means taking it easier and delaying college, that’s what we will do.

If it helps you, we have tried the pushing and it just made the mental health that much worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have had a lot of struggles with my similar-sounding kid. It helps me to analogize depression to dementia. Pushing someone with dementia to study more isn’t going to work. It just leads to more behavior problems. Until the brain is healthy you aren’t going to get anywhere. So if that means taking it easier and delaying college, that’s what we will do.

If it helps you, we have tried the pushing and it just made the mental health that much worse.

To summarize, you set her up for success by letting go of any expectations regarding college or timelines and focusing entirely on mental health. And I hope that works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have had a lot of struggles with my similar-sounding kid. It helps me to analogize depression to dementia. Pushing someone with dementia to study more isn’t going to work. It just leads to more behavior problems. Until the brain is healthy you aren’t going to get anywhere. So if that means taking it easier and delaying college, that’s what we will do.

If it helps you, we have tried the pushing and it just made the mental health that much worse.

To summarize, you set her up for success by letting go of any expectations regarding college or timelines and focusing entirely on mental health. And I hope that works.

Agree with this. Also, the treatments are therapy, EF coaching and meds. If what you have done hasn’t worked, try a different therapist, modality, meds, psychiatrist. That should be what you are pushing - finding and cooperating with a treatment plan.

[Anonymous]

BTDT. Here’s the thing. There is not just a single opportunity for a successful future. Community college is an opportunity for a do over. If what you’re doing isn’t making things better then you shouldn’t be doing it. And if the mental health issues are that severe, you need to make that a priority.

MCPS has programs for kids who struggle with mental health issues. If you are in MCPS you might want to check out what they have to offer.

[Anonymous]

I have a similar kid. Do you ever wonder if some of it is just hormones? I mean, I know that mental health diagnoses are real and potentially serious, but I keep thinking my kid will outgrow the slump.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a similar kid. Do you ever wonder if some of it is just hormones? I mean, I know that mental health diagnoses are real and potentially serious, but I keep thinking my kid will outgrow the slump.

This is OP. Thanks to everyone for the thoughtful and kind replies. To this PP, I did think this for the first year or two. It's now gone on too long. I fear we're in for a lifelong struggle.

I do have hope that, once out of the environment of school (high school or college, if she goes) she'll be much happier. She's bright, has a job that she does well at, etc. She can handle life, but doesn't conform to school well. But, the depression right now is real; she has very intense dark moods, and in some ways just sees the world for what it really is at an age where most people are still able to have optimism. That said, today appears to be a good day, so I'm trying to appreciate it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a similar kid. Do you ever wonder if some of it is just hormones? I mean, I know that mental health diagnoses are real and potentially serious, but I keep thinking my kid will outgrow the slump.

That was my mom’s philosophy and to some extent it was true-I mostly outgrew it in my 20s after being depressed since 14. But that’s a lot of years of misery, and in the meantime I developed some harmful self-medicating and self-soothing behaviors that got me in other kinds of trouble. So I don’t recommend it.

[Anonymous]

OP, what is her schedule like? Advanced classes? If so she needs a lot less of those. Likely her schedule, in it's entirety, is too difficult for her. Even if she's capable of performing ok in each specific class, all together, it's too much.