How much do you think college truly influences the trajectory of someone's life?

[Anonymous]

Sure, happens sometimes. For example, here's a young lady whose life was wrecked by going to Emory.

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/23/education/poor-students-struggle-as-class-plays-a-greater-role-in-success.html

TLDR - don't let your child be on the bottom end of of the SAT distribution at a college, and the more serious the emotional or socioeconomic challenges, the more important it is to be in the top decile.

[Anonymous]

https://www.amazon.com/Where-You-Not-Who-Youll/dp/1455532681/ref=nodl_

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:College had a massive influence on the trajectory of my life, but I'm not typical of the college bound kids whose parents post on this board.

I was a working class kid who was only the second person to earn a bachelor's degree in my family over many generations. I earned two bachelor's, a master's, then a JD.

My college education didn't result in a massive change to my standard of living, as the burden of student loans ate up most of my earnings beyond what I paid basic living expenses (and I lived not a lot better than I did as a student) because I went into public service lawyering (legal aid, then public defense, then prosecution) and earned a modest income. I got some assistance from LRAP at my former law school, but was only chipping away at my student loans when very serious health issues caused me to be forced to leave the practice of law. I'll be repaying my student loans until I die.

I'm an entirely different person than I would have been had I not gone to college. While many aspects of my core personality remain the same (empath, loving, trusting, hopelessly idealistic, down to earth) my world view was very shaped by the knowledge I gained in my university studies, and sadly to some degree alienated me from many members of my immediate family who are very conservative, very anti-intellectual and cannot put politics aside for the sake of family bonds.

I struggle with my feelings about whether I made the right choice going to college. I am certain that had I not gone, I'd be better off financially than I am now and better situated in retirement. I know that might sound absurd to some of you, but it's a truth that many working class/lower middle class kids experience whose parents don't help them with financing college and whose student loan burden often stands as an obstacle to home ownership and even parenthood. I have many peers who did technical programs or associates degrees or apprenticeships or started businesses who own homes, have shiny new cars every few years, have kids, etc. It's frustrating.

On the other hand, where I grew up and the people I knew and associated with - I think I would have been a person with a worldview that from where I stand now I would find sad, if not repugnant. But I'd be blissfully ignorant! So there would be that.

I have a very curious mind and I'm glad I had the opportunity to fill it with so many years of learning and that I continue to be a critical thinker who is still always learning and open-minded about new ideas, new horizons, etc. But it's hard to have one foot in one world and the other in a different world. I really wish I'd been born into a different kind of family, I guess. I do spend a fair amount of time wondering 'what if?', and I wish I could know how my life would have turned out on a different trajectory. I'm not sure that's a normal preoccupation for people whose college experience isn't so intensely transformative as mine was, for the reasons articulated.

Thank you for sharing. The post moved me.

Interesting post that highlights what many on DCUM cannot seem to relate to - sometimes kids don't have parents who will be funding any part of college or grad school. Agree that it's possible to be better off financially with associate's degrees, technical degrees, or apprenticeships. Also, not all lawyers will be landing in Big Law.

True. Many people also live at home and/or work their way through college, which is also fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Strivers have so many absurd misconceptions about elite colleges. If you’re mid pack, let alone bottom quartile, at an “elite” you’re not getting any amazing job offers or into any half decent grad school program. You’ll likely be culled, and land at some lame job working with state schoolers. If you ever go to grad school, it won’t be anywhere impressive and your classmates will know you’re an Ivy washout.

Sort of. Mid pack at an elite gets you lots of places. It is connections and option that you just run into if you are open to them. Bottom I agree.

No, mid-pack UNCONNECTED kids from elite colleges just get normal F500 and Teach for America type of gigs open to anyone from any university. I'm a recruiter, I look at resumes all day long. And when folks look at "elite" state schools, they're not factoring in how large those schools are when they focus on the top 10% grads who go onto amazing careers and grad schools. The (again, UNCONNECTED) bottom 90% or so end up in normal 9-5 jobs.

[Anonymous]

I'm reading The Inequality Machine: How College Divides Us by Paul Tough, & in it, he delves into the research on this specific Q. Apparently, for first gen URM low income students where specifically a student attends undergrad has a really dramatic impact. Tough highlights research that Raj Chetty (of Stanford and now Harvard) did about social mobility and how likely one is to end up in the Top 1% of earners based on the selectivity of college they attended. The difference between an Ivy level & the next tier of schools was significant. You should read the book - it's fascinating & very readable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm reading The Inequality Machine: How College Divides Us by Paul Tough, & in it, he delves into the research on this specific Q. Apparently, for first gen URM low income students where specifically a student attends undergrad has a really dramatic impact. Tough highlights research that Raj Chetty (of Stanford and now Harvard) did about social mobility and how likely one is to end up in the Top 1% of earners based on the selectivity of college they attended. The difference between an Ivy level & the next tier of schools was significant. You should read the book - it's fascinating & very readable.

I think this was true for 1st gen/working-class whites of my cohort. Wondering whether it’s true for anyone these days, but it’ll take at least 15-20 years to know.

[Anonymous]

Well, I went to a top women's college. I was surrounded by intelligent women. Attended excellent classes. Was recruited by a top bank in the top program by an alum. Yes it helps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well, I went to a top women's college. I was surrounded by intelligent women. Attended excellent classes. Was recruited by a top bank in the top program by an alum. Yes it helps.

What women’s college is getting IB recruitment in 2021?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s a large country and there are unimpressive midwits all over the nation in c-suites making millions a year with credentials from degree mills. Look up the public Form 990 of a “nonprofit” hospitals, for example. One of my husband’s childhood friends just became CEO of a F500 company in the Midwest with a bachelor’s from a commuter school and an MBA from a state school’s night/weekend program. A lot of companies promote from within - ex. most UPS execs are state school lifers at the company.

I could see many reasons why someone would pick a commuter school grad (gasp, commuting is the norm, look at the statistics). Maybe they were looking for a gritty hustler. I have no reason to think the person is unimpressive from what you’ve stated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm reading The Inequality Machine: How College Divides Us by Paul Tough, & in it, he delves into the research on this specific Q. Apparently, for first gen URM low income students where specifically a student attends undergrad has a really dramatic impact. Tough highlights research that Raj Chetty (of Stanford and now Harvard) did about social mobility and how likely one is to end up in the Top 1% of earners based on the selectivity of college they attended. The difference between an Ivy level & the next tier of schools was significant. You should read the book - it's fascinating & very readable.

Does he factor in how much those students actually paid to go to school? Did they get significant financial assistance to the point where it was the same as a state school or were they paying 20K a year?

[Anonymous]

Being in an intellectual environment with faculty that cared about me and other students that cared deeply about school pushed me beyond my limits. I became a better thinker, better writer, and developed lifelong relationships that nurtured me. I deepened my commitment to public service. I went on to get a master's and PhD, and do work that interests me in the public sector. I picked the same for my kids who wanted that experience. Measures of "top jobs" and income, don't get at things that some people value - doing meaningful work that interests them. Developing skills that last your lifetime and benefit you beyond your immediate job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I used to think college caliber was important but no longer. For 20 years I saw dozens of "hooked" applicants at our children's high schools get into the most selective tier of private colleges (e.g. Ivies, Duke, Georgetown) over more accomplished classmates. Frankly and sadly, the opportunity seemed to be wasted on nearly all of them. Their classmates who were rejected ended up at state universities and non-selective LACs, graduate with highest honors, and have become successful dentists, MDs, lawyers, engineers, tech founders, and corporate executive tracked.

Another thing I've learned is nobody cares if your child attends or graduated from a fancy college if they've accomplished nothing of note since or landed in a non prestigious / low paying career track that is open to anyone. It actually might be more embarrassing as a parent because you know other parents are thinking, "$280,000 on college just to do that?"

DH went to an Ivy and ended up in a non prestigious/low paying career track at a nonprofit. His parents were not embarrassed at all. Who cares what other people think? People should pick the career path that makes them happy, not the one that would most impress others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Being in an intellectual environment with faculty that cared about me and other students that cared deeply about school pushed me beyond my limits. I became a better thinker, better writer, and developed lifelong relationships that nurtured me. I deepened my commitment to public service. I went on to get a master's and PhD, and do work that interests me in the public sector. I picked the same for my kids who wanted that experience. Measures of "top jobs" and income, don't get at things that some people value - doing meaningful work that interests them. Developing skills that last your lifetime and benefit you beyond your immediate job.

+1 Unfortunately, prestige or money are the only benchmarks of success in American society.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sure, happens sometimes. For example, here's a young lady whose life was wrecked by going to Emory.

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/23/education/poor-students-struggle-as-class-plays-a-greater-role-in-success.html

TLDR - don't let your child be on the bottom end of of the SAT distribution at a college, and the more serious the emotional or socioeconomic challenges, the more important it is to be in the top decile.

Poor kids struggle at any college. The poorest kids overall have a <10% chance of graduating anywhere they go.

What end of Harvard was Jared Kushner's SAT score? The absolute very bottom. Still graduated on time.

[Anonymous]

College does not impact life's trajectory nearly as much as performance does Graduate with a 3.8 , from anywhere, and you can do pretty much anything you want in life.