Why does VSI have so many faster age group swimmers than PVS?

[Anonymous]

After reading the information posted about LC Zones, I have been looking into swimmer stats/times, rankings etc just out of curiosity - and WOW, the Virginia Swimming LSC has some serious talent (I am looking at 9-10 and 11-12 age groups since that’s where my kids are). I am a little shocked as compared to PVS (where we are), since to be honest I would have assumed the DC metro area would in general have more highly ranked swimmers just due to the availability of clubs/training, money, the competitive nature of the area. I also noticed VSI has faster QTs for their championship meets - does this drive kids to work harder? Is it a difference in coaching/training philosophy? Or just a coincidental concentration of talent? I want to know what they’re doing! Just found the whole thing very interesting.

[Anonymous]

I can’t answer your question but have noticed how fast Virginia seems too - though 9/10 girls held their own at Zones last summer and took first in 3 of 4 relays (since you said you were focusing on that age group).

[Anonymous]

This is anecdotal but I think Virginia missed much less swimming during COVID shutdowns compared to PVS. I think the youngest age groups in PVS are still playing catch up from the seasons of greatly reduced practice time.

[Anonymous]

Tx and co has some fast swimmers

[Anonymous]

NOVA is a powerhouse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NOVA is a powerhouse.

Meaning NOVA the Virginia club, not Northern Virginia area.

[Anonymous]

PP we moved from PVS to VSI with age group swimmers and I think you are right. The championship qualifying times are faster for age group swimmers and I also think there is a different philosophy regarding meets. There are not as many “mini meets”, most meets are just 12&U. My oldest swimmers in PVS never saw a 200 length race until the age of 9, whereas my current 8&u in VSI has swum both a 200 free and 200 IM and regularly swims 100s and will do a 400 free this summer. We were at a meet last month where 10&u did the 400IM and 200s of all strokes. There are also many more prelims/finals meets for 10&u in VSI. I have no idea what the long term impact is, but in the short term it would seem to set a higher bar and provide a different competition experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP we moved from PVS to VSI with age group swimmers and I think you are right. The championship qualifying times are faster for age group swimmers and I also think there is a different philosophy regarding meets. There are not as many “mini meets”, most meets are just 12&U. My oldest swimmers in PVS never saw a 200 length race until the age of 9, whereas my current 8&u in VSI has swum both a 200 free and 200 IM and regularly swims 100s and will do a 400 free this summer. We were at a meet last month where 10&u did the 400IM and 200s of all strokes. There are also many more prelims/finals meets for 10&u in VSI. I have no idea what the long term impact is, but in the short term it would seem to set a higher bar and provide a different competition experience.

Honestly 8 and unders should not be swimming 200s. The training needed to do those events and do them well is way too much for a kid that age and will lead to overuse injuries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP we moved from PVS to VSI with age group swimmers and I think you are right. The championship qualifying times are faster for age group swimmers and I also think there is a different philosophy regarding meets. There are not as many “mini meets”, most meets are just 12&U. My oldest swimmers in PVS never saw a 200 length race until the age of 9, whereas my current 8&u in VSI has swum both a 200 free and 200 IM and regularly swims 100s and will do a 400 free this summer. We were at a meet last month where 10&u did the 400IM and 200s of all strokes. There are also many more prelims/finals meets for 10&u in VSI. I have no idea what the long term impact is, but in the short term it would seem to set a higher bar and provide a different competition experience.

Honestly 8 and unders should not be swimming 200s. The training needed to do those events and do them well is way too much for a kid that age and will lead to overuse injuries.

Not sure I agree with that. My son in VSI (now 10) did the 200 free, 200 IM, 500 free at 8 years old and at that time he was only practicing twice a week and definitely no overuse concerns. In fact, his club is big on not doing too much too soon with training, because they are looking at the long game. For a kid with some talent and athleticism, a 200 is not too much at 8. For some kids it is too much, so they aren’t put in those events.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP we moved from PVS to VSI with age group swimmers and I think you are right. The championship qualifying times are faster for age group swimmers and I also think there is a different philosophy regarding meets. There are not as many “mini meets”, most meets are just 12&U. My oldest swimmers in PVS never saw a 200 length race until the age of 9, whereas my current 8&u in VSI has swum both a 200 free and 200 IM and regularly swims 100s and will do a 400 free this summer. We were at a meet last month where 10&u did the 400IM and 200s of all strokes. There are also many more prelims/finals meets for 10&u in VSI. I have no idea what the long term impact is, but in the short term it would seem to set a higher bar and provide a different competition experience.

Honestly 8 and unders should not be swimming 200s. The training needed to do those events and do them well is way too much for a kid that age and will lead to overuse injuries.

Not sure I agree with that. My son in VSI (now 10) did the 200 free, 200 IM, 500 free at 8 years old and at that time he was only practicing twice a week and definitely no overuse concerns. In fact, his club is big on not doing too much too soon with training, because they are looking at the long game. For a kid with some talent and athleticism, a 200 is not too much at 8. For some kids it is too much, so they aren’t put in those events.

Great for your kid but the idea that the average 8 year old who swims 2x a week can comfortably do a 200 IM or a 500 free is ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP we moved from PVS to VSI with age group swimmers and I think you are right. The championship qualifying times are faster for age group swimmers and I also think there is a different philosophy regarding meets. There are not as many “mini meets”, most meets are just 12&U. My oldest swimmers in PVS never saw a 200 length race until the age of 9, whereas my current 8&u in VSI has swum both a 200 free and 200 IM and regularly swims 100s and will do a 400 free this summer. We were at a meet last month where 10&u did the 400IM and 200s of all strokes. There are also many more prelims/finals meets for 10&u in VSI. I have no idea what the long term impact is, but in the short term it would seem to set a higher bar and provide a different competition experience.

Honestly 8 and unders should not be swimming 200s. The training needed to do those events and do them well is way too much for a kid that age and will lead to overuse injuries.

Not sure I agree with that. My son in VSI (now 10) did the 200 free, 200 IM, 500 free at 8 years old and at that time he was only practicing twice a week and definitely no overuse concerns. In fact, his club is big on not doing too much too soon with training, because they are looking at the long game. For a kid with some talent and athleticism, a 200 is not too much at 8. For some kids it is too much, so they aren’t put in those events.

Great for your kid but the idea that the average 8 year old who swims 2x a week can comfortably do a 200 IM or a 500 free is ridiculous.

+1 that is absurd

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can’t answer your question but have noticed how fast Virginia seems too - though 9/10 girls held their own at Zones last summer and took first in 3 of 4 relays (since you said you were focusing on that age group).

You mean PVS 9/10 girls held their own. They beat Virginia in most of the relays, which doesn’t matter except to say maybe it evens out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can’t answer your question but have noticed how fast Virginia seems too - though 9/10 girls held their own at Zones last summer and took first in 3 of 4 relays (since you said you were focusing on that age group).

You mean PVS 9/10 girls held their own. They beat Virginia in most of the relays, which doesn’t matter except to say maybe it evens out.

Yes but overall it’s still a very noticeable difference year after year with a huge concentration of talent in VSI. Also the VSI boys in particular are phenomenal. It’s not a slight to PVS, just curiosity about training/coaching philosophies and what causes the gap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP we moved from PVS to VSI with age group swimmers and I think you are right. The championship qualifying times are faster for age group swimmers and I also think there is a different philosophy regarding meets. There are not as many “mini meets”, most meets are just 12&U. My oldest swimmers in PVS never saw a 200 length race until the age of 9, whereas my current 8&u in VSI has swum both a 200 free and 200 IM and regularly swims 100s and will do a 400 free this summer. We were at a meet last month where 10&u did the 400IM and 200s of all strokes. There are also many more prelims/finals meets for 10&u in VSI. I have no idea what the long term impact is, but in the short term it would seem to set a higher bar and provide a different competition experience.

Honestly 8 and unders should not be swimming 200s. The training needed to do those events and do them well is way too much for a kid that age and will lead to overuse injuries.

Completely agree. I am an orthopedic surgeon and this made me want to throw up that kid would swim those lengths that young. Short term they might be faster but swimming should be viewed as a long game with the intent to peak well after puberty (not before). Trying too much too young will not have a long term benefit but will have life long injury and pain. I see too many high school and college swimmers with bad shoulders and pain. Those same kids will have debilitating pain at 40 and chronic pain impacts social relationships, family and life in general.

[Anonymous]

When should 200s start? My 11 year old is swimming then and it seems like a lot and I wonder if it is too much too soon?