When parents are only applying to Maret, GDS and Sidwell...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids go to a “top 2” school in a city with two such schools and I’m really confused by what “social climbing” is supposed to mean here. The social life is a bunch of frumpy moms and dad-bod dads with *mostly* similar incomes/wealth to us. It’s not like I’m getting an invitation to yacht with MacKenzie Bezos out of this. Maybe in NYC or LA this would lead to a better/cooler social life but not so much in a city like DC or the city where I am.

Dear, you're not really part of this discussion

NP. Why? Too close to the truth? Not everyone is foaming at the mouth to have a Senator’s grandchild or a second tier hedge fund manager’s progeny in their class. It’s not like LA where my friend had Kerry Washington’s kid in her kid’s class.

Reqd the subject line. Incredibly specific. I’m sure Denver County Day is amazing but it’s irrelevant to NWDC

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We applied to only those three schools for our kids because we wanted a secular, co-ed, K-12 school that was convenient for our location, and those three have the best reputations within that small set of criteria.

Sidwell is not secular.

It’s not Quaker.

My Sidwell enrolled kids would disagree with you, based on their lived experience. Do you attend?

I did. It’s not Quaker. The price tag alone tells you that.

Nah. Sidwell tuition is squarely in line with the tuition of other K-12 Quaker schools that are located *within the city limits* of large East Coast cities. Particularly NYC, Philly, Providence and Baltimore. Baltimore Friends is somewhat less, but of course so are Baltimore homes, salaries, everything. Same for Wilmington Friends, in a city that I just learned from the interwebs is 51% less expensive of a city to live in than Washington DC

I hope you're not thinking of the practically rural SSFS as your point of comparison?

Exactly right. None of these supposedly Quaker schools are actually Quaker. They like to tout their values but their price tags tell the true story. No true Quaker would believe that over $50k/year is in line with the Quaker values of simplicity and care for the Earth. It’s marketing and it works.

Ok, what price should tuition be, then? You have all the answers here, I challenge you to name a specific number. $10,000? $18,000? $100?
Understand that salary and benefits are 65% of a private school budget. So you will want to run a side calculation of how much each teacher will earn and whether they get employer healthcare, disability, etc.

[Anonymous]

Back to topic....

We only applied to1 Big 3 for our kids. I would have applied my older one at a later entry if she didn't get in. The younger ones I knew would get in since we're legacy donors with an older child at the school. I suppose I was just confident they would get in. All scored above 130 on WPPSI (that was back when they tool it for entry). Oh, and we are 2 wealthy professional social nobodies. We dont social climb, what a dumb concept to do that with your children. I feel sorry for kids with those parents. I know they exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The list in the title was exactly our list for a while. We were not interested in STA/Cathedral or other religious schools, and SFS did not seem religious in the same way. Silent meeting is not the same as a chapel service. Well, no one in our family enjoyed Sidwell and we eventually left. Now I'd recommend a longer list that includes friendlier schools. They tend not to be as selective but they're often better in other ways.

I wouldn't say we were social climbers. When we made our original list, we thought we were identifying the three schools that fit the best. We were wrong.

Curious to hear more, if you’re willing to say more. Was the religiousness at all a factor? Maybe we’re outliers, but we found SFS far more religious than we were expecting. And even when it wasn’t religious, we felt like “quaker values” got pulled out anytime anyone disagreed with someone or disliked someone—not dissimilar to “regular” religion Relatedly, our oldest kid hasn’t really enjoyed themselves, but we’re giving it a bit longer. We though some of this came from the quakerism, which kind of put a somberness on everything.

Anyway, we would love to hear more, as we’re struggling with the long-term decision here.

I'm not Quaker but have experience with both Sidwell Friends and Sandy Spring Friends. Quaker values are a far more significant part of student life at Sandy Spring, but I wasn't annoyed by it at all. It seemed very genuine. At Sidwell it didn't always seem sincere because of the social and academic competition that affects so many things there.

On the other hand, there's no denying that Sidwell students get a great college preparatory education surrounded by many bright students. There are some excellent students at Sandy Spring, but I'd estimate that a quarter to a third of Sandy Spring students couldn't handle the intense Sidwell workload. There are a lot of very smart kids at Sidwell and very few weak students there.

If they are all so smart and well prepared - why do so many Sidwell kids end up at mediocre colleges? Yes, understand Harvard isn't going to take all of them but there are a lot each year going to schools ranked outside top 100 or top 200. Don't tell me it's "fit"

This isn’t at all true. About five or six kids a year out of ~130 go to a school that’s listed >100 in USNWR. Two of those will invariably be male athletes

This is for the last five years - I can’t speak to time before that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids go to a “top 2” school in a city with two such schools and I’m really confused by what “social climbing” is supposed to mean here. The social life is a bunch of frumpy moms and dad-bod dads with *mostly* similar incomes/wealth to us. It’s not like I’m getting an invitation to yacht with MacKenzie Bezos out of this. Maybe in NYC or LA this would lead to a better/cooler social life but not so much in a city like DC or the city where I am.

Dear, you're not really part of this discussion

NP. Why? Too close to the truth? Not everyone is foaming at the mouth to have a Senator’s grandchild or a second tier hedge fund manager’s progeny in their class. It’s not like LA where my friend had Kerry Washington’s kid in her kid’s class.

Reqd the subject line. Incredibly specific. I’m sure Denver County Day is amazing but it’s irrelevant to NWDC

This could totally be Dallas or Houston or probably any number of other smaller cities! I think DC, NYC, and LA have a different scene around privates.

[Anonymous]

To the people who say "it's not worth the money " unless you're at SFS, GDS, Market, Cathedral or St. Albans: I'm not sure what you think you're buying.

Those schools definitely do provide a lot more individual attention from teachers and may provide more communal social environments than many public schools, but many other private schools also do that.

If you think you're buying significantly improved college admissions chances, I'm skeptical to say the least. If your kid at age 12 has the kinds of grades and test scores needed to get in at one of those very selective private schools, then your kid will probably have the kinds of grades and test scores needed to get into an Ivy, a NESCAC, or some other highly selective college. There may be some kids who actually would do better applying out of a public high school or a less selective private school because Yale may not want to take 10 percent of the GDS senior class but might be willing to take another kid from Wheaton High. Yes, those selective private schools do very well in college admissions, but they start with a lot of very smart, full-pay kids.

If you think you get great business connections by sending your kid to one of those selective private schools, I think you'll be disappointed. I've never seen much business being transacted at any DC private schools. Maybe I just didn't notice it, but I don't think it happens much.

The same is basically true for less selective private schools. They send fewer kids to very selective colleges, but they started with fewer who had the kinds of scores and grades that would predict future admission to selective colleges. The students who would have been academic stars at SFS, GDS, etc., often get into very selective colleges even if they apply from a less selective private high school. There are plenty of wealthy parents around at all of the private schools. And, unlike most public schools but like the most selective private schools, the less selective private schools do usually offer a lot of individual attention.

We pulled our kids out of Big 3 but went with even smaller private school classes instead of public school. For our kids, we were happy with that choice. The education was great, though less pressured, and the kids were mostly more friendly.

Your mileage may vary.

[Anonymous]

I agree that it's hard to achieve aspects of the stated mission when you charge $50k. But some kids do get financial aid, and wealthy people are capable of leading Quaker lives aren't they?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We applied to only those three schools for our kids because we wanted a secular, co-ed, K-12 school that was convenient for our location, and those three have the best reputations within that small set of criteria.

Sidwell is not secular.

It’s not Quaker.

My Sidwell enrolled kids would disagree with you, based on their lived experience. Do you attend?

I did. It’s not Quaker. The price tag alone tells you that.

Nah. Sidwell tuition is squarely in line with the tuition of other K-12 Quaker schools that are located *within the city limits* of large East Coast cities. Particularly NYC, Philly, Providence and Baltimore. Baltimore Friends is somewhat less, but of course so are Baltimore homes, salaries, everything. Same for Wilmington Friends, in a city that I just learned from the interwebs is 51% less expensive of a city to live in than Washington DC

I hope you're not thinking of the practically rural SSFS as your point of comparison?

Exactly right. None of these supposedly Quaker schools are actually Quaker. They like to tout their values but their price tags tell the true story. No true Quaker would believe that over $50k/year is in line with the Quaker values of simplicity and care for the Earth. It’s marketing and it works.

Ok, what price should tuition be, then? You have all the answers here, I challenge you to name a specific number. $10,000? $18,000? $100?
Understand that salary and benefits are 65% of a private school budget. So you will want to run a side calculation of how much each teacher will earn and whether they get employer healthcare, disability, etc.

We aren’t privy to SFS’s financials but GDS filed a 990. In 2020 it ran a $26m surplus while sitting on $269m of assets. So though I don’t have a number, “much less” is directionally right. But tuition is like an arms race. If they drop it they will be less desirable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The list in the title was exactly our list for a while. We were not interested in STA/Cathedral or other religious schools, and SFS did not seem religious in the same way. Silent meeting is not the same as a chapel service. Well, no one in our family enjoyed Sidwell and we eventually left. Now I'd recommend a longer list that includes friendlier schools. They tend not to be as selective but they're often better in other ways.

I wouldn't say we were social climbers. When we made our original list, we thought we were identifying the three schools that fit the best. We were wrong.

Curious to hear more, if you’re willing to say more. Was the religiousness at all a factor? Maybe we’re outliers, but we found SFS far more religious than we were expecting. And even when it wasn’t religious, we felt like “quaker values” got pulled out anytime anyone disagreed with someone or disliked someone—not dissimilar to “regular” religion Relatedly, our oldest kid hasn’t really enjoyed themselves, but we’re giving it a bit longer. We though some of this came from the quakerism, which kind of put a somberness on everything.

Anyway, we would love to hear more, as we’re struggling with the long-term decision here.

I'm not Quaker but have experience with both Sidwell Friends and Sandy Spring Friends. Quaker values are a far more significant part of student life at Sandy Spring, but I wasn't annoyed by it at all. It seemed very genuine. At Sidwell it didn't always seem sincere because of the social and academic competition that affects so many things there.

On the other hand, there's no denying that Sidwell students get a great college preparatory education surrounded by many bright students. There are some excellent students at Sandy Spring, but I'd estimate that a quarter to a third of Sandy Spring students couldn't handle the intense Sidwell workload. There are a lot of very smart kids at Sidwell and very few weak students there.

If they are all so smart and well prepared - why do so many Sidwell kids end up at mediocre colleges? Yes, understand Harvard isn't going to take all of them but there are a lot each year going to schools ranked outside top 100 or top 200. Don't tell me it's "fit"

This isn’t at all true. About five or six kids a year out of ~130 go to a school that’s listed >100 in USNWR. Two of those will invariably be male athletes

This is for the last five years - I can’t speak to time before that.

Want to be cautious in replying as we are talking about specific young adults colleges here - but colleges like Northeastern, Penn State and Tulane (all common destinations after Sidwell) don't necessarily jump to mind first with image of "very smart kids" who have been "very well prepared". Lots of private LACs too that while in theory are top100 certainly aren't need-blind and a track record of parents paying 50k/yr isn't going to be a disadvantage. Not dunking on Sidwell - clearly best of bunch in this area - just agreeing that either characterization is too rosy or significant negative x-factor coming from one of these privates when it comes to college admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The list in the title was exactly our list for a while. We were not interested in STA/Cathedral or other religious schools, and SFS did not seem religious in the same way. Silent meeting is not the same as a chapel service. Well, no one in our family enjoyed Sidwell and we eventually left. Now I'd recommend a longer list that includes friendlier schools. They tend not to be as selective but they're often better in other ways.

I wouldn't say we were social climbers. When we made our original list, we thought we were identifying the three schools that fit the best. We were wrong.

Curious to hear more, if you’re willing to say more. Was the religiousness at all a factor? Maybe we’re outliers, but we found SFS far more religious than we were expecting. And even when it wasn’t religious, we felt like “quaker values” got pulled out anytime anyone disagreed with someone or disliked someone—not dissimilar to “regular” religion Relatedly, our oldest kid hasn’t really enjoyed themselves, but we’re giving it a bit longer. We though some of this came from the quakerism, which kind of put a somberness on everything.

Anyway, we would love to hear more, as we’re struggling with the long-term decision here.

I'm not Quaker but have experience with both Sidwell Friends and Sandy Spring Friends. Quaker values are a far more significant part of student life at Sandy Spring, but I wasn't annoyed by it at all. It seemed very genuine. At Sidwell it didn't always seem sincere because of the social and academic competition that affects so many things there.

On the other hand, there's no denying that Sidwell students get a great college preparatory education surrounded by many bright students. There are some excellent students at Sandy Spring, but I'd estimate that a quarter to a third of Sandy Spring students couldn't handle the intense Sidwell workload. There are a lot of very smart kids at Sidwell and very few weak students there.

If they are all so smart and well prepared - why do so many Sidwell kids end up at mediocre colleges? Yes, understand Harvard isn't going to take all of them but there are a lot each year going to schools ranked outside top 100 or top 200. Don't tell me it's "fit"

This isn’t at all true. About five or six kids a year out of ~130 go to a school that’s listed >100 in USNWR. Two of those will invariably be male athletes

This is for the last five years - I can’t speak to time before that.

Want to be cautious in replying as we are talking about specific young adults colleges here - but colleges like Northeastern, Penn State and Tulane (all common destinations after Sidwell) don't necessarily jump to mind first with image of "very smart kids" who have been "very well prepared". Lots of private LACs too that while in theory are top100 certainly aren't need-blind and a track record of parents paying 50k/yr isn't going to be a disadvantage. Not dunking on Sidwell - clearly best of bunch in this area - just agreeing that either characterization is too rosy or significant negative x-factor coming from one of these privates when it comes to college admissions.

Tulane has a single digit acceptance rate, is one of a handful of "urban midsized schools" that is generally sought after.
Penn State is a state flagship that for DC residents, like Michigan, Wisconsin, UCLA and Cal, provide an excellent experience, and particularly for those going from Sidwell to do the accelerated joint MD program.
Northeastern is not the Northeastern that we knew when we were looking at colleges in the 1980's and 1990's. The Co-Op program is one of the best in the country.

All three of these schools are well within the "top 100" - so keep dunking somewhere else.

Also, in looking at the lists from the last few years, the smaller PA schools that some of the kids are attending - those are full ride opportunities. Kind of hard to pass up, no?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree that it's hard to achieve aspects of the stated mission when you charge $50k. But some kids do get financial aid, and wealthy people are capable of leading Quaker lives aren't they?

Of course they can. But choosing an institution that states it is about “community and equity” when the community it serves is exclusively beyond wealthy isn’t one of the ways.

[Anonymous]

Tulane acceptance rate quoted is true for this year just -9.75%, but not at all representative. Was 26% acceptance rate for class of 2020 (which includes group being discussed)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Tulane acceptance rate quoted is true for this year just -9.75%, but not at all representative. Was 26% acceptance rate for class of 2020 (which includes group being discussed)

Tulane is ranked 41 by US News. This is somehow a poor college placement? Good grief. PP is out of touch. Tulane is a competitive admit and definitely a school filled with really smart kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids go to a “top 2” school in a city with two such schools and I’m really confused by what “social climbing” is supposed to mean here. The social life is a bunch of frumpy moms and dad-bod dads with *mostly* similar incomes/wealth to us. It’s not like I’m getting an invitation to yacht with MacKenzie Bezos out of this. Maybe in NYC or LA this would lead to a better/cooler social life but not so much in a city like DC or the city where I am.

Dear, you're not really part of this discussion

NP. Why? Too close to the truth? Not everyone is foaming at the mouth to have a Senator’s grandchild or a second tier hedge fund manager’s progeny in their class. It’s not like LA where my friend had Kerry Washington’s kid in her kid’s class.

Reqd the subject line. Incredibly specific. I’m sure Denver County Day is amazing but it’s irrelevant to NWDC

This could totally be Dallas or Houston or probably any number of other smaller cities! I think DC, NYC, and LA have a different scene around privates.

It could also be Chicago (Latin and Lab).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tulane acceptance rate quoted is true for this year just -9.75%, but not at all representative. Was 26% acceptance rate for class of 2020 (which includes group being discussed)

Tulane is ranked 41 by US News. This is somehow a poor college placement? Good grief. PP is out of touch. Tulane is a competitive admit and definitely a school filled with really smart kids.

Tulane parent has entered the chat....

26% admit rate for class of 2020. Basically an Ivy