I am the squeezed middle class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I'm not sure why some of you are demonizing people who feel they are middle class in this area. Bitterness? Jealousy? WHat is it? Where I grew up, yep, we'd be rich. Here, not so much. A dollar just does not go as far here. We are not poor or anywhere close to it. But, we are not by any means rich.

I'm certainly not demonizing you. I'm just saying, even though you feel stretched, you aren't middle class, with a HHI of $200K.

And I'm guessing you don't like where I do, in Prince George's County. That's where families live, and live well, on HHI of $80K. We're got a great middle class community here!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People are making an awful lot of assumptions on here about what people are or not doing. We are in the $200K/year range and we are squeezed. You saying "we are not middle class" does not change our reality.

We don't dress our DD in $100 sweaters (target or hand me down from friends, usually). We don't have a 4 BR/3 Bath house (not even close). We have one used, paid off car and one new (our prev ones were prev driven for over 10 years). We will not be sending DD to private school bc even if inclined to do so, we could not afford it. I am hoping we can afford to pay for college, but that is not certain. The "designer" clothes . . . if you can call J.Crew designer . . . we wear are often from the outlets. And, we do a lot of Old Navy/Gap.

I'm not sure why some of you are demonizing people who feel they are middle class in this area. Bitterness? Jealousy? WHat is it? Where I grew up, yep, we'd be rich. Here, not so much. A dollar just does not go as far here. We are not poor or anywhere close to it. But, we are not by any means rich.

I haven't demonized OP but am wondering what you are spending your money on if you feel that squeezed at 200K. Not being snarky - it's just that we make less than that and feel okay. We are careful but don't pinch pennies and have a nice quality of life, like being able to live close in, owning a home, buying organic, not feeling guilty every time I stop at Starbucks, etc. I don't feel rich but I wouldn't say we feel squeezed, and we save each month plus contribute to retirement and college savings.

I guess it all depends on when you bought your house, if you have student loans, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People are making an awful lot of assumptions on here about what people are or not doing. We are in the $200K/year range and we are squeezed. You saying "we are not middle class" does not change our reality.

We don't dress our DD in $100 sweaters (target or hand me down from friends, usually). We don't have a 4 BR/3 Bath house (not even close). We have one used, paid off car and one new (our prev ones were prev driven for over 10 years). We will not be sending DD to private school bc even if inclined to do so, we could not afford it. I am hoping we can afford to pay for college, but that is not certain. The "designer" clothes . . . if you can call J.Crew designer . . . we wear are often from the outlets. And, we do a lot of Old Navy/Gap.

I'm not sure why some of you are demonizing people who feel they are middle class in this area. Bitterness? Jealousy? WHat is it? Where I grew up, yep, we'd be rich. Here, not so much. A dollar just does not go as far here. We are not poor or anywhere close to it. But, we are not by any means rich.

these kind of comments make you sound out of touch. from where i sit, J.Crew looks fabulous. and i wish i could afford it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People are making an awful lot of assumptions on here about what people are or not doing. We are in the $200K/year range and we are squeezed. You saying "we are not middle class" does not change our reality.

We don't dress our DD in $100 sweaters (target or hand me down from friends, usually). We don't have a 4 BR/3 Bath house (not even close). We have one used, paid off car and one new (our prev ones were prev driven for over 10 years). We will not be sending DD to private school bc even if inclined to do so, we could not afford it. I am hoping we can afford to pay for college, but that is not certain. The "designer" clothes . . . if you can call J.Crew designer . . . we wear are often from the outlets. And, we do a lot of Old Navy/Gap.

I'm not sure why some of you are demonizing people who feel they are middle class in this area. Bitterness? Jealousy? WHat is it? Where I grew up, yep, we'd be rich. Here, not so much. A dollar just does not go as far here. We are not poor or anywhere close to it. But, we are not by any means rich.

these kind of comments make you sound out of touch. from where i sit, J.Crew looks fabulous. and i wish i could afford it.

Agreed. Even J. Crew outlet clothes are priced higher than many other brands out there. I shop there, because I love the clothes. If I felt "squeezed" I'd stop shopping at J.Crew (outlet).

[Anonymous]

To all those people who earn a high HHI and feel demonized - you are missing the point. I really don't think anyone here is saying that you don"t deserve to enjoy your money. You work hard and earn a good income, good for you! Just please do not talk about being "squeezed" and all the luxuries (like paying for private school) that you can't afford. $200k/year is a lot of money. Yes, it does not go that far in this area, but it still is a lot of money. And, I say this as someone whose HHI is high.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think some people on here think "squeezed" means "I can't quite afford to pay for the nicest version of everything I ever wanted or might want in the future without a second thought." That's a pretty skewed definition to me.

exactly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"I get that you $200K earners don't feel filthy rich, and you do feel squeezed. But do recognize that if you are worried about how to pay for private school and retirement at the same time, you have worries that are not typical of the middle class in the US these days. Middle class is just trying to hang on to a job and some kind of health care. "

That is very true. But, it is shocking that people in high earner professions (doctors, lawyers) are stressed about paying for college, when 20 years ago my blue collar worker parents were able to put my sister and I through private colleges with the help of some smallish scholarships and loans covering about 1/4 of the costs. And this is not because people are greedy or not frugal, but rather due to the sharply rising costs of things like health insurance, college tuition, housing, and saving for retirement (which for our parents generation was mostly funded by their employers).

I dislike OP's tone, but I understand the stress.

True that college costs are getting ridiculous, but I also suspect that people generally live more "lavishly" than in the past. I think this applies to all income levels. How many people NEED to have an IPhone and other expensive gadgets? Not many, but many people have them. This is just one example, but I am continually amazed at how many unnecessary things people who claim to not have any money purchase.

I agree with this. I am frequently shccked by what people spend on clothing and makeup, for instance. Our annual HHI is over $400k (I know, I know, it's a lot, don't yell, that is only part of my point). We don't dress our preschool/elementary children in $100 sweaters, (unless I get them at TJ Maxx for $30), and I don't buy $700 shoes. I don't buy $70 lipstick. My DH and I are well dressed, but I buy most of the high end stuff at Loehmann's, on sale, online, etc. Maybe I'm just cheap by nature. But what I want to know is: if you're making $100k a year ( or less), why would you spend hundreds (if not thousands) on clothing?? Isn't that disproportionately expensive? It's not something that will accrue greater value over time, like a house or an investment. I don't get it.

I agree with this, too. I watch a lot of those real estate shows on HGTV and am always amazed by what buyers (usually first time buyers) expect in a house. Big master suites with full baths and walk in closets, a large kitchen with granite and stainless steel appliances, etc. And among my friends, it seems almost expected that you will at some point upgrade to a large, newer house with 4-5 bedrooms. I know this isn't the case with everyone, but sometimes I end up feeling bad that I "only" have a 3BR 2 bath Cape even though we paid almost $600,000 for it which is unheard of in many other parts of the country. Of course I know I am being ridiculous because we are very fortunate to have all that we have, but it just seems to be the type lifestyle that many people are working for these days.

HGTV is the reason for the sentiments of the 'squeezed'...HA! We are in a 1million home here and it doesn't even have a master bath or a garage. Yes-it is fab location but definitely wouldn't have all the things on those young ppl's starter home checklist on "House Hunters". Relatives and friends that visit from out of town would have a coronary if they ever knew how much we paid for what we have. I am not expecting ppl to feel sorry for me--love my life, love my house...I know I could have a mansion elsewhere---just rather be here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To all those people who earn a high HHI and feel demonized - you are missing the point. I really don't think anyone here is saying that you don"t deserve to enjoy your money. You work hard and earn a good income, good for you! Just please do not talk about being "squeezed" and all the luxuries (like paying for private school) that you can't afford. $200k/year is a lot of money. Yes, it does not go that far in this area, but it still is a lot of money. And, I say this as someone whose HHI is high.

Ok, so we are all clear -- what is HHI threshold for complaints on DCUM?

[Anonymous]

OP here. Missed some of these comments.
I actually work two jopbs for the same complany. Years ago, the jobs were brought together and the salary was doubled.
I am a single mother, and have two teen sons who will be entering college soon, and I have to foot the bill.

The comments about BMWs left me laughing. I drive a Toyota Camry that I got in 2001. I have never even been on the lot of a luxury car dealer. No fancy vacations, because no time. I never wear jewelry, and look silly in designer clothes. I wear shoes for 6 years at a time. The only area I "waste' money is on the basics like food. I can not take time to bargain hunt, so I buy food at regular and sometime high prices. I rush through the store, pile my cart up and pay. I also have been burned with some financial decisions, again because of rushing too much. I don't own a home here. I rent out my home (FL) and rent one here.

Just got sick of ex-BIL, since he is the most lazy, cynical person I know. He thinks I have it easy and I need to pay more taxes. BTW, it is his brother that owes me tons of child support (another story). If he just lit a teeny flame under his tail, he would do better. All that extra time he has on his hands could have been used to take in extra work on the side. Maybe he has it all figured out: post a low income and get financial aid.

[Anonymous]

OP, I was one of the posters who was chastising you, but now that you've clarified your situation, I do get where you're coming from. You still have a high HHI (more than double what my DH and I bring in), and I do still wonder if you've saved/invested, but I can see why you're wondering how to pay for college. (as an aside, I also agree with some earlier posters that college tuition is out of control, WAY, WAY out of control)

And now I get that your BIL really is lazy, not just that he has a job where he works less hours than you. Kudos to you for working hard and raising your kids by yourself, and without your ex's financial support. I will never understand why men will happily create children and then not support them.

[Anonymous]

OP, thanks for coming back to clarify. So often people create threads that spin out of control and we never hear from them again. I have a lot of admiration for your working as hard as you have and raising two boys on your own, you deserve a ton of kudos.

That said, comparing your situation to your brother's is a dead end. It's not useful to you and just sounds like an exercise in frustration. Instead you need to focus on how you will pay for college. I'm still not sure how you don't have any savings given your only luxury is groceries. My family makes less than half that amount and I still put away a little each month for college savings. Are you paying private HS tuition? You mentioned that you rent, would it be possible to move to a less expensive place? If your kids are heading off to college it might be a good time to downsize. I think someone else mentioned going to community college for two years and then transferring- all that matters is where the degree came from, you don't need to spend 4 years there. You also seem focused on private college tuition but there are some fantastic state schools out there, like UVA if you live in Virginia. If you live in DC there is a program where your kids are eligible for instate tuition anywhere in the country, so they could go to UCLA or Berkeley. Honestly, I went to a private college (not ivy) and I think it was a waste. I still have tons of loans and I don't think it gave me any advantage in the job market. My parents gave us kids the equivalent of instate tuition and we made up the rest. I'll do that with my own kids, and will heavily encourage them to go the public route.

[Anonymous]

I'm not trying to be mean here, OP, but I still don't see how you can complain about $200k/year (complain about your BIL - yes, but HHI? no). You seem to work very hard - no doubt. But I don't see where your money is going that makes you feel so squeezed? It doesn't appear that it is going to an overly expensive home, expensive cars or even child care. So where?

Something is just not adding up.

A lot of the people around here who make $200k/year are on DUAL salaries. And many of them have child care expenses which count for thousands a month. So...if you feel stretched and supposedly aren't spending on luxuries, where is your money going?

Also, where is child support? I know sometimes it is hard to collect, but presumably, as a single mom, you have the right to it.

[Anonymous]

OP again. I have one child who has a slight learning disability in the 10 th grade. I don't see him getting through the large college campuses that are typical of public schools. The other child (11th grade) will do well anywhere, but if he gets into a top 10 school, and it is private, I will pay for it; otherwise, it will be U of MD. They are not in private school now. The younger one was at a private school in FL for LD kids for 6 years, and that was money well spent.

Another big expense was child care. One child does not have the best judgement, so for years I was paying baby sitters to care for kids who were very well old enogh to be home alone. The problem is that with my hours, the more time kids have to themselves, the more trouble they get into. I tried the college students, but they were just as irresponsible. I eventually got a 60 year old woman who was very good, and charged $13 per hour. I just eliminated that service, and I am nervous.

As I mentioned I do own a home, it makes no sense to sell it now as the FL market is more depressed than here.
In the last 7 years, I became the head of household. The move, and various things made savings hard, but I have saved some. My income is peaking at the wrong time. The schools will see what I make, and not offer a cent. My retirement savings started 7 years ago, and I plan to work for another 10 years. I have no pension. When I look at my investments, I have only lost money. If this does not turn around, I might be retiring on less money than I put away. Social security is something I will have to count on. The home will be paid off, so that is nice.

[Anonymous]

OP - I have sympathy for any single mom, but honestly, your HHI is 2x what we make and we both work.

College is a struggle for every parent. I doubt we will get much financial aid either. I went to a private college and most of the kids there were on huge amounts of financial aid and grants, and most had loans. Very few families can afford to send two kids to private schools and pay $200K each these days.

I see what you mean about your BIL, but you are looking through a narrow lens. Yes he may get SOME help for school (some, not much I would imagine) but he struggles in other ways. I'm not saying he deserves sympathy if he is a lazy ass, but I would be surprised if things are constantly getting handed to him in any legal way (unless he is gaming the system).

It's fine to vent, I totally get it, but single mom or not, you are making a lot more than the vast majority of Americans.

[Anonymous]

new poster here--

I too have much sympathy for any single mom and esp. those who are not receiving monetary support from the father.

However, I have to agree with the previous poster that something is not adding up here at all.
You make 255K, you don't have a car payment, don't splurge on shoes/clothing, don't take vacations, FL house is payed off.
As far as I can see your big expenses are DC rent, aftercare, and food.
Even if you pay 20K or heck even 40K in childcare (like many if not most of us here in DC) you should still be able to save for college rather aggressively.
Once the kids are in college it seems to me that your major sole major expense will be your rent leaving you all sorts of income (at 255k+) to pay for college.

I'm sorry but I think something is missing in this equation.