What religion has the highest chance of going to Heaven?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Different poster. Regarding the poster that’s adamant about saying others should not remark about God.

The same can be said about Christians or Muslims.

Why do people of these faiths need to criticize, critique, and disprove other faiths that they would like to convert?

Why judge whether or not someone is doomed for ‘hell’ or not?

Why talk about ‘unbelievers’ or pagans?

If you critique others, expect to receive the same.
Isn’t that one of your sayings? Do unto others...

It’s not that people can’t, but why would they? I don’t do keto, but if I went to a diet forum and argued with people who did, what would be the point? It wouldn’t make sense. I could do that, I have every “right” to do that, etc, but what would the point be?

So you never think or claim that the beliefs of Muslims are incorrect? You'd be fine if there were people trying to legislate based on the Koran?

You are being disingenuous. You know the immense and unfair influence religion has had on society. Many of us feel the world will be better when people don't hold unfounded beliefs - whether they be religious or flat-earth or Q-anon or Heaven's Gate.

So we try and point out that these beliefs are unfounded with the hope it makes the world better. We know we can't convince anyone like yourself who does not wish to apply critical thinking to this topic - which is absolutely your right.

But since many of us have made this journey before, we feel it is important to have our voice heard in open forums like this one. Key phrase: OPEN FORUMS LIKE THIS ONE. Don't worry, no one will barge into your church and try and convince you. (Or ring your doorbell ). But this is an open forum, so we are equally welcome here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Atheists have no beliefs about religion or god?

Atheists don't believe in God. That one should be easy to figure out.

With regard to religion we obviously don't believe in God, Heaven or Hell, but as for scripture and teachings there is both good and bad. I personally disagree with being anti-contraception, disagree with things like homophobia, I think women should be treated as equal to men (i.e. Catholic church not allowing female clergy), and there are factually wrong things like whales not being fish, rabbits not being ruminants, the earth not being flat to nitpick over but that's trivial - I also think there are some valuable teachings in the Bible, in Buddhism, the Vedas, and other faiths - however none of those things I find to be valuable are tied to belief in a divine being or the supernatural and if you look across cultural and ethnographic studies there are recurring themes like "do not kill, do not steal, treat others as you would have them treat you" showing up in a huge number of societies and cultures, of varying faiths as well as in communities which do not have organized religion. Much of that is really just human empathy. Granted, some people are sociopaths and lack such empathy, which may be why churches invent the concept of "you'll spend an eternity in hell if you don't behave" to try and rein the sociopaths in - but for many of us who have empathy and humanity, we don't need those kinds of threats.

So if you don’t believe in God, why would you have any thoughts about scripture? Scripture is the Holy, sacred, and authoritative word of God. If you don’t believe in Him, why is the scripture something you consider and critique or agree/disagree with? It’s from an entity you don’t think exists?

Not trying to be argumentative or rude, genuinely curious. I have to go now, will check back later in case you answered. Thank you.

Different poster here. For lots of reasons, for instance:

1. Being a scholar or just being interested in the subject -- you don't need to believe in the tenets of a particular religion to study it.
2. Having formerly been a believer/member in a particular religion - you know about it, or think you do, and want to learn more or share what you know or your feelings about it with others. You've been affected by your former beliefs and know, perhaps from experience, that others are too.

You are interested in something you think doesn’t exist?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Atheists have no beliefs about religion or god?

Atheists don't believe in God. That one should be easy to figure out.

With regard to religion we obviously don't believe in God, Heaven or Hell, but as for scripture and teachings there is both good and bad. I personally disagree with being anti-contraception, disagree with things like homophobia, I think women should be treated as equal to men (i.e. Catholic church not allowing female clergy), and there are factually wrong things like whales not being fish, rabbits not being ruminants, the earth not being flat to nitpick over but that's trivial - I also think there are some valuable teachings in the Bible, in Buddhism, the Vedas, and other faiths - however none of those things I find to be valuable are tied to belief in a divine being or the supernatural and if you look across cultural and ethnographic studies there are recurring themes like "do not kill, do not steal, treat others as you would have them treat you" showing up in a huge number of societies and cultures, of varying faiths as well as in communities which do not have organized religion. Much of that is really just human empathy. Granted, some people are sociopaths and lack such empathy, which may be why churches invent the concept of "you'll spend an eternity in hell if you don't behave" to try and rein the sociopaths in - but for many of us who have empathy and humanity, we don't need those kinds of threats.

So if you don’t believe in God, why would you have any thoughts about scripture? Scripture is the Holy, sacred, and authoritative word of God. If you don’t believe in Him, why is the scripture something you consider and critique or agree/disagree with? It’s from an entity you don’t think exists?

Not trying to be argumentative or rude, genuinely curious. I have to go now, will check back later in case you answered. Thank you.

Different poster here. For lots of reasons, for instance:

1. Being a scholar or just being interested in the subject -- you don't need to believe in the tenets of a particular religion to study it.
2. Having formerly been a believer/member in a particular religion - you know about it, or think you do, and want to learn more or share what you know or your feelings about it with others. You've been affected by your former beliefs and know, perhaps from experience, that others are too.

You are interested in something you think doesn’t exist?

DP here. Stop being disingenuous.

PP is trying to understand people, and what they believe. Even most atheists believe people exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Different poster. Regarding the poster that’s adamant about saying others should not remark about God.

The same can be said about Christians or Muslims.

Why do people of these faiths need to criticize, critique, and disprove other faiths that they would like to convert?

Why judge whether or not someone is doomed for ‘hell’ or not?

Why talk about ‘unbelievers’ or pagans?

If you critique others, expect to receive the same.
Isn’t that one of your sayings? Do unto others...

It’s not that people can’t, but why would they? I don’t do keto, but if I went to a diet forum and argued with people who did, what would be the point? It wouldn’t make sense. I could do that, I have every “right” to do that, etc, but what would the point be?

So you never think or claim that the beliefs of Muslims are incorrect? You'd be fine if there were people trying to legislate based on the Koran?

You are being disingenuous. You know the immense and unfair influence religion has had on society. Many of us feel the world will be better when people don't hold unfounded beliefs - whether they be religious or flat-earth or Q-anon or Heaven's Gate.

So we try and point out that these beliefs are unfounded with the hope it makes the world better. We know we can't convince anyone like yourself who does not wish to apply critical thinking to this topic - which is absolutely your right.

But since many of us have made this journey before, we feel it is important to have our voice heard in open forums like this one. Key phrase: OPEN FORUMS LIKE THIS ONE. Don't worry, no one will barge into your church and try and convince you. (Or ring your doorbell ). But this is an open forum, so we are equally welcome here.

An open forum about religious beliefs, of which you have none.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Atheists have no beliefs about religion or god?

Atheists don't believe in God. That one should be easy to figure out.

With regard to religion we obviously don't believe in God, Heaven or Hell, but as for scripture and teachings there is both good and bad. I personally disagree with being anti-contraception, disagree with things like homophobia, I think women should be treated as equal to men (i.e. Catholic church not allowing female clergy), and there are factually wrong things like whales not being fish, rabbits not being ruminants, the earth not being flat to nitpick over but that's trivial - I also think there are some valuable teachings in the Bible, in Buddhism, the Vedas, and other faiths - however none of those things I find to be valuable are tied to belief in a divine being or the supernatural and if you look across cultural and ethnographic studies there are recurring themes like "do not kill, do not steal, treat others as you would have them treat you" showing up in a huge number of societies and cultures, of varying faiths as well as in communities which do not have organized religion. Much of that is really just human empathy. Granted, some people are sociopaths and lack such empathy, which may be why churches invent the concept of "you'll spend an eternity in hell if you don't behave" to try and rein the sociopaths in - but for many of us who have empathy and humanity, we don't need those kinds of threats.

So if you don’t believe in God, why would you have any thoughts about scripture? Scripture is the Holy, sacred, and authoritative word of God. If you don’t believe in Him, why is the scripture something you consider and critique or agree/disagree with? It’s from an entity you don’t think exists?

Not trying to be argumentative or rude, genuinely curious. I have to go now, will check back later in case you answered. Thank you.

Sorry to bust your bubble but scripture was written by humans. Sure, inspired by some belief in the supernatural and with some insights from people who put thought into what it is that they thought they should be teaching, but ultimately they are still just the words of humans. And that shows in places like all of the minor gaffes like scripture saying whales are fish (they are mammals, not fish) or that rabbits chew their cud (they do not). If it were truly the authoritative word of God those errors would not exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Atheists have no beliefs about religion or god?

Atheists don't believe in God. That one should be easy to figure out.

With regard to religion we obviously don't believe in God, Heaven or Hell, but as for scripture and teachings there is both good and bad. I personally disagree with being anti-contraception, disagree with things like homophobia, I think women should be treated as equal to men (i.e. Catholic church not allowing female clergy), and there are factually wrong things like whales not being fish, rabbits not being ruminants, the earth not being flat to nitpick over but that's trivial - I also think there are some valuable teachings in the Bible, in Buddhism, the Vedas, and other faiths - however none of those things I find to be valuable are tied to belief in a divine being or the supernatural and if you look across cultural and ethnographic studies there are recurring themes like "do not kill, do not steal, treat others as you would have them treat you" showing up in a huge number of societies and cultures, of varying faiths as well as in communities which do not have organized religion. Much of that is really just human empathy. Granted, some people are sociopaths and lack such empathy, which may be why churches invent the concept of "you'll spend an eternity in hell if you don't behave" to try and rein the sociopaths in - but for many of us who have empathy and humanity, we don't need those kinds of threats.

So if you don’t believe in God, why would you have any thoughts about scripture? Scripture is the Holy, sacred, and authoritative word of God. If you don’t believe in Him, why is the scripture something you consider and critique or agree/disagree with? It’s from an entity you don’t think exists?

Not trying to be argumentative or rude, genuinely curious. I have to go now, will check back later in case you answered. Thank you.

Different poster here. For lots of reasons, for instance:

1. Being a scholar or just being interested in the subject -- you don't need to believe in the tenets of a particular religion to study it.
2. Having formerly been a believer/member in a particular religion - you know about it, or think you do, and want to learn more or share what you know or your feelings about it with others. You've been affected by your former beliefs and know, perhaps from experience, that others are too.

You are interested in something you think doesn’t exist?

Do we not study ancient Greek philosophers even though they believed in Zeus and Hera and their religion and pantheon of the time influenced their thinking?

We do. So why do you think that is so odd or incomprehensible?

The apostles put a lot of energy and philosophical thought into what they thought a just and virtuous world should be like. They thought about what people should be taught in order for them to live a just and virtuous life. They wrote letters, parables and so on, some of which became parts of the Bible.

Many of those letters, teachings and parables aren't really dependent on belief in God and have relevance outside of religion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Different poster. Regarding the poster that’s adamant about saying others should not remark about God.

The same can be said about Christians or Muslims.

Why do people of these faiths need to criticize, critique, and disprove other faiths that they would like to convert?

Why judge whether or not someone is doomed for ‘hell’ or not?

Why talk about ‘unbelievers’ or pagans?

If you critique others, expect to receive the same.
Isn’t that one of your sayings? Do unto others...

It’s not that people can’t, but why would they? I don’t do keto, but if I went to a diet forum and argued with people who did, what would be the point? It wouldn’t make sense. I could do that, I have every “right” to do that, etc, but what would the point be?

So you never think or claim that the beliefs of Muslims are incorrect? You'd be fine if there were people trying to legislate based on the Koran?

You are being disingenuous. You know the immense and unfair influence religion has had on society. Many of us feel the world will be better when people don't hold unfounded beliefs - whether they be religious or flat-earth or Q-anon or Heaven's Gate.

So we try and point out that these beliefs are unfounded with the hope it makes the world better. We know we can't convince anyone like yourself who does not wish to apply critical thinking to this topic - which is absolutely your right.

But since many of us have made this journey before, we feel it is important to have our voice heard in open forums like this one. Key phrase: OPEN FORUMS LIKE THIS ONE. Don't worry, no one will barge into your church and try and convince you. (Or ring your doorbell ). But this is an open forum, so we are equally welcome here.

An open forum about religious beliefs, of which you have none.

Yes, that is why the title of the forum is "Religious Beliefs".

Oh, wait...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Atheists have no beliefs about religion or god?

Atheists don't believe in God. That one should be easy to figure out.

With regard to religion we obviously don't believe in God, Heaven or Hell, but as for scripture and teachings there is both good and bad. I personally disagree with being anti-contraception, disagree with things like homophobia, I think women should be treated as equal to men (i.e. Catholic church not allowing female clergy), and there are factually wrong things like whales not being fish, rabbits not being ruminants, the earth not being flat to nitpick over but that's trivial - I also think there are some valuable teachings in the Bible, in Buddhism, the Vedas, and other faiths - however none of those things I find to be valuable are tied to belief in a divine being or the supernatural and if you look across cultural and ethnographic studies there are recurring themes like "do not kill, do not steal, treat others as you would have them treat you" showing up in a huge number of societies and cultures, of varying faiths as well as in communities which do not have organized religion. Much of that is really just human empathy. Granted, some people are sociopaths and lack such empathy, which may be why churches invent the concept of "you'll spend an eternity in hell if you don't behave" to try and rein the sociopaths in - but for many of us who have empathy and humanity, we don't need those kinds of threats.

So if you don’t believe in God, why would you have any thoughts about scripture? Scripture is the Holy, sacred, and authoritative word of God. If you don’t believe in Him, why is the scripture something you consider and critique or agree/disagree with? It’s from an entity you don’t think exists?

Not trying to be argumentative or rude, genuinely curious. I have to go now, will check back later in case you answered. Thank you.

Different poster here. For lots of reasons, for instance:

1. Being a scholar or just being interested in the subject -- you don't need to believe in the tenets of a particular religion to study it.
2. Having formerly been a believer/member in a particular religion - you know about it, or think you do, and want to learn more or share what you know or your feelings about it with others. You've been affected by your former beliefs and know, perhaps from experience, that others are too.

You are interested in something you think doesn’t exist?

Do we not study ancient Greek philosophers even though they believed in Zeus and Hera and their religion and pantheon of the time influenced their thinking?

We do. So why do you think that is so odd or incomprehensible?

The apostles put a lot of energy and philosophical thought into what they thought a just and virtuous world should be like. They thought about what people should be taught in order for them to live a just and virtuous life. They wrote letters, parables and so on, some of which became parts of the Bible.

Many of those letters, teachings and parables aren't really dependent on belief in God and have relevance outside of religion.

PP knows all that. He just doesn't like the smell of truth in his echo chamber.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Atheists have no beliefs about religion or god?

Atheists don't believe in God. That one should be easy to figure out.

With regard to religion we obviously don't believe in God, Heaven or Hell, but as for scripture and teachings there is both good and bad. I personally disagree with being anti-contraception, disagree with things like homophobia, I think women should be treated as equal to men (i.e. Catholic church not allowing female clergy), and there are factually wrong things like whales not being fish, rabbits not being ruminants, the earth not being flat to nitpick over but that's trivial - I also think there are some valuable teachings in the Bible, in Buddhism, the Vedas, and other faiths - however none of those things I find to be valuable are tied to belief in a divine being or the supernatural and if you look across cultural and ethnographic studies there are recurring themes like "do not kill, do not steal, treat others as you would have them treat you" showing up in a huge number of societies and cultures, of varying faiths as well as in communities which do not have organized religion. Much of that is really just human empathy. Granted, some people are sociopaths and lack such empathy, which may be why churches invent the concept of "you'll spend an eternity in hell if you don't behave" to try and rein the sociopaths in - but for many of us who have empathy and humanity, we don't need those kinds of threats.

So if you don’t believe in God, why would you have any thoughts about scripture? Scripture is the Holy, sacred, and authoritative word of God. If you don’t believe in Him, why is the scripture something you consider and critique or agree/disagree with? It’s from an entity you don’t think exists?

Not trying to be argumentative or rude, genuinely curious. I have to go now, will check back later in case you answered. Thank you.

Sorry to bust your bubble but scripture was written by humans. Sure, inspired by some belief in the supernatural and with some insights from people who put thought into what it is that they thought they should be teaching, but ultimately they are still just the words of humans. And that shows in places like all of the minor gaffes like scripture saying whales are fish (they are mammals, not fish) or that rabbits chew their cud (they do not). If it were truly the authoritative word of God those errors would not exist.

Rabbits re-ingest partially digested foods, as do modern ruminants. They just do so without the aid of multiple stomach compartments.

The Greek word that is translated “whale” in the KJV (as well as a few other versions) in a brief look in various respected Greek dictionaries quickly reveals that the word is ketos and is defined broadly as a “large sea creature”, “sea monster,” or “huge fish.” Jesus indicated that Jonah was swallowed by a “large sea creature,” which was not necessarily a whale, but may have been.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Atheists have no beliefs about religion or god?

Atheists don't believe in God. That one should be easy to figure out.

With regard to religion we obviously don't believe in God, Heaven or Hell, but as for scripture and teachings there is both good and bad. I personally disagree with being anti-contraception, disagree with things like homophobia, I think women should be treated as equal to men (i.e. Catholic church not allowing female clergy), and there are factually wrong things like whales not being fish, rabbits not being ruminants, the earth not being flat to nitpick over but that's trivial - I also think there are some valuable teachings in the Bible, in Buddhism, the Vedas, and other faiths - however none of those things I find to be valuable are tied to belief in a divine being or the supernatural and if you look across cultural and ethnographic studies there are recurring themes like "do not kill, do not steal, treat others as you would have them treat you" showing up in a huge number of societies and cultures, of varying faiths as well as in communities which do not have organized religion. Much of that is really just human empathy. Granted, some people are sociopaths and lack such empathy, which may be why churches invent the concept of "you'll spend an eternity in hell if you don't behave" to try and rein the sociopaths in - but for many of us who have empathy and humanity, we don't need those kinds of threats.

So if you don’t believe in God, why would you have any thoughts about scripture? Scripture is the Holy, sacred, and authoritative word of God. If you don’t believe in Him, why is the scripture something you consider and critique or agree/disagree with? It’s from an entity you don’t think exists?

Not trying to be argumentative or rude, genuinely curious. I have to go now, will check back later in case you answered. Thank you.

Sorry to bust your bubble but scripture was written by humans. Sure, inspired by some belief in the supernatural and with some insights from people who put thought into what it is that they thought they should be teaching, but ultimately they are still just the words of humans. And that shows in places like all of the minor gaffes like scripture saying whales are fish (they are mammals, not fish) or that rabbits chew their cud (they do not). If it were truly the authoritative word of God those errors would not exist.

Rabbits re-ingest partially digested foods, as do modern ruminants. They just do so without the aid of multiple stomach compartments.

The Greek word that is translated “whale” in the KJV (as well as a few other versions) in a brief look in various respected Greek dictionaries quickly reveals that the word is ketos and is defined broadly as a “large sea creature”, “sea monster,” or “huge fish.” Jesus indicated that Jonah was swallowed by a “large sea creature,” which was not necessarily a whale, but may have been.

So you agree the Bible is not literally true then? That there are mistranslations and other errors? So how do we tell when one is and when one isn’t?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Atheists have no beliefs about religion or god?

Atheists don't believe in God. That one should be easy to figure out.

With regard to religion we obviously don't believe in God, Heaven or Hell, but as for scripture and teachings there is both good and bad. I personally disagree with being anti-contraception, disagree with things like homophobia, I think women should be treated as equal to men (i.e. Catholic church not allowing female clergy), and there are factually wrong things like whales not being fish, rabbits not being ruminants, the earth not being flat to nitpick over but that's trivial - I also think there are some valuable teachings in the Bible, in Buddhism, the Vedas, and other faiths - however none of those things I find to be valuable are tied to belief in a divine being or the supernatural and if you look across cultural and ethnographic studies there are recurring themes like "do not kill, do not steal, treat others as you would have them treat you" showing up in a huge number of societies and cultures, of varying faiths as well as in communities which do not have organized religion. Much of that is really just human empathy. Granted, some people are sociopaths and lack such empathy, which may be why churches invent the concept of "you'll spend an eternity in hell if you don't behave" to try and rein the sociopaths in - but for many of us who have empathy and humanity, we don't need those kinds of threats.

So if you don’t believe in God, why would you have any thoughts about scripture? Scripture is the Holy, sacred, and authoritative word of God. If you don’t believe in Him, why is the scripture something you consider and critique or agree/disagree with? It’s from an entity you don’t think exists?

Not trying to be argumentative or rude, genuinely curious. I have to go now, will check back later in case you answered. Thank you.

Sorry to bust your bubble but scripture was written by humans. Sure, inspired by some belief in the supernatural and with some insights from people who put thought into what it is that they thought they should be teaching, but ultimately they are still just the words of humans. And that shows in places like all of the minor gaffes like scripture saying whales are fish (they are mammals, not fish) or that rabbits chew their cud (they do not). If it were truly the authoritative word of God those errors would not exist.

Rabbits re-ingest partially digested foods, as do modern ruminants. They just do so without the aid of multiple stomach compartments.

The Greek word that is translated “whale” in the KJV (as well as a few other versions) in a brief look in various respected Greek dictionaries quickly reveals that the word is ketos and is defined broadly as a “large sea creature”, “sea monster,” or “huge fish.” Jesus indicated that Jonah was swallowed by a “large sea creature,” which was not necessarily a whale, but may have been.

The Bible, or any other ancient or modern book, doesn't have to be completely scientifically accurate to be valuable.

The problem arises, I think, when people feel they must defend the bible as completely accurate, or the "Word of God" or whatever for it to be taken seriously. It is an ancient book written by ancient people and translated many times.

You can reject it as a rule book or a holy book while still attributing value to it.

It's also understandable that some people who were forced to think of it as a factual rule book come to reject it completely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Atheists have no beliefs about religion or god?

Atheists don't believe in God. That one should be easy to figure out.

With regard to religion we obviously don't believe in God, Heaven or Hell, but as for scripture and teachings there is both good and bad. I personally disagree with being anti-contraception, disagree with things like homophobia, I think women should be treated as equal to men (i.e. Catholic church not allowing female clergy), and there are factually wrong things like whales not being fish, rabbits not being ruminants, the earth not being flat to nitpick over but that's trivial - I also think there are some valuable teachings in the Bible, in Buddhism, the Vedas, and other faiths - however none of those things I find to be valuable are tied to belief in a divine being or the supernatural and if you look across cultural and ethnographic studies there are recurring themes like "do not kill, do not steal, treat others as you would have them treat you" showing up in a huge number of societies and cultures, of varying faiths as well as in communities which do not have organized religion. Much of that is really just human empathy. Granted, some people are sociopaths and lack such empathy, which may be why churches invent the concept of "you'll spend an eternity in hell if you don't behave" to try and rein the sociopaths in - but for many of us who have empathy and humanity, we don't need those kinds of threats.

So if you don’t believe in God, why would you have any thoughts about scripture? Scripture is the Holy, sacred, and authoritative word of God. If you don’t believe in Him, why is the scripture something you consider and critique or agree/disagree with? It’s from an entity you don’t think exists?

Not trying to be argumentative or rude, genuinely curious. I have to go now, will check back later in case you answered. Thank you.

Different poster here. For lots of reasons, for instance:

1. Being a scholar or just being interested in the subject -- you don't need to believe in the tenets of a particular religion to study it.
2. Having formerly been a believer/member in a particular religion - you know about it, or think you do, and want to learn more or share what you know or your feelings about it with others. You've been affected by your former beliefs and know, perhaps from experience, that others are too.

You are interested in something you think doesn’t exist?

Religion exists. Many different religious beliefs and religious sects exist. Religious people exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Atheists have no beliefs about religion or god?

Atheists don't believe in God. That one should be easy to figure out.

With regard to religion we obviously don't believe in God, Heaven or Hell, but as for scripture and teachings there is both good and bad. I personally disagree with being anti-contraception, disagree with things like homophobia, I think women should be treated as equal to men (i.e. Catholic church not allowing female clergy), and there are factually wrong things like whales not being fish, rabbits not being ruminants, the earth not being flat to nitpick over but that's trivial - I also think there are some valuable teachings in the Bible, in Buddhism, the Vedas, and other faiths - however none of those things I find to be valuable are tied to belief in a divine being or the supernatural and if you look across cultural and ethnographic studies there are recurring themes like "do not kill, do not steal, treat others as you would have them treat you" showing up in a huge number of societies and cultures, of varying faiths as well as in communities which do not have organized religion. Much of that is really just human empathy. Granted, some people are sociopaths and lack such empathy, which may be why churches invent the concept of "you'll spend an eternity in hell if you don't behave" to try and rein the sociopaths in - but for many of us who have empathy and humanity, we don't need those kinds of threats.

So if you don’t believe in God, why would you have any thoughts about scripture? Scripture is the Holy, sacred, and authoritative word of God. If you don’t believe in Him, why is the scripture something you consider and critique or agree/disagree with? It’s from an entity you don’t think exists?

Not trying to be argumentative or rude, genuinely curious. I have to go now, will check back later in case you answered. Thank you.

Sorry to bust your bubble but scripture was written by humans. Sure, inspired by some belief in the supernatural and with some insights from people who put thought into what it is that they thought they should be teaching, but ultimately they are still just the words of humans. And that shows in places like all of the minor gaffes like scripture saying whales are fish (they are mammals, not fish) or that rabbits chew their cud (they do not). If it were truly the authoritative word of God those errors would not exist.

Rabbits re-ingest partially digested foods, as do modern ruminants. They just do so without the aid of multiple stomach compartments.

The Greek word that is translated “whale” in the KJV (as well as a few other versions) in a brief look in various respected Greek dictionaries quickly reveals that the word is ketos and is defined broadly as a “large sea creature”, “sea monster,” or “huge fish.” Jesus indicated that Jonah was swallowed by a “large sea creature,” which was not necessarily a whale, but may have been.

Assuming all of the above is accurate - and even if it's not - pp has gone to great lengths to defend sections of the Bible via studying ancient Greek.

It's interesting, academically to know the translations, but doesn't make the Bible more believable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Atheists have no beliefs about religion or god?

Atheists don't believe in God. That one should be easy to figure out.

With regard to religion we obviously don't believe in God, Heaven or Hell, but as for scripture and teachings there is both good and bad. I personally disagree with being anti-contraception, disagree with things like homophobia, I think women should be treated as equal to men (i.e. Catholic church not allowing female clergy), and there are factually wrong things like whales not being fish, rabbits not being ruminants, the earth not being flat to nitpick over but that's trivial - I also think there are some valuable teachings in the Bible, in Buddhism, the Vedas, and other faiths - however none of those things I find to be valuable are tied to belief in a divine being or the supernatural and if you look across cultural and ethnographic studies there are recurring themes like "do not kill, do not steal, treat others as you would have them treat you" showing up in a huge number of societies and cultures, of varying faiths as well as in communities which do not have organized religion. Much of that is really just human empathy. Granted, some people are sociopaths and lack such empathy, which may be why churches invent the concept of "you'll spend an eternity in hell if you don't behave" to try and rein the sociopaths in - but for many of us who have empathy and humanity, we don't need those kinds of threats.

So if you don’t believe in God, why would you have any thoughts about scripture? Scripture is the Holy, sacred, and authoritative word of God. If you don’t believe in Him, why is the scripture something you consider and critique or agree/disagree with? It’s from an entity you don’t think exists?

Not trying to be argumentative or rude, genuinely curious. I have to go now, will check back later in case you answered. Thank you.

Part of the reason that some atheists as well as some "liberal" religious believers care is because fundamentalist believers of any religion often think people who don't believe as they do should be punished for their lack of belief or be forced to believe.

For instance, pp's statement that "Scripture is the Holy, sacred, and authoritative word of God" is a belief, not a fact and people living in a free society who don't believe it have a right to point that out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Different poster. Regarding the poster that’s adamant about saying others should not remark about God.

The same can be said about Christians or Muslims.

Why do people of these faiths need to criticize, critique, and disprove other faiths that they would like to convert?

Why judge whether or not someone is doomed for ‘hell’ or not?

Why talk about ‘unbelievers’ or pagans?

If you critique others, expect to receive the same.
Isn’t that one of your sayings? Do unto others...

It’s not that people can’t, but why would they? I don’t do keto, but if I went to a diet forum and argued with people who did, what would be the point? It wouldn’t make sense. I could do that, I have every “right” to do that, etc, but what would the point be?

So you never think or claim that the beliefs of Muslims are incorrect? You'd be fine if there were people trying to legislate based on the Koran?

You are being disingenuous. You know the immense and unfair influence religion has had on society. Many of us feel the world will be better when people don't hold unfounded beliefs - whether they be religious or flat-earth or Q-anon or Heaven's Gate.

So we try and point out that these beliefs are unfounded with the hope it makes the world better. We know we can't convince anyone like yourself who does not wish to apply critical thinking to this topic - which is absolutely your right.

But since many of us have made this journey before, we feel it is important to have our voice heard in open forums like this one. Key phrase: OPEN FORUMS LIKE THIS ONE. Don't worry, no one will barge into your church and try and convince you. (Or ring your doorbell ). But this is an open forum, so we are equally welcome here.

Good points, thank you. I think religious people and Christians in particular, are so accustomed to being dominant and considered correct they they just don't get it when non-religious people present themselves not only as equal, but even perhaps having something worthwhile and sensible to say.

They feel that it's acceptable and even valuable to push their religion to save our souls, but are offended when non-believers provide their reasons for no longer believing or never believing. On a public forum. Not in their homes.

I think a big benefit of non-believers speaking up is a kind of consciousness raising that believing in a supernatural being who guides you through life and either rewards or punishes you after death is not the only acceptable idea out there and may be even be a bad or wrong idea. Also it allows believers to see that people can be - and have been - good citizens without believing in God.

Maybe best of all, is that doubters can see that shedding belief in god can be a good thing and a huge relief.