Race in college admissions is back in front of the Supreme Court Oral Argument on Oct. 31 (Monday)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Seriously? AA isn’t doing any favors by admitting unqualified black applicants into Harvard. What’s the dropout rate of black students in the pre-med track at Harvard? And what is the cost of the insane amount of academic tutoring and other support that Harvard must supply to black admits because they simply don’t have the academic credentials of their peers?

Isn't the hardest thing about Harvard getting in?

[Anonymous]

Pretty soon we'll be back to having child brides, slave plantations and a whole host of enlightened ideas from early America.

What voting rights?
What civil rights?
Women rights?

The long game of conservatism will never be defeated.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:wow this is crazy, you can be the 4th lowest decile aa and still be way above asians. crazy no wonder asians feel discriminated

Standardized tests are culturally biased and we're originally implemented by a racist.

If the index was normalized for tests, this alleged disparity ( SFFA is the source of this massaged data) would be much lower.

Anyways, the SAT / ACT impact will continue to diminish over time.

What are Asians and Whites in common but so much different for Blacks? culturally

What biase are we talking about?

What?

DP.. apparently, SATs are culturally bias, hence Black people score lower on SATs. But since Asian Americans score higher on SATs that must mean that they have more in common with white people.

That's the argument. And yes, it's laughable and ignorant.

Then what is your reason for AA people scoring lower?

Go ahead, say it out loud. I dare you. You know you think it. Have some courage and show everyone what you really think.

And that, right there, ladies and gents, is why colleges have the current policy.

How would anyone other than the kid know why they score lower?

I'll ask you this: how does an admission office who has never met the student give that student a low "personality" score even as the interviewer gave that student a high personality score.

Go ahead, say it out loud. I dare you. You know you think it. Have some courage and show everyone what you really think.

The argument that black kids don't do as well on SATs compared to Asian kids must mean that the SAT is culturally bias is a dumb argument, as if an Asian American is culturally closer to white America than a black kid whose ancestors have probably lived in the US for many generations.

I have no idea why they score lower. I was not making a claim to know. PP made a claim what they knew it wasn't.

You understand that difference, right?

And we are not talking about "the kid" taking the test, which is an absurd reference. We're talking about races of people and a policy designed by colleges to ensure they can get the students they want to build the class they need. These questions of why are gigantic academic and intellectual ones which we may never solve in our lifetime. However, we can ensure those reasons - whatever they are - don't continue to hurt people and stop colleges from building the class they want.

The "build the class they want" argument is the same argument that white people used way back to implement holistic admissions to keep out the Jews. It's basically social engineering in favor of one side over the other.

No it is not the same argument. In any way. One was designed to exclude a certain type of people, and the other is done to ensure one type of person is not excluded. This is so obvious and the fact that you deny it shows your bias

They both are designed to exclude qualified applicants in order to admit less qualified applicants. One is already illegal and the other will be once this decision is released.

No they are not. One is designed to not exclude certain people. I’ll keep saying it if you keep denying it.

Because you seem to think there are infinite seats. Something designed to include one group is also necessarily designed to exclude anyone who is not a member of that group

No I do not think there are infinite seats at Harvard. But I do think there are more places than students nationwide, because there are.

One is designed to not exclude certain people. Not. Exclude.

That argument goes both ways. Those seats are available to URMs as well.

If there is something inherently valuable about the Harvard seats, then people will have views on who "should" get them.

Except one means there will be nearly no balance across those seats, excluding certain races, and the other will have a balance representative to the population. Tell me which is worse - not which is worse for any individual kid who is unlikely to get in anyway, but worse for the college and worse for the country.

Why do you think anything should be balanced against the racial breakdown of the country? I can’t imagine a more infantile and idiotic thought. Shall we mandate that every NFL team be 7% Asian? Or that 2% of artists performing at MSG be jewish? Do you event relaid show stupid you are?

You're too logical! I'd like to see the response to this but of course it won't happen. Victim mentality folks only want to choose the arguments benefitting their position.

Stop it, victim mentality is all the rage. We must all bow to the alter of race and atone for our privilege it's the new law, any other opinion is well...we know, it's the big R word, how dare you have an opposite opinion.

We get it. You are perfectly fine with the effects of systemic racism.

LOL, I'm black, successful and self made. You proved my point and brought out the old "R" word just as predicted. Funny thing is I bet you are white as a ball of cotton, thanks for being a Soldier for my people.

Good thing you are “atoning for your privilege”.

I earned my privilege with hard work, how bout you cotton?

I was given many advantages because of my race and SES. My grandfather went from a poor farming kid to professional after WWII with his GI Bill college degree. He went from shack to middle class neighborhood. All of his kids went to decent colleges and one Ivy. I grew up UMC and had it pretty easy. Parents each received modest inheritance. My well-educated mom taught me to read at an early age and I entered school reading at four. Went to great schools, funded by taxes of expensive homes in our 95% white township. Had multiple summer academic opportunities. I didn’t have to get a job, but I did have a cool internship via family friend. Spoke and wrote like an UMC kid. Great essays on my applications. Little bit of SAT prep. Went to top college & grad school. No loans. Had no problem getting interviews/offers. Etc.

Yes, I’m really freaking privileged. So are my kids. I don’t think I was entitled to attend those schools based on some innate abilities; I was just lucky. I’m ok if my kids don’t get all of the same opportunities. They are already ahead, they will be fine. I would love to see kids who weren’t so lucky get some of those golden opportunities that come so easily to others.

You have a sense of history and display humility. Rare on threads like this where smug Asian trolls are acting stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the Asian parents in this thread, at the end of the day, all your child's hard and admirable work to get into Harvard will be for nought when your child graduates and experiences the cold reality that anti-Asian racism will always trump that Harvard degree. The same white people who are clamouring to dismantle AA and are touting "meritocracy" will also be the ones promoting unqualified white males and females above your over-qualified Asian child. Don't fool yourself into thinking that meritocracy exists in this country. You too will be cast aside when you've served your purpose as tools of conservative white men. The SFAA case is not for you, is for white men.

Uh yes, thats why asians have the highest average incomes of any race. Higher than whites.

So no anti-Asian racism then? Good to know.

That's despite the racism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Pretty soon we'll be back to having child brides, slave plantations and a whole host of enlightened ideas from early America.

What voting rights?
What civil rights?
Women rights?

The long game of conservatism will never be defeated.

Get some meds for your mental illness, I recommend sooner rather than later cause you need them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the Asian parents in this thread, at the end of the day, all your child's hard and admirable work to get into Harvard will be for nought when your child graduates and experiences the cold reality that anti-Asian racism will always trump that Harvard degree. The same white people who are clamouring to dismantle AA and are touting "meritocracy" will also be the ones promoting unqualified white males and females above your over-qualified Asian child. Don't fool yourself into thinking that meritocracy exists in this country. You too will be cast aside when you've served your purpose as tools of conservative white men. The SFAA case is not for you, is for white men.

Asians are already experiencing enough discrimination.
You certainly don't need to warn them about it. The world will never be perfect. It can only progress. I'm not going to be a crybaby and ask for entitlement but keep asking for fair and equal chances.

You are very naive to think that fairness and equality can ever exist in this country. You've swallowed the model immigrant Flavor Aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Seriously? AA isn’t doing any favors by admitting unqualified black applicants into Harvard. What’s the dropout rate of black students in the pre-med track at Harvard? And what is the cost of the insane amount of academic tutoring and other support that Harvard must supply to black admits because they simply don’t have the academic credentials of their peers?

Isn't the hardest thing about Harvard getting in?

Only if you get in fair and square

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Lack of meritocracy will lead to the decline of this country while other countries are becoming more and more competitive

I might have thought this statement would be true up until the last several years. China has been imploding, India has a long way to go development wise, and Europe has a whole host of short-term and long-term problems. Korea's struggles with a high-stakes testing "meritocracy" makes me think we really don't want to go too far that way either.

This thread is getting more than a little sidetracked but I'm interested in what countries the poster views as meritocracies that are becoming more competitive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pretty soon we'll be back to having child brides, slave plantations and a whole host of enlightened ideas from early America.

What voting rights?
What civil rights?
Women rights?

The long game of conservatism will never be defeated.

Get some meds for your mental illness, I recommend sooner rather than later cause you need them.

And here you are engaging with a person you think is mentally ill? Who's the crazy person in this scenario?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the Asian parents in this thread, at the end of the day, all your child's hard and admirable work to get into Harvard will be for nought when your child graduates and experiences the cold reality that anti-Asian racism will always trump that Harvard degree. The same white people who are clamouring to dismantle AA and are touting "meritocracy" will also be the ones promoting unqualified white males and females above your over-qualified Asian child. Don't fool yourself into thinking that meritocracy exists in this country. You too will be cast aside when you've served your purpose as tools of conservative white men. The SFAA case is not for you, is for white men.

Asians are already experiencing enough discrimination.
You certainly don't need to warn them about it. The world will never be perfect. It can only progress. I'm not going to be a crybaby and ask for entitlement but keep asking for fair and equal chances.

You are very naive to think that fairness and equality can ever exist in this country. You've swallowed the model immigrant Flavor Aid.

Being a pessimistic twit is never a good thing. You are very naive to think that fairness and equality doesn't exist in this country. The bubble you live in is restricting the blood flow to your brain. Wake up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:wow this is crazy, you can be the 4th lowest decile aa and still be way above asians. crazy no wonder asians feel discriminated

Standardized tests are culturally biased and we're originally implemented by a racist.

If the index was normalized for tests, this alleged disparity ( SFFA is the source of this massaged data) would be much lower.

Anyways, the SAT / ACT impact will continue to diminish over time.

What are Asians and Whites in common but so much different for Blacks? culturally

What biase are we talking about?

What?

DP.. apparently, SATs are culturally bias, hence Black people score lower on SATs. But since Asian Americans score higher on SATs that must mean that they have more in common with white people.

That's the argument. And yes, it's laughable and ignorant.

Then what is your reason for AA people scoring lower?

Go ahead, say it out loud. I dare you. You know you think it. Have some courage and show everyone what you really think.

And that, right there, ladies and gents, is why colleges have the current policy.

How would anyone other than the kid know why they score lower?

I'll ask you this: how does an admission office who has never met the student give that student a low "personality" score even as the interviewer gave that student a high personality score.

Go ahead, say it out loud. I dare you. You know you think it. Have some courage and show everyone what you really think.

The argument that black kids don't do as well on SATs compared to Asian kids must mean that the SAT is culturally bias is a dumb argument, as if an Asian American is culturally closer to white America than a black kid whose ancestors have probably lived in the US for many generations.

I have no idea why they score lower. I was not making a claim to know. PP made a claim what they knew it wasn't.

You understand that difference, right?

And we are not talking about "the kid" taking the test, which is an absurd reference. We're talking about races of people and a policy designed by colleges to ensure they can get the students they want to build the class they need. These questions of why are gigantic academic and intellectual ones which we may never solve in our lifetime. However, we can ensure those reasons - whatever they are - don't continue to hurt people and stop colleges from building the class they want.

The "build the class they want" argument is the same argument that white people used way back to implement holistic admissions to keep out the Jews. It's basically social engineering in favor of one side over the other.

No it is not the same argument. In any way. One was designed to exclude a certain type of people, and the other is done to ensure one type of person is not excluded. This is so obvious and the fact that you deny it shows your bias

They both are designed to exclude qualified applicants in order to admit less qualified applicants. One is already illegal and the other will be once this decision is released.

No they are not. One is designed to not exclude certain people. I’ll keep saying it if you keep denying it.

Because you seem to think there are infinite seats. Something designed to include one group is also necessarily designed to exclude anyone who is not a member of that group

No I do not think there are infinite seats at Harvard. But I do think there are more places than students nationwide, because there are.

One is designed to not exclude certain people. Not. Exclude.

That argument goes both ways. Those seats are available to URMs as well.

If there is something inherently valuable about the Harvard seats, then people will have views on who "should" get them.

Except one means there will be nearly no balance across those seats, excluding certain races, and the other will have a balance representative to the population. Tell me which is worse - not which is worse for any individual kid who is unlikely to get in anyway, but worse for the college and worse for the country.

Why do you think anything should be balanced against the racial breakdown of the country? I can’t imagine a more infantile and idiotic thought. Shall we mandate that every NFL team be 7% Asian? Or that 2% of artists performing at MSG be jewish? Do you event relaid show stupid you are?

You're too logical! I'd like to see the response to this but of course it won't happen. Victim mentality folks only want to choose the arguments benefitting their position.

Stop it, victim mentality is all the rage. We must all bow to the alter of race and atone for our privilege it's the new law, any other opinion is well...we know, it's the big R word, how dare you have an opposite opinion.

We get it. You are perfectly fine with the effects of systemic racism.

LOL, I'm black, successful and self made. You proved my point and brought out the old "R" word just as predicted. Funny thing is I bet you are white as a ball of cotton, thanks for being a Soldier for my people.

Good thing you are “atoning for your privilege”.

I earned my privilege with hard work, how bout you cotton?

I was given many advantages because of my race and SES. My grandfather went from a poor farming kid to professional after WWII with his GI Bill college degree. He went from shack to middle class neighborhood. All of his kids went to decent colleges and one Ivy. I grew up UMC and had it pretty easy. Parents each received modest inheritance. My well-educated mom taught me to read at an early age and I entered school reading at four. Went to great schools, funded by taxes of expensive homes in our 95% white township. Had multiple summer academic opportunities. I didn’t have to get a job, but I did have a cool internship via family friend. Spoke and wrote like an UMC kid. Great essays on my applications. Little bit of SAT prep. Went to top college & grad school. No loans. Had no problem getting interviews/offers. Etc.

Yes, I’m really freaking privileged. So are my kids. I don’t think I was entitled to attend those schools based on some innate abilities; I was just lucky. I’m ok if my kids don’t get all of the same opportunities. They are already ahead, they will be fine. I would love to see kids who weren’t so lucky get some of those golden opportunities that come so easily to others.

Cool story but not germane to this conversation, it's comical you took the time to write all that cotton.

You asked about my privilege. I got it - in spades - from my race & SES.

I’d like to see kids who aren’t so lucky have access to great opportunities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the Asian parents in this thread, at the end of the day, all your child's hard and admirable work to get into Harvard will be for nought when your child graduates and experiences the cold reality that anti-Asian racism will always trump that Harvard degree. The same white people who are clamouring to dismantle AA and are touting "meritocracy" will also be the ones promoting unqualified white males and females above your over-qualified Asian child. Don't fool yourself into thinking that meritocracy exists in this country. You too will be cast aside when you've served your purpose as tools of conservative white men. The SFAA case is not for you, is for white men.

Asians are already experiencing enough discrimination.
You certainly don't need to warn them about it. The world will never be perfect. It can only progress. I'm not going to be a crybaby and ask for entitlement but keep asking for fair and equal chances.

You are very naive to think that fairness and equality can ever exist in this country. You've swallowed the model immigrant Flavor Aid.

Have you even ever been to other countries?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pretty soon we'll be back to having child brides, slave plantations and a whole host of enlightened ideas from early America.

What voting rights?
What civil rights?
Women rights?

The long game of conservatism will never be defeated.

Get some meds for your mental illness, I recommend sooner rather than later cause you need them.

And here you are engaging with a person you think is mentally ill? Who's the crazy person in this scenario?

And here you are engaging with a person you think is engaging with a mentally ill person and thus mentally ill? Who's the crazy person in this scenario?

[Anonymous]

Racism is an ugly thing and can be seen pretty quickly on this board. As an American, I had mostly thought of racism as involving white culprits; however, over the last 10 years in tech, I've seen it overtly far more frequently within and between different Asian groups.

We need to stop Asian hate in the US but also need to help ensure non-white groups don't also perpetuate and spread racist views.

[Anonymous]

As an immigrant/expatriate/traveller, i've not found a better place to live. I had several options but every single time I picked coming here.

Locals tend to take it for granted because they were just born here unlike ones you make a conscious choice as adults.