Anonymous wrote:The first time that Ma’amar witnessed settler violence was in 1996. It was in the wake of the first election to Prime Minister of Benjamin Netanyahu, who was intent on blocking any progress toward a two-state solution. Shilo took even more land from Qaryut, to make a vineyard. The village staged a protest, which Ma’amar filmed. The Army and settlers rushed in, firing shots into the air, and settlers beat people and tried to take cameras from anyone documenting the scene. An Israeli court ruled that the land should be returned to Qaryut, but Ma’amar said that settlers continued to attack people who approached, so the land was effectively lost.
In the years that followed, settlers put up tents, then mobile homes, on hilltops. Settlements are mostly considered illegal under international law, but these outposts were illegal even under Israeli law. Still, the government did little to dissuade the hilltop settlers, who viewed themselves as pioneers. The outposts were quickly connected to larger settlements by water systems, power lines, and paved roads. In time, a corridor of settlement took shape, slicing across the West Bank until the map looked more and more like the one envisioned by many settlers and political leaders, in which Palestinians would live in small and disconnected territories within an expanded Israel. Qaryut sat right in the corridor’s path; there were now eight official settlements and at least eleven smaller outposts in a five-mile radius of the village. “Without international and legal pressure on the Israelis, Qaryut will disappear,” Ma’amar said.
In November, 2022, Netanyahu won reëlection for the sixth time. To form a governing coalition, he allied with leaders of far-right parties, including Itamar Ben-Gvir and Bezalel Smotrich, who advocate for annexing the West Bank. Since then, the situation there has grown dramatically worse. In the first nine months of 2023, Ma’amar filed about seventy police reports of settler violence. In February, while he was driving an ambulance to pick up people injured in an attack, settlers smashed his windows and tried to burn the vehicle. In June, Palestinian gunmen killed four settlers near Eli; the next day, hundreds of settlers descended on Turmus Aya, a nearby village, shooting residents and burning cars and houses, some with people inside. By September, 2023, the United Nations was documenting around three settler-related incidents each day, the highest since it had started tracking the trend, in 2006, and eleven hundred Palestinians in the West Bank had been displaced.
Since October 7th, when Hamas-led fighters broke through the fence on Gaza’s border with Israel and killed some twelve hundred people and took some two hundred and fifty hostages, attacks near Qaryut have become routine. Settlers have burned cars and houses, blockaded roads, damaged electricity networks, seized farmland, severed irrigation lines, attacked people in their fields and olive groves, and killed, all without repercussion. Ma’amar told me that a thousand acres had been cut off from Qaryut. The U.N. has recorded five hundred and seventy-three attacks by settlers in the West Bank since the war began, with Israeli forces accompanying them half the time. At least nine people have been killed by settlers, and three hundred and eighty-two have been killed by Israeli forces. Five Israelis have been killed in the West Bank, at least one of whom was a civilian.
On October 9th, settlers sent a picture on Facebook to people in Qusra, a few miles from Qaryut, of masked men holding axes, clubs, a gas can, and a chainsaw, with text that read, “To all the rats in the sewers of Qusra village, we are waiting for you and we will not feel sorry for you. The day of revenge is coming.” Two days later, at the edge of the village, settlers lit utility poles on fire and tried to break into a house. For a half hour, a family huddled inside; then young men from the village arrived and threw rocks at the Israelis. Ma’amar drove over in his ambulance. At that point, the settlers started shooting. A man handed Ma’amar a six-year-old girl who had been shot. As the man walked away, he was shot and killed. When Ma’amar sped off, he said, settlers fired on his ambulance. Three Palestinians were killed, one of them the son of a man who had been killed by settlers in 2017. Then the Israeli Army stormed the village and killed a thirteen-year-old boy.
The next day, Hani Odeh, the mayor of Qusra, arranged for a procession to transport the bodies from the hospital to the village. Ma’amar took one of them in his ambulance. The I.D.F. dictated the route, then directed mourners to change course to avoid settlers. But dozens of settlers blocked the road and stoned the procession anyway. “I got out and talked to the Israeli commander, begging him to make the settlers leave,” Odeh said. “He told me to turn around.” The settlers killed a sixty-two-year-old man and his twenty-five-year-old son.
They can’t just continue to unleash the settlers on us like that,” Odeh told me. “My generation has always tried to reason with our youth, but they can no longer take it, so what am I to do? People like me, who advocated for peace their whole lives—we are not respected anymore. They say what did Abu Mazen”—Mahmoud Abbas, the president of the Palestinian Authority—“ever do for us? And they’re right. He keeps asking people to protest peacefully. Peacefully? There’s nothing peaceful about the situation we’re in.”
Reading this, and thinking back on how so many try to label criticism of Israel as inherently “anti-semitic” or to blame hostility toward Israelis as unfair, born of some innate hatred of Jews, etc. …
No. THIS and so many similar situations that Israel engages in every day is why there is hostility toward Israel today, and toward supporters of Israel today. This isn’t about all Jewish people. This is about toxic, malignant Zionism.
Many Jewish people agree with you and are absolutely sickened by Israel's atrocities. This makes it quite clear that you are right. There is nothing antisemitic about standing up against, as you say, "toxic, malignant Zionism." It is the "toxic, malignant Zionists" who try to throw up a smokescreen by screaming about "antisemitism" when anyone draws attention to Israel's war crimes and unacceptable behavior. People are fed up with this cheap and underhanded trick.
Azerbaijan demanded yesterday that Armenia gives up 4 villages immediately. This is after expelling 1.6 million Armenians in September. Where are the threads, the protests, the condemnation of toxic, malignant Azerbaijanism? No? Nothing? Pakistan is expelling its 20 million Afghan refugees and leveling their refugee camps? Still no condemnation of toxic malignant Pakistanianism? Muslim countries can do whatever? We only have condemnation for the one Jewish country?
Why don’t you make threads about it?
Deflection deflection deflection
Threads were made they don’t generate any interest at all. Because the lives of Armenians, Kurds, Afghans don’t matter unless there is Israel involved.
The US cares more about where our money is disproportionately going to compared to other nations and that’s fair for us to have more investment in where we have more investment
The ukraine thread is 473 pages and we spent billions there. The Gaza war thread is almost 2 thousand pages long. Interestingly the thread started on October 7th and was titled “looks like another Gaza war has started” instead of something like “Hamas terrorists infiltrate Israel and kill hundreds”
To be honest I think we should not be supportu g Ukraine with weapons. However, can’t you see the key difference?
In Ukraine we are supporting the country being attacked
In Gaza we are aiding a country to attack and starve others.
You remember how Hamas went into Israel and raped and murdered innocent civilians? Or how Hamas fired thousands and thousands of rockets into Israel, and continues to fire rockets into Israel?
So now maybe you can see how wrong your assertion that Israel is attacking and starving others is just flat out wrong.
Did your universe really begin on 10/7/2023?
You want to play this game. You remember in the 1940s when the Israelis agreed to a plan that would have established two independent states, and almost immediately the Palestinians deciding to reject the plan and attacked the new Israeli state?
This has played out time and time again. And each time the international community just decides the Israelis are evil.
To create the Israeli state, Palestinian villages were razed including villages like Deir Yasin that signed peace treaties with Jewish immigrants , and people were already pushed out by 1948. The Nakba had already happened.
If the plan was in good faith, why didn’t Israel go to the Palestinians or Arabs or instead of the Brits in the first place? Why didn’t they ask for a two state partition to the Ottomans? They hid their agenda till the moment they had a huge army .
The plan to take Palestine from under them was on since the 1800s.
Anonymous wrote:The first time that Ma’amar witnessed settler violence was in 1996. It was in the wake of the first election to Prime Minister of Benjamin Netanyahu, who was intent on blocking any progress toward a two-state solution. Shilo took even more land from Qaryut, to make a vineyard. The village staged a protest, which Ma’amar filmed. The Army and settlers rushed in, firing shots into the air, and settlers beat people and tried to take cameras from anyone documenting the scene. An Israeli court ruled that the land should be returned to Qaryut, but Ma’amar said that settlers continued to attack people who approached, so the land was effectively lost.
In the years that followed, settlers put up tents, then mobile homes, on hilltops. Settlements are mostly considered illegal under international law, but these outposts were illegal even under Israeli law. Still, the government did little to dissuade the hilltop settlers, who viewed themselves as pioneers. The outposts were quickly connected to larger settlements by water systems, power lines, and paved roads. In time, a corridor of settlement took shape, slicing across the West Bank until the map looked more and more like the one envisioned by many settlers and political leaders, in which Palestinians would live in small and disconnected territories within an expanded Israel. Qaryut sat right in the corridor’s path; there were now eight official settlements and at least eleven smaller outposts in a five-mile radius of the village. “Without international and legal pressure on the Israelis, Qaryut will disappear,” Ma’amar said.
In November, 2022, Netanyahu won reëlection for the sixth time. To form a governing coalition, he allied with leaders of far-right parties, including Itamar Ben-Gvir and Bezalel Smotrich, who advocate for annexing the West Bank. Since then, the situation there has grown dramatically worse. In the first nine months of 2023, Ma’amar filed about seventy police reports of settler violence. In February, while he was driving an ambulance to pick up people injured in an attack, settlers smashed his windows and tried to burn the vehicle. In June, Palestinian gunmen killed four settlers near Eli; the next day, hundreds of settlers descended on Turmus Aya, a nearby village, shooting residents and burning cars and houses, some with people inside. By September, 2023, the United Nations was documenting around three settler-related incidents each day, the highest since it had started tracking the trend, in 2006, and eleven hundred Palestinians in the West Bank had been displaced.
Since October 7th, when Hamas-led fighters broke through the fence on Gaza’s border with Israel and killed some twelve hundred people and took some two hundred and fifty hostages, attacks near Qaryut have become routine. Settlers have burned cars and houses, blockaded roads, damaged electricity networks, seized farmland, severed irrigation lines, attacked people in their fields and olive groves, and killed, all without repercussion. Ma’amar told me that a thousand acres had been cut off from Qaryut. The U.N. has recorded five hundred and seventy-three attacks by settlers in the West Bank since the war began, with Israeli forces accompanying them half the time. At least nine people have been killed by settlers, and three hundred and eighty-two have been killed by Israeli forces. Five Israelis have been killed in the West Bank, at least one of whom was a civilian.
On October 9th, settlers sent a picture on Facebook to people in Qusra, a few miles from Qaryut, of masked men holding axes, clubs, a gas can, and a chainsaw, with text that read, “To all the rats in the sewers of Qusra village, we are waiting for you and we will not feel sorry for you. The day of revenge is coming.” Two days later, at the edge of the village, settlers lit utility poles on fire and tried to break into a house. For a half hour, a family huddled inside; then young men from the village arrived and threw rocks at the Israelis. Ma’amar drove over in his ambulance. At that point, the settlers started shooting. A man handed Ma’amar a six-year-old girl who had been shot. As the man walked away, he was shot and killed. When Ma’amar sped off, he said, settlers fired on his ambulance. Three Palestinians were killed, one of them the son of a man who had been killed by settlers in 2017. Then the Israeli Army stormed the village and killed a thirteen-year-old boy.
The next day, Hani Odeh, the mayor of Qusra, arranged for a procession to transport the bodies from the hospital to the village. Ma’amar took one of them in his ambulance. The I.D.F. dictated the route, then directed mourners to change course to avoid settlers. But dozens of settlers blocked the road and stoned the procession anyway. “I got out and talked to the Israeli commander, begging him to make the settlers leave,” Odeh said. “He told me to turn around.” The settlers killed a sixty-two-year-old man and his twenty-five-year-old son.
They can’t just continue to unleash the settlers on us like that,” Odeh told me. “My generation has always tried to reason with our youth, but they can no longer take it, so what am I to do? People like me, who advocated for peace their whole lives—we are not respected anymore. They say what did Abu Mazen”—Mahmoud Abbas, the president of the Palestinian Authority—“ever do for us? And they’re right. He keeps asking people to protest peacefully. Peacefully? There’s nothing peaceful about the situation we’re in.”
Reading this, and thinking back on how so many try to label criticism of Israel as inherently “anti-semitic” or to blame hostility toward Israelis as unfair, born of some innate hatred of Jews, etc. …
No. THIS and so many similar situations that Israel engages in every day is why there is hostility toward Israel today, and toward supporters of Israel today. This isn’t about all Jewish people. This is about toxic, malignant Zionism.
Many Jewish people agree with you and are absolutely sickened by Israel's atrocities. This makes it quite clear that you are right. There is nothing antisemitic about standing up against, as you say, "toxic, malignant Zionism." It is the "toxic, malignant Zionists" who try to throw up a smokescreen by screaming about "antisemitism" when anyone draws attention to Israel's war crimes and unacceptable behavior. People are fed up with this cheap and underhanded trick.
Azerbaijan demanded yesterday that Armenia gives up 4 villages immediately. This is after expelling 1.6 million Armenians in September. Where are the threads, the protests, the condemnation of toxic, malignant Azerbaijanism? No? Nothing? Pakistan is expelling its 20 million Afghan refugees and leveling their refugee camps? Still no condemnation of toxic malignant Pakistanianism? Muslim countries can do whatever? We only have condemnation for the one Jewish country?
Why don’t you make threads about it?
Deflection deflection deflection
Threads were made they don’t generate any interest at all. Because the lives of Armenians, Kurds, Afghans don’t matter unless there is Israel involved.
The US cares more about where our money is disproportionately going to compared to other nations and that’s fair for us to have more investment in where we have more investment
The ukraine thread is 473 pages and we spent billions there. The Gaza war thread is almost 2 thousand pages long. Interestingly the thread started on October 7th and was titled “looks like another Gaza war has started” instead of something like “Hamas terrorists infiltrate Israel and kill hundreds”
To be honest I think we should not be supportu g Ukraine with weapons. However, can’t you see the key difference?
In Ukraine we are supporting the country being attacked
In Gaza we are aiding a country to attack and starve others.
You remember how Hamas went into Israel and raped and murdered innocent civilians? Or how Hamas fired thousands and thousands of rockets into Israel, and continues to fire rockets into Israel?
So now maybe you can see how wrong your assertion that Israel is attacking and starving others is just flat out wrong.
Did your universe really begin on 10/7/2023?
You want to play this game. You remember in the 1940s when the Israelis agreed to a plan that would have established two independent states, and almost immediately the Palestinians deciding to reject the plan and attacked the new Israeli state?
This has played out time and time again. And each time the international community just decides the Israelis are evil.
Zionists used ruthless terrorism to force the timing of a partition plan that GAVE them (less than 1/3 the local population following waves of illegal immigration, the vast majority of whom were obviously NOT indigenous) nearly 60% of the land area that was already occupied at the time by indigenous people.
Why WOULDN’T the Zionists have been thrilled with that plan?
Meanwhile, has it never occurred to you that the individuals already occupying that land, all of whom are indigenous and who accounted for around 70% of the overall population at the time, would have a problem with a partition plan that gave violent, illegal immigrants around 50% more land than was left for them?
Anonymous wrote:The first time that Ma’amar witnessed settler violence was in 1996. It was in the wake of the first election to Prime Minister of Benjamin Netanyahu, who was intent on blocking any progress toward a two-state solution. Shilo took even more land from Qaryut, to make a vineyard. The village staged a protest, which Ma’amar filmed. The Army and settlers rushed in, firing shots into the air, and settlers beat people and tried to take cameras from anyone documenting the scene. An Israeli court ruled that the land should be returned to Qaryut, but Ma’amar said that settlers continued to attack people who approached, so the land was effectively lost.
In the years that followed, settlers put up tents, then mobile homes, on hilltops. Settlements are mostly considered illegal under international law, but these outposts were illegal even under Israeli law. Still, the government did little to dissuade the hilltop settlers, who viewed themselves as pioneers. The outposts were quickly connected to larger settlements by water systems, power lines, and paved roads. In time, a corridor of settlement took shape, slicing across the West Bank until the map looked more and more like the one envisioned by many settlers and political leaders, in which Palestinians would live in small and disconnected territories within an expanded Israel. Qaryut sat right in the corridor’s path; there were now eight official settlements and at least eleven smaller outposts in a five-mile radius of the village. “Without international and legal pressure on the Israelis, Qaryut will disappear,” Ma’amar said.
In November, 2022, Netanyahu won reëlection for the sixth time. To form a governing coalition, he allied with leaders of far-right parties, including Itamar Ben-Gvir and Bezalel Smotrich, who advocate for annexing the West Bank. Since then, the situation there has grown dramatically worse. In the first nine months of 2023, Ma’amar filed about seventy police reports of settler violence. In February, while he was driving an ambulance to pick up people injured in an attack, settlers smashed his windows and tried to burn the vehicle. In June, Palestinian gunmen killed four settlers near Eli; the next day, hundreds of settlers descended on Turmus Aya, a nearby village, shooting residents and burning cars and houses, some with people inside. By September, 2023, the United Nations was documenting around three settler-related incidents each day, the highest since it had started tracking the trend, in 2006, and eleven hundred Palestinians in the West Bank had been displaced.
Since October 7th, when Hamas-led fighters broke through the fence on Gaza’s border with Israel and killed some twelve hundred people and took some two hundred and fifty hostages, attacks near Qaryut have become routine. Settlers have burned cars and houses, blockaded roads, damaged electricity networks, seized farmland, severed irrigation lines, attacked people in their fields and olive groves, and killed, all without repercussion. Ma’amar told me that a thousand acres had been cut off from Qaryut. The U.N. has recorded five hundred and seventy-three attacks by settlers in the West Bank since the war began, with Israeli forces accompanying them half the time. At least nine people have been killed by settlers, and three hundred and eighty-two have been killed by Israeli forces. Five Israelis have been killed in the West Bank, at least one of whom was a civilian.
On October 9th, settlers sent a picture on Facebook to people in Qusra, a few miles from Qaryut, of masked men holding axes, clubs, a gas can, and a chainsaw, with text that read, “To all the rats in the sewers of Qusra village, we are waiting for you and we will not feel sorry for you. The day of revenge is coming.” Two days later, at the edge of the village, settlers lit utility poles on fire and tried to break into a house. For a half hour, a family huddled inside; then young men from the village arrived and threw rocks at the Israelis. Ma’amar drove over in his ambulance. At that point, the settlers started shooting. A man handed Ma’amar a six-year-old girl who had been shot. As the man walked away, he was shot and killed. When Ma’amar sped off, he said, settlers fired on his ambulance. Three Palestinians were killed, one of them the son of a man who had been killed by settlers in 2017. Then the Israeli Army stormed the village and killed a thirteen-year-old boy.
The next day, Hani Odeh, the mayor of Qusra, arranged for a procession to transport the bodies from the hospital to the village. Ma’amar took one of them in his ambulance. The I.D.F. dictated the route, then directed mourners to change course to avoid settlers. But dozens of settlers blocked the road and stoned the procession anyway. “I got out and talked to the Israeli commander, begging him to make the settlers leave,” Odeh said. “He told me to turn around.” The settlers killed a sixty-two-year-old man and his twenty-five-year-old son.
They can’t just continue to unleash the settlers on us like that,” Odeh told me. “My generation has always tried to reason with our youth, but they can no longer take it, so what am I to do? People like me, who advocated for peace their whole lives—we are not respected anymore. They say what did Abu Mazen”—Mahmoud Abbas, the president of the Palestinian Authority—“ever do for us? And they’re right. He keeps asking people to protest peacefully. Peacefully? There’s nothing peaceful about the situation we’re in.”
Reading this, and thinking back on how so many try to label criticism of Israel as inherently “anti-semitic” or to blame hostility toward Israelis as unfair, born of some innate hatred of Jews, etc. …
No. THIS and so many similar situations that Israel engages in every day is why there is hostility toward Israel today, and toward supporters of Israel today. This isn’t about all Jewish people. This is about toxic, malignant Zionism.
Many Jewish people agree with you and are absolutely sickened by Israel's atrocities. This makes it quite clear that you are right. There is nothing antisemitic about standing up against, as you say, "toxic, malignant Zionism." It is the "toxic, malignant Zionists" who try to throw up a smokescreen by screaming about "antisemitism" when anyone draws attention to Israel's war crimes and unacceptable behavior. People are fed up with this cheap and underhanded trick.
Azerbaijan demanded yesterday that Armenia gives up 4 villages immediately. This is after expelling 1.6 million Armenians in September. Where are the threads, the protests, the condemnation of toxic, malignant Azerbaijanism? No? Nothing? Pakistan is expelling its 20 million Afghan refugees and leveling their refugee camps? Still no condemnation of toxic malignant Pakistanianism? Muslim countries can do whatever? We only have condemnation for the one Jewish country?
Why don’t you make threads about it?
Deflection deflection deflection
Threads were made they don’t generate any interest at all. Because the lives of Armenians, Kurds, Afghans don’t matter unless there is Israel involved.
The US cares more about where our money is disproportionately going to compared to other nations and that’s fair for us to have more investment in where we have more investment
The ukraine thread is 473 pages and we spent billions there. The Gaza war thread is almost 2 thousand pages long. Interestingly the thread started on October 7th and was titled “looks like another Gaza war has started” instead of something like “Hamas terrorists infiltrate Israel and kill hundreds”
To be honest I think we should not be supportu g Ukraine with weapons. However, can’t you see the key difference?
In Ukraine we are supporting the country being attacked
In Gaza we are aiding a country to attack and starve others.
You remember how Hamas went into Israel and raped and murdered innocent civilians? Or how Hamas fired thousands and thousands of rockets into Israel, and continues to fire rockets into Israel?
So now maybe you can see how wrong your assertion that Israel is attacking and starving others is just flat out wrong.
I did not forget. I’m talking about the here and now. In the here and now Israel is killing and starving people. I think they should stop.
If Hamas was repeating 10/7 I would wish they would stop. But that was a one time (horrific) event.
Anonymous wrote:The first time that Ma’amar witnessed settler violence was in 1996. It was in the wake of the first election to Prime Minister of Benjamin Netanyahu, who was intent on blocking any progress toward a two-state solution. Shilo took even more land from Qaryut, to make a vineyard. The village staged a protest, which Ma’amar filmed. The Army and settlers rushed in, firing shots into the air, and settlers beat people and tried to take cameras from anyone documenting the scene. An Israeli court ruled that the land should be returned to Qaryut, but Ma’amar said that settlers continued to attack people who approached, so the land was effectively lost.
In the years that followed, settlers put up tents, then mobile homes, on hilltops. Settlements are mostly considered illegal under international law, but these outposts were illegal even under Israeli law. Still, the government did little to dissuade the hilltop settlers, who viewed themselves as pioneers. The outposts were quickly connected to larger settlements by water systems, power lines, and paved roads. In time, a corridor of settlement took shape, slicing across the West Bank until the map looked more and more like the one envisioned by many settlers and political leaders, in which Palestinians would live in small and disconnected territories within an expanded Israel. Qaryut sat right in the corridor’s path; there were now eight official settlements and at least eleven smaller outposts in a five-mile radius of the village. “Without international and legal pressure on the Israelis, Qaryut will disappear,” Ma’amar said.
In November, 2022, Netanyahu won reëlection for the sixth time. To form a governing coalition, he allied with leaders of far-right parties, including Itamar Ben-Gvir and Bezalel Smotrich, who advocate for annexing the West Bank. Since then, the situation there has grown dramatically worse. In the first nine months of 2023, Ma’amar filed about seventy police reports of settler violence. In February, while he was driving an ambulance to pick up people injured in an attack, settlers smashed his windows and tried to burn the vehicle. In June, Palestinian gunmen killed four settlers near Eli; the next day, hundreds of settlers descended on Turmus Aya, a nearby village, shooting residents and burning cars and houses, some with people inside. By September, 2023, the United Nations was documenting around three settler-related incidents each day, the highest since it had started tracking the trend, in 2006, and eleven hundred Palestinians in the West Bank had been displaced.
Since October 7th, when Hamas-led fighters broke through the fence on Gaza’s border with Israel and killed some twelve hundred people and took some two hundred and fifty hostages, attacks near Qaryut have become routine. Settlers have burned cars and houses, blockaded roads, damaged electricity networks, seized farmland, severed irrigation lines, attacked people in their fields and olive groves, and killed, all without repercussion. Ma’amar told me that a thousand acres had been cut off from Qaryut. The U.N. has recorded five hundred and seventy-three attacks by settlers in the West Bank since the war began, with Israeli forces accompanying them half the time. At least nine people have been killed by settlers, and three hundred and eighty-two have been killed by Israeli forces. Five Israelis have been killed in the West Bank, at least one of whom was a civilian.
On October 9th, settlers sent a picture on Facebook to people in Qusra, a few miles from Qaryut, of masked men holding axes, clubs, a gas can, and a chainsaw, with text that read, “To all the rats in the sewers of Qusra village, we are waiting for you and we will not feel sorry for you. The day of revenge is coming.” Two days later, at the edge of the village, settlers lit utility poles on fire and tried to break into a house. For a half hour, a family huddled inside; then young men from the village arrived and threw rocks at the Israelis. Ma’amar drove over in his ambulance. At that point, the settlers started shooting. A man handed Ma’amar a six-year-old girl who had been shot. As the man walked away, he was shot and killed. When Ma’amar sped off, he said, settlers fired on his ambulance. Three Palestinians were killed, one of them the son of a man who had been killed by settlers in 2017. Then the Israeli Army stormed the village and killed a thirteen-year-old boy.
The next day, Hani Odeh, the mayor of Qusra, arranged for a procession to transport the bodies from the hospital to the village. Ma’amar took one of them in his ambulance. The I.D.F. dictated the route, then directed mourners to change course to avoid settlers. But dozens of settlers blocked the road and stoned the procession anyway. “I got out and talked to the Israeli commander, begging him to make the settlers leave,” Odeh said. “He told me to turn around.” The settlers killed a sixty-two-year-old man and his twenty-five-year-old son.
They can’t just continue to unleash the settlers on us like that,” Odeh told me. “My generation has always tried to reason with our youth, but they can no longer take it, so what am I to do? People like me, who advocated for peace their whole lives—we are not respected anymore. They say what did Abu Mazen”—Mahmoud Abbas, the president of the Palestinian Authority—“ever do for us? And they’re right. He keeps asking people to protest peacefully. Peacefully? There’s nothing peaceful about the situation we’re in.”
Reading this, and thinking back on how so many try to label criticism of Israel as inherently “anti-semitic” or to blame hostility toward Israelis as unfair, born of some innate hatred of Jews, etc. …
No. THIS and so many similar situations that Israel engages in every day is why there is hostility toward Israel today, and toward supporters of Israel today. This isn’t about all Jewish people. This is about toxic, malignant Zionism.
Many Jewish people agree with you and are absolutely sickened by Israel's atrocities. This makes it quite clear that you are right. There is nothing antisemitic about standing up against, as you say, "toxic, malignant Zionism." It is the "toxic, malignant Zionists" who try to throw up a smokescreen by screaming about "antisemitism" when anyone draws attention to Israel's war crimes and unacceptable behavior. People are fed up with this cheap and underhanded trick.
Azerbaijan demanded yesterday that Armenia gives up 4 villages immediately. This is after expelling 1.6 million Armenians in September. Where are the threads, the protests, the condemnation of toxic, malignant Azerbaijanism? No? Nothing? Pakistan is expelling its 20 million Afghan refugees and leveling their refugee camps? Still no condemnation of toxic malignant Pakistanianism? Muslim countries can do whatever? We only have condemnation for the one Jewish country?
Why don’t you make threads about it?
Deflection deflection deflection
Threads were made they don’t generate any interest at all. Because the lives of Armenians, Kurds, Afghans don’t matter unless there is Israel involved.
The US cares more about where our money is disproportionately going to compared to other nations and that’s fair for us to have more investment in where we have more investment
The ukraine thread is 473 pages and we spent billions there. The Gaza war thread is almost 2 thousand pages long. Interestingly the thread started on October 7th and was titled “looks like another Gaza war has started” instead of something like “Hamas terrorists infiltrate Israel and kill hundreds”
To be honest I think we should not be supportu g Ukraine with weapons. However, can’t you see the key difference?
In Ukraine we are supporting the country being attacked
In Gaza we are aiding a country to attack and starve others.
You remember how Hamas went into Israel and raped and murdered innocent civilians? Or how Hamas fired thousands and thousands of rockets into Israel, and continues to fire rockets into Israel?
So now maybe you can see how wrong your assertion that Israel is attacking and starving others is just flat out wrong.
I did not forget. I’m talking about the here and now. In the here and now Israel is killing and starving people. I think they should stop.
If Hamas was repeating 10/7 I would wish they would stop. But that was a one time (horrific) event.
wow
you know they still have the hostages, right? and won't even say which ones are alive or dead?
They have been bombing Israel on stop since 10/7. It’s oddly not covered in the news that there are steady missiles heading to Israel every day. The news makes it seem as if all the aggression is in one direction. It’s bizarre. When they report on the north that make it seem as if Israel is instigating hezbollah. It’s all so weird.
Anonymous wrote:They have been bombing Israel on stop since 10/7. It’s oddly not covered in the news that there are steady missiles heading to Israel every day. The news makes it seem as if all the aggression is in one direction. It’s bizarre. When they report on the north that make it seem as if Israel is instigating hezbollah. It’s all so weird.
Anonymous wrote:The first time that Ma’amar witnessed settler violence was in 1996. It was in the wake of the first election to Prime Minister of Benjamin Netanyahu, who was intent on blocking any progress toward a two-state solution. Shilo took even more land from Qaryut, to make a vineyard. The village staged a protest, which Ma’amar filmed. The Army and settlers rushed in, firing shots into the air, and settlers beat people and tried to take cameras from anyone documenting the scene. An Israeli court ruled that the land should be returned to Qaryut, but Ma’amar said that settlers continued to attack people who approached, so the land was effectively lost.
In the years that followed, settlers put up tents, then mobile homes, on hilltops. Settlements are mostly considered illegal under international law, but these outposts were illegal even under Israeli law. Still, the government did little to dissuade the hilltop settlers, who viewed themselves as pioneers. The outposts were quickly connected to larger settlements by water systems, power lines, and paved roads. In time, a corridor of settlement took shape, slicing across the West Bank until the map looked more and more like the one envisioned by many settlers and political leaders, in which Palestinians would live in small and disconnected territories within an expanded Israel. Qaryut sat right in the corridor’s path; there were now eight official settlements and at least eleven smaller outposts in a five-mile radius of the village. “Without international and legal pressure on the Israelis, Qaryut will disappear,” Ma’amar said.
In November, 2022, Netanyahu won reëlection for the sixth time. To form a governing coalition, he allied with leaders of far-right parties, including Itamar Ben-Gvir and Bezalel Smotrich, who advocate for annexing the West Bank. Since then, the situation there has grown dramatically worse. In the first nine months of 2023, Ma’amar filed about seventy police reports of settler violence. In February, while he was driving an ambulance to pick up people injured in an attack, settlers smashed his windows and tried to burn the vehicle. In June, Palestinian gunmen killed four settlers near Eli; the next day, hundreds of settlers descended on Turmus Aya, a nearby village, shooting residents and burning cars and houses, some with people inside. By September, 2023, the United Nations was documenting around three settler-related incidents each day, the highest since it had started tracking the trend, in 2006, and eleven hundred Palestinians in the West Bank had been displaced.
Since October 7th, when Hamas-led fighters broke through the fence on Gaza’s border with Israel and killed some twelve hundred people and took some two hundred and fifty hostages, attacks near Qaryut have become routine. Settlers have burned cars and houses, blockaded roads, damaged electricity networks, seized farmland, severed irrigation lines, attacked people in their fields and olive groves, and killed, all without repercussion. Ma’amar told me that a thousand acres had been cut off from Qaryut. The U.N. has recorded five hundred and seventy-three attacks by settlers in the West Bank since the war began, with Israeli forces accompanying them half the time. At least nine people have been killed by settlers, and three hundred and eighty-two have been killed by Israeli forces. Five Israelis have been killed in the West Bank, at least one of whom was a civilian.
On October 9th, settlers sent a picture on Facebook to people in Qusra, a few miles from Qaryut, of masked men holding axes, clubs, a gas can, and a chainsaw, with text that read, “To all the rats in the sewers of Qusra village, we are waiting for you and we will not feel sorry for you. The day of revenge is coming.” Two days later, at the edge of the village, settlers lit utility poles on fire and tried to break into a house. For a half hour, a family huddled inside; then young men from the village arrived and threw rocks at the Israelis. Ma’amar drove over in his ambulance. At that point, the settlers started shooting. A man handed Ma’amar a six-year-old girl who had been shot. As the man walked away, he was shot and killed. When Ma’amar sped off, he said, settlers fired on his ambulance. Three Palestinians were killed, one of them the son of a man who had been killed by settlers in 2017. Then the Israeli Army stormed the village and killed a thirteen-year-old boy.
The next day, Hani Odeh, the mayor of Qusra, arranged for a procession to transport the bodies from the hospital to the village. Ma’amar took one of them in his ambulance. The I.D.F. dictated the route, then directed mourners to change course to avoid settlers. But dozens of settlers blocked the road and stoned the procession anyway. “I got out and talked to the Israeli commander, begging him to make the settlers leave,” Odeh said. “He told me to turn around.” The settlers killed a sixty-two-year-old man and his twenty-five-year-old son.
They can’t just continue to unleash the settlers on us like that,” Odeh told me. “My generation has always tried to reason with our youth, but they can no longer take it, so what am I to do? People like me, who advocated for peace their whole lives—we are not respected anymore. They say what did Abu Mazen”—Mahmoud Abbas, the president of the Palestinian Authority—“ever do for us? And they’re right. He keeps asking people to protest peacefully. Peacefully? There’s nothing peaceful about the situation we’re in.”
Reading this, and thinking back on how so many try to label criticism of Israel as inherently “anti-semitic” or to blame hostility toward Israelis as unfair, born of some innate hatred of Jews, etc. …
No. THIS and so many similar situations that Israel engages in every day is why there is hostility toward Israel today, and toward supporters of Israel today. This isn’t about all Jewish people. This is about toxic, malignant Zionism.
Many Jewish people agree with you and are absolutely sickened by Israel's atrocities. This makes it quite clear that you are right. There is nothing antisemitic about standing up against, as you say, "toxic, malignant Zionism." It is the "toxic, malignant Zionists" who try to throw up a smokescreen by screaming about "antisemitism" when anyone draws attention to Israel's war crimes and unacceptable behavior. People are fed up with this cheap and underhanded trick.
Azerbaijan demanded yesterday that Armenia gives up 4 villages immediately. This is after expelling 1.6 million Armenians in September. Where are the threads, the protests, the condemnation of toxic, malignant Azerbaijanism? No? Nothing? Pakistan is expelling its 20 million Afghan refugees and leveling their refugee camps? Still no condemnation of toxic malignant Pakistanianism? Muslim countries can do whatever? We only have condemnation for the one Jewish country?
LOL funny you should bring up Azerbaijan, who expelled 1.6 million Armenians from their ancestral lands using Israeli-supplied weapons. Azerbaijan is one of Israel's best customers. And it's not like Israel didn't know what Azeris do with their weapons. Okay. Just the moralest.
Israel hates Armenians. They have a stupid genocide Olympics going on among themselves where Armenians are jealous they don’t get the reparations Jews got for the Holocaust .
Anti Semitism is also bigger in Christian Armenia than it is in Muslim Azerbaijan . The Armenian nickname for Jews is soap.
The truth is Israel is on the side of any Christian genocides from ISIS or Azerbaijan or others in the region . It’s no surprise they are arming Azerbaijan just like they armed ISIS as well.
The Orthodox Christians in the region are not like Evangelical Christians here. They do not like Israel
This poster is spot on. The dynamics seem weird at first glance (Israel supporting the Muslim Azerbaijani side) but, yes, it’s exactly how the PP says.
Why didn’t Saudis invade Israel with the Arabs in 1948 and 1973? They were secretly helping Israeli troops against the pro Russian leftist governments of Gamal Abdel Nasser of Egypt and Syrias president .
You've been getting se slightly suspect info.
1948 would have been about internal monarchical families machinations. The British gave Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Iraq to a set of brothers.
As for 1956, 1967, and 1973, it would be more accurate to call them the Nasser Wars since they weren't really about the Palestinians.
Nasser himself was famously non-aligned and one of the leaders of the Non-Aligned Movement. He played both Cold War sides off each other. The 1956 war was actually instigated by the British and French because he was threatening to nationalize the Suez Canal in order to pay for the Aswan High Dam. He had alternately tried to get the Americans and Soviets to pay for it but both had gotten tired of his games.
But Nasser wasn't only non-aligned he was more widely known as a staunch secular Arab nationalist that was seeking to unite the Arab world and abolish the monarchies. He had even convinced Syria and Yemen to join him in a United Arab Republic. Thus, Nasser was the biggest threat to Saudi Arabia.
Nasser was an existential and legitimate military threat to both the Israelis and Saudis. His explicit goal was to unite all Arab lands, including Palestine, and abolish the Islamic monarchies. But he failed because both his beliefs and his actions were flawed.
Heck the Arabs only invaded in 1973 to try and save face after the pantsing of 1967.
Frankly, it wasn't until the rise of the PLO following the wars that the Palestinians had any say in anything.
The PLO was a failure. They tried to overthrow the Jordanian monarchy and failed at a terrorist plot at the Olympics -none of their actions ever hurt Israel at all. Hamas is the only real formidable Palestinian government and army and Israel knows it too.
Yasser Arafat was never a fighter. He was an Egyptian born permanent politician and old school Arab loyalist. He told the Palestinians not to learn Hebrew because they would lose their Arab culture. Dumb move.
Hamas mandates Gazan kids learn Hebrew in primary school along with learning English. A Child in Gaza is learning Hebrew right now even in the camps. That may sound like not a big deal but it is. They have become what the Israeli army used to be: multilingual . Hamas doesn’t care about Pan Arabism or tribalism . They have made friends with Erdogan and Iran and don’t care what their “Arab brothers” have to say about it. Yasser Arafat and the PLO wasted years thinking Arabs would come to the Palestinians rescue lol. Hamas understands there’s no such thing as Arab solidarity or brotherhood and no Arab is going to invade Israel again to “save the Palestinians”. They will align with anybody (Putin, Iran, even fellow Israelis) to take down Israel. They really do not care
That's neither here nor there. I was talking about the wars. None of which were really about the Palestinians. Before the PLO there wasn't a unified Palestinian proto-government or leadership organization. That's the dirty little secret, the Palestinians didn't gave anyone to accept or reject the UN partition plan.
During WW1 the British promised the Hashemite monarchy the entire middle east in exchange for revolting against the Ottomans. Those are the events of Lawrence of Arabia. After WW1 the British reneged on their promise and kept Palestine for themselves, while also promosing it to the Zionists, and gave Syria/Lebanon to the French. Then after the Hashemites complained the British supported the Saudis/Wahhabis who then attacked the Hashemites and won, creating the Saudi Arabia we know today.
The rest of the wars were about Nasser except for 1982 which was part of the Lebanese Civil War. The Palestinians and the Palestinian issue were always secondary.
Anonymous wrote:They have been bombing Israel on stop since 10/7. It’s oddly not covered in the news that there are steady missiles heading to Israel every day. The news makes it seem as if all the aggression is in one direction. It’s bizarre. When they report on the north that make it seem as if Israel is instigating hezbollah. It’s all so weird.
Anonymous wrote:They have been bombing Israel on stop since 10/7. It’s oddly not covered in the news that there are steady missiles heading to Israel every day. The news makes it seem as if all the aggression is in one direction. It’s bizarre. When they report on the north that make it seem as if Israel is instigating hezbollah. It’s all so weird.
It’s not weird. They did instigate Hezbollah. The Israeli ground troops went to Lebanon first before going to Gaza then quickly retreated then went to Gaza. They struck first in Lebanon for whatever reasons even though they know the hostages are not in Lebanon and Hezbollah had nothing to do with 10/7.
As for rockets, they haven’t killed any Israelis as Israel has an Iron Dome to protect itself from air assaults. Lebanon and Gaza don’t have that
Anonymous wrote:They have been bombing Israel on stop since 10/7. It’s oddly not covered in the news that there are steady missiles heading to Israel every day. The news makes it seem as if all the aggression is in one direction. It’s bizarre. When they report on the north that make it seem as if Israel is instigating hezbollah. It’s all so weird.
It’s only weird in that Israel has killed over 30,000 people in around 5 months (injured tens of thousands, and destroyed the homes and livelihoods of hundreds of thousands), the majority of whom are non-combative civilians - WHILE NOT A SINGLE NON-COMBATIVE ISRAELI CIVILIAN HAS BEEN INJURED, MUCH LESS KILLED, DURING THAT SAME TIMEFRAME.
And yes, Israeli is provoking in the North, which is a continuation of decades of provocation to justify land grabs.
You don’t have to wake up and face facts, but don’t expect others to believe your horseshit lies.
Anonymous wrote:The first time that Ma’amar witnessed settler violence was in 1996. It was in the wake of the first election to Prime Minister of Benjamin Netanyahu, who was intent on blocking any progress toward a two-state solution. Shilo took even more land from Qaryut, to make a vineyard. The village staged a protest, which Ma’amar filmed. The Army and settlers rushed in, firing shots into the air, and settlers beat people and tried to take cameras from anyone documenting the scene. An Israeli court ruled that the land should be returned to Qaryut, but Ma’amar said that settlers continued to attack people who approached, so the land was effectively lost.
In the years that followed, settlers put up tents, then mobile homes, on hilltops. Settlements are mostly considered illegal under international law, but these outposts were illegal even under Israeli law. Still, the government did little to dissuade the hilltop settlers, who viewed themselves as pioneers. The outposts were quickly connected to larger settlements by water systems, power lines, and paved roads. In time, a corridor of settlement took shape, slicing across the West Bank until the map looked more and more like the one envisioned by many settlers and political leaders, in which Palestinians would live in small and disconnected territories within an expanded Israel. Qaryut sat right in the corridor’s path; there were now eight official settlements and at least eleven smaller outposts in a five-mile radius of the village. “Without international and legal pressure on the Israelis, Qaryut will disappear,” Ma’amar said.
In November, 2022, Netanyahu won reëlection for the sixth time. To form a governing coalition, he allied with leaders of far-right parties, including Itamar Ben-Gvir and Bezalel Smotrich, who advocate for annexing the West Bank. Since then, the situation there has grown dramatically worse. In the first nine months of 2023, Ma’amar filed about seventy police reports of settler violence. In February, while he was driving an ambulance to pick up people injured in an attack, settlers smashed his windows and tried to burn the vehicle. In June, Palestinian gunmen killed four settlers near Eli; the next day, hundreds of settlers descended on Turmus Aya, a nearby village, shooting residents and burning cars and houses, some with people inside. By September, 2023, the United Nations was documenting around three settler-related incidents each day, the highest since it had started tracking the trend, in 2006, and eleven hundred Palestinians in the West Bank had been displaced.
Since October 7th, when Hamas-led fighters broke through the fence on Gaza’s border with Israel and killed some twelve hundred people and took some two hundred and fifty hostages, attacks near Qaryut have become routine. Settlers have burned cars and houses, blockaded roads, damaged electricity networks, seized farmland, severed irrigation lines, attacked people in their fields and olive groves, and killed, all without repercussion. Ma’amar told me that a thousand acres had been cut off from Qaryut. The U.N. has recorded five hundred and seventy-three attacks by settlers in the West Bank since the war began, with Israeli forces accompanying them half the time. At least nine people have been killed by settlers, and three hundred and eighty-two have been killed by Israeli forces. Five Israelis have been killed in the West Bank, at least one of whom was a civilian.
On October 9th, settlers sent a picture on Facebook to people in Qusra, a few miles from Qaryut, of masked men holding axes, clubs, a gas can, and a chainsaw, with text that read, “To all the rats in the sewers of Qusra village, we are waiting for you and we will not feel sorry for you. The day of revenge is coming.” Two days later, at the edge of the village, settlers lit utility poles on fire and tried to break into a house. For a half hour, a family huddled inside; then young men from the village arrived and threw rocks at the Israelis. Ma’amar drove over in his ambulance. At that point, the settlers started shooting. A man handed Ma’amar a six-year-old girl who had been shot. As the man walked away, he was shot and killed. When Ma’amar sped off, he said, settlers fired on his ambulance. Three Palestinians were killed, one of them the son of a man who had been killed by settlers in 2017. Then the Israeli Army stormed the village and killed a thirteen-year-old boy.
The next day, Hani Odeh, the mayor of Qusra, arranged for a procession to transport the bodies from the hospital to the village. Ma’amar took one of them in his ambulance. The I.D.F. dictated the route, then directed mourners to change course to avoid settlers. But dozens of settlers blocked the road and stoned the procession anyway. “I got out and talked to the Israeli commander, begging him to make the settlers leave,” Odeh said. “He told me to turn around.” The settlers killed a sixty-two-year-old man and his twenty-five-year-old son.
They can’t just continue to unleash the settlers on us like that,” Odeh told me. “My generation has always tried to reason with our youth, but they can no longer take it, so what am I to do? People like me, who advocated for peace their whole lives—we are not respected anymore. They say what did Abu Mazen”—Mahmoud Abbas, the president of the Palestinian Authority—“ever do for us? And they’re right. He keeps asking people to protest peacefully. Peacefully? There’s nothing peaceful about the situation we’re in.”
Reading this, and thinking back on how so many try to label criticism of Israel as inherently “anti-semitic” or to blame hostility toward Israelis as unfair, born of some innate hatred of Jews, etc. …
No. THIS and so many similar situations that Israel engages in every day is why there is hostility toward Israel today, and toward supporters of Israel today. This isn’t about all Jewish people. This is about toxic, malignant Zionism.
Many Jewish people agree with you and are absolutely sickened by Israel's atrocities. This makes it quite clear that you are right. There is nothing antisemitic about standing up against, as you say, "toxic, malignant Zionism." It is the "toxic, malignant Zionists" who try to throw up a smokescreen by screaming about "antisemitism" when anyone draws attention to Israel's war crimes and unacceptable behavior. People are fed up with this cheap and underhanded trick.
Azerbaijan demanded yesterday that Armenia gives up 4 villages immediately. This is after expelling 1.6 million Armenians in September. Where are the threads, the protests, the condemnation of toxic, malignant Azerbaijanism? No? Nothing? Pakistan is expelling its 20 million Afghan refugees and leveling their refugee camps? Still no condemnation of toxic malignant Pakistanianism? Muslim countries can do whatever? We only have condemnation for the one Jewish country?
LOL funny you should bring up Azerbaijan, who expelled 1.6 million Armenians from their ancestral lands using Israeli-supplied weapons. Azerbaijan is one of Israel's best customers. And it's not like Israel didn't know what Azeris do with their weapons. Okay. Just the moralest.
Israel hates Armenians. They have a stupid genocide Olympics going on among themselves where Armenians are jealous they don’t get the reparations Jews got for the Holocaust .
Anti Semitism is also bigger in Christian Armenia than it is in Muslim Azerbaijan . The Armenian nickname for Jews is soap.
The truth is Israel is on the side of any Christian genocides from ISIS or Azerbaijan or others in the region . It’s no surprise they are arming Azerbaijan just like they armed ISIS as well.
The Orthodox Christians in the region are not like Evangelical Christians here. They do not like Israel
This poster is spot on. The dynamics seem weird at first glance (Israel supporting the Muslim Azerbaijani side) but, yes, it’s exactly how the PP says.
Why didn’t Saudis invade Israel with the Arabs in 1948 and 1973? They were secretly helping Israeli troops against the pro Russian leftist governments of Gamal Abdel Nasser of Egypt and Syrias president .
You've been getting se slightly suspect info.
1948 would have been about internal monarchical families machinations. The British gave Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Iraq to a set of brothers.
As for 1956, 1967, and 1973, it would be more accurate to call them the Nasser Wars since they weren't really about the Palestinians.
Nasser himself was famously non-aligned and one of the leaders of the Non-Aligned Movement. He played both Cold War sides off each other. The 1956 war was actually instigated by the British and French because he was threatening to nationalize the Suez Canal in order to pay for the Aswan High Dam. He had alternately tried to get the Americans and Soviets to pay for it but both had gotten tired of his games.
But Nasser wasn't only non-aligned he was more widely known as a staunch secular Arab nationalist that was seeking to unite the Arab world and abolish the monarchies. He had even convinced Syria and Yemen to join him in a United Arab Republic. Thus, Nasser was the biggest threat to Saudi Arabia.
Nasser was an existential and legitimate military threat to both the Israelis and Saudis. His explicit goal was to unite all Arab lands, including Palestine, and abolish the Islamic monarchies. But he failed because both his beliefs and his actions were flawed.
Heck the Arabs only invaded in 1973 to try and save face after the pantsing of 1967.
Frankly, it wasn't until the rise of the PLO following the wars that the Palestinians had any say in anything.
The PLO was a failure. They tried to overthrow the Jordanian monarchy and failed at a terrorist plot at the Olympics -none of their actions ever hurt Israel at all. Hamas is the only real formidable Palestinian government and army and Israel knows it too.
Yasser Arafat was never a fighter. He was an Egyptian born permanent politician and old school Arab loyalist. He told the Palestinians not to learn Hebrew because they would lose their Arab culture. Dumb move.
Hamas mandates Gazan kids learn Hebrew in primary school along with learning English. A Child in Gaza is learning Hebrew right now even in the camps. That may sound like not a big deal but it is. They have become what the Israeli army used to be: multilingual . Hamas doesn’t care about Pan Arabism or tribalism . They have made friends with Erdogan and Iran and don’t care what their “Arab brothers” have to say about it. Yasser Arafat and the PLO wasted years thinking Arabs would come to the Palestinians rescue lol. Hamas understands there’s no such thing as Arab solidarity or brotherhood and no Arab is going to invade Israel again to “save the Palestinians”. They will align with anybody (Putin, Iran, even fellow Israelis) to take down Israel. They really do not care
That's neither here nor there. I was talking about the wars. None of which were really about the Palestinians. Before the PLO there wasn't a unified Palestinian proto-government or leadership organization. That's the dirty little secret, the Palestinians didn't gave anyone to accept or reject the UN partition plan.
During WW1 the British promised the Hashemite monarchy the entire middle east in exchange for revolting against the Ottomans. Those are the events of Lawrence of Arabia. After WW1 the British reneged on their promise and kept Palestine for themselves, while also promosing it to the Zionists, and gave Syria/Lebanon to the French. Then after the Hashemites complained the British supported the Saudis/Wahhabis who then attacked the Hashemites and won, creating the Saudi Arabia we know today.
The rest of the wars were about Nasser except for 1982 which was part of the Lebanese Civil War. The Palestinians and the Palestinian issue were always secondary.
I think to make the Palestinian issue secondary is completely underestimating those wars. The Palestinian issue was the only cornerstone of Arab Israeli conflict and wars. They may have been fought by Egyptians , Jordanians, and Syrians and non Palestinians since they didn’t have a country or army but it certainly wasn’t because Israel did anything to Syria or Egypt directly .
It was absolutely for the Palestinians.
Nasser grew up in Egypt in a rather Jewish neighborhood . He was very liberal, oriented to the Soviets and would’ve actually in a perfect world been great friends with his Israeli counterparts and he been said so . Same with Syria . The day Arabs invaded in 1948 was the day Israel declared Independence on May 15. The first war was definitely about Palestinians .
There was an idea that Israel was small and three-four Arab countries would be enough to fight them but Israel was the underdog back then and won .
The second war in 1967 was about fixing the humilation of the first war but that also failed even worse than the first war . It led to Palestinians losing more territory and a nasty blame game came out where Palestinians blamed the Arabs for starting the war , making them lose more territory and more people . After that, Arabs started to wash hands of the whole thing and stop fighting for Palestinians and started working with Israel secretly.
Egyptians were the only ones who had their own legitimate spat with Israel over the Sinai and pushed back with a quite successful Yom Kippur invasion in 1973.
After that, Israel and Egypt make peace at Camp David and Egypts president get assassinated by an Egyptian Islamist extremist for recognizing Israel as a partner for peace . That scared any other Arab leader to recognize Israel but Arafat still took that with Oslo Accords in 1993. Despite everyone predicting his death and his fears, it was Rabin who got assasinated by a Jewish extremist .
This Palestinian Israel issue is very sensitive and deadly to all involved and has been the albatross over the regions head for decades. Nobody knows how to solve it neatly and quietly so everyone is happy
Forum Index
»
Political Discussion
![[Post New]](/jforum/templates/default/images/icon_minipost_new.gif){kind=icon}