Gaza War, Part 3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile, 100 more Gazans were killed yesterday and bombing has intensified. Biden has admitted that his line in the sand (that there be a plan to protect civilians) has been crossed. Why can’t the US pull their aid or vote yes in the U.N. to demand a ceasefire?

Is this a ceasefire for Hamas too or cool if they keep bombing and raping and holding hostages?

How many war crimes does Israel get to commit for each hostage held?

Just tell me: is this ceasefire you're demanding for both sides or only Israel?

DP

These attempts to distract from Israel’s conduct by obsessing over the rockets feels like negotiating with a serial domestic abuser …

“We can’t talk about me stopping viciously beating you within inches of your life every day unless you also agree to stop using cumin in the chili, which you know I don’t like. BOTH of us have to make changes, OK?”

Is that a no - only Israel has to do a ceasefire, not Hamas?

No, a cease fire - by definition - involves all parties. Zionists demanding that others follow “the rules” of anything just makes me laugh aloud at the hypocrisy.

Now you're mad that some of us want a ceasefire to apply to both sides of this terrible war?

Nobody is mad at you for wanting a ceasefire. It's just funny to think people who think rules never apply to them, and whose "side" has been afforded a comically massive advantage in this conflict solely by virtue of U.S. interference on their behalf, think that anyone believes them when they cry "But the other side is a threat to us, too. Make them stop and then we'll stop!" ...

You think we think rules don't apply to us, but also that only our side is bound by a ceasefire?

What else would one think when dealing with delusional people who believe they were chosen by god?

Heh the Hamas supporters here calling anyone else delusional is riiich

We could move this to the religion forum where we debate whose religion is weirder when looked at from the outside... As a Jew living among Christians - I welcome that conversation.

Yeah, that sounds great and all, but here's the rub: As a Jewish person who is unconditionally supportive of Israel, your primary directive is to do anything and everything possible to maintain the status quo and quell debate over Israel's sins.

You want this thread to die - yesterday! You want to change the subject, toss a monkey wrench into actual debate with "whataboutism!", propagate the evergreen Israeli propaganda, and otherwise impede the exchange of information that may change opinions. The status quo is your backstop position, albeit one that is VERY comfortable. And even though you want more (power, land, resources, control over others), you have historically found that you can at least shut down debate and enable Israel to continue doing what Israel does: leeching off the U.S., gradually stealing the land of its neighbors, and persistently provoking those same neighbors to facilitate the ... that's right, the status quo!

The status quo, where the U.S. provides welfare and shields Israel from accountability at the U.N.

So sure, moving the conversation to another topic would be GREAT for you. One less voice like mine to highlight Israel's sins.

Except I am not unconditionally supportive of Israel. And you'll find most American Jews - if you bothered asking with any integrity - would tell you the same. In fact we have a very uneasy and complicated relationship with Israel - and are deeply critical of much of what it does and is doing, and its leadership.

It's just we also think Israel does have a right to exist, and it doesn't have to be blameless to have a right to exist.

You are too busy justifying 10/7 and "by any means necessary" to ever, ever think with any nuance. It's pretty bad,

Critical of Israel while you apply for dual citizenship?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile, 100 more Gazans were killed yesterday and bombing has intensified. Biden has admitted that his line in the sand (that there be a plan to protect civilians) has been crossed. Why can’t the US pull their aid or vote yes in the U.N. to demand a ceasefire?

Is this a ceasefire for Hamas too or cool if they keep bombing and raping and holding hostages?

How many war crimes does Israel get to commit for each hostage held?

Just tell me: is this ceasefire you're demanding for both sides or only Israel?

DP

These attempts to distract from Israel’s conduct by obsessing over the rockets feels like negotiating with a serial domestic abuser …

“We can’t talk about me stopping viciously beating you within inches of your life every day unless you also agree to stop using cumin in the chili, which you know I don’t like. BOTH of us have to make changes, OK?”

Is that a no - only Israel has to do a ceasefire, not Hamas?

No, a cease fire - by definition - involves all parties. Zionists demanding that others follow “the rules” of anything just makes me laugh aloud at the hypocrisy.

Now you're mad that some of us want a ceasefire to apply to both sides of this terrible war?

Nobody is mad at you for wanting a ceasefire. It's just funny to think people who think rules never apply to them, and whose "side" has been afforded a comically massive advantage in this conflict solely by virtue of U.S. interference on their behalf, think that anyone believes them when they cry "But the other side is a threat to us, too. Make them stop and then we'll stop!" ...

You think we think rules don't apply to us, but also that only our side is bound by a ceasefire?

What else would one think when dealing with delusional people who believe they were chosen by god?

Heh the Hamas supporters here calling anyone else delusional is riiich

We could move this to the religion forum where we debate whose religion is weirder when looked at from the outside... As a Jew living among Christians - I welcome that conversation.

Yeah, that sounds great and all, but here's the rub: As a Jewish person who is unconditionally supportive of Israel, your primary directive is to do anything and everything possible to maintain the status quo and quell debate over Israel's sins.

You want this thread to die - yesterday! You want to change the subject, toss a monkey wrench into actual debate with "whataboutism!", propagate the evergreen Israeli propaganda, and otherwise impede the exchange of information that may change opinions. The status quo is your backstop position, albeit one that is VERY comfortable. And even though you want more (power, land, resources, control over others), you have historically found that you can at least shut down debate and enable Israel to continue doing what Israel does: leeching off the U.S., gradually stealing the land of its neighbors, and persistently provoking those same neighbors to facilitate the ... that's right, the status quo!

The status quo, where the U.S. provides welfare and shields Israel from accountability at the U.N.

So sure, moving the conversation to another topic would be GREAT for you. One less voice like mine to highlight Israel's sins.

Except I am not unconditionally supportive of Israel. And you'll find most American Jews - if you bothered asking with any integrity - would tell you the same. In fact we have a very uneasy and complicated relationship with Israel - and are deeply critical of much of what it does and is doing, and its leadership.

It's just we also think Israel does have a right to exist, and it doesn't have to be blameless to have a right to exist.

You are too busy justifying 10/7 and "by any means necessary" to ever, ever think with any nuance. It's pretty bad,

I also think Israel SHOULD exist. No country has a RIGHT to exist, but Israel exists. I would have preferred that worldwide Jewry would have been welcome and safe to live ANYWHERE rather than create a Jewish homeland, but that's just my view.

I don't want or need to justify 10/7. The atrocity of what Hamas did on 10/7 doesn't absolve the atrocities of what Israel has done for decades. There CAN be two bad actors in this analysis.

This is a good point. There are two bad actors in this play. Two groups of terrorists. They are practically twins so why are we pretending otherwise

Maybe because one of those bad actors relies upon U.S. welfare to be able to commit their sins?

Relies is a strong word. US sends lots of money to Gaza and West Bank, some thru UN, but I wouldn't say Hamas is relying on the aid to attack Israel.
They are relying on aid from Iran.

Hamas is banned from aid by the U.S. and EU. Unfortunately, Hamas runs a better state than the West Bank which takes the bulk of the US funding .

[Anonymous]

“Israeli forces again open fire on Palestinians waiting for food aid in Gaza City, killing six and wounding at least 83 others, according to media reports. The attack came hours after Israel bombed a United Nations food distribution centre in southern Rafah city, killing at least five people, including a member of the UN agency for Palestinian refugees (UNRWA). The US said Israel needs to ensure safety for humanitarian workers.”

I just don’t understand how we can continue to send $ and weapons to Israel. Yes, what Hamas did on 10/7 was horrific but how is attacking food distribution centers in Gaza make any moral sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile, 100 more Gazans were killed yesterday and bombing has intensified. Biden has admitted that his line in the sand (that there be a plan to protect civilians) has been crossed. Why can’t the US pull their aid or vote yes in the U.N. to demand a ceasefire?

Is this a ceasefire for Hamas too or cool if they keep bombing and raping and holding hostages?

How many war crimes does Israel get to commit for each hostage held?

Just tell me: is this ceasefire you're demanding for both sides or only Israel?

DP

These attempts to distract from Israel’s conduct by obsessing over the rockets feels like negotiating with a serial domestic abuser …

“We can’t talk about me stopping viciously beating you within inches of your life every day unless you also agree to stop using cumin in the chili, which you know I don’t like. BOTH of us have to make changes, OK?”

Is that a no - only Israel has to do a ceasefire, not Hamas?

No, a cease fire - by definition - involves all parties. Zionists demanding that others follow “the rules” of anything just makes me laugh aloud at the hypocrisy.

Now you're mad that some of us want a ceasefire to apply to both sides of this terrible war?

Nobody is mad at you for wanting a ceasefire. It's just funny to think people who think rules never apply to them, and whose "side" has been afforded a comically massive advantage in this conflict solely by virtue of U.S. interference on their behalf, think that anyone believes them when they cry "But the other side is a threat to us, too. Make them stop and then we'll stop!" ...

You think we think rules don't apply to us, but also that only our side is bound by a ceasefire?

What else would one think when dealing with delusional people who believe they were chosen by god?

Heh the Hamas supporters here calling anyone else delusional is riiich

We could move this to the religion forum where we debate whose religion is weirder when looked at from the outside... As a Jew living among Christians - I welcome that conversation.

Yeah, that sounds great and all, but here's the rub: As a Jewish person who is unconditionally supportive of Israel, your primary directive is to do anything and everything possible to maintain the status quo and quell debate over Israel's sins.

You want this thread to die - yesterday! You want to change the subject, toss a monkey wrench into actual debate with "whataboutism!", propagate the evergreen Israeli propaganda, and otherwise impede the exchange of information that may change opinions. The status quo is your backstop position, albeit one that is VERY comfortable. And even though you want more (power, land, resources, control over others), you have historically found that you can at least shut down debate and enable Israel to continue doing what Israel does: leeching off the U.S., gradually stealing the land of its neighbors, and persistently provoking those same neighbors to facilitate the ... that's right, the status quo!

The status quo, where the U.S. provides welfare and shields Israel from accountability at the U.N.

So sure, moving the conversation to another topic would be GREAT for you. One less voice like mine to highlight Israel's sins.

Except I am not unconditionally supportive of Israel. And you'll find most American Jews - if you bothered asking with any integrity - would tell you the same. In fact we have a very uneasy and complicated relationship with Israel - and are deeply critical of much of what it does and is doing, and its leadership.

It's just we also think Israel does have a right to exist, and it doesn't have to be blameless to have a right to exist.

You are too busy justifying 10/7 and "by any means necessary" to ever, ever think with any nuance. It's pretty bad,

NP. I think the bolded is absolutely true among the Jewish Americans I know.

I am not excusing Hamas at all. It forgetting the violence they caused on 10/7 (and on other days).

But my perspective from speaking with the folks I knowis that they are centered on the Jewish experience and story. They cannot seem to think of Palestines as more than bit players in this grand story that is unfolding around Israel. “Does Israel have a right to exist? Israel has a right to defend herself. Bibi is bad in many ways but he has to respond in some way - any country would. Yes, the suffering in Gaza is bad but Hamas has to be contained, etc”. Do you know what is missing? Any thought about the humanity of the Palestinians whose lives are being upended in the best case scenario or eliminated in the worst.

Take a look at the post a few up from yours. There is a story about a person whose cousins were killed in a terrorist attack in Israel. It seems a little “off” to talk about three deaths while ignoring the context of 30K deaths. Of course each life must be mourned individually. Nevertheless, the humanization of one side and the ignoring of the other is common and what I observe.

None of this to say that Hamas is in the right whatsoever. And also not to say that the pro Palestinian posters are not dismissive of harm done to Israelis under th umbrella of “well, what did they expect”?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile, 100 more Gazans were killed yesterday and bombing has intensified. Biden has admitted that his line in the sand (that there be a plan to protect civilians) has been crossed. Why can’t the US pull their aid or vote yes in the U.N. to demand a ceasefire?

Is this a ceasefire for Hamas too or cool if they keep bombing and raping and holding hostages?

How many war crimes does Israel get to commit for each hostage held?

Just tell me: is this ceasefire you're demanding for both sides or only Israel?

DP

These attempts to distract from Israel’s conduct by obsessing over the rockets feels like negotiating with a serial domestic abuser …

“We can’t talk about me stopping viciously beating you within inches of your life every day unless you also agree to stop using cumin in the chili, which you know I don’t like. BOTH of us have to make changes, OK?”

Is that a no - only Israel has to do a ceasefire, not Hamas?

No, a cease fire - by definition - involves all parties. Zionists demanding that others follow “the rules” of anything just makes me laugh aloud at the hypocrisy.

Now you're mad that some of us want a ceasefire to apply to both sides of this terrible war?

Nobody is mad at you for wanting a ceasefire. It's just funny to think people who think rules never apply to them, and whose "side" has been afforded a comically massive advantage in this conflict solely by virtue of U.S. interference on their behalf, think that anyone believes them when they cry "But the other side is a threat to us, too. Make them stop and then we'll stop!" ...

You think we think rules don't apply to us, but also that only our side is bound by a ceasefire?

What else would one think when dealing with delusional people who believe they were chosen by god?

Heh the Hamas supporters here calling anyone else delusional is riiich

We could move this to the religion forum where we debate whose religion is weirder when looked at from the outside... As a Jew living among Christians - I welcome that conversation.

Yeah, that sounds great and all, but here's the rub: As a Jewish person who is unconditionally supportive of Israel, your primary directive is to do anything and everything possible to maintain the status quo and quell debate over Israel's sins.

You want this thread to die - yesterday! You want to change the subject, toss a monkey wrench into actual debate with "whataboutism!", propagate the evergreen Israeli propaganda, and otherwise impede the exchange of information that may change opinions. The status quo is your backstop position, albeit one that is VERY comfortable. And even though you want more (power, land, resources, control over others), you have historically found that you can at least shut down debate and enable Israel to continue doing what Israel does: leeching off the U.S., gradually stealing the land of its neighbors, and persistently provoking those same neighbors to facilitate the ... that's right, the status quo!

The status quo, where the U.S. provides welfare and shields Israel from accountability at the U.N.

So sure, moving the conversation to another topic would be GREAT for you. One less voice like mine to highlight Israel's sins.

Except I am not unconditionally supportive of Israel. And you'll find most American Jews - if you bothered asking with any integrity - would tell you the same. In fact we have a very uneasy and complicated relationship with Israel - and are deeply critical of much of what it does and is doing, and its leadership.

It's just we also think Israel does have a right to exist, and it doesn't have to be blameless to have a right to exist.

You are too busy justifying 10/7 and "by any means necessary" to ever, ever think with any nuance. It's pretty bad,

I also think Israel SHOULD exist. No country has a RIGHT to exist, but Israel exists. I would have preferred that worldwide Jewry would have been welcome and safe to live ANYWHERE rather than create a Jewish homeland, but that's just my view.

I don't want or need to justify 10/7. The atrocity of what Hamas did on 10/7 doesn't absolve the atrocities of what Israel has done for decades. There CAN be two bad actors in this analysis.

This is a good point. There are two bad actors in this play. Two groups of terrorists. They are practically twins so why are we pretending otherwise

Maybe because one of those bad actors relies upon U.S. welfare to be able to commit their sins?

Relies is a strong word. US sends lots of money to Gaza and West Bank, some thru UN, but I wouldn't say Hamas is relying on the aid to attack Israel.
They are relying on aid from Iran.

Hamas is banned from aid by the U.S. and EU. Unfortunately, Hamas runs a better state than the West Bank which takes the bulk of the US funding .

Hamas is a terrorist organization that hides its terrorists in hospitals and so-called safe zones. Their ear crimes put their civilian population at risk. They are not a more successful or better run state. They're extremist terrorists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile, 100 more Gazans were killed yesterday and bombing has intensified. Biden has admitted that his line in the sand (that there be a plan to protect civilians) has been crossed. Why can’t the US pull their aid or vote yes in the U.N. to demand a ceasefire?

Is this a ceasefire for Hamas too or cool if they keep bombing and raping and holding hostages?

How many war crimes does Israel get to commit for each hostage held?

Just tell me: is this ceasefire you're demanding for both sides or only Israel?

DP

These attempts to distract from Israel’s conduct by obsessing over the rockets feels like negotiating with a serial domestic abuser …

“We can’t talk about me stopping viciously beating you within inches of your life every day unless you also agree to stop using cumin in the chili, which you know I don’t like. BOTH of us have to make changes, OK?”

Is that a no - only Israel has to do a ceasefire, not Hamas?

No, a cease fire - by definition - involves all parties. Zionists demanding that others follow “the rules” of anything just makes me laugh aloud at the hypocrisy.

Now you're mad that some of us want a ceasefire to apply to both sides of this terrible war?

Nobody is mad at you for wanting a ceasefire. It's just funny to think people who think rules never apply to them, and whose "side" has been afforded a comically massive advantage in this conflict solely by virtue of U.S. interference on their behalf, think that anyone believes them when they cry "But the other side is a threat to us, too. Make them stop and then we'll stop!" ...

You think we think rules don't apply to us, but also that only our side is bound by a ceasefire?

What else would one think when dealing with delusional people who believe they were chosen by god?

Heh the Hamas supporters here calling anyone else delusional is riiich

We could move this to the religion forum where we debate whose religion is weirder when looked at from the outside... As a Jew living among Christians - I welcome that conversation.

Yeah, that sounds great and all, but here's the rub: As a Jewish person who is unconditionally supportive of Israel, your primary directive is to do anything and everything possible to maintain the status quo and quell debate over Israel's sins.

You want this thread to die - yesterday! You want to change the subject, toss a monkey wrench into actual debate with "whataboutism!", propagate the evergreen Israeli propaganda, and otherwise impede the exchange of information that may change opinions. The status quo is your backstop position, albeit one that is VERY comfortable. And even though you want more (power, land, resources, control over others), you have historically found that you can at least shut down debate and enable Israel to continue doing what Israel does: leeching off the U.S., gradually stealing the land of its neighbors, and persistently provoking those same neighbors to facilitate the ... that's right, the status quo!

The status quo, where the U.S. provides welfare and shields Israel from accountability at the U.N.

So sure, moving the conversation to another topic would be GREAT for you. One less voice like mine to highlight Israel's sins.

Except I am not unconditionally supportive of Israel. And you'll find most American Jews - if you bothered asking with any integrity - would tell you the same. In fact we have a very uneasy and complicated relationship with Israel - and are deeply critical of much of what it does and is doing, and its leadership.

It's just we also think Israel does have a right to exist, and it doesn't have to be blameless to have a right to exist.

You are too busy justifying 10/7 and "by any means necessary" to ever, ever think with any nuance. It's pretty bad,

I also think Israel SHOULD exist. No country has a RIGHT to exist, but Israel exists. I would have preferred that worldwide Jewry would have been welcome and safe to live ANYWHERE rather than create a Jewish homeland, but that's just my view.

I don't want or need to justify 10/7. The atrocity of what Hamas did on 10/7 doesn't absolve the atrocities of what Israel has done for decades. There CAN be two bad actors in this analysis.

This is a good point. There are two bad actors in this play. Two groups of terrorists. They are practically twins so why are we pretending otherwise

Maybe because one of those bad actors relies upon U.S. welfare to be able to commit their sins?

Relies is a strong word. US sends lots of money to Gaza and West Bank, some thru UN, but I wouldn't say Hamas is relying on the aid to attack Israel.
They are relying on aid from Iran.

Hamas is banned from aid by the U.S. and EU. Unfortunately, Hamas runs a better state than the West Bank which takes the bulk of the US funding .

The West Bank is run by Israel….just like Gaza was.

[Anonymous]

South Africa’s Foreign Minister Naledi Pandor has vowed that citizens who fight in the Israel Defense Forces will be arrested upon returning to the country.

“I have already issued a statement alerting those who are South African and who are fighting alongside or in the Israeli Defense Forces. We are ready. When you come home, we’re going to arrest you,” Pandor said on Sunday, at a conference on solidarity with Palestinians in Pretoria.

The comments followed an initial warning in December by South Africa’s Foreign Ministry, which said alleged violations of international law by soldiers in Gaza during the Israel-Hamas war made them “liable for prosecution in South Africa.”

https://www.timesofisrael.com/south-africa-threatens-citizens-fighting-in-idf-with-arrest-if-they-return-home/

The US should do the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

South Africa’s Foreign Minister Naledi Pandor has vowed that citizens who fight in the Israel Defense Forces will be arrested upon returning to the country.

“I have already issued a statement alerting those who are South African and who are fighting alongside or in the Israeli Defense Forces. We are ready. When you come home, we’re going to arrest you,” Pandor said on Sunday, at a conference on solidarity with Palestinians in Pretoria.

The comments followed an initial warning in December by South Africa’s Foreign Ministry, which said alleged violations of international law by soldiers in Gaza during the Israel-Hamas war made them “liable for prosecution in South Africa.”

https://www.timesofisrael.com/south-africa-threatens-citizens-fighting-in-idf-with-arrest-if-they-return-home/

The US should do the same.

Agreed. And after they complete the custodial part of their sentence, the U.S. should revoke their citizenship. Setting aside the fact that these scumbags are complicit in a genocidal war, they want to go fight on behalf of another country? Cool. Emigrate there - now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile, 100 more Gazans were killed yesterday and bombing has intensified. Biden has admitted that his line in the sand (that there be a plan to protect civilians) has been crossed. Why can’t the US pull their aid or vote yes in the U.N. to demand a ceasefire?

Is this a ceasefire for Hamas too or cool if they keep bombing and raping and holding hostages?

How many war crimes does Israel get to commit for each hostage held?

Just tell me: is this ceasefire you're demanding for both sides or only Israel?

DP

These attempts to distract from Israel’s conduct by obsessing over the rockets feels like negotiating with a serial domestic abuser …

“We can’t talk about me stopping viciously beating you within inches of your life every day unless you also agree to stop using cumin in the chili, which you know I don’t like. BOTH of us have to make changes, OK?”

Is that a no - only Israel has to do a ceasefire, not Hamas?

No, a cease fire - by definition - involves all parties. Zionists demanding that others follow “the rules” of anything just makes me laugh aloud at the hypocrisy.

Now you're mad that some of us want a ceasefire to apply to both sides of this terrible war?

Nobody is mad at you for wanting a ceasefire. It's just funny to think people who think rules never apply to them, and whose "side" has been afforded a comically massive advantage in this conflict solely by virtue of U.S. interference on their behalf, think that anyone believes them when they cry "But the other side is a threat to us, too. Make them stop and then we'll stop!" ...

You think we think rules don't apply to us, but also that only our side is bound by a ceasefire?

What else would one think when dealing with delusional people who believe they were chosen by god?

Heh the Hamas supporters here calling anyone else delusional is riiich

We could move this to the religion forum where we debate whose religion is weirder when looked at from the outside... As a Jew living among Christians - I welcome that conversation.

Yeah, that sounds great and all, but here's the rub: As a Jewish person who is unconditionally supportive of Israel, your primary directive is to do anything and everything possible to maintain the status quo and quell debate over Israel's sins.

You want this thread to die - yesterday! You want to change the subject, toss a monkey wrench into actual debate with "whataboutism!", propagate the evergreen Israeli propaganda, and otherwise impede the exchange of information that may change opinions. The status quo is your backstop position, albeit one that is VERY comfortable. And even though you want more (power, land, resources, control over others), you have historically found that you can at least shut down debate and enable Israel to continue doing what Israel does: leeching off the U.S., gradually stealing the land of its neighbors, and persistently provoking those same neighbors to facilitate the ... that's right, the status quo!

The status quo, where the U.S. provides welfare and shields Israel from accountability at the U.N.

So sure, moving the conversation to another topic would be GREAT for you. One less voice like mine to highlight Israel's sins.

Except I am not unconditionally supportive of Israel. And you'll find most American Jews - if you bothered asking with any integrity - would tell you the same. In fact we have a very uneasy and complicated relationship with Israel - and are deeply critical of much of what it does and is doing, and its leadership.

It's just we also think Israel does have a right to exist, and it doesn't have to be blameless to have a right to exist.

You are too busy justifying 10/7 and "by any means necessary" to ever, ever think with any nuance. It's pretty bad,

I also think Israel SHOULD exist. No country has a RIGHT to exist, but Israel exists. I would have preferred that worldwide Jewry would have been welcome and safe to live ANYWHERE rather than create a Jewish homeland, but that's just my view.

I don't want or need to justify 10/7. The atrocity of what Hamas did on 10/7 doesn't absolve the atrocities of what Israel has done for decades. There CAN be two bad actors in this analysis.

This is a good point. There are two bad actors in this play. Two groups of terrorists. They are practically twins so why are we pretending otherwise

Maybe because one of those bad actors relies upon U.S. welfare to be able to commit their sins?

Relies is a strong word. US sends lots of money to Gaza and West Bank, some thru UN, but I wouldn't say Hamas is relying on the aid to attack Israel.
They are relying on aid from Iran.

Hamas is banned from aid by the U.S. and EU. Unfortunately, Hamas runs a better state than the West Bank which takes the bulk of the US funding .

Hamas is a terrorist organization that hides its terrorists in hospitals and so-called safe zones. Their ear crimes put their civilian population at risk. They are not a more successful or better run state. They're extremist terrorists.

AND they are still using UNRWA for cover as well - and UNRWA may still be complicit in Hamas terrorism. New report out says a senior Hamas commander, Muhammad Abu Hasna was killed in a strike on an UNRWA facility in Rafah. Also, the aid being sent to that center was being funneled to Hamas.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/strike-on-unrwa-facility-in-rafah-took-out-hamas-commander-who-stole-aid-says-idf/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile, 100 more Gazans were killed yesterday and bombing has intensified. Biden has admitted that his line in the sand (that there be a plan to protect civilians) has been crossed. Why can’t the US pull their aid or vote yes in the U.N. to demand a ceasefire?

Is this a ceasefire for Hamas too or cool if they keep bombing and raping and holding hostages?

How many war crimes does Israel get to commit for each hostage held?

Just tell me: is this ceasefire you're demanding for both sides or only Israel?

DP

These attempts to distract from Israel’s conduct by obsessing over the rockets feels like negotiating with a serial domestic abuser …

“We can’t talk about me stopping viciously beating you within inches of your life every day unless you also agree to stop using cumin in the chili, which you know I don’t like. BOTH of us have to make changes, OK?”

Is that a no - only Israel has to do a ceasefire, not Hamas?

No, a cease fire - by definition - involves all parties. Zionists demanding that others follow “the rules” of anything just makes me laugh aloud at the hypocrisy.

Now you're mad that some of us want a ceasefire to apply to both sides of this terrible war?

Nobody is mad at you for wanting a ceasefire. It's just funny to think people who think rules never apply to them, and whose "side" has been afforded a comically massive advantage in this conflict solely by virtue of U.S. interference on their behalf, think that anyone believes them when they cry "But the other side is a threat to us, too. Make them stop and then we'll stop!" ...

You think we think rules don't apply to us, but also that only our side is bound by a ceasefire?

What else would one think when dealing with delusional people who believe they were chosen by god?

Heh the Hamas supporters here calling anyone else delusional is riiich

We could move this to the religion forum where we debate whose religion is weirder when looked at from the outside... As a Jew living among Christians - I welcome that conversation.

Yeah, that sounds great and all, but here's the rub: As a Jewish person who is unconditionally supportive of Israel, your primary directive is to do anything and everything possible to maintain the status quo and quell debate over Israel's sins.

You want this thread to die - yesterday! You want to change the subject, toss a monkey wrench into actual debate with "whataboutism!", propagate the evergreen Israeli propaganda, and otherwise impede the exchange of information that may change opinions. The status quo is your backstop position, albeit one that is VERY comfortable. And even though you want more (power, land, resources, control over others), you have historically found that you can at least shut down debate and enable Israel to continue doing what Israel does: leeching off the U.S., gradually stealing the land of its neighbors, and persistently provoking those same neighbors to facilitate the ... that's right, the status quo!

The status quo, where the U.S. provides welfare and shields Israel from accountability at the U.N.

So sure, moving the conversation to another topic would be GREAT for you. One less voice like mine to highlight Israel's sins.

Except I am not unconditionally supportive of Israel. And you'll find most American Jews - if you bothered asking with any integrity - would tell you the same. In fact we have a very uneasy and complicated relationship with Israel - and are deeply critical of much of what it does and is doing, and its leadership.

It's just we also think Israel does have a right to exist, and it doesn't have to be blameless to have a right to exist.

You are too busy justifying 10/7 and "by any means necessary" to ever, ever think with any nuance. It's pretty bad,

Critical of Israel while you apply for dual citizenship?

I haven't applied for dual citizenship but watching antisemitism flourish among people I used to consider friends and allies has me thinking about it, yes.

I wonder where you should go back to. I'm sure you're not Native American.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile, 100 more Gazans were killed yesterday and bombing has intensified. Biden has admitted that his line in the sand (that there be a plan to protect civilians) has been crossed. Why can’t the US pull their aid or vote yes in the U.N. to demand a ceasefire?

Is this a ceasefire for Hamas too or cool if they keep bombing and raping and holding hostages?

How many war crimes does Israel get to commit for each hostage held?

Just tell me: is this ceasefire you're demanding for both sides or only Israel?

DP

These attempts to distract from Israel’s conduct by obsessing over the rockets feels like negotiating with a serial domestic abuser …

“We can’t talk about me stopping viciously beating you within inches of your life every day unless you also agree to stop using cumin in the chili, which you know I don’t like. BOTH of us have to make changes, OK?”

Is that a no - only Israel has to do a ceasefire, not Hamas?

No, a cease fire - by definition - involves all parties. Zionists demanding that others follow “the rules” of anything just makes me laugh aloud at the hypocrisy.

Now you're mad that some of us want a ceasefire to apply to both sides of this terrible war?

Nobody is mad at you for wanting a ceasefire. It's just funny to think people who think rules never apply to them, and whose "side" has been afforded a comically massive advantage in this conflict solely by virtue of U.S. interference on their behalf, think that anyone believes them when they cry "But the other side is a threat to us, too. Make them stop and then we'll stop!" ...

You think we think rules don't apply to us, but also that only our side is bound by a ceasefire?

What else would one think when dealing with delusional people who believe they were chosen by god?

Heh the Hamas supporters here calling anyone else delusional is riiich

We could move this to the religion forum where we debate whose religion is weirder when looked at from the outside... As a Jew living among Christians - I welcome that conversation.

Yeah, that sounds great and all, but here's the rub: As a Jewish person who is unconditionally supportive of Israel, your primary directive is to do anything and everything possible to maintain the status quo and quell debate over Israel's sins.

You want this thread to die - yesterday! You want to change the subject, toss a monkey wrench into actual debate with "whataboutism!", propagate the evergreen Israeli propaganda, and otherwise impede the exchange of information that may change opinions. The status quo is your backstop position, albeit one that is VERY comfortable. And even though you want more (power, land, resources, control over others), you have historically found that you can at least shut down debate and enable Israel to continue doing what Israel does: leeching off the U.S., gradually stealing the land of its neighbors, and persistently provoking those same neighbors to facilitate the ... that's right, the status quo!

The status quo, where the U.S. provides welfare and shields Israel from accountability at the U.N.

So sure, moving the conversation to another topic would be GREAT for you. One less voice like mine to highlight Israel's sins.

Except I am not unconditionally supportive of Israel. And you'll find most American Jews - if you bothered asking with any integrity - would tell you the same. In fact we have a very uneasy and complicated relationship with Israel - and are deeply critical of much of what it does and is doing, and its leadership.

It's just we also think Israel does have a right to exist, and it doesn't have to be blameless to have a right to exist.

You are too busy justifying 10/7 and "by any means necessary" to ever, ever think with any nuance. It's pretty bad,

I also think Israel SHOULD exist. No country has a RIGHT to exist, but Israel exists. I would have preferred that worldwide Jewry would have been welcome and safe to live ANYWHERE rather than create a Jewish homeland, but that's just my view.

I don't want or need to justify 10/7. The atrocity of what Hamas did on 10/7 doesn't absolve the atrocities of what Israel has done for decades. There CAN be two bad actors in this analysis.

This is a good point. There are two bad actors in this play. Two groups of terrorists. They are practically twins so why are we pretending otherwise

Maybe because one of those bad actors relies upon U.S. welfare to be able to commit their sins?

Relies is a strong word. US sends lots of money to Gaza and West Bank, some thru UN, but I wouldn't say Hamas is relying on the aid to attack Israel.
They are relying on aid from Iran.

Hamas is banned from aid by the U.S. and EU. Unfortunately, Hamas runs a better state than the West Bank which takes the bulk of the US funding .

Hamas is a terrorist organization that hides its terrorists in hospitals and so-called safe zones. Their ear crimes put their civilian population at risk. They are not a more successful or better run state. They're extremist terrorists.

AND they are still using UNRWA for cover as well - and UNRWA may still be complicit in Hamas terrorism. New report out says a senior Hamas commander, Muhammad Abu Hasna was killed in a strike on an UNRWA facility in Rafah. Also, the aid being sent to that center was being funneled to Hamas.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/strike-on-unrwa-facility-in-rafah-took-out-hamas-commander-who-stole-aid-says-idf/

Abu Hasna was deputy head of police operations in Rafah.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/03/13/israel-strike-unrwa-center-hamas/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile, 100 more Gazans were killed yesterday and bombing has intensified. Biden has admitted that his line in the sand (that there be a plan to protect civilians) has been crossed. Why can’t the US pull their aid or vote yes in the U.N. to demand a ceasefire?

Is this a ceasefire for Hamas too or cool if they keep bombing and raping and holding hostages?

How many war crimes does Israel get to commit for each hostage held?

Just tell me: is this ceasefire you're demanding for both sides or only Israel?

DP

These attempts to distract from Israel’s conduct by obsessing over the rockets feels like negotiating with a serial domestic abuser …

“We can’t talk about me stopping viciously beating you within inches of your life every day unless you also agree to stop using cumin in the chili, which you know I don’t like. BOTH of us have to make changes, OK?”

Is that a no - only Israel has to do a ceasefire, not Hamas?

No, a cease fire - by definition - involves all parties. Zionists demanding that others follow “the rules” of anything just makes me laugh aloud at the hypocrisy.

Now you're mad that some of us want a ceasefire to apply to both sides of this terrible war?

Nobody is mad at you for wanting a ceasefire. It's just funny to think people who think rules never apply to them, and whose "side" has been afforded a comically massive advantage in this conflict solely by virtue of U.S. interference on their behalf, think that anyone believes them when they cry "But the other side is a threat to us, too. Make them stop and then we'll stop!" ...

You think we think rules don't apply to us, but also that only our side is bound by a ceasefire?

What else would one think when dealing with delusional people who believe they were chosen by god?

Heh the Hamas supporters here calling anyone else delusional is riiich

We could move this to the religion forum where we debate whose religion is weirder when looked at from the outside... As a Jew living among Christians - I welcome that conversation.

Yeah, that sounds great and all, but here's the rub: As a Jewish person who is unconditionally supportive of Israel, your primary directive is to do anything and everything possible to maintain the status quo and quell debate over Israel's sins.

You want this thread to die - yesterday! You want to change the subject, toss a monkey wrench into actual debate with "whataboutism!", propagate the evergreen Israeli propaganda, and otherwise impede the exchange of information that may change opinions. The status quo is your backstop position, albeit one that is VERY comfortable. And even though you want more (power, land, resources, control over others), you have historically found that you can at least shut down debate and enable Israel to continue doing what Israel does: leeching off the U.S., gradually stealing the land of its neighbors, and persistently provoking those same neighbors to facilitate the ... that's right, the status quo!

The status quo, where the U.S. provides welfare and shields Israel from accountability at the U.N.

So sure, moving the conversation to another topic would be GREAT for you. One less voice like mine to highlight Israel's sins.

Except I am not unconditionally supportive of Israel. And you'll find most American Jews - if you bothered asking with any integrity - would tell you the same. In fact we have a very uneasy and complicated relationship with Israel - and are deeply critical of much of what it does and is doing, and its leadership.

It's just we also think Israel does have a right to exist, and it doesn't have to be blameless to have a right to exist.

You are too busy justifying 10/7 and "by any means necessary" to ever, ever think with any nuance. It's pretty bad,

I also think Israel SHOULD exist. No country has a RIGHT to exist, but Israel exists. I would have preferred that worldwide Jewry would have been welcome and safe to live ANYWHERE rather than create a Jewish homeland, but that's just my view.

I don't want or need to justify 10/7. The atrocity of what Hamas did on 10/7 doesn't absolve the atrocities of what Israel has done for decades. There CAN be two bad actors in this analysis.

This is a good point. There are two bad actors in this play. Two groups of terrorists. They are practically twins so why are we pretending otherwise

Maybe because one of those bad actors relies upon U.S. welfare to be able to commit their sins?

Relies is a strong word. US sends lots of money to Gaza and West Bank, some thru UN, but I wouldn't say Hamas is relying on the aid to attack Israel.
They are relying on aid from Iran.

Hamas is banned from aid by the U.S. and EU. Unfortunately, Hamas runs a better state than the West Bank which takes the bulk of the US funding .

Hamas is a terrorist organization that hides its terrorists in hospitals and so-called safe zones. Their ear crimes put their civilian population at risk. They are not a more successful or better run state. They're extremist terrorists.

AND they are still using UNRWA for cover as well - and UNRWA may still be complicit in Hamas terrorism. New report out says a senior Hamas commander, Muhammad Abu Hasna was killed in a strike on an UNRWA facility in Rafah. Also, the aid being sent to that center was being funneled to Hamas.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/strike-on-unrwa-facility-in-rafah-took-out-hamas-commander-who-stole-aid-says-idf/

Just more Israeli war crimes. There in no proof just Israeli lies about UNRWA. The only terrorist are the Israelis and the world see this. It is time to treat the Israelis like the North Koreans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Just more Israeli war crimes. There in no proof just Israeli lies about UNRWA. The only terrorist are the Israelis and the world see this. It is time to treat the Israelis like the North Koreans.

Completely agree.

[Anonymous]

At a large pro-Palestinian student and faculty protest at Columbia University in New York City on Friday, two Zionists sprayed students with something resembling a chemical weapon called “Skunk.” Both individuals, who were wearing fake keffiyehs, have been identified as Columbia General Studies students and former Israel Defense Forces (IDF) soldiers.

The attack took place during an event—“Hands off Yemen and Gaza! No more tuition for the war machine”—that was organized by the Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP) and Jewish Voice for Peace (JVP) chapters at Columbia University outside the Low Library. Despite freezing temperatures and a systematic campaign of intimidation targeting opponents of the state policy of genocide in Gaza, the protest drew around 300 participants. ..

.. A Columbia student present at the protest told the World Socialist Web Site, “The people who did this were Columbia students who served in the IDF. This was premeditated and done with the aim to hurt students. Columbia needs to take immediate action. This behavior is unacceptable on a college campus.”

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2024/01/22/lfsy-j22.html

Truth comes out. These “students” or really IDF thugs need their identity and address release to the public. Hopefully Columbia will expel these thugs and band anyone who is involved with the IDF. These people are terrorists. Could you imagine what would have happened if Palestinians had did this?

[Anonymous]

The sickos really come out of the woodwork when they are given disproportionate power. Here is a horrifying report of the torture of Palestinian detainees: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/3/13/after-the-unrwa-report-more-accounts-of-israels-torture-in-gaza

The IDF is particularly aggressive toward UNRWA staff and tries to torture false confessions out of them. The pattern of treatment here is similar to that of a Palestinian friend of mine, an UNRWA teacher, who was kidnapped and beaten by the IDF last November.