Letter to FCPS about TJ Admissions By TJHSST Students

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not everyone belongs to TJ, those who don’t and get pushed in simply suffer, whether they are pushed in by overzealous parents or overzealous politicians. A differential equation doesn’t care what color of skin you have. Either you can solve it or you can’t.

You don't need to take differential equations in high school to succeed as a STEM major in college. TJ's goal should be to prepare high school kids for succeeding in STEM majors in college, not to make high school into college. I think that focus on making high school more like college instead of preparing kids to succeed in college is where TJ has gone off track and so is failing all except a small segment of the FCPS student body. Those who want a simulated college experience in high school should pay to have that privately and should not be able to use a public school for that purpose to the detriment of others.

x10000000

Yes! This!

If you don’t want to solve differential equation? then why do you even want to go to TJ?

I don't want my Kid to solve the differential equations, and I don't want your Kid to solve them too, SAD

DD takes DE class at TJ now and tells me every day how she loves it. If she had to go to her base school, she probably could have graduated after 10th grade. Maybe that’s what other advanced kids should do in the future: if they don’t win the TJ lottery, just go to the base school and graduate earlier.

Going to college at 15, 16? May not be mature enough or emotionally ready though.

Some people just can’t seem to understand. There are actually lots of kids at TJ who just love these kind of stuff and genially enjoying it. These kids need TJ.

Welp. You'll need to start coming up with a plan other than TJ to fill that "need."

Then people can “lottery” and destroy that one too

Not if you pay for it.

1. Aren’t you discriminating the poor?
2. Public schools are required to meet this need by law

Really? I think they are obliged to provide a high school education but not necessarily one with advanced college level STEM.

If kids go in at the level of advanced college STEM, then not having that means that they're effectively not being provided with an education during their high school years. Maybe it would just look like they are and maybe they're effectively home-schooling because they aren't getting anything from the school. It's wrong to dismiss the legal aspect out-of-hand.

No it's not wrong to dismiss the legal aspect out of hand. Many kids identified as gifted don't get into TJ and are at their base school with no additional resources other than AP and IB classes. They can't sue the FCPS because they are only provided with AP, IB or honors classes. When the kids who end up at TJ were in AAP in MS and four years ahead, they couldn't sue to be taught at their level. I will easily dismiss the argument FCPS has provide kids with advanced college level STEM classes in order to meet the legal requirements.

[Anonymous]

In a perfect world, the MS teachers at each school would be able to list their top 5 must-have students, to ensure the truly spectacular students get in. Unfortunately, the pressure from parents would be too much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When 1/3 of the students are admitted from one prep place - change is needed. Immigrants are organized, and you better believe that information traveled like wildfire, just as the test questions and answers did. In what world is that okay? Why should cheating be tolerated?

That prep school gives 3 or 4 times the work given by any middle school. So with that amount of prep given students will natrually pass into TJ. Why doent FCPS or the Virginia dept of education constitute an enquiry to prove the allegations. If not, dont spread the hate against immigrants who have come legally, pay heavy taxes than others.

Why would they put in an inquiry to prove the allegations? What would be the value of that for them? To shut you up? No one cares about that.

They know the test is compromised, so they're moving away from it. There would be no benefit from looking backwards and trying to punish Curie for what they did, and nothing would likely come of it anyway because stuff like this is nearly impossible to prove. But everyone at TJ knows that it happened, and that it's been happening for years, so FCPS is doing something about it so that in the FUTURE it's not a factor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is embarrassing from the TJ students and I am frankly shocked that these decided to put their names on it. It's just not good writing. Their position is a defensible one but this is a poorly mounted defense at best.

The vast majority of students at TJ will not accept this change, and that's to be expected because they were admitted through a different process that told them that they were the best and brightest.

It must be heartbreaking for you to see TJ students sweep the scholastic writing awards, debate tournaments, ModelUN conferences and other writing awards way more than Langley or McLean students year in and year out.

No, it's not. I'm very proud to have attended the same school as those students.

But these students wrote a very poorly written and argued letter claiming to represent TJ students as a whole - essentially signaling that they believe the incoming class of 2025 will be less than - and for that I'm embarrassed and disappointed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In a perfect world, the MS teachers at each school would be able to list their top 5 must-have students, to ensure the truly spectacular students get in. Unfortunately, the pressure from parents would be too much.

Agree with all aspects of this. Pro-TJ reform but my biggest concern with this is that you will leave behind the truly spectacular Black and Hispanic kids. Set aside 50-100 slots for those kids from Fairfax County and never, ever identify who they are. Lottery the rest. You'll get essentially the same caliber of school you have now but with MUCH stronger diversity.

[Anonymous]

I think think perhaps they should do a mix of all.

Top test scores
Reserve x spots for URM
Lottery for 3.8 gpa plus algebra

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think think perhaps they should do a mix of all.

Top test scores
Reserve x spots for URM
Lottery for 3.8 gpa plus algebra

Racial quotas are illegal. Any suggestion of this is pointless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In a perfect world, the MS teachers at each school would be able to list their top 5 must-have students, to ensure the truly spectacular students get in. Unfortunately, the pressure from parents would be too much.

Agree with all aspects of this. Pro-TJ reform but my biggest concern with this is that you will leave behind the truly spectacular Black and Hispanic kids. Set aside 50-100 slots for those kids from Fairfax County and never, ever identify who they are. Lottery the rest. You'll get essentially the same caliber of school you have now but with MUCH stronger diversity.

All this worry about truly spectacular black and Hispanic kids is misplaced. They will succeed anywhere. They will shine at their base schools if they don't make the lottery and won't be disadvantaged one bit. The kids who would be most helped are the smart but not spectacular kids who would not get in under the current system but might under the lottery. It's illegal to set aside slots based on race. Also, keeping 75% or more of the slots under the current system and throwing a bone of 50 slots to preserve the status quo is a nonstarter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When 1/3 of the students are admitted from one prep place - change is needed. Immigrants are organized, and you better believe that information traveled like wildfire, just as the test questions and answers did. In what world is that okay? Why should cheating be tolerated?

That prep school gives 3 or 4 times the work given by any middle school. So with that amount of prep given students will natrually pass into TJ. Why doent FCPS or the Virginia dept of education constitute an enquiry to prove the allegations. If not, dont spread the hate against immigrants who have come legally, pay heavy taxes than others.

Why would they put in an inquiry to prove the allegations? What would be the value of that for them? To shut you up? No one cares about that.

They know the test is compromised, so they're moving away from it. There would be no benefit from looking backwards and trying to punish Curie for what they did, and nothing would likely come of it anyway because stuff like this is nearly impossible to prove. But everyone at TJ knows that it happened, and that it's been happening for years, so FCPS is doing something about it so that in the FUTURE it's not a factor.

I for one would like to see an inquiry. I am livid.

My child was a semifinalist this year, did NOT prep and was not admitted. I have to wonder if his seat was stolen by Curie. Applying is not a simple process and FCPS has a duty to ensure that at the very least it is fair.

- He had to take a several hours long test in November and then another test in Feb.
- He also spent hours dreaming about the school and talked to several recent alumni.
- He was crushed when he didn’t get in. Especially because the news came at such a terrible time in March.
- We paid $100 tor him to take the test, not a small expense for our family.
- Two of his teachers spent time writing a recommendation letter.

It sounds like FCPS knew that the Curie was a problem (or should have known!). I think they owe every child that was a semifinalist an explanation. They should send an email, offer to refund the $100 fee and facilitate sophomore admissions if the student is still interested. If my child was on the waitlist, I would 100% push for my child to be IMMEDIATELY admitted because it’s pretty clear that those on the waitlist had a spot stolen from them.

If one of those TJ students that signed that letter helped Curie teach their students to cheat, he/she should be ashamed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think think perhaps they should do a mix of all.

Top test scores
Reserve x spots for URM
Lottery for 3.8 gpa plus algebra

Tests are out. FCPS has learned with TJ and AAP admissions that cheaters are gonna cheat no matter how much they try to make a unique secure test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think think perhaps they should do a mix of all.

Top test scores
Reserve x spots for URM
Lottery for 3.8 gpa plus algebra

Racial quotas are illegal. Any suggestion of this is pointless.

Is this true? What about college admission? Are racial quotas illegal there too? I see colleges maintain relatively static racial quotas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When 1/3 of the students are admitted from one prep place - change is needed. Immigrants are organized, and you better believe that information traveled like wildfire, just as the test questions and answers did. In what world is that okay? Why should cheating be tolerated?

That prep school gives 3 or 4 times the work given by any middle school. So with that amount of prep given students will natrually pass into TJ. Why doent FCPS or the Virginia dept of education constitute an enquiry to prove the allegations. If not, dont spread the hate against immigrants who have come legally, pay heavy taxes than others.

Why would they put in an inquiry to prove the allegations? What would be the value of that for them? To shut you up? No one cares about that.

They know the test is compromised, so they're moving away from it. There would be no benefit from looking backwards and trying to punish Curie for what they did, and nothing would likely come of it anyway because stuff like this is nearly impossible to prove. But everyone at TJ knows that it happened, and that it's been happening for years, so FCPS is doing something about it so that in the FUTURE it's not a factor.

I for one would like to see an inquiry. I am livid.

My child was a semifinalist this year, did NOT prep and was not admitted. I have to wonder if his seat was stolen by Curie. Applying is not a simple process and FCPS has a duty to ensure that at the very least it is fair.

- He had to take a several hours long test in November and then another test in Feb.
- He also spent hours dreaming about the school and talked to several recent alumni.
- He was crushed when he didn’t get in. Especially because the news came at such a terrible time in March.
- We paid $100 tor him to take the test, not a small expense for our family.
- Two of his teachers spent time writing a recommendation letter.

It sounds like FCPS knew that the Curie was a problem (or should have known!). I think they owe every child that was a semifinalist an explanation. They should send an email, offer to refund the $100 fee and facilitate sophomore admissions if the student is still interested. If my child was on the waitlist, I would 100% push for my child to be IMMEDIATELY admitted because it’s pretty clear that those on the waitlist had a spot stolen from them.

If one of those TJ students that signed that letter helped Curie teach their students to cheat, he/she should be ashamed.

FCPS switched to the quant Q to avoid prep centers being able to give their students an advantage. It worked for the first year, but three years in, if someone wants to cheat, that's enough time to undermine the test. FCPS can't be held accountable for that. They can't spend millions annually to come up with unique tests. They had that issue with AAP too. I think getting rid of the tests is the only solution, unfortunately.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When 1/3 of the students are admitted from one prep place - change is needed. Immigrants are organized, and you better believe that information traveled like wildfire, just as the test questions and answers did. In what world is that okay? Why should cheating be tolerated?

That prep school gives 3 or 4 times the work given by any middle school. So with that amount of prep given students will natrually pass into TJ. Why doent FCPS or the Virginia dept of education constitute an enquiry to prove the allegations. If not, dont spread the hate against immigrants who have come legally, pay heavy taxes than others.

Why would they put in an inquiry to prove the allegations? What would be the value of that for them? To shut you up? No one cares about that.

They know the test is compromised, so they're moving away from it. There would be no benefit from looking backwards and trying to punish Curie for what they did, and nothing would likely come of it anyway because stuff like this is nearly impossible to prove. But everyone at TJ knows that it happened, and that it's been happening for years, so FCPS is doing something about it so that in the FUTURE it's not a factor.

I for one would like to see an inquiry. I am livid.

My child was a semifinalist this year, did NOT prep and was not admitted. I have to wonder if his seat was stolen by Curie. Applying is not a simple process and FCPS has a duty to ensure that at the very least it is fair.

- He had to take a several hours long test in November and then another test in Feb.
- He also spent hours dreaming about the school and talked to several recent alumni.
- He was crushed when he didn’t get in. Especially because the news came at such a terrible time in March.
- We paid $100 tor him to take the test, not a small expense for our family.
- Two of his teachers spent time writing a recommendation letter.

It sounds like FCPS knew that the Curie was a problem (or should have known!). I think they owe every child that was a semifinalist an explanation. They should send an email, offer to refund the $100 fee and facilitate sophomore admissions if the student is still interested. If my child was on the waitlist, I would 100% push for my child to be IMMEDIATELY admitted because it’s pretty clear that those on the waitlist had a spot stolen from them.
If one of those TJ students that signed that letter helped Curie teach their students to cheat, he/she should be ashamed.

I also wonder if the Curie list for the classes of 2022, 2023 and 2024 will be sent to every T20 college admissions office by other TJ students. “Canceling” other students for college admissions is reportedly already part of the TJ culture, so these lists will sadly be weaponized by their fellow students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When 1/3 of the students are admitted from one prep place - change is needed. Immigrants are organized, and you better believe that information traveled like wildfire, just as the test questions and answers did. In what world is that okay? Why should cheating be tolerated?

That prep school gives 3 or 4 times the work given by any middle school. So with that amount of prep given students will natrually pass into TJ. Why doent FCPS or the Virginia dept of education constitute an enquiry to prove the allegations. If not, dont spread the hate against immigrants who have come legally, pay heavy taxes than others.

Why would they put in an inquiry to prove the allegations? What would be the value of that for them? To shut you up? No one cares about that.

They know the test is compromised, so they're moving away from it. There would be no benefit from looking backwards and trying to punish Curie for what they did, and nothing would likely come of it anyway because stuff like this is nearly impossible to prove. But everyone at TJ knows that it happened, and that it's been happening for years, so FCPS is doing something about it so that in the FUTURE it's not a factor.

I for one would like to see an inquiry. I am livid.

My child was a semifinalist this year, did NOT prep and was not admitted. I have to wonder if his seat was stolen by Curie. Applying is not a simple process and FCPS has a duty to ensure that at the very least it is fair.

- He had to take a several hours long test in November and then another test in Feb.
- He also spent hours dreaming about the school and talked to several recent alumni.
- He was crushed when he didn’t get in. Especially because the news came at such a terrible time in March.
- We paid $100 tor him to take the test, not a small expense for our family.
- Two of his teachers spent time writing a recommendation letter.

It sounds like FCPS knew that the Curie was a problem (or should have known!). I think they owe every child that was a semifinalist an explanation. They should send an email, offer to refund the $100 fee and facilitate sophomore admissions if the student is still interested. If my child was on the waitlist, I would 100% push for my child to be IMMEDIATELY admitted because it’s pretty clear that those on the waitlist had a spot stolen from them.

If one of those TJ students that signed that letter helped Curie teach their students to cheat, he/she should be ashamed.

PP. This crushed me to read but is not surprising.

I don't know how this would functionally work, though. You'd have to give the TJ students immunity to discuss the situation, and additionally there's no guarantee that the 8th grade students who provided Curie with the exam questions (because I'm 99% sure that's what happened here) actually got into TJ to begin with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When 1/3 of the students are admitted from one prep place - change is needed. Immigrants are organized, and you better believe that information traveled like wildfire, just as the test questions and answers did. In what world is that okay? Why should cheating be tolerated?

That prep school gives 3 or 4 times the work given by any middle school. So with that amount of prep given students will natrually pass into TJ. Why doent FCPS or the Virginia dept of education constitute an enquiry to prove the allegations. If not, dont spread the hate against immigrants who have come legally, pay heavy taxes than others.

Why would they put in an inquiry to prove the allegations? What would be the value of that for them? To shut you up? No one cares about that.

They know the test is compromised, so they're moving away from it. There would be no benefit from looking backwards and trying to punish Curie for what they did, and nothing would likely come of it anyway because stuff like this is nearly impossible to prove. But everyone at TJ knows that it happened, and that it's been happening for years, so FCPS is doing something about it so that in the FUTURE it's not a factor.

I for one would like to see an inquiry. I am livid.

My child was a semifinalist this year, did NOT prep and was not admitted. I have to wonder if his seat was stolen by Curie. Applying is not a simple process and FCPS has a duty to ensure that at the very least it is fair.

- He had to take a several hours long test in November and then another test in Feb.
- He also spent hours dreaming about the school and talked to several recent alumni.
- He was crushed when he didn’t get in. Especially because the news came at such a terrible time in March.
- We paid $100 tor him to take the test, not a small expense for our family.
- Two of his teachers spent time writing a recommendation letter.

It sounds like FCPS knew that the Curie was a problem (or should have known!). I think they owe every child that was a semifinalist an explanation. They should send an email, offer to refund the $100 fee and facilitate sophomore admissions if the student is still interested. If my child was on the waitlist, I would 100% push for my child to be IMMEDIATELY admitted because it’s pretty clear that those on the waitlist had a spot stolen from them.

If one of those TJ students that signed that letter helped Curie teach their students to cheat, he/she should be ashamed.

FCPS switched to the quant Q to avoid prep centers being able to give their students an advantage. It worked for the first year, but three years in, if someone wants to cheat, that's enough time to undermine the test. FCPS can't be held accountable for that. They can't spend millions annually to come up with unique tests. They had that issue with AAP too. I think getting rid of the tests is the only solution, unfortunately.

At our middle school presentation, the TJ admissions officer specially said that they do not encourage prep and that it won’t help. We took her at her word and didn’t prep. Then they turn around and admit 28% from ONE prep company!