Gaza War, Part 3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile, 100 more Gazans were killed yesterday and bombing has intensified. Biden has admitted that his line in the sand (that there be a plan to protect civilians) has been crossed. Why can’t the US pull their aid or vote yes in the U.N. to demand a ceasefire?

Is this a ceasefire for Hamas too or cool if they keep bombing and raping and holding hostages?

How many war crimes does Israel get to commit for each hostage held?

Just tell me: is this ceasefire you're demanding for both sides or only Israel?

DP

These attempts to distract from Israel’s conduct by obsessing over the rockets feels like negotiating with a serial domestic abuser …

“We can’t talk about me stopping viciously beating you within inches of your life every day unless you also agree to stop using cumin in the chili, which you know I don’t like. BOTH of us have to make changes, OK?”

Is that a no - only Israel has to do a ceasefire, not Hamas?

No, a cease fire - by definition - involves all parties. Zionists demanding that others follow “the rules” of anything just makes me laugh aloud at the hypocrisy.

Now you're mad that some of us want a ceasefire to apply to both sides of this terrible war?

Nobody is mad at you for wanting a ceasefire. It's just funny to think people who think rules never apply to them, and whose "side" has been afforded a comically massive advantage in this conflict solely by virtue of U.S. interference on their behalf, think that anyone believes them when they cry "But the other side is a threat to us, too. Make them stop and then we'll stop!" ...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile, 100 more Gazans were killed yesterday and bombing has intensified. Biden has admitted that his line in the sand (that there be a plan to protect civilians) has been crossed. Why can’t the US pull their aid or vote yes in the U.N. to demand a ceasefire?

Is this a ceasefire for Hamas too or cool if they keep bombing and raping and holding hostages?

How many war crimes does Israel get to commit for each hostage held?

Just tell me: is this ceasefire you're demanding for both sides or only Israel?

DP

These attempts to distract from Israel’s conduct by obsessing over the rockets feels like negotiating with a serial domestic abuser …

“We can’t talk about me stopping viciously beating you within inches of your life every day unless you also agree to stop using cumin in the chili, which you know I don’t like. BOTH of us have to make changes, OK?”

Is that a no - only Israel has to do a ceasefire, not Hamas?

Exactly. If someone is still firing then it's not a ceasefire. Hamas needs to stop firing rockets if they want a ceasefire. It's astounding that some dope upthread thinks that's not necessary for a ceasefire or that it's a "distraction."

No one said any of that. That's just more of your PR framing. Ceasefire means ceasefire and obviously applies to everyone

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile, 100 more Gazans were killed yesterday and bombing has intensified. Biden has admitted that his line in the sand (that there be a plan to protect civilians) has been crossed. Why can’t the US pull their aid or vote yes in the U.N. to demand a ceasefire?

Is this a ceasefire for Hamas too or cool if they keep bombing and raping and holding hostages?

How many war crimes does Israel get to commit for each hostage held?

Just tell me: is this ceasefire you're demanding for both sides or only Israel?

DP

These attempts to distract from Israel’s conduct by obsessing over the rockets feels like negotiating with a serial domestic abuser …

“We can’t talk about me stopping viciously beating you within inches of your life every day unless you also agree to stop using cumin in the chili, which you know I don’t like. BOTH of us have to make changes, OK?”

Is that a no - only Israel has to do a ceasefire, not Hamas?

No, a cease fire - by definition - involves all parties. Zionists demanding that others follow “the rules” of anything just makes me laugh aloud at the hypocrisy.

Now you're mad that some of us want a ceasefire to apply to both sides of this terrible war?

Nobody is mad at you for wanting a ceasefire. It's just funny to think people who think rules never apply to them, and whose "side" has been afforded a comically massive advantage in this conflict solely by virtue of U.S. interference on their behalf, think that anyone believes them when they cry "But the other side is a threat to us, too. Make them stop and then we'll stop!" ...

You think we think rules don't apply to us, but also that only our side is bound by a ceasefire?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile, 100 more Gazans were killed yesterday and bombing has intensified. Biden has admitted that his line in the sand (that there be a plan to protect civilians) has been crossed. Why can’t the US pull their aid or vote yes in the U.N. to demand a ceasefire?

Is this a ceasefire for Hamas too or cool if they keep bombing and raping and holding hostages?

How many war crimes does Israel get to commit for each hostage held?

Just tell me: is this ceasefire you're demanding for both sides or only Israel?

DP

These attempts to distract from Israel’s conduct by obsessing over the rockets feels like negotiating with a serial domestic abuser …

“We can’t talk about me stopping viciously beating you within inches of your life every day unless you also agree to stop using cumin in the chili, which you know I don’t like. BOTH of us have to make changes, OK?”

Is that a no - only Israel has to do a ceasefire, not Hamas?

No, a cease fire - by definition - involves all parties. Zionists demanding that others follow “the rules” of anything just makes me laugh aloud at the hypocrisy.

Now you're mad that some of us want a ceasefire to apply to both sides of this terrible war?

Nobody is mad at you for wanting a ceasefire. It's just funny to think people who think rules never apply to them, and whose "side" has been afforded a comically massive advantage in this conflict solely by virtue of U.S. interference on their behalf, think that anyone believes them when they cry "But the other side is a threat to us, too. Make them stop and then we'll stop!" ...

You think we think rules don't apply to us, but also that only our side is bound by a ceasefire?

I don't know who "we" is but Israel does not seem to think that international law applies to them. See starvation as a political strategy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

They don't actually want a ceasefire, they want all the "occupier colonizers" to leave or be killed. They fully support rockets still being fired at Israel.

People mention 10/7, but not the rockets that were being fired regularly before that. Will a ceasefire include no rocket fire? Or is it only Israel that must stand down?

It's almost as if the illegal immigrants to the Levant have been the peace-loving, freedom-loving good guys they have been selling us on all these years! Look guys, the only bad acts in the region in the past 100 years were these desperation Hail Mary rockets (really crude pipe bombs with limited to no aerial capacity) from the natives! The immigrants have been minding their own business, definitely not working through a 100+ year plan to dispossess others of their land.

One vote for not including rockets in ceasefire.

No, actually. It's a vote for including them in a ceasefire. It's that I simply won't abide by some Zionist trying to change the subject and convince others that those rockets make it onto the list of the Top 200 things wrong with the conditions in the region right now. The intention behind the rockets is evil born of desperation. They cause some level of inconvenience. From time-to-time, they pose a danger. But 99.9% of the time, they are benign.

Therefore, my attention is squarely on the evil that isn't born of desperation, that is vicious and unrelenting, and that poses a danger 24/7 to Palestinians, and in the big picture, to Israelis, too. 100.0% of the time, those issues are malignant and far from benign. The rockets can be part of any solution, but they aren't front and center by a long shot.

The rockets are *not* benign. Remember, it was one of these rockets that crashed outside a hospital and was immidately assessed to have been a "US-supplied JDAM" and it was claimed the hospital was completely leveled and 400 people killed by it. So if Hamas themselves claim they are big dangerous things then that is what they are. And Hamas has been launching these by the thousands at Israel, for years. Were it not for the Iron Dome, there would probably be tens of thousands of Israeli casualties as a result. Just because the rockets are shot down before they can strike homes, supermarkets, schools, theaters, etc does not make them "benign." And shame on you for trying to downplay and gaslight about the rockets. Any ceasefire needs to include a cessation of rockets too.

+1. How dare you say they are benign - have you ever lived somewhere where rockets are being fired? My family lived briefly in Israel during a Hamas rocket campaign and my child still has some PTSD sequelae from it. You are writing safely from your home in Chevy Chase - imagine you are walking down Connecticut Ave going to the CVS and loud sirens go off - you scramble to find the nearest bomb shelter with other panicked people. While in there, you can hear very loud concussions that sound close and you hope it’s the Iron Dome hitting the rockets in the air but can’t tell. The concussions are so strong that you feel the vibration inside your chest, the same as the impact of a bomb hitting something on the ground would feel. You regret not carrying food and water on your trip to the CVS and maybe a bag or something for your small child, who is very quiet and just shaking but not talking, to go to the bathroom in. This will happen to you several more times in the next few days, mostly at night, and you will be startled awake in your Chevy Chase bed by sirens and have 90 seconds to round up your family and get to a shelter. Your child starts flinching at any loud noise and is asking a lot of anxious questions. You have to lie with him for hours to get him to go to sleep at night. You hear that a house in Rockville was destroyed when a rocket got through the Iron Dome. Could have just as easily been in Chevy Chase - in fact, it flew over Chevy Chase to get there. In the daytime, a rocket lands near your child’s school, and the school decides to shut down for the next few days at least.

Hamas has fired 3000 rockets in the past two days. Each Iron Dome action against one rocket costs $500k so not every rocket is shot down, and also some are missed. They are allowed to fall on farms in upper Montgomery County since they’re less likely to hit people there, and the farm where your child planted a tree and went fruit picking on a school field trip is destroyed. A child is killed inside a bomb shelter when a rocket hits the door at a weird angle. Your bomb shelter starts feeling less safe.

The US (since you’re in the US in this story) launches a directed attack to try to take out some of the missile launchers to make it stop. One of the missile launchers is mounted on top of an apartment building and they call every home in that building to warn them beforehand. Guess what the international headlines are the next morning? “US bombs Gaza.” Only buried in the story below, a couple of paragraphs down, is it noted that Hamas has fired 3000 rockets into the US, and the timing (Hamas first) is not even mentioned. When a ceasefire a few days later is broken by Gaza first and then Israel responds, some headlines just generally mention more fighting in the region, and others only reference Israeli aggression. The order of events is not mentioned at all anywhere in the articles. You are frustrated because your experience on the ground is so different from what’s in the media.

These are all our real lived experiences while we were there. I am not a fan of Netanyahu and find the settlements in the West Bank abhorrent. However, not even considering October 7th, it’s not ok to stand by and allow your neighbor to shoot rockets at you, and no one should expect this.

Oh, your lived experience, okay.

Quick question: where would you choose to live? In Israel, as a Jew, under the Iron Dome, or in the West Bank, as a Palestinian, under the IDF and settler oppression? Where do you think your child will be safer?

Okay.

This is whataboutism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile, 100 more Gazans were killed yesterday and bombing has intensified. Biden has admitted that his line in the sand (that there be a plan to protect civilians) has been crossed. Why can’t the US pull their aid or vote yes in the U.N. to demand a ceasefire?

Is this a ceasefire for Hamas too or cool if they keep bombing and raping and holding hostages?

How many war crimes does Israel get to commit for each hostage held?

Just tell me: is this ceasefire you're demanding for both sides or only Israel?

DP

These attempts to distract from Israel’s conduct by obsessing over the rockets feels like negotiating with a serial domestic abuser …

“We can’t talk about me stopping viciously beating you within inches of your life every day unless you also agree to stop using cumin in the chili, which you know I don’t like. BOTH of us have to make changes, OK?”

Is that a no - only Israel has to do a ceasefire, not Hamas?

No, a cease fire - by definition - involves all parties. Zionists demanding that others follow “the rules” of anything just makes me laugh aloud at the hypocrisy.

Now you're mad that some of us want a ceasefire to apply to both sides of this terrible war?

Nobody is mad at you for wanting a ceasefire. It's just funny to think people who think rules never apply to them, and whose "side" has been afforded a comically massive advantage in this conflict solely by virtue of U.S. interference on their behalf, think that anyone believes them when they cry "But the other side is a threat to us, too. Make them stop and then we'll stop!" ...

You think we think rules don't apply to us, but also that only our side is bound by a ceasefire?

What else would one think when dealing with delusional people who believe they were chosen by god?

[Anonymous]

Everyone’s an expert.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile, 100 more Gazans were killed yesterday and bombing has intensified. Biden has admitted that his line in the sand (that there be a plan to protect civilians) has been crossed. Why can’t the US pull their aid or vote yes in the U.N. to demand a ceasefire?

Is this a ceasefire for Hamas too or cool if they keep bombing and raping and holding hostages?

How many war crimes does Israel get to commit for each hostage held?

Just tell me: is this ceasefire you're demanding for both sides or only Israel?

DP

These attempts to distract from Israel’s conduct by obsessing over the rockets feels like negotiating with a serial domestic abuser …

“We can’t talk about me stopping viciously beating you within inches of your life every day unless you also agree to stop using cumin in the chili, which you know I don’t like. BOTH of us have to make changes, OK?”

Is that a no - only Israel has to do a ceasefire, not Hamas?

No, a cease fire - by definition - involves all parties. Zionists demanding that others follow “the rules” of anything just makes me laugh aloud at the hypocrisy.

Now you're mad that some of us want a ceasefire to apply to both sides of this terrible war?

Nobody is mad at you for wanting a ceasefire. It's just funny to think people who think rules never apply to them, and whose "side" has been afforded a comically massive advantage in this conflict solely by virtue of U.S. interference on their behalf, think that anyone believes them when they cry "But the other side is a threat to us, too. Make them stop and then we'll stop!" ...

You think we think rules don't apply to us, but also that only our side is bound by a ceasefire?

What else would one think when dealing with delusional people who believe they were chosen by god?

Heh the Hamas supporters here calling anyone else delusional is riiich

We could move this to the religion forum where we debate whose religion is weirder when looked at from the outside... As a Jew living among Christians - I welcome that conversation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile, 100 more Gazans were killed yesterday and bombing has intensified. Biden has admitted that his line in the sand (that there be a plan to protect civilians) has been crossed. Why can’t the US pull their aid or vote yes in the U.N. to demand a ceasefire?

Is this a ceasefire for Hamas too or cool if they keep bombing and raping and holding hostages?

How many war crimes does Israel get to commit for each hostage held?

Just tell me: is this ceasefire you're demanding for both sides or only Israel?

DP

These attempts to distract from Israel’s conduct by obsessing over the rockets feels like negotiating with a serial domestic abuser …

“We can’t talk about me stopping viciously beating you within inches of your life every day unless you also agree to stop using cumin in the chili, which you know I don’t like. BOTH of us have to make changes, OK?”

Is that a no - only Israel has to do a ceasefire, not Hamas?

No, a cease fire - by definition - involves all parties. Zionists demanding that others follow “the rules” of anything just makes me laugh aloud at the hypocrisy.

Now you're mad that some of us want a ceasefire to apply to both sides of this terrible war?

Nobody is mad at you for wanting a ceasefire. It's just funny to think people who think rules never apply to them, and whose "side" has been afforded a comically massive advantage in this conflict solely by virtue of U.S. interference on their behalf, think that anyone believes them when they cry "But the other side is a threat to us, too. Make them stop and then we'll stop!" ...

You think we think rules don't apply to us, but also that only our side is bound by a ceasefire?

What else would one think when dealing with delusional people who believe they were chosen by god?

Heh the Hamas supporters here calling anyone else delusional is riiich

We could move this to the religion forum where we debate whose religion is weirder when looked at from the outside... As a Jew living among Christians - I welcome that conversation.

Yeah, that sounds great and all, but here's the rub: As a Jewish person who is unconditionally supportive of Israel, your primary directive is to do anything and everything possible to maintain the status quo and quell debate over Israel's sins.

You want this thread to die - yesterday! You want to change the subject, toss a monkey wrench into actual debate with "whataboutism!", propagate the evergreen Israeli propaganda, and otherwise impede the exchange of information that may change opinions. The status quo is your backstop position, albeit one that is VERY comfortable. And even though you want more (power, land, resources, control over others), you have historically found that you can at least shut down debate and enable Israel to continue doing what Israel does: leeching off the U.S., gradually stealing the land of its neighbors, and persistently provoking those same neighbors to facilitate the ... that's right, the status quo!

The status quo, where the U.S. provides welfare and shields Israel from accountability at the U.N.

So sure, moving the conversation to another topic would be GREAT for you. One less voice like mine to highlight Israel's sins.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile, 100 more Gazans were killed yesterday and bombing has intensified. Biden has admitted that his line in the sand (that there be a plan to protect civilians) has been crossed. Why can’t the US pull their aid or vote yes in the U.N. to demand a ceasefire?

Is this a ceasefire for Hamas too or cool if they keep bombing and raping and holding hostages?

How many war crimes does Israel get to commit for each hostage held?

Just tell me: is this ceasefire you're demanding for both sides or only Israel?

DP

These attempts to distract from Israel’s conduct by obsessing over the rockets feels like negotiating with a serial domestic abuser …

“We can’t talk about me stopping viciously beating you within inches of your life every day unless you also agree to stop using cumin in the chili, which you know I don’t like. BOTH of us have to make changes, OK?”

Is that a no - only Israel has to do a ceasefire, not Hamas?

No, a cease fire - by definition - involves all parties. Zionists demanding that others follow “the rules” of anything just makes me laugh aloud at the hypocrisy.

Now you're mad that some of us want a ceasefire to apply to both sides of this terrible war?

Nobody is mad at you for wanting a ceasefire. It's just funny to think people who think rules never apply to them, and whose "side" has been afforded a comically massive advantage in this conflict solely by virtue of U.S. interference on their behalf, think that anyone believes them when they cry "But the other side is a threat to us, too. Make them stop and then we'll stop!" ...

You think we think rules don't apply to us, but also that only our side is bound by a ceasefire?

What else would one think when dealing with delusional people who believe they were chosen by god?

Heh the Hamas supporters here calling anyone else delusional is riiich

We could move this to the religion forum where we debate whose religion is weirder when looked at from the outside... As a Jew living among Christians - I welcome that conversation.

Yeah, that sounds great and all, but here's the rub: As a Jewish person who is unconditionally supportive of Israel, your primary directive is to do anything and everything possible to maintain the status quo and quell debate over Israel's sins.

You want this thread to die - yesterday! You want to change the subject, toss a monkey wrench into actual debate with "whataboutism!", propagate the evergreen Israeli propaganda, and otherwise impede the exchange of information that may change opinions. The status quo is your backstop position, albeit one that is VERY comfortable. And even though you want more (power, land, resources, control over others), you have historically found that you can at least shut down debate and enable Israel to continue doing what Israel does: leeching off the U.S., gradually stealing the land of its neighbors, and persistently provoking those same neighbors to facilitate the ... that's right, the status quo!

The status quo, where the U.S. provides welfare and shields Israel from accountability at the U.N.

So sure, moving the conversation to another topic would be GREAT for you. One less voice like mine to highlight Israel's sins.

Except I am not unconditionally supportive of Israel. And you'll find most American Jews - if you bothered asking with any integrity - would tell you the same. In fact we have a very uneasy and complicated relationship with Israel - and are deeply critical of much of what it does and is doing, and its leadership.

It's just we also think Israel does have a right to exist, and it doesn't have to be blameless to have a right to exist.

You are too busy justifying 10/7 and "by any means necessary" to ever, ever think with any nuance. It's pretty bad,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile, 100 more Gazans were killed yesterday and bombing has intensified. Biden has admitted that his line in the sand (that there be a plan to protect civilians) has been crossed. Why can’t the US pull their aid or vote yes in the U.N. to demand a ceasefire?

Is this a ceasefire for Hamas too or cool if they keep bombing and raping and holding hostages?

How many war crimes does Israel get to commit for each hostage held?

Just tell me: is this ceasefire you're demanding for both sides or only Israel?

DP

These attempts to distract from Israel’s conduct by obsessing over the rockets feels like negotiating with a serial domestic abuser …

“We can’t talk about me stopping viciously beating you within inches of your life every day unless you also agree to stop using cumin in the chili, which you know I don’t like. BOTH of us have to make changes, OK?”

Is that a no - only Israel has to do a ceasefire, not Hamas?

No, a cease fire - by definition - involves all parties. Zionists demanding that others follow “the rules” of anything just makes me laugh aloud at the hypocrisy.

Now you're mad that some of us want a ceasefire to apply to both sides of this terrible war?

Nobody is mad at you for wanting a ceasefire. It's just funny to think people who think rules never apply to them, and whose "side" has been afforded a comically massive advantage in this conflict solely by virtue of U.S. interference on their behalf, think that anyone believes them when they cry "But the other side is a threat to us, too. Make them stop and then we'll stop!" ...

You think we think rules don't apply to us, but also that only our side is bound by a ceasefire?

What else would one think when dealing with delusional people who believe they were chosen by god?

Heh the Hamas supporters here calling anyone else delusional is riiich

We could move this to the religion forum where we debate whose religion is weirder when looked at from the outside... As a Jew living among Christians - I welcome that conversation.

Yeah, that sounds great and all, but here's the rub: As a Jewish person who is unconditionally supportive of Israel, your primary directive is to do anything and everything possible to maintain the status quo and quell debate over Israel's sins.

You want this thread to die - yesterday! You want to change the subject, toss a monkey wrench into actual debate with "whataboutism!", propagate the evergreen Israeli propaganda, and otherwise impede the exchange of information that may change opinions. The status quo is your backstop position, albeit one that is VERY comfortable. And even though you want more (power, land, resources, control over others), you have historically found that you can at least shut down debate and enable Israel to continue doing what Israel does: leeching off the U.S., gradually stealing the land of its neighbors, and persistently provoking those same neighbors to facilitate the ... that's right, the status quo!

The status quo, where the U.S. provides welfare and shields Israel from accountability at the U.N.

So sure, moving the conversation to another topic would be GREAT for you. One less voice like mine to highlight Israel's sins.

Except I am not unconditionally supportive of Israel. And you'll find most American Jews - if you bothered asking with any integrity - would tell you the same. In fact we have a very uneasy and complicated relationship with Israel - and are deeply critical of much of what it does and is doing, and its leadership.

It's just we also think Israel does have a right to exist, and it doesn't have to be blameless to have a right to exist.

You are too busy justifying 10/7 and "by any means necessary" to ever, ever think with any nuance. It's pretty bad,

I also think Israel SHOULD exist. No country has a RIGHT to exist, but Israel exists. I would have preferred that worldwide Jewry would have been welcome and safe to live ANYWHERE rather than create a Jewish homeland, but that's just my view.

I don't want or need to justify 10/7. The atrocity of what Hamas did on 10/7 doesn't absolve the atrocities of what Israel has done for decades. There CAN be two bad actors in this analysis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile, 100 more Gazans were killed yesterday and bombing has intensified. Biden has admitted that his line in the sand (that there be a plan to protect civilians) has been crossed. Why can’t the US pull their aid or vote yes in the U.N. to demand a ceasefire?

Is this a ceasefire for Hamas too or cool if they keep bombing and raping and holding hostages?

How many war crimes does Israel get to commit for each hostage held?

Just tell me: is this ceasefire you're demanding for both sides or only Israel?

DP

These attempts to distract from Israel’s conduct by obsessing over the rockets feels like negotiating with a serial domestic abuser …

“We can’t talk about me stopping viciously beating you within inches of your life every day unless you also agree to stop using cumin in the chili, which you know I don’t like. BOTH of us have to make changes, OK?”

Is that a no - only Israel has to do a ceasefire, not Hamas?

No, a cease fire - by definition - involves all parties. Zionists demanding that others follow “the rules” of anything just makes me laugh aloud at the hypocrisy.

Now you're mad that some of us want a ceasefire to apply to both sides of this terrible war?

Nobody is mad at you for wanting a ceasefire. It's just funny to think people who think rules never apply to them, and whose "side" has been afforded a comically massive advantage in this conflict solely by virtue of U.S. interference on their behalf, think that anyone believes them when they cry "But the other side is a threat to us, too. Make them stop and then we'll stop!" ...

You think we think rules don't apply to us, but also that only our side is bound by a ceasefire?

What else would one think when dealing with delusional people who believe they were chosen by god?

Heh the Hamas supporters here calling anyone else delusional is riiich

We could move this to the religion forum where we debate whose religion is weirder when looked at from the outside... As a Jew living among Christians - I welcome that conversation.

Yeah, that sounds great and all, but here's the rub: As a Jewish person who is unconditionally supportive of Israel, your primary directive is to do anything and everything possible to maintain the status quo and quell debate over Israel's sins.

You want this thread to die - yesterday! You want to change the subject, toss a monkey wrench into actual debate with "whataboutism!", propagate the evergreen Israeli propaganda, and otherwise impede the exchange of information that may change opinions. The status quo is your backstop position, albeit one that is VERY comfortable. And even though you want more (power, land, resources, control over others), you have historically found that you can at least shut down debate and enable Israel to continue doing what Israel does: leeching off the U.S., gradually stealing the land of its neighbors, and persistently provoking those same neighbors to facilitate the ... that's right, the status quo!

The status quo, where the U.S. provides welfare and shields Israel from accountability at the U.N.

So sure, moving the conversation to another topic would be GREAT for you. One less voice like mine to highlight Israel's sins.

Except I am not unconditionally supportive of Israel. And you'll find most American Jews - if you bothered asking with any integrity - would tell you the same. In fact we have a very uneasy and complicated relationship with Israel - and are deeply critical of much of what it does and is doing, and its leadership.

It's just we also think Israel does have a right to exist, and it doesn't have to be blameless to have a right to exist.

You are too busy justifying 10/7 and "by any means necessary" to ever, ever think with any nuance. It's pretty bad,

I also think Israel SHOULD exist. No country has a RIGHT to exist, but Israel exists. I would have preferred that worldwide Jewry would have been welcome and safe to live ANYWHERE rather than create a Jewish homeland, but that's just my view.

I don't want or need to justify 10/7. The atrocity of what Hamas did on 10/7 doesn't absolve the atrocities of what Israel has done for decades. There CAN be two bad actors in this analysis.

This is a good point. There are two bad actors in this play. Two groups of terrorists. They are practically twins so why are we pretending otherwise

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile, 100 more Gazans were killed yesterday and bombing has intensified. Biden has admitted that his line in the sand (that there be a plan to protect civilians) has been crossed. Why can’t the US pull their aid or vote yes in the U.N. to demand a ceasefire?

Is this a ceasefire for Hamas too or cool if they keep bombing and raping and holding hostages?

How many war crimes does Israel get to commit for each hostage held?

Just tell me: is this ceasefire you're demanding for both sides or only Israel?

DP

These attempts to distract from Israel’s conduct by obsessing over the rockets feels like negotiating with a serial domestic abuser …

“We can’t talk about me stopping viciously beating you within inches of your life every day unless you also agree to stop using cumin in the chili, which you know I don’t like. BOTH of us have to make changes, OK?”

Is that a no - only Israel has to do a ceasefire, not Hamas?

No, a cease fire - by definition - involves all parties. Zionists demanding that others follow “the rules” of anything just makes me laugh aloud at the hypocrisy.

Now you're mad that some of us want a ceasefire to apply to both sides of this terrible war?

Nobody is mad at you for wanting a ceasefire. It's just funny to think people who think rules never apply to them, and whose "side" has been afforded a comically massive advantage in this conflict solely by virtue of U.S. interference on their behalf, think that anyone believes them when they cry "But the other side is a threat to us, too. Make them stop and then we'll stop!" ...

You think we think rules don't apply to us, but also that only our side is bound by a ceasefire?

What else would one think when dealing with delusional people who believe they were chosen by god?

Heh the Hamas supporters here calling anyone else delusional is riiich

We could move this to the religion forum where we debate whose religion is weirder when looked at from the outside... As a Jew living among Christians - I welcome that conversation.

Yeah, that sounds great and all, but here's the rub: As a Jewish person who is unconditionally supportive of Israel, your primary directive is to do anything and everything possible to maintain the status quo and quell debate over Israel's sins.

You want this thread to die - yesterday! You want to change the subject, toss a monkey wrench into actual debate with "whataboutism!", propagate the evergreen Israeli propaganda, and otherwise impede the exchange of information that may change opinions. The status quo is your backstop position, albeit one that is VERY comfortable. And even though you want more (power, land, resources, control over others), you have historically found that you can at least shut down debate and enable Israel to continue doing what Israel does: leeching off the U.S., gradually stealing the land of its neighbors, and persistently provoking those same neighbors to facilitate the ... that's right, the status quo!

The status quo, where the U.S. provides welfare and shields Israel from accountability at the U.N.

So sure, moving the conversation to another topic would be GREAT for you. One less voice like mine to highlight Israel's sins.

Except I am not unconditionally supportive of Israel. And you'll find most American Jews - if you bothered asking with any integrity - would tell you the same. In fact we have a very uneasy and complicated relationship with Israel - and are deeply critical of much of what it does and is doing, and its leadership.

It's just we also think Israel does have a right to exist, and it doesn't have to be blameless to have a right to exist.

You are too busy justifying 10/7 and "by any means necessary" to ever, ever think with any nuance. It's pretty bad,

I also think Israel SHOULD exist. No country has a RIGHT to exist, but Israel exists. I would have preferred that worldwide Jewry would have been welcome and safe to live ANYWHERE rather than create a Jewish homeland, but that's just my view.

I don't want or need to justify 10/7. The atrocity of what Hamas did on 10/7 doesn't absolve the atrocities of what Israel has done for decades. There CAN be two bad actors in this analysis.

This is a good point. There are two bad actors in this play. Two groups of terrorists. They are practically twins so why are we pretending otherwise

Maybe because one of those bad actors relies upon U.S. welfare to be able to commit their sins?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile, 100 more Gazans were killed yesterday and bombing has intensified. Biden has admitted that his line in the sand (that there be a plan to protect civilians) has been crossed. Why can’t the US pull their aid or vote yes in the U.N. to demand a ceasefire?

Is this a ceasefire for Hamas too or cool if they keep bombing and raping and holding hostages?

How many war crimes does Israel get to commit for each hostage held?

Just tell me: is this ceasefire you're demanding for both sides or only Israel?

DP

These attempts to distract from Israel’s conduct by obsessing over the rockets feels like negotiating with a serial domestic abuser …

“We can’t talk about me stopping viciously beating you within inches of your life every day unless you also agree to stop using cumin in the chili, which you know I don’t like. BOTH of us have to make changes, OK?”

Is that a no - only Israel has to do a ceasefire, not Hamas?

No, a cease fire - by definition - involves all parties. Zionists demanding that others follow “the rules” of anything just makes me laugh aloud at the hypocrisy.

Now you're mad that some of us want a ceasefire to apply to both sides of this terrible war?

Nobody is mad at you for wanting a ceasefire. It's just funny to think people who think rules never apply to them, and whose "side" has been afforded a comically massive advantage in this conflict solely by virtue of U.S. interference on their behalf, think that anyone believes them when they cry "But the other side is a threat to us, too. Make them stop and then we'll stop!" ...

You think we think rules don't apply to us, but also that only our side is bound by a ceasefire?

What else would one think when dealing with delusional people who believe they were chosen by god?

Heh the Hamas supporters here calling anyone else delusional is riiich

We could move this to the religion forum where we debate whose religion is weirder when looked at from the outside... As a Jew living among Christians - I welcome that conversation.

Yeah, that sounds great and all, but here's the rub: As a Jewish person who is unconditionally supportive of Israel, your primary directive is to do anything and everything possible to maintain the status quo and quell debate over Israel's sins.

You want this thread to die - yesterday! You want to change the subject, toss a monkey wrench into actual debate with "whataboutism!", propagate the evergreen Israeli propaganda, and otherwise impede the exchange of information that may change opinions. The status quo is your backstop position, albeit one that is VERY comfortable. And even though you want more (power, land, resources, control over others), you have historically found that you can at least shut down debate and enable Israel to continue doing what Israel does: leeching off the U.S., gradually stealing the land of its neighbors, and persistently provoking those same neighbors to facilitate the ... that's right, the status quo!

The status quo, where the U.S. provides welfare and shields Israel from accountability at the U.N.

So sure, moving the conversation to another topic would be GREAT for you. One less voice like mine to highlight Israel's sins.

Except I am not unconditionally supportive of Israel. And you'll find most American Jews - if you bothered asking with any integrity - would tell you the same. In fact we have a very uneasy and complicated relationship with Israel - and are deeply critical of much of what it does and is doing, and its leadership.

It's just we also think Israel does have a right to exist, and it doesn't have to be blameless to have a right to exist.

You are too busy justifying 10/7 and "by any means necessary" to ever, ever think with any nuance. It's pretty bad,

I also think Israel SHOULD exist. No country has a RIGHT to exist, but Israel exists. I would have preferred that worldwide Jewry would have been welcome and safe to live ANYWHERE rather than create a Jewish homeland, but that's just my view.

I don't want or need to justify 10/7. The atrocity of what Hamas did on 10/7 doesn't absolve the atrocities of what Israel has done for decades. There CAN be two bad actors in this analysis.

This is a good point. There are two bad actors in this play. Two groups of terrorists. They are practically twins so why are we pretending otherwise

Maybe because one of those bad actors relies upon U.S. welfare to be able to commit their sins?

Relies is a strong word. US sends lots of money to Gaza and West Bank, some thru UN, but I wouldn't say Hamas is relying on the aid to attack Israel.
They are relying on aid from Iran.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile, 100 more Gazans were killed yesterday and bombing has intensified. Biden has admitted that his line in the sand (that there be a plan to protect civilians) has been crossed. Why can’t the US pull their aid or vote yes in the U.N. to demand a ceasefire?

Is this a ceasefire for Hamas too or cool if they keep bombing and raping and holding hostages?

How many war crimes does Israel get to commit for each hostage held?

Just tell me: is this ceasefire you're demanding for both sides or only Israel?

DP

These attempts to distract from Israel’s conduct by obsessing over the rockets feels like negotiating with a serial domestic abuser …

“We can’t talk about me stopping viciously beating you within inches of your life every day unless you also agree to stop using cumin in the chili, which you know I don’t like. BOTH of us have to make changes, OK?”

Is that a no - only Israel has to do a ceasefire, not Hamas?

No, a cease fire - by definition - involves all parties. Zionists demanding that others follow “the rules” of anything just makes me laugh aloud at the hypocrisy.

Now you're mad that some of us want a ceasefire to apply to both sides of this terrible war?

Nobody is mad at you for wanting a ceasefire. It's just funny to think people who think rules never apply to them, and whose "side" has been afforded a comically massive advantage in this conflict solely by virtue of U.S. interference on their behalf, think that anyone believes them when they cry "But the other side is a threat to us, too. Make them stop and then we'll stop!" ...

You think we think rules don't apply to us, but also that only our side is bound by a ceasefire?

What else would one think when dealing with delusional people who believe they were chosen by god?

Heh the Hamas supporters here calling anyone else delusional is riiich

We could move this to the religion forum where we debate whose religion is weirder when looked at from the outside... As a Jew living among Christians - I welcome that conversation.

Yeah, that sounds great and all, but here's the rub: As a Jewish person who is unconditionally supportive of Israel, your primary directive is to do anything and everything possible to maintain the status quo and quell debate over Israel's sins.

You want this thread to die - yesterday! You want to change the subject, toss a monkey wrench into actual debate with "whataboutism!", propagate the evergreen Israeli propaganda, and otherwise impede the exchange of information that may change opinions. The status quo is your backstop position, albeit one that is VERY comfortable. And even though you want more (power, land, resources, control over others), you have historically found that you can at least shut down debate and enable Israel to continue doing what Israel does: leeching off the U.S., gradually stealing the land of its neighbors, and persistently provoking those same neighbors to facilitate the ... that's right, the status quo!

The status quo, where the U.S. provides welfare and shields Israel from accountability at the U.N.

So sure, moving the conversation to another topic would be GREAT for you. One less voice like mine to highlight Israel's sins.

Except I am not unconditionally supportive of Israel. And you'll find most American Jews - if you bothered asking with any integrity - would tell you the same. In fact we have a very uneasy and complicated relationship with Israel - and are deeply critical of much of what it does and is doing, and its leadership.

It's just we also think Israel does have a right to exist, and it doesn't have to be blameless to have a right to exist.

You are too busy justifying 10/7 and "by any means necessary" to ever, ever think with any nuance. It's pretty bad,

I also think Israel SHOULD exist. No country has a RIGHT to exist, but Israel exists. I would have preferred that worldwide Jewry would have been welcome and safe to live ANYWHERE rather than create a Jewish homeland, but that's just my view.

I don't want or need to justify 10/7. The atrocity of what Hamas did on 10/7 doesn't absolve the atrocities of what Israel has done for decades. There CAN be two bad actors in this analysis.

This is a good point. There are two bad actors in this play. Two groups of terrorists. They are practically twins so why are we pretending otherwise

Maybe because one of those bad actors relies upon U.S. welfare to be able to commit their sins?

Relies is a strong word. US sends lots of money to Gaza and West Bank, some thru UN, but I wouldn't say Hamas is relying on the aid to attack Israel.
They are relying on aid from Iran.

Look, we’re not going to see eye to eye on this. There’s absolutely zero equivalency between the role the U.S. plays in enabling Israel’s atrocities and the role we play in supporting what amounts to a large, disaggregated Warsaw Ghetto that Israel has created in Gaza and West Bank.