Middle School is Easy, But Does it Matter? (Not Deal)

[Anonymous]

We have one of these kids who at 12 despite all other real-life foibles gets every assignment done and redoes stuff (universally allowed, I guess?) to get the kid's grades up to an A. As a result, the kid is doing stellar, grades-wise.

Testing wise the kid's not a genius but ahead of grade level. Just guessing, if you put the kid into high school tomorrow, I expect this kid would probably do just fine. Not a brag, just that the kid is pretty organized and follows what's happening in class.

This kid is sociable, plenty of friends. Does a couple of sports. Seems nerdy but popular (who knew that was possible when we were in middle school?)

But are we supposed to look for more for this kid? Do we have to make it HARD somehow? Do we have to try to make the kid challenged or put them in the hardest math or English class we can find? I feel like that's not necessary, but am I not 'tiger mom enough' or whatever the BS toxic lingo is now if I don't do that?

Also - this is a middle school that's not Deal, so there aren't 15 levels of exquisitely differentiated variations on class X for everything.

What do you parents think? I also wish I knew what teachers thought of this kind of student, who can just mostly do everything without working too hard, but isn't "bored," "acting out," "feeling not challenged," and likes the friends and teachers at the school.

I mean, if this kid went to a different school wouldn't it just be a different version of the same thing? Does it actually matter if this kid isn't asked to flex the mental muscles, but conscientiously keeps grades up without parental direction? (We are not the helicopter type, just some EOTP white parents who went to not-that-great schools, did well, and are unsure what the expectations/obligations/opportunities are here).

So - appreciate the hive mind views.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have one of these kids who at 12 despite all other real-life foibles gets every assignment done and redoes stuff (universally allowed, I guess?) to get the kid's grades up to an A. As a result, the kid is doing stellar, grades-wise.

Testing wise the kid's not a genius but ahead of grade level. Just guessing, if you put the kid into high school tomorrow, I expect this kid would probably do just fine. Not a brag, just that the kid is pretty organized and follows what's happening in class.

This kid is sociable, plenty of friends. Does a couple of sports. Seems nerdy but popular (who knew that was possible when we were in middle school?)

But are we supposed to look for more for this kid? Do we have to make it HARD somehow? Do we have to try to make the kid challenged or put them in the hardest math or English class we can find? I feel like that's not necessary, but am I not 'tiger mom enough' or whatever the BS toxic lingo is now if I don't do that?

Also - this is a middle school that's not Deal, so there aren't 15 levels of exquisitely differentiated variations on class X for everything.

What do you parents think? I also wish I knew what teachers thought of this kind of student, who can just mostly do everything without working too hard, but isn't "bored," "acting out," "feeling not challenged," and likes the friends and teachers at the school.

I mean, if this kid went to a different school wouldn't it just be a different version of the same thing? Does it actually matter if this kid isn't asked to flex the mental muscles, but conscientiously keeps grades up without parental direction? (We are not the helicopter type, just some EOTP white parents who went to not-that-great schools, did well, and are unsure what the expectations/obligations/opportunities are here).

So - appreciate the hive mind views.

No matter how much you (legally and without bribes) game the system, odds of guaranteeing an Ivy/"top school" are low.

Why don't you ask the kid what s/he wants to do? Unless its some astronomically high ambition, sounds like s/he is doing fine. Let them enjoy school, being a kid. Why pressure cook them.

Ask them if they want to learn more than what they are learning in school, or are interested in a topic. If you have the cash, pay for some camp or tutoring in that. Or learn it with them with library books/internet. Or just be like "oh, cool."

And as long as they get good grades in college, they can press the RESET BUTTON with good college grades and go to a good law school. Is it a calling for people like that? No, but its a living

Just my 2 cents as another EOTP who went to a middling state college (and great law school!) and ended up fine.

[Anonymous]

Different parents have different perspectives. DS is high performing and I want him to be challenged enough that he is working at least moderately hard to achieve his goals, not cruising, not getting by with little effort.

Ideally that means being among a peer group that is as, if not more high performing. He will need to flex and work and that is where he will reach his potential.

Our goal is not easy A’s. It’s actually learning academics, organizational and executive functioning skills, and developing a strong work ethic. It’s being prepared for the higher level playing field college and beyond.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have one of these kids who at 12 despite all other real-life foibles gets every assignment done and redoes stuff (universally allowed, I guess?) to get the kid's grades up to an A. As a result, the kid is doing stellar, grades-wise.

Testing wise the kid's not a genius but ahead of grade level. Just guessing, if you put the kid into high school tomorrow, I expect this kid would probably do just fine. Not a brag, just that the kid is pretty organized and follows what's happening in class.

This kid is sociable, plenty of friends. Does a couple of sports. Seems nerdy but popular (who knew that was possible when we were in middle school?)

But are we supposed to look for more for this kid? Do we have to make it HARD somehow? Do we have to try to make the kid challenged or put them in the hardest math or English class we can find? I feel like that's not necessary, but am I not 'tiger mom enough' or whatever the BS toxic lingo is now if I don't do that?

Also - this is a middle school that's not Deal, so there aren't 15 levels of exquisitely differentiated variations on class X for everything.

What do you parents think? I also wish I knew what teachers thought of this kind of student, who can just mostly do everything without working too hard, but isn't "bored," "acting out," "feeling not challenged," and likes the friends and teachers at the school.

I mean, if this kid went to a different school wouldn't it just be a different version of the same thing? Does it actually matter if this kid isn't asked to flex the mental muscles, but conscientiously keeps grades up without parental direction? (We are not the helicopter type, just some EOTP white parents who went to not-that-great schools, did well, and are unsure what the expectations/obligations/opportunities are here).

So - appreciate the hive mind views.

Your child is not reaching his full potential. That’s fine if you are OK with that.

[Anonymous]

I don't think middle school needs to be hard. As long as you feel like the school is preparing him for advanced high school level work. If middle school is easy because the school/teachers aren't teaching anything and don't expect anything that would be a concern. If my kid just picked up the material quickly and doesn't have to work that hard for it and is happy then just enjoy it.

[Anonymous]

If you're looking for a real challenge, maybe try an online CTY class on a topic your child is most interested in. Sometimes being out-performed by peers (or just having peers on an equal level and seeing how fun it can be) is what a kid needs. Ask yourself if you're providing those growth opportunities.

Read The Self-Driven Child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Different parents have different perspectives. DS is high performing and I want him to be challenged enough that he is working at least moderately hard to achieve his goals, not cruising, not getting by with little effort.

Ideally that means being among a peer group that is as, if not more high performing. He will need to flex and work and that is where he will reach his potential.

Our goal is not easy A’s. It’s actually learning academics, organizational and executive functioning skills, and developing a strong work ethic. It’s being prepared for the higher level playing field college and beyond.

+1. Totally agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have one of these kids who at 12 despite all other real-life foibles gets every assignment done and redoes stuff (universally allowed, I guess?) to get the kid's grades up to an A. As a result, the kid is doing stellar, grades-wise.

Testing wise the kid's not a genius but ahead of grade level. Just guessing, if you put the kid into high school tomorrow, I expect this kid would probably do just fine. Not a brag, just that the kid is pretty organized and follows what's happening in class.

This kid is sociable, plenty of friends. Does a couple of sports. Seems nerdy but popular (who knew that was possible when we were in middle school?)

But are we supposed to look for more for this kid? Do we have to make it HARD somehow? Do we have to try to make the kid challenged or put them in the hardest math or English class we can find? I feel like that's not necessary, but am I not 'tiger mom enough' or whatever the BS toxic lingo is now if I don't do that?

Also - this is a middle school that's not Deal, so there aren't 15 levels of exquisitely differentiated variations on class X for everything.

What do you parents think? I also wish I knew what teachers thought of this kind of student, who can just mostly do everything without working too hard, but isn't "bored," "acting out," "feeling not challenged," and likes the friends and teachers at the school.

I mean, if this kid went to a different school wouldn't it just be a different version of the same thing? Does it actually matter if this kid isn't asked to flex the mental muscles, but conscientiously keeps grades up without parental direction? (We are not the helicopter type, just some EOTP white parents who went to not-that-great schools, did well, and are unsure what the expectations/obligations/opportunities are here).

So - appreciate the hive mind views.

Your child is not reaching his full potential. That’s fine if you are OK with that.

I don't think potential had anything to do with how hard you're working in school, or even what a school offers necessarily

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have one of these kids who at 12 despite all other real-life foibles gets every assignment done and redoes stuff (universally allowed, I guess?) to get the kid's grades up to an A. As a result, the kid is doing stellar, grades-wise.

Testing wise the kid's not a genius but ahead of grade level. Just guessing, if you put the kid into high school tomorrow, I expect this kid would probably do just fine. Not a brag, just that the kid is pretty organized and follows what's happening in class.

This kid is sociable, plenty of friends. Does a couple of sports. Seems nerdy but popular (who knew that was possible when we were in middle school?)

But are we supposed to look for more for this kid? Do we have to make it HARD somehow? Do we have to try to make the kid challenged or put them in the hardest math or English class we can find? I feel like that's not necessary, but am I not 'tiger mom enough' or whatever the BS toxic lingo is now if I don't do that?

Also - this is a middle school that's not Deal, so there aren't 15 levels of exquisitely differentiated variations on class X for everything.

What do you parents think? I also wish I knew what teachers thought of this kind of student, who can just mostly do everything without working too hard, but isn't "bored," "acting out," "feeling not challenged," and likes the friends and teachers at the school.

I mean, if this kid went to a different school wouldn't it just be a different version of the same thing? Does it actually matter if this kid isn't asked to flex the mental muscles, but conscientiously keeps grades up without parental direction? (We are not the helicopter type, just some EOTP white parents who went to not-that-great schools, did well, and are unsure what the expectations/obligations/opportunities are here).

So - appreciate the hive mind views.

Your child is not reaching his full potential. That’s fine if you are OK with that.

I don't think potential had anything to do with how hard you're working in school, or even what a school offers necessarily

So you are saying a high performing kid going to Eastern will reach his full potential as much as someone going to Walls and both be prepared the same for a competitive college. Got it.

[Anonymous]

Well, what you're missing is the opportunity to really dig in and develop in an area of interest. Nobody's saying to pressure your kid, but are you providing the kind of experiences that could truly spark interest and a high level of internal motivation? Sometimes being around a peer group that's at or slightly above their level is helpful for that, and it sounds like you're not really getting that at school. Not saying you should change schools, but some kids get that from school, and yours isn't.

Getting good grades and doing sports competently is nice, but there's so much more to enjoy. Have you considered a sleepaway camp for kids with a particular interest, such as CTY or Northfield Mount Hermon, or Outward Bound or any sort of wilderness program? Time to think slightly outside the box.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well, what you're missing is the opportunity to really dig in and develop in an area of interest. Nobody's saying to pressure your kid, but are you providing the kind of experiences that could truly spark interest and a high level of internal motivation? Sometimes being around a peer group that's at or slightly above their level is helpful for that, and it sounds like you're not really getting that at school. Not saying you should change schools, but some kids get that from school, and yours isn't.

Getting good grades and doing sports competently is nice, but there's so much more to enjoy. Have you considered a sleepaway camp for kids with a particular interest, such as CTY or Northfield Mount Hermon, or Outward Bound or any sort of wilderness program? Time to think slightly outside the box.

Hey this is a good thought and kind of out of the box. Thanks. -OP

[Anonymous]

Yes, I purposefully challenge my precocious child.

This is after I realized that coaching, tutoring, and otherwise accompanying my oldest, who has special needs, and for whom standard goals were extremely challenging, made him more resilient and mentally strong. So I applied this to my other child: she's advanced, and has zero challenges in school, because they don't want to skip her ahead for more classes than they've already given her. So she took up an instrument at a young age, does horseback riding, creates digital art on a platform with friends and writes short stories for a gaming platform where she is paid in game currency. She does violin competitions, which meets her competitive streak, and would love to do pony club and eventing, but we don't have the money.

This is because I know high school and college, and indeed life in general, are much harder than those elementary and middle school years. The transition from middle to high school can be brutal if you've skated by, haven't developed much work ethic because everything is too easy, and all of a sudden you realize you need to take as many AP classes as you can, starting in 9th grade, to even have a chance at a selective college.

I am developing her mental resilience and organizational skills, and getting her used to sustained effort and delayed gratification (there's nothing like learning the Mendelssohn concerto for a year before being able to play it in a musically acceptable manner to teach you delayed gratification).

Of course, you've got to work with your child, and go with their interests! All these are activities she chose herself.

[Anonymous]

OP let me tell you a story. I grew up in a rural red state. Nice family, okay school, I did well and was in no way deprived or mistreated. And I played the clarinet in the band. I became first clarinet after diligent effort, and I enjoyed it. But then my music teacher suggested I try out for the statewide orchestra. We didn't have orchestra in my school. It's a 3-day weekend kind of thing, you stay with a host family and there's one concert and that's that. And I thought, why not-- nothing I like better than getting away from my parents for a few days!

I will never, ever forget it. Just the sound of the orchestra tuning up blew my little mind, it was all so beautiful and thrilling. I literally had no idea that such an experience was possible for me. I had the very best time with my host family and made great friends with other music dorks, and when I got back the fire kept burning in my brain. I threw myself into music stuff, joined a regional youth orchestra despite the long drives, played in the pit for some musicals, went to camp, even traveled abroad for it, had the best time and am friends to this day with many of the other kids. I played in college too, and am still a big classical music fan and orchestra-goer now. Lifelong enjoyment. And if I didn't feel that level of joy in it, I wouldn't have been motivated to work as hard as I did. I got a lot out of it in terms of developing work ethic and persistence. I took so much satisfaction in every milestone.

Nobody pressured me or hassled me. It wasn't about grades or getting into X group or college admissions. It was about discovering my joy, and personal development that resulted from it. All because one teacher opened the door in a low-commitment way. This isn't about making life hard, this is about exposing them to their own potential. Don't you want that joy and satisfaction for your kid? Start opening doors!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have one of these kids who at 12 despite all other real-life foibles gets every assignment done and redoes stuff (universally allowed, I guess?) to get the kid's grades up to an A. As a result, the kid is doing stellar, grades-wise.

Testing wise the kid's not a genius but ahead of grade level. Just guessing, if you put the kid into high school tomorrow, I expect this kid would probably do just fine. Not a brag, just that the kid is pretty organized and follows what's happening in class.

This kid is sociable, plenty of friends. Does a couple of sports. Seems nerdy but popular (who knew that was possible when we were in middle school?)

But are we supposed to look for more for this kid? Do we have to make it HARD somehow? Do we have to try to make the kid challenged or put them in the hardest math or English class we can find? I feel like that's not necessary, but am I not 'tiger mom enough' or whatever the BS toxic lingo is now if I don't do that?

Also - this is a middle school that's not Deal, so there aren't 15 levels of exquisitely differentiated variations on class X for everything.

What do you parents think? I also wish I knew what teachers thought of this kind of student, who can just mostly do everything without working too hard, but isn't "bored," "acting out," "feeling not challenged," and likes the friends and teachers at the school.

I mean, if this kid went to a different school wouldn't it just be a different version of the same thing? Does it actually matter if this kid isn't asked to flex the mental muscles, but conscientiously keeps grades up without parental direction? (We are not the helicopter type, just some EOTP white parents who went to not-that-great schools, did well, and are unsure what the expectations/obligations/opportunities are here).

So - appreciate the hive mind views.

Your child is not reaching his full potential. That’s fine if you are OK with that.

I don't think potential had anything to do with how hard you're working in school, or even what a school offers necessarily

So you are saying a high performing kid going to Eastern will reach his full potential as much as someone going to Walls and both be prepared the same for a competitive college. Got it.

OP’s kid is far more likely to get into Walls if he stays the course at his unchallenging middle school than if he changes schools in search of more challenge.

[Anonymous]

Well, pressure cooker schools aren't necessarily good for every smart child, some benefit and blossom, some start seeing themselves as mediocre compared to others and lose their confidence, others develop serious mental health issues trying to keep up with others. Be careful, what you are wishing for. It can mess up child-parent relationship as well because parents push harder and expect them to do as well as others. Class ranking becomes a driving factor and learning takes backseat.